Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Mattyk72;542663]Yeah I agree. I don't see this being a long term issue at all. JC seems well equiped to handle this and he's shown nothing but class through all of it. I anticipate he will come to Redskins Park and work his butt off to get ready for this season, if anything this will motivate him even more.[/quote]

Agreed, even when Campbell's name was involved in trade talks and everyone called us the front runners, Campbell was at Redskins park working out. I know that interviews and character doesn't win games alone, but he couldn't have handled this situation any better, at least publicly.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Mattyk72;542726]I guess McDaniels also thinks Orton is better than Cutler using that logic.

I think it's just a matter of him thinking Orton is a better fit for his offense.[/quote]

ortons a horrible qb - he's not good for any system. if the excuse for campbell that he has had a bad offensive line is legit -no way anyone takes orton over campbell. ortons sucked it up behind a dominant line for years.

even if you hold to that argument, then how do you respond to the fact that no one thought campbell was worth a 2nd rounder?

campbells not that good. even his team mates in trying to defend him admitted that by saying the constant system changes were 'keeping him from being good.'

what's it going to take for people to realize campbell is not that good of a qb?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542732]ortons a horrible qb - he's not good for any system. if the excuse for campbell that he has had a bad offensive line is legit -no way anyone takes orton over campbell. ortons sucked it up behind a dominant line for years.

even if you hold to that argument, then how do you respond to the fact that no one thought campbell was worth a 2nd rounder?

campbells not that good. even his team mates in trying to defend him admitted that by saying the constant system changes were 'keeping him from being good.'

what's it going to take for people to realize campbell is not that good of a qb?[/quote]

Ok so why did McDaniels want Orton then??

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542732]ortons a horrible qb - he's not good for any system. if the excuse for campbell that he has had a bad offensive line is legit -no way anyone takes orton over campbell. ortons sucked it up behind a dominant line for years.

even if you hold to that argument, then how do you respond to the fact that no one thought campbell was worth a 2nd rounder?

campbells not that good. even his team mates in trying to defend him admitted that by saying the constant system changes were 'keeping him from being good.'

what's it going to take for people to realize campbell is not that good of a qb?[/quote]

He had a decent year last year.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I've only heard of one team being contacted about trading JC for a 2nd round pick. And that hasn't even been validated as far as I know. Where's all this [B]shopping around [/B]talk coming from?
Help me out here BHA. One official from another team said he got a call. Where did you see he was shopped around to the whole league?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=firstdown;542482]He has been treated unfairly how? His record is worse then MB and everyone is saying he was treated unfairly. Has he even had a winning season? I like the guy but I'm not against moving on.[/quote]

Whether it was intentional or not, his situation with the redskins wasn't the most conducive for a quarterback to flourish. There was a lack of consistency within the organization, most notably the number of offenses that he has had to learn. And now, the lack of confidence shown through the redskins' efforts in trying to trade Campbell and/or trying to trade for Cutler.

But no, I agree with you with (liking him and) not against moving on (without him). Everyone has their share of adversity (if that's how he sees it) - but it's about getting through it and getting better because of it. It's like the old saying... what doesn't kill you makes you stronger - but you have to be willing to face it and go through it. I think it's time that Campbell faces all of this and shows everybody he is strong enough to battle through all of this stuff and show us that he's a champion. Isn't that what champions are measured with - how much adversity they have overcome?

And compared to others, Campbell's situation isn't that bad. That's why Cutler is seen as a crybaby, because there are millions of people out there that would trade their best day for their worst day in football to be be able to be given their situations and chances in life. The one thing that I like about Cutler though is - he has fire. Something at this point that Campbell lacks and needs to find.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Mattyk72;542733]Ok so why did McDaniels want Orton then??[/quote]

because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]

I'm still not understanding your logic but I'll just leave it at that.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, [B]more teachable [/B]QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]

:laughing2 I find your posts interesting yet funny at times BHA. How many offenses has Campbell learned in the last 7-8 years? What makes Horton more teachable?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]
McDaniels is saying the right things on Orton now, but Orton may be a stop-gap depending on what the Broncos do on draft day. That being said, Orton comes from Joe Tiller's spread at Purdue and did very well in it. The Purdue offense is similar to what McDaniels will be putting in at Denver.

