re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512108]What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.

The first turnover did not help, for sure. But to think that any other defense in the division would play that poorly in Cincinnati is insanity.[/quote]
I don't even have to make an argument; we are the worst offense and the worst coached offense in the division. It seems as though you're giving Zorn and the offense a free pass and putting way to much blame on Blache and the defense. You don't think Zorn is being totally outcoached by defensive coordinators in our division?

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=RMSkins;512161]I don't even have to make an argument; we are the worst offense and the worst coached offense in the division. It seems as though you're giving Zorn and the offense a free pass and putting way to much blame on Blache and the defense. You don't think Zorn is being totally outcoached by defensive coordinators in our division?[/quote]I think Zorn's natural tendencies are putting too much responsibility on personnel we don't have to run his crap. Like Devin Thomas, doing anything. But, I think our offensive line, for all the crap it takes, is better than Dallas' and Philly's in pass pro. And I think our QB is having a better year than Philly's. And I know our running back is having a better year than either Dallas or Philly's. So I mean, you put it that way, and maybe we're not the worst.

All things considered though, I think we are the worst offense. I'm just saying, it's very clear cut that we have the worst defense in the defensive-minded East. We probably have the worst offense as well, but at least I can argue that other teams are facing the same offensive issues we are.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512155]Give me a break. The defense still holds the point total down and gives our offense the ball back. That's the bottom line. You can spin it anyway you want to. Dallas has better players on their defense than we do. Do we have anyone that can dominate like Ware or Ratliff? No. Simply put, when Dallas' front 7 decides to play to their potential they're pretty damn good. And the Giants wr's just beat our CB's. Hixon just beat our guys. Manning made some perfect throws. Why do you blame that on scheme? You simply refuse to give credit to the Giants for having better players.[/quote]No, the bottom line is this: we have one of the top four man secondaries in the NFL, and we play mediocre pass defense. I'm happy they don't give up a lot of points, but they play a lot of weaker offenses, and for most of the year, the offense controlled the time of possession. So yeah, there's that.

I'm not arguing that we do not have a competant defense, like you seem to think I am. I'm arguing that Blache generally doesn't get it, and has cost us dearly this season.

Earlier in the year, I was high on him, but you can't treat Dallas and New York like Cleveland and Detroit. He has.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512179]No, the bottom line is this: we have one of the top four man secondaries in the NFL, and we play mediocre pass defense. I'm happy they don't give up a lot of points, but they play a lot of weaker offenses, and for most of the year, the offense controlled the time of possession. So yeah, there's that.

I'm not arguing that we do not have a competant defense, like you seem to think I am. I'm arguing that Blache generally doesn't get it, and has cost us dearly this season.

Earlier in the year, I was high on him, but you can't treat Dallas and New York like Cleveland and Detroit. He has.[/quote]

If you put the Giants front four with our secondary the pass defense would improve. The excuse that we play weak offenses is not valid. The defense held down New Orleans, Arizona, Dallas, Philly, The Giants....need I go on? Blache seems to make very good halftime adjustments. Meaning if something works in the first half it doesn't work in the 2nd half. That's a sign of good coaching. Somethimes guys are just getting beat. The coach can only put the guy in position to make the play. Yesterday Smoot was in positon to make a crucial stop on 3rd down, he was in position to make the tackle and didn't and it kept their drive alive. You blame the coach for that?? I don't.

Bottom line is the reason we're in the position we're in is because of an offense that can not score points, can't get first downs, can't sustain drives and keeps sending the defense back on the field. You can nit pick about the defense all you want.... no excuse for not getting a 1st down until the 2q against Cinn. Right now we might have the worst offense in the NFL.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

1989 Dallas Cowboys went 1-15 beating yours only yours truly the Redskins of corse. By 2003 they where in the Superbowl. It takes time. But they kept the same team and organization for the most part. For those of you who don't go back that far. It's the same old Skins. And welcome to our world. For those who do go back that far. You should know better. What's the big suprise guys? Keep things the same for a while!

