Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;579430]Just got caught up on all the posts.

No one can tell me that JC is going to be worse than last year, and last year we had 2 newbie receivers that couldn't get on the field and when they did made lots of mistakes. This preseason, we have seen Campbell shaking off the off-season, while the receivers named Thomas, Kelly, and Mitchell have been coming into there own with all the qbs. Once the regular season starts, and Cooley is in on most every down, and teams are worrying about Portis, you don't think we will be seeing Kelly on the slant with his hands he has demonstrated, or DT on the corner post. Pre-season is vanilla, and no one is writing record books based off these performances.

One post asked why I think JC could take us to the playoffs (of course he asked as a diversion to answering my question). It's really simple, our Oline has looked solid, starters and backups. When JC had a solid line, he was putting up MVP style numbers, pulled out a great win from NO, and led a game winning drive against the Rams, only to have the D give it back. Same with SF
Zorn has learned more, and even I hated the 3 runs to the endzone, he had to see what the line/betts could do. I doubt he will try that in the regular season.

If you watch the plays and calls the 2nd and 3rd team offenses are running, they have a much more open playbook. Which to me is Zorn's way of testing his planning for this year.

JC mainly needs to lead this team, he will never be the gamer that Colt probably is, but at the NFL level, I believe he has the best chance of leading this team deep into the playoffs out of any qb who is now an option for our team.

84.2, 13, 6, 3245

[B]I expect that all these numbers, except maybe 6, will increase. And that will bode well for our team.[/B]

And if JC doesn't. Then we bring on another guy next year, or Chase in game 12. But why spend 4 yrs working with, teaching, preparing a guy, to show him the door 3 games into his last season. That would be ridiculous.[/quote]

I don't care if the INT's increase as long as the TD's get in the mid 20's. I keep saying this but Brees threw 17 picks last year but who cares when you get 34 td's and 5,000 yards.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579502]I was watching the Balt. too and it got me even more mad at Zorn. Cameron knows what he's doing.[/quote]Cameron's good. He was the Dick Lebeau of offense last year.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579503]I don't care if the INT's increase as long as the TD's get in the mid 20's. I keep saying this but Brees threw 17 picks last year but who cares when you get 34 td's and 5,000 yards.[/quote]They'll increase, but it depends how much. We can live with 10-12, but not with 15-17.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579451]Wow, Sanchez looks awful.[/quote]

Baltimore's defense is going to make any rookie look awful. And Suggs wasn't even playing.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579506]Baltimore's defense is going to make any rookie look awful. And Suggs wasn't even playing.[/quote]Agreed.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;579471]don't worry I see Tim Tebow in our future[/quote]

I hope you're joking.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579503]I don't care if the INT's increase as long as the TD's get in the mid 20's. I keep saying this but Brees threw 17 picks last year but who cares when you get 34 td's and 5,000 yards.[/quote]


Yeah that is what I am talking about. Zorny needs to let JC let the balls fly for a change and things will get interesting ina positive way. Zorn holding the kid back is a big part of the problem, is too scared to open it up. It is like he just bought a brand new Porsche Caymen S and doesn't want to take it on the interstate to open it up to see what it can do.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579505]They'll increase, but it depends how much. We can live with 10-12, but not with 15-17.[/quote]

I don't care if he throws 15 to 17ints if he's getting the yardage and TD production. There are a lot of great QB's that probably averaged 15-17 ints a year. It's part of playing QB in the NFL.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Since nobody minds INT's I guess Colt should still be in everyones good graces. At least he was "Going for it". :)

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;579509]Yeah that is what I am talking about. Zorny needs to let JC let the balls fly for a change and things will get interesting ina positive way. Zorn holding the kid back is a big part of the problem, is too scared to open it up. It is like he just bought a brand new Porsche Caymen S and doesn't want to take it on the interstate to open it up to see what it can do.[/quote]

I think part of it is was Zorn pulling back cause of the line and part of it is JC not pulling the trigger. But still it's the coaches job to max protect and still try to take shots down field. 14 play drives don't happen a lot in the NFL. We have to try and score quicker.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

This is my thoughts on the same QB talk we've been hearing since January... can the season just start already??