Your assessment of Campbell couldn't be more wrong IMO, but you and I have beat that horse to death. I don't think we learned the "Redskins" don't want Campbell. At the end of yesterday the Skins didn't make the trade for whatever reason. Zorn publicly and behind the scenes supported Campbell. Hard to say where VC and Snyder stood on this and who was pushing for what. We'll never know the truth on that.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

we don't know exactly who of snyder, cerrato, and zorn truly wanted to get rid of campbell, but the fact is atleast one of them did.

we also know that we were unsuccessful in convincing any teams that campbell, a 4 year veteran hand picked by one of the greatest coaches of all time, who has supposedly improved every year, was worth a measly 2nd rounder.

if no one in the league thinks campbell is worth a 2nd rounder, how is it some of you think he's franchise QB material? how is it you are a better judge of campbell than people who do this for a living? what do you see that theyre missing? and if campbell were traded, what compensation would be adequate? what is he "worth" in your opinion?

(please forgive me for not responding to anyone individually - I typically have to post on my phone nowadays - Dang IT people monitoring internet use at work! Haha)

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

A "measly" 2nd rounder? Nice way to spin it.

We really don't know what team we offered JC to for that 2nd rounder (reports say it was 1 team that didn't take the bait), so why are you assuming the entire league passed him up?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Where did you see he was shopped around to the whole league? I've heard of one official from another team say he was contacted. That's it.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

It would be interesting to know what we offered Denver.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542760] how is it you are a better judge of campbell than people who do this for a living?
[/quote]

I think because the people that do this for a living have made a [U][B]LOT[/B][/U] of mistakes in judgment. As evidence, you take all of the expected saviors turned busts, organizations like the Lions, and even the last failed trade attempt by the redskins.

The problem is, like any other business - they don't judge by performance, they judge mostly based on hype and measured qualifications. And that goes for picking the employees that work within the front office also.

The true eye-for-talent looks beyond all of this.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Mattyk72;542664]Every team has different situations. I think the Skins were really the only team in the running that already had a young QB that was perceived as being the long term answer by most experts. And up until a few days ago, Cutler wasn't officially on the market. So at the time the Skins technically weren't pursuing Cutler so why would they say anything different?[/quote]

Good point. Although I think we were interested in Cutler as soon as the rift occurred between him and McDaniels. Our name was right up there on the rumor list before he ever officially hit the market.

Also, Snyder was at Sanchez's private workout, which was before Cutler hit the market. That makes me think it was a bit more than due diligence, and that we had ideas about a QB change for a while.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

i would guess we tried
1) JC, this years 1st and next years 2nd
2) or JC, this years 1st and next years 1st; broncos wanted more than 2 1st rounders, we wouldnt accomodate but the bears did with 2 1st rounders and a 3rd?

im just happy we got outbid, seems the broncos really know how to leverage deals against other interested teams.

go skins!!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I have a feeling our best offer would have been Jason Campbell and two firsts and hopefully we didn't even go that far because it would have been a horrendous mistake!

Either way Dan Snyder has officially gone from decent owner because he spends so much money on the team to complete moron status IMO.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Now watch Jason put up Pro Bowl numbers and I hope he sticks it to Danny and company with contract negotiations. Danny and Vinny act recklessly often like a child with a new toy.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]The way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]

3. The Redskins aren't thrilled with Colt Brennan, either.

By "The Redskins" I, of course, mean Dan Snyder. No other opinion counts.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Good stuff from JC in today's Wash Post:

[I]"With all this stuff going on, I just kept thinking about the things we can do as an offense, the things we can do as a team, and that's what I stayed focused on. I'm never going to let what other people do stop me from trying to be the best I can be for my coaches and my teammates." [/I] [I]While Campbell conducted himself professionally as the Redskins shopped him, and took the high road again yesterday, he is a proud person and his calm demeanor should not be mistaken as a sign of weakness, a source close to Campbell said.
[/I]