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=44ever;512461]1989 Dallas Cowboys went 1-15 beating yours only yours truly the Redskins of corse. By 2003 they where in the Superbowl. It takes time. But they kept the same team and organization for the most part. For those of you who don't go back that far. It's the same old Skins. And welcome to our world. For those who do go back that far. You should know better. What's the big suprise guys? Keep things the same for a while![/quote]


This is basically the same team/plan as 2004, it is Gibbs 2 if you will. Basically it is not working and needs a redo. I think it is going to take a Cowher type couch with complete control to turn this ship around. Now will Danny allow that? Yet to be seen but IMO Zorn is not the guy to do it.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=mredskins;512466]This is basically the same team/plan as 2004, it is Gibbs 2 if you will. Basically it is not working and needs a redo. I think it is going to take a Cowher type couch with complete control to turn this ship around. Now will Danny allow that? Yet to be seen but IMO Zorn is not the guy to do it.[/quote]

You know I love Gibbs but he's been away from the game for too long. Believe me when I heard Zorn was named HC I thought it was some sort of joke. I still do. Cowher would be a great coach no doubt. But all I'm saying is Jimmy Johnson was seen as a joke too. I would give Zorn at least one more year to see if he can improve the Skins. It's not like Cowher is bringing us to the SuperBowl in 1 season. Either way next year will be a transition. I may be wrong. Who knows maybe Zorn was the only one that wanted the job :)

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=44ever;512475]You know I love Gibbs but he's been away from the game for too long. Believe me when I heard Zorn was named HC I thought it was some sort of joke. I still do. Cowher would be a great coach no doubt. But all I'm saying is Jimmy Johnson was seen as a joke too. I would give Zorn at least one more year to see if he can improve the Skins. It's not like Cowher is bringing us to the SuperBowl in 1 season. Either way next year will be a transition. I may be wrong. Who knows maybe Zorn was the only one that wanted the job :)[/quote]

JJ wasn't seen as a joke. College HC w/ a NC.

Can anyone tell me why we ran the ball w/ 2:10 left in the game down by 10, ball on the 10 yard line, approx? Then ran the screen after that. Bad stuff man.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=redsk1;512477]JJ wasn't seen as a joke. College HC w/ a NC.

Can anyone tell me why we ran the ball w/ 2:10 left in the game down by 10, ball on the 10 yard line, approx? Then ran the screen after that. Bad stuff man.[/quote]

at 1-15 he was. Spurrier was a great college coach as well. I'm talking Pro's not college. I grew up in a family of Dallas Cowboy fans so I watched them often and had to hear the inside scoop. And he was not liked in 1989. We ran the ball with 2 minutes left because that's what we have been doing for the last 10 years. Why do we treat the last 2 min in the first half like it doesn't matter? Or loss to the worst teams? These things are nothing new. If your implying as much. I'm not arguing we suck. We do. I was only trying to learn from history. Who are we getting after Cowher? When do you start to catch on to what's been going on? Just as frustrated as you are. Maybe more.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=redsk1;512477]JJ wasn't seen as a joke. College HC w/ a NC.

[B]Can anyone tell me why we ran the ball w/ 2:10 left in the game down by 10, ball on the 10 yard line, approx? Then ran the screen after that. Bad stuff man.[/B][/quote]

Yeah, that's a great point. A microcosm of the second half of our season. Early in the season when the line was healthy and playing well, we could dictate games with our running game. That's not the case anymore and hasn't been for at least a month (with Seattle being the lone exception).

On the road, trailing late in the game with the playoffs on the line, you've got to attack. I really hope Zorn's inability to adjust is nothing more than a symptom of being a rookie HC with too many responsibilities on his plate. I believe in his system, but I think he needs to let someone else call the plays.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

After the little tiff between CP and Zorn last week, you can totally tell Redskins PR got to both of them as far as post-game candor.

Zorn, who typically talks openly about lack of execution and hasn't taken too much blame thus far (until after this game):

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/jim_zorn_taking_full_blame.html#more"]Zorn: 'I've Got to Look at Myself' - Redskins Insider[/URL]

And Portis, who is attention-hungry and rarely admits fault, but will certainly dish it out:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/14/AR2008121402270.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]

Funny how Portis is literally quoting Zorn in prior weeks, blaming the game on players' lack of execution.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I'm a little surprised that this is close to 50-50. I would have figured there would be a mutiny by now.

I appear to have taken my faith out of humanity too soon once again.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GMScud;512501]After the little tiff between CP and Zorn last week, you can totally tell Redskins PR got to both of them as far as post-game candor.

Zorn, who typically talks openly about lack of execution and hasn't too much blame thus far:

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/jim_zorn_taking_full_blame.html#more"]Zorn: 'I've Got to Look at Myself' - Redskins Insider[/URL]

And Portis, who is attention-hungry and rarely admits fault, but will certainly dish it out:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/14/AR2008121402270.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]

Funny how Portis is literally quoting Zorn in prior weeks, blaming the game on players' lack of execution.[/quote]Well, Portis is smart enough to know he was out of line and that the problems with the team run a lot deeper than Zorn.