[IMG]http://www.scsv.nevada.edu/~susanb/jblog/archives/frustrated.jpg[/IMG]

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579510]I don't care if he throws 15 to 17ints if he's getting the yardage and TD production. There are a lot of great QB's that probably averaged 15-17 ints a year. It's part of playing QB in the NFL.[/quote]Our offense can't function like that. It would drop our defenses total points against rank to the 20-25 range.

A very good TD/INT rate (5:2, 3:1) is a necessity. Campbell needs to toss 23-27 TDs this year, assuming 16 starts. About 1.5 per game. If he can get that up to the 30-32 range, he'll be in the pro bowl. But for that to happen, we'd need to find a legit big play source, and I think that's going to be an offensive hole this year.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579510]I don't care if he throws 15 to 17ints if he's getting the yardage and TD production. There are a lot of great QB's that probably averaged 15-17 ints a year. It's part of playing QB in the NFL.[/quote]


If Zorn opens it up and Kelly and Thomas with a nice dose of Mitchell is thrown in you will get an increase in red zone production for sure. ARE and Moss can't be doubled and will also see improved production. You just have to hope the O line holds and stays healthy. Our problem is not taking any chances. You can't be a winner in any avenue in any aspect of life being too scared to play/live. You will always be mediocre, which is what we have become since Gibbs came back.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;579513]This is my thoughts on the same QB talk we've been hearing since January... can the season just start already??

[IMG]http://www.scsv.nevada.edu/~susanb/jblog/archives/frustrated.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

No joke. I think every argument for or against every qb on the roster has already been made...about 1,000 times.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579516]Our offense can't function like that. It would drop our defenses total points against rank to the 20-25 range.

A very good TD/INT rate (5:2, 3:1) is a necessity. Campbell needs to toss 23-27 TDs this year, assuming 16 starts. About 1.5 per game. If he can get that up to the 30-32 range, he'll be in the pro bowl. But for that to happen, we'd need to find a legit big play source, and I think that's going to be an offensive hole this year.[/quote]


Dude, my uncle has some nice defenses at Ohio State, they rarely were #1 or even #2 in yards allowed, but they were always #1 with the turnover ratio and top 3. in scoring in the Big Ten. The result, he was the best in the Big Ten circa 1979-1987. Yardage given up is important, but is is the turnover ration and points allowed that really matter the most.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;579524]Dude, my uncle has some nice defenses at Ohio State, they rarely were #1 or even #2 in yards allowed, but they were always #1 with the turnover ratio and top 3. in scoring in the Big Ten. The result, he was the best in the Big Ten circa 1979-1987. Yardage given up is important, but is is the turnover ration and points allowed that really matter the most.[/quote]I think that the turnover rate was probably more reflective of OSU's dominance over the teams they played: if they were the best team on the field every week, it makes sense that they were going to force more turnovers than their overmatched opponents.

In that case, it's probably more about his defensive philosophy than anything else. I guess the success of the team defense speaks for itself.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;579513]This is my thoughts on the same QB talk we've been hearing since January... can the season just start already??

[IMG]http://www.scsv.nevada.edu/~susanb/jblog/archives/frustrated.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I agree. Unfortunately it's a symptom of not getting steady QB play for a decade.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579512]I think part of it is was Zorn pulling back cause of the line and part of it is JC not pulling the trigger. But still it's the coaches job to max protect and still try to take shots down field. 14 play drives don't happen a lot in the NFL. We have to try and score quicker.[/quote]I'm starting to think that max protect may not be the best way to go about generating the big plays. This is something that I'm just now considering based on evidence from the last preseason game, but I think the element of deception is critical for this offense to get big plays. If we block with seven or eight and send one guy on a post, he's going to have two guys on him every time. But in a five step drop, we can probably pick our spots and get one on ones. Then Campbell can take the shot if he has the time, or check it down if he doesn't.