[I]"In a lot of ways, you have a lot of feelings about this, but there's also a lot of stuff you just keep on the inside," Campbell said. "You just go out there with a little bit more passion, a little bit more of a chip on your shoulder. Out of all of this, something good has got to come out of it.
[/I]

[I]"Maybe it's just that you stay positive, you keep working hard for the people that matter to you and you keep trying to be the best you can be. I really believe that everything I've gone through only prepares me to be a stronger person and a stronger quarterback. But this also shows you a lot. It shows you your true value to some people."
[/I]


Here's my paraphrase: "Basically my teammates and coaches are who matter to me, and that's who I'm playing for. I see now what Danny and Vinny think of me, and that will just make me play harder. I've got some things I'd like to say about the Front Office, but I'll keep it to myself."

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

agree with you GM, after hearing all these radio experts making a big deal out of cutler being too sensitive i still havent heard one person make a comparison to how campbell has handled the situation like a professional and i think the speculation of him getting traded was far more extensive . . . wheres the praise for campbell handling this like a professional should outside of washington?

go skins!!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I've heard the one team report and I also read teams plural yesterday. im on my phone so I can't do tons of web searching. in any case, we know the skins wanted cutler bad - do you really think they only called one team?
as far as saying a "measly" 2nd rounder - a 2nd rounder is NOTHING for a franchise QB and its not much for a starting QB - that's all I meant.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=over the mountain;542790]agree with you GM, after hearing all these radio experts making a big deal out of cutler being too sensitive i still havent heard one person make a comparison to how campbell has handled the situation like a professional and i think the speculation of him getting traded was far more extensive . . . wheres the praise for campbell handling this like a professional should outside of washington?

go skins!![/quote]

Mike and Mike gave JC alot of praise this moring on how he handled it like a professional. So did Colin Cowherd.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]


Bears had more offer Broncos than the skins did. Also Orton really isn't in the Broncos plans to be QB its Sanchez.

Some fans say he holds the ball to long and has a slow release. Please explain. I don't see his release being slower than most of the starting QBs in the NFL.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GMScud;542787]Good stuff from JC in today's Wash Post:

[I]"With all this stuff going on, I just kept thinking about the things we can do as an offense, the things we can do as a team, and that's what I stayed focused on. I'm never going to let what other people do stop me from trying to be the best I can be for my coaches and my teammates." [/I] [I]While Campbell conducted himself professionally as the Redskins shopped him, and took the high road again yesterday, he is a proud person and his calm demeanor should not be mistaken as a sign of weakness, a source close to Campbell said.
[/I]

[I]"In a lot of ways, you have a lot of feelings about this, but there's also a lot of stuff you just keep on the inside," Campbell said. "You just go out there with a little bit more passion, a little bit more of a chip on your shoulder. Out of all of this, something good has got to come out of it.
[/I]

[I]"Maybe it's just that you stay positive, you keep working hard for the people that matter to you and you keep trying to be the best you can be. I really believe that everything I've gone through only prepares me to be a stronger person and a stronger quarterback. But this also shows you a lot. It shows you your true value to some people."
[/I]


[B]Here's my paraphrase: "Basically my teammates and coaches are who matter to me, and that's who I'm playing for. I see now what Danny and Vinny think of me, and that will just make me play harder. I've got some things I'd like to say about the Front Office, but I'll keep it to myself[/B]."[/quote]

I think you nailed it GMScud.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=53Fan;542741]I've only heard of one team being contacted about trading JC for a 2nd round pick. And that hasn't even been validated as far as I know. Where's all this [B]shopping around [/B]talk coming from?
Help me out here BHA. One official from another team said he got a call. Where did you see he was shopped around to the whole league?[/quote]