Zorn's smart enough to know he can use this loss to rectify his prior mistakes.

I don't know how long Portis will remain effective, but I know that Portis and Zorn can co-exist as long as they both are around.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Mr.Redskin;509907]Zorn, should go down or ought to go down as the first HC ever to be an interim first year HC before the season started. His responsibilities going into this year were too over whelming and way above his pay grade and initial application.

I would hope we could either down grade him as Offensive Coordinator, but at the same time I preach continuity and being able to solidify our leadership and not this carousel of direction we are supposed to be heading.

It seems Cowher would never be interested in us. Where are we gonna find a guy worthy of us and better yet would want to keep Zorn as Off Coord.???

In Baltimore, they have Cameron for Off. and Ryan for Def. their HC Harboraugh is simply just a lifeguard watching over the 2 sides not really even messing with them. He simply is the front man who does interviews to the media and is supervisor for his staff.

Zorn posseses great character but I haven't seen the players seem to be declining their approval of him by the week. I wish Snyder/Cerrato could evaluate the talent/ team we have and be able to bring coaches/players in that work around them rather than entities that falsely build hype which fuels his product being merchandised.

I like how all of our problems are reflections of poor Mgt. but all they do is temporarily disguise it or temporarily sweep it under the rug. History seems to repeat it self again in DC.[/quote]

Downgrade Zorn to Offensive Coordinator? You're kidding, right? Isn't he calling the offensive plays now? How does THAT seem to be working out so far (Crumbling offensive line nothwithstanding)?

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

"if" Zorn is replaced he should at least remain as QB coach. It would provide continuity. That is if JC stays. Otherwise it makes no sense to keep him at all.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

Has there ever been a head coach that lost his job and stayed on at a lower position? Just wondering if that's even a reality. I'm guessing no.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=redsk1;512477]JJ wasn't seen as a joke. College HC w/ a NC.

[B]Can anyone tell me why we ran the ball w/ 2:10 left in the game down by 10, ball on the 10 yard line, approx? Then ran the screen after that.[/B] Bad stuff man.[/quote]

You know that was my first reaction too, and said so while watching, but as I said it, I realized it actually was a great call. Everyone knew we needed two scores, no timeouts, every defender had to be thinking pass. But we did have the two minute warning, so we had one shot at pulling a draw or run to break it. He took the shot, used the two minute warning, and it didn't work. Like most of our plays in the second half of the season.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Joe Kidd;512642]Has there ever been a head coach that lost his job and stayed on at a lower position? Just wondering if that's even a reality. I'm guessing no.[/quote]

We are talking about the Redskins! Where reality doesn't seem to exist! ????

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Joe Kidd;512642]Has there ever been a head coach that lost his job and stayed on at a lower position? Just wondering if that's even a reality. I'm guessing no.[/quote]

Gunther Cunningham came back to the Chiefs a few years after being let go as head coach

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Joe Kidd;512642]Has there ever been a head coach that lost his job and stayed on at a lower position? Just wondering if that's even a reality. I'm guessing no.[/quote]

Dave Campo is closest to fulfilling that criteria but he came back a few years after he was let go.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I apologize if stated prior. I voted yes, although I think he should be given another year. I said yes cause I think after our loss he showed he could beat the big dogs in their house even though it was by minimal points. The problem I have is the fact he has not shown he can adapt during the game or during the season. Simply put halfway through the game he makes no big adjustments to change a game. He has not made any big adjustments the his offensive scheme during the last 6 games in order to ensure a win. He simply believes it's all the players and their execution and not the fact that other teams now have game film to plan around what he's doing.
I think these last two games will say alot as to if he can make the adjustments or not and if not then apparently he can not put his plan from paper to field. There is no sign the team has improved in any area of the team. Which should be something we are seeing at this point. In atleast one area. Nothing. All going down hill.
If, and I say If we were to change coach's again I would have to say it's all about timing. We can bring in whoever ....Cowher and if he does not have the assistants he likes or needs then he is settling with second rate coach's and no improvement. Thought should be put into who a new coach could or would bring in prior to just blowing the team up again as well as who a new defensive coach would be good. The whole keep half the staff would have to be out the window.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=ElkridgeSkins;512054]If Zorn gets canned, it wouldn't surprise me. It would dissapoint me, I think the real problem is Cerrato (with Snyder talking in his ear). He just doesn't seem to be able to address a need the last few years. I love some of the picks, like Landry and Horton, but the lines haven't been addressed in the top of the draft in recent years. He hasn't drafted wisely in my opinion. The O & D lines just can't man up with the better lines in the league.[/quote]


The way ESPN was talking last night the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=SBXVII;512823]I apologize if stated prior. I voted yes, although I think he should be given another year. I said yes cause I think after our loss he showed he could beat the big dogs in their house even though it was by minimal points. The problem I have is the fact he has not shown he can adapt during the game or during the season. Simply put halfway through the game he makes no big adjustments to change a game. He has not made any big adjustments the his offensive scheme during the last 6 games in order to ensure a win. He simply believes it's all the players and their execution and not the fact that other teams now have game film to plan around what he's doing.
I think these last two games will say alot as to if he can make the adjustments or not and if not then apparently he can not put his plan from paper to field. There is no sign the team has improved in any area of the team. Which should be something we are seeing at this point. In atleast one area. Nothing. All going down hill.
If, and I say If we were to change coach's again I would have to say it's all about timing. We can bring in whoever ....Cowher and if he does not have the assistants he likes or needs then he is settling with second rate coach's and no improvement. Thought should be put into who a new coach could or would bring in prior to just blowing the team up again as well as who a new defensive coach would be good. The whole keep half the staff would have to be out the window.[/quote]


I think the only way Zorn saves his job is going 2-0 and the team somehow looks much improved. That being said, I think I have a better chance scoring with a Playboy Playmate than that happening, especially how Philly is playing like a team possessed.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;512832]I think the only way Zorn saves his job is going 2-0 and the team somehow looks much improved. That being said, I think I have a better chance scoring with a Playboy Playmate than that happening, especially how Philly is playing like a team possessed.[/quote]

LOL. hey, could you fill me in on the fine details? LOL. Just kidding but your right.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;512830][B]The way ESPN was talking last night[/B] the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.[/quote]

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;512894]Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..[/quote]

I think Snyder would like to keep him around. I know people think he gets a kick out of the Redskins being front page news in the off-season but in reality he'd rather just that the team win. But anyway, it's not too big a secret that there have been lots of problems in the locker room over the past month and I hear that it's getting worse. I think that everyone needs to realize that frustrations are mounting because of the losses, and the fact that the Redskins look completely non-competitive. And I would really like to see Zorn given a chance to play the guys he wants and be surrounded by the coaches he wants and fight through this. However, what Snyder doesn't want is a rehash of Spurrier where things got worse in year two and then Spurrier bolted. I don't think it's quite the same though, because I haven't heard anyone say Zorn doesn't really care (the way Spurrier didn't really seem to care).

Of course, I'm not really around the team these days but I was there for the last couple of years of Turner, the Schottenheimer days, and the Spurrier era. Turner-nice enough guy but extremely stubborn and insistent that his ways would work if only the players weren't so incompetent; Schottenheimer-earned the team's respect by respecting them and having a track record; Spurrier-would have rather been anywhere else, didn't put any effort at all into the job. I hear Zorn has Norv-like tendencies.

I think it would be a mistake to switch coaches after this season, even if Zorn resigned I would reject the resignation. The hiring itself was a head scratcher but they made their beds and should lie in them, in my opinion. I understand the fear of a complete mutiny and total failure next season. But, in my opinion, the team is not going to get significantly better until it lets go of this fear of abject failure. If it fails, it fails but I think that's better than constant change.

Anyhow, long story short. Zorn-lacking authority in the locker room, not improving, needs to show some mettle over the next couple of weeks.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;512906]I think Snyder would like to keep him around. I know people think he gets a kick out of the Redskins being front page news in the off-season but in reality he'd rather just that the team win. But anyway, it's not too big a secret that there have been lots of problems in the locker room over the past month and I hear that it's getting worse. I think that everyone needs to realize that frustrations are mounting because of the losses, and the fact that the Redskins look completely non-competitive. And I would really like to see Zorn given a chance to play the guys he wants and be surrounded by the coaches he wants and fight through this. However, what Snyder doesn't want is a rehash of Spurrier where things got worse in year two and then Spurrier bolted. I don't think it's quite the same though, because I haven't heard anyone say Zorn doesn't really care (the way Spurrier didn't really seem to care).