Maybe he wasn't shopped but the news of that surely shows that he might be on the block and if someone wanted him, they might've started inquiring.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=over the mountain;542790]agree with you GM, after hearing all these radio experts making a big deal out of cutler being too sensitive i still havent heard one person make a comparison to how campbell has handled the situation like a professional and i think the speculation of him getting traded was far more extensive . . . wheres the praise for campbell handling this like a professional should outside of washington?

go skins!![/quote]

it's been on ESPN since yesterday, many of the commentators were saying cutler should see how campbell handled it.. others praising his demeanor, etc

are you watching anything outside of washington? haha

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=tryfuhl;542811]Maybe he wasn't shopped but the news of that surely shows that he might be on the block and if someone wanted him, they might've started inquiring.[/quote]

Good point. I never considered until now that JC could still be moved maybe as part of a draft day deal. The JC saga may not be over.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

As far as I can tell, no one with the organization has officially admitted that they were chasing Cutler or that they were (or are) shopping Campbell. Now, granted most teams wouldn't publicly say that kind of thing, but I cannot help but wonder if there's a lot of supposition here and that the Redskins only explored the Cutler option, as opposed to the "chasing after it madly" copy we've heard for the last 48 hours. When a quality player comes available, most teams will at least have an internal discussion and potentially inquire to see what the asking price is -- that doesn't mean we were poised to dump JC as everyone seems to report (always from "official" but unnamed sources). I do wonder whether the whole thing has been over-blown.

Having said that, if so, then Snyder and Cerrato were foolish to let it happen as it would likely have a negative effect on the team. Also, perhaps everyone jumped at this because it seems like the kind of thing Snyder and Cerrato would do. The fact that the Post reports that Zorn is setting up a meeting with JC, Snyder, and Cerrato suggests "they got some 'splaining to do, Lucy."

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=tryfuhl;542811]Maybe he wasn't shopped but the news of that surely shows that he might be on the block and if someone wanted him,[B] they might've started inquiring[/B].[/quote]

Who knows? Maybe they did. I doubt it would be in their interest to publicize it and alienate their QB too.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[COLOR=Lime][U][B][SIZE=7]Thank you, Bears!!!!![/SIZE][/B][/U][/COLOR]



Wow, they got screwed with how much they gave up for a player who may not want to play for them next year. They better stock up on baby powder and Dum-Dums.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Yea, i considered starting a "is JC going to still be traded" thread. It's worthy of discussion b/c it's fairly evident that the decision makers (Vin and Dan) don't think too highly of Mr. Campbell. They may feel that this bridge is burned. If JC doesn't have a good year, he's gone. If he does have a good year, he may not want to come back.

So, that begs the question would they take a 2nd rounder for JC and let TC's play QB this year. It's not so crazy enough not to ask. For this franchise nothing is beyond discussion.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744][B]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell. [/B]

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]

You can officially be declared insane.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Buster;542826][COLOR=Lime][U][B][SIZE=7]Thank you, Bears!!!!![/SIZE][/B][/U][/COLOR]



Wow, they got screwed with how much they gave up for a player who may not want to play for them next year. [B]They better stock up on baby powder and Dum-Dums[/B].[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542744]because orton, as horrible as he is, is really a better, more teachable QB than campbell.

no matter what system he's in, campbell will always stare down his receivers, be afraid to look deep, not go through his reads, have a slow release, and hold on to the ball too long. he's got a great attitude but he's not franchise QB material.

the way I see it, we learned two things yesterday:

1. The Redskins don't want Jason Campbell.
2. Neither does anyone else.[/quote]BHA, if you'll remember like two months ago, when you were offering Campbell for Chris Simms and stuff, I pointed out that no team is going to give a second round pick for a player they don't think you value. The only thing we learned yesterday is, that I was right.

Understandably, you value Campbell as equivalent to a second round pick for some team that doesn't have a quarterback. Evidence disagrees with you on that, but let's assume you are right, and Campbell truly is a mediocre player who is going to peak within the next year or so and never break into the top ten QBs. The assumption you are making is that: Every team that doesn't have a quarterback would be willing to trade a valuable 2nd round pick for the last year of Campbell's rookie contract.