Of course, I'm not really around the team these days but I was there for the last couple of years of Turner, the Schottenheimer days, and the Spurrier era. Turner-nice enough guy but extremely stubborn and insistent that his ways would work if only the players weren't so incompetent; Schottenheimer-earned the team's respect by respecting them and having a track record; Spurrier-would have rather been anywhere else, didn't put any effort at all into the job. I hear Zorn has Norv-like tendencies.

I think it would be a mistake to switch coaches after this season, even if Zorn resigned I would reject the resignation. The hiring itself was a head scratcher but they made their beds and should lie in them, in my opinion. I understand the fear of a complete mutiny and total failure next season. But, in my opinion, the team is not going to get significantly better until it lets go of this fear of abject failure. If it fails, it fails but I think that's better than constant change.

Anyhow, long story short. Zorn-lacking authority in the locker room, not improving, needs to show some mettle over the next couple of weeks.[/quote]

Any inside information or hints whether Zorn is really committed to staying? Have there been feelers in regard to positions back in Seattle, etc?

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=The Goat;512909]Any inside information or hints whether Zorn is really committed to staying? Have there been feelers in regard to positions back in Seattle, etc?[/quote]

I don't know anything about him going back to Seattle. I think he'd like to stay here as head coach. I think he just has to work through some obstacles.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I like Zorn. I like the way he comes across. I like the idea of a young coach who will hopefully make his mark and be here for a long time. My issues now are he is not adapting to the game. He is a salesman telling us the vacuum cleaner works. It's got to be the rug, or the way your moving the vacuum back and forth but the vacuum works. Thats all good but maybe its that the vacuum needs to be set at a higher level for thicker carpet. I know a terrible example but he has shown no ability to fix what needs to be fixed. He keeps saying it execution. Ok, maybe it is. but if the guys we have can't execute the plays you want played then you either get someone who can or scrap the play and move on. You don't keep forcing the players to try and execute something that is not working.

I don't like the fact he can't seem to make adjustments at half time. Team comes out flat and not motivated. Doing the same crap they did in the first half but expecting different results.

He reminds me of someone who is book smart. Can explain the system clearly. Smiles a lot. Always chipper. Then when its time to physically put theory to work acts confused as to why it's not working. The books don't tell you everything. Sometimes it's nice to have a little hands on to be able to know how to fix the problem. I think I'm refering to experience....which Zorn will not get if not given a chance or more time but I go back to the whole not being able to make adjustments at half time or from game to game. There is talent on this team. why in the last 8 games we look like we don't is beyond me. If its all about blocking for JC then they screwed up something, they changed something and again it's Zorn's inability to adjust and fix what changed from Gibbs to Zorn to halfway through the season.

I think he's not what Snyder expected and due to this Zorn is out this year and someone else...is in. Maybe it's a WCO guy. maybe its someone who is more a defensive coach. Maybe Snyder says the dreaded words he has tried to avoid......"Lets rebuild." cause what we have been doing year in and year out has not worked. Time to change the whole system.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

has the option of mike holmgren could possibly be on the redskins staff next year maybe a gm or hc been talked about?

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

found it shouldve looked first

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=47FAN;513077]has the option of mike holmgren could possibly be on the redskins staff next year maybe a gm or hc been talked about?[/quote]

ESPN seems certain Cowher is coming next year, as I guess he has some ties with the organization. If that does indeed come true, I doubt Holmgren would be a welcome addition. Besides I think Holmgren wants to actually retire from football period.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=SBXVII;513076]I like Zorn. I like the way he comes across. I like the idea of a young coach who will hopefully make his mark and be here for a long time. My issues now are he is not adapting to the game. He is a salesman telling us the vacuum cleaner works. It's got to be the rug, or the way your moving the vacuum back and forth but the vacuum works. Thats all good but maybe its that the vacuum needs to be set at a higher level for thicker carpet. I know a terrible example but he has shown no ability to fix what needs to be fixed. He keeps saying it execution. Ok, maybe it is. but if the guys we have can't execute the plays you want played then you either get someone who can or scrap the play and move on. You don't keep forcing the players to try and execute something that is not working.

I don't like the fact he can't seem to make adjustments at half time. Team comes out flat and not motivated. Doing the same crap they did in the first half but expecting different results.