But here's the thing: There isn't a team in the NFL that doesn't believe there's an NFL quality QB somewhere on the roster. The Jets think Brett Ratliff is as good as Campbell. The Lions think that Drew Stanton is as good as Campbell. The Vikings think Sage Rosenfels is as good as Campbell. The Bucs think that Luke McCown is as good as Campbell. The Broncos think Chris Simms is as good as Campbell (sorry, that was a cheap shot). The Raiders think...well, I don't know what the Raiders think.

[B]But, if you are correct on Campbell's true value BHA, every one of these teams is most likely wrong[/B], to the point where they could improve their team ten fold by trading a second round pick for Campbell. Hell, the Jets traded a third round pick for the departed soul of Brett Favre once they decided that Chad Pennington was "just average" to steal a phrase from you.

So what's the explanation here? That you are actually [U]overvaluing [/U]Campbell? Well, the stats say you are very much [U]undervaluing[/U] him, so that doesn't make sense. No, the point is this: NFL GMs behave a certain way. That means, they don't trade high draft picks for players they don't [U][I][B]believe[/B][/I][/U] make their team a lot better. Now, Campbell would obviously make a lot of teams a lot better. The Bears would have been [B]far[/B] better off trading us a second rounder for Campbell and signing him to a Garrard-type deal then they would be with Jay Cutler, given that they get to hold on to two firsts. But you have to understand why that didn't happen: the Bears view that as an inferior plan to just keeping the status quo of weak QB play.

In this case, the splash of outbidding the Skins for Cutler was just as valuable as the trade itself. Because if you look at the deal in a vaccuum, the Bears got totally ripped off. But once you consider the obscene price on Cutler, it's easy to be an excited Bear fan this morning. They beat Snyder at his game.

I'll just point out that (to reinforce my point), that NFL teams in just the past six years or so, have committed the following errors at the QB position:

- Traded a third round pick for Mark Brunell
- Traded a second round pick for AJ Feeley
- Decided that their team's QB situtation would be more stable once Daunte Culpepper was gone
- Traded a second round pick to get Culpepper instead of signing Drew Brees for free
- Signed Drew Bledsoe
- Drafted JP Losman
- Drafted JaMarcus Russell
- Drafted Alex Smith
- Drafted Vince Young
- Cut Byron Leftwich after going through an entire offseason with him as the starting QB.
- Given the largest contract in NFL history to Michael Vick
- Traded Matt Schaub becuase they didn't feel like they needed any competition for Vick
- Gave Marc Bulger a hefty contract extension
- Two, and very nearly three, different teams have dumped Kurt Warner.
- One team has signed Brian Griese, twice.
- Traded two first round picks, a third round pick, and Kyle Orton, for Jay Cutler.

And then, just the Eric Mangini edition:

- Kicked Chad Pennington to the curb in favor of Kellen Clemens
- Decided that Kellen Clemens wasn't good enough to play instead over a 38 year old Brett Favre, who needed to be traded for
- Decided that 24 year old Brady Quinn is too unproven to get all the reps as a starter, and tried to trade him for Jay Cutler.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

The above is an economic principle known as the Winner's Curse. The Bears are the unquestioned winner of the Jay Cutler sweepstakes. And because of it, it costs them a lot more wins in the long run (theoretically, assuming that they draft at an average success rate), then it would have to lose out to the Redskins on this one.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Miller101;542699]Or maybe they just think that Zorn's offense is flawed. Why build a team around a coach that runs a flawed offense? Why build a team around a coach that can't protect his quarterback from an outside blitz? Why build a team around a coach that doesn't know how to run the football with Sellers, Betts, and Portis? Maybe they realized that they just really screwed up hiring this coach in the first place? Maybe they are painstakingly giving him one more year, but they know that they're in for a long season?

I'm just saying............Maybe?[/quote]

Exactly who hired this coach and when? That was one of the points i've been making. The JZ hire was desparation, lack of a plan type of hire.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

The only teams who trade draft picks, in any form, are teams that think they are close. Which team that honestly believes they have no QB on their roster that can play honestly thinks they are close to the playoffs?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GTripp0012;542831]BHA, if you'll remember like two months ago, when you were offering Campbell for Chris Simms and stuff, I pointed out that no team is going to give a second round pick for a player they don't think you value. The only thing we learned yesterday is, that I was right.

Understandably, you value Campbell as equivalent to a second round pick for some team that doesn't have a quarterback. Evidence disagrees with you on that, but let's assume you are right, and Campbell truly is a mediocre player who is going to peak within the next year or so and never break into the top ten QBs. The assumption you are making is that: Every team that doesn't have a quarterback would be willing to trade a valuable 2nd round pick for the last year of Campbell's rookie contract.

But here's the thing: There isn't a team in the NFL that doesn't believe there's an NFL quality QB somewhere on the roster. The Jets think Brett Ratliff is as good as Campbell. The Lions think that Drew Stanton is as good as Campbell. The Vikings think Sage Rosenfels is as good as Campbell. The Bucs think that Luke McCown is as good as Campbell. The Broncos think Chris Simms is as good as Campbell (sorry, that was a cheap shot). The Raiders think...well, I don't know what the Raiders think.

[B]But, if you are correct on Campbell's true value BHA, every one of these teams is most likely wrong[/B], to the point where they could improve their team ten fold by trading a second round pick for Campbell. Hell, the Jets traded a third round pick for the departed soul of Brett Favre once they decided that Chad Pennington was "just average" to steal a phrase from you.

So what's the explanation here? That you are actually [U]overvaluing [/U]Campbell? Well, the stats say you are very much [U]undervaluing[/U] him, so that doesn't make sense. No, the point is this: NFL GMs behave a certain way. That means, they don't trade high draft picks for players they don't [U][I][B]believe[/B][/I][/U] make their team a lot better. Now, Campbell would obviously make a lot of teams a lot better. The Bears would have been [B]far[/B] better off trading us a second rounder for Campbell and signing him to a Garrard-type deal then they would be with Jay Cutler, given that they get to hold on to two firsts. But you have to understand why that didn't happen: the Bears view that as an inferior plan to just keeping the status quo of weak QB play.

In this case, the splash of outbidding the Skins for Cutler was just as valuable as the trade itself. Because if you look at the deal in a vaccuum, the Bears got totally ripped off. But once you consider the obscene price on Cutler, it's easy to be an excited Bear fan this morning. They beat Snyder at his game.

I'll just point out that (to reinforce my point), that NFL teams in just the past six years or so, have committed the following errors at the QB position:

- Traded a third round pick for Mark Brunell
- Traded a second round pick for AJ Feeley
- Decided that their team's QB situtation would be more stable once Daunte Culpepper was gone
- Traded a second round pick to get Culpepper instead of signing Drew Brees for free
- Signed Drew Bledsoe
- Drafted JP Losman
- Drafted JaMarcus Russell
- Drafted Alex Smith
- Drafted Vince Young
- Cut Byron Leftwich after going through an entire offseason with him as the starting QB.
- Given the largest contract in NFL history to Michael Vick
- Traded Matt Schaub becuase they didn't feel like they needed any competition for Vick
- Gave Marc Bulger a hefty contract extension
- Two, and very nearly three, different teams have dumped Kurt Warner.
- One team has signed Brian Griese, twice.
- Traded two first round picks, a third round pick, and Kyle Orton, for Jay Cutler.

And then, just the Eric Mangini edition:

- Kicked Chad Pennington to the curb in favor of Kellen Clemens
- Decided that Kellen Clemens wasn't good enough to play instead over a 38 year old Brett Favre, who needed to be traded for
- Decided that 24 year old Brady Quinn is too unproven to get all the reps as a starter, and tried to trade him for Jay Cutler.[/quote]

Wow. :food-smil