He reminds me of someone who is book smart. Can explain the system clearly. Smiles a lot. Always chipper. Then when its time to physically put theory to work acts confused as to why it's not working. The books don't tell you everything. Sometimes it's nice to have a little hands on to be able to know how to fix the problem. I think I'm refering to experience....which Zorn will not get if not given a chance or more time but I go back to the whole not being able to make adjustments at half time or from game to game. There is talent on this team. why in the last 8 games we look like we don't is beyond me. If its all about blocking for JC then they screwed up something, they changed something and again it's Zorn's inability to adjust and fix what changed from Gibbs to Zorn to halfway through the season.

I think he's not what Snyder expected and due to this Zorn is out this year and someone else...is in. Maybe it's a WCO guy. maybe its someone who is more a defensive coach. Maybe Snyder says the dreaded words he has tried to avoid......"Lets rebuild." cause what we have been doing year in and year out has not worked. Time to change the whole system.[/quote]
I think Snyder wanted Cowher last year, but Cowher wanted at least one more year off to relax before getting into the mix, so he settled with Zorn, who has not panned out the way he thought he would. The WCO is rather dated and has been figured out since it was the standard NFL offense for the better part of 20 years.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;512894]Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..[/quote]


Thing is Dynamite, who says they have a great relationsip? The Skins PR guys? Those guys are paid liars. Plus, what does it matter if they did get along? Zorn has fallen flat on his face, he has lost the team for the most part, and his system is a dud. Dan might have no other choice than to can him. Also we have to face another dreaded detail. We do indeed have to rebuild. Our line is shot, we have underperforming individuals, and an average QB. Not to mention the as always non existent pass rush.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

Personally I think we should have hired Mooch. In looking back he was my favorite out of the endless pool of candidates during our incompetent coaching search. Mooch also had the experience, motivation, and personality to succeed here in Washington. Never would he have flat out blamed players publicly for not executing and never would he have had a "You ok?" moment.

I know I'm going through a lot of names these days but I would welcome Mooch to this team with open arms. Either way I'm going to support the Falcons and Ravens for the remainder of the season, and as much as I would love to say "I don't support the Redskins anymore" well quite frankly I don't think I have the heart to pull off such a feat.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;513134]Personally I think we should have hired Mooch. In looking back he was my favorite out of the endless pool of candidates during our incompetent coaching search. Mooch also had the experience, motivation, and personality to succeed here in Washington. Never would he have flat out blamed players publicly for not executing and never would he have had a "You ok?" moment.

I know I'm going through a lot of names these days but I would welcome Mooch to this team with open arms. Either way I'm going to support the Falcons and Ravens for the remainder of the season, and as much as I would love to say "I don't support the Redskins anymore" well quite frankly I don't think I have the heart to pull off such a feat.[/quote]

Mooch? Shoot, might as well try to get Gibbs back. Mooch is washed up man. His stint here in Detroit did him in for good I think. No more guys from the West Coast!!!!

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;513135]Mooch? Shoot, might as well try to get Gibbs back. Mooch is washed up man. His stint here in Detroit did him in for good I think. No more guys from the West Coast!!!![/quote]

Everyone screws up in Detroit. I mean what can you expect they had their own version of Vinny Cerrato (in fact a worst version), no QB, no RB, no defense. It's a wonder Mooch lasted as look as he did.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=44ever;512475]You know I love Gibbs but he's been away from the game for too long. Believe me when I heard Zorn was named HC I thought it was some sort of joke. I still do. Cowher would be a great coach no doubt. But all I'm saying is Jimmy Johnson was seen as a joke too. I would give Zorn at least one more year to see if he can improve the Skins. It's not like Cowher is bringing us to the SuperBowl in 1 season. Either way next year will be a transition. I may be wrong. Who knows maybe Zorn was the only one that wanted the job :)[/quote]


I would agree with you( having Zorn stay) if there wasn't such a collapse as we have witnessed. Zorn can only clean so much house in the offseason to try and right the ship for '09. His system is the main problem, along with non performance issues. IF Zorn came up with a whole new system and could sell the team on it for '09 I could go for him staying, but I don't think that is going to happen.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;513137]Everyone screws up in Detroit. I mean what can you expect they had their own version of Vinny Cerrato (in fact a worst version), no QB, no RB, no defense. It's a wonder Mooch lasted as look as he did.[/quote]


Detroit is the graveyard of coaches til the Fords sell out!!!!!

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

Should this be true, it will ruin all the steps we've made towards progress. We cannot cut loose Zorn after only a year. I don't really believe that it is his fault our offense has been day and night between the first and second half of the season. I still point the blame towards the Monday night game vs Pittsburgh, where we had no effective offense and Campbell lost some confidence.