If we max protect, we're gambling that we will catch them in a blitz. If we don't, then throwing it deep is just wasting the down, and risking the INT.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Hes gonna finish out the season... let him get out his bugs in preseason like the rest of the league. Lets wait and see.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;579517]If Zorn opens it up and Kelly and Thomas with a nice dose of Mitchell is thrown in you will get an increase in red zone production for sure. ARE and Moss can't be doubled and will also see improved production. You just have to hope the O line holds and stays healthy. Our problem is not taking any chances. You can't be a winner in any avenue in any aspect of life being too scared to play/live. You will always be mediocre, which is what we have become since Gibbs came back.[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head.
There a saying about risk and money: 'scared money don't make none'
Imo scoring in the NFL is all about risk management.
If you are scared to take risks in the RZ and on the goalline you won't score.
Teams are simple not going give up a rushing TD w/o a fight.
Imo you have to have your passing game on point in the RZ and goalline.
And our RZ/goalline playcalling was lacking.
In my memory most of the QBs that put up a big number benefit from creative goalline play passing, usually from playaction.
Our goalline offense and playcalling has been timid.
It was timid last year and thus far in preseason it has remained timid.
3 runs then a timeout to kick a FG? C'mon its preseason, grow a pair.

Sorry about my diatribe.
Just getting ansty for the Pats game.
I don't think we're ready.
And imo our passing game is going to be the key to the season.

HTTR!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579520]No joke. I think every argument for or against every qb on the roster has already been made...about 1,000 times.[/quote]

I don't believe we've made enough points about Randel El as the QB.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579531]I'm starting to think that max protect may not be the best way to go about generating the big plays. This is something that I'm just now considering based on evidence from the last preseason game, but I think the element of deception is critical for this offense to get big plays. If we block with seven or eight and send one guy on a post, he's going to have two guys on him every time. But in a five step drop, we can probably pick our spots and get one on ones. Then Campbell can take the shot if he has the time, or check it down if he doesn't.

If we max protect, we're gambling that we will catch them in a blitz. If we don't, then throwing it deep is just wasting the down, and risking the INT.[/quote]

Campbell has proven he's at least smart enough to throw the ball away. He's a great decision maker, he just needs the time to follow through with his decisions. Last year's crazy split showed he's solid when protected.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Buster;579670]I don't believe we've made enough points about Randel El as the QB.[/quote]

Or Marques Hagans for that matter

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579349]Your knowledge of other quarterbacks in this league is staggering.[/quote]

You can clown all you want, but he is one of the worst qbs in the league and I mean starting when I say that. It is just the truth, I've been a redskins fan since I started watching them play in 85 (not that this enhance my knowledge of qbs). It is just a fact that campbell is one of the worst starters in the league.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;579962]You can clown all you want, but he is one of the worst qbs in the league and I mean starting when I say that. It is just the truth, I've been a redskins fan since I started watching them play in 85 (not that this enhance my knowledge of qbs). It is just a fact that campbell is one of the worst starters in the league.[/quote]We have already been through this. He is not "one of the worst". Should we start to list them again?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579403]There are a few starting quarterbacks in the NFL who haven't proved adequacy:

1. Kyle Orton
2. Matt Cassel
3. Shaun Hill
4. The post-Green Bay Brett Favre
5. Matthew Stafford
6. Luke McCown
7. Mark Sanchez
8. The post-Martz Marc Bulger
9. JaMarcus Russell
10. Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn
11. Trent Edwards
12. Vince Young
13. Joe Flacco

You could take any of these guys over Campbell, but it would be merely a personal preference. Not anything based on past performance.[/quote]

I would take Cassell, Sanchez, Flacco and Derek Anderson over him anyday. Agreed that 5th worst label was a bit harsh, but the guy is visibly one of the worst in the league.

Young isn't even a starter anymore

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;579966]I would take Cassell, Sanchez, Flacco and Derek Anderson over him anyday. Agreed that 5th worst label was a bit harsh, but the guy is visibly one of the worst in the league.

Young isn't even a starter anymore[/quote]
So you would take a guy in Sanchez that has never taken a real NFL snap and hasn't looke dthat great either over JC? Boy am I glad you are not the coach.

And I like Joe Flacco but come on. Its like Gtripp said, its nothing more than personal preference. Because it sure as hell isn't because he is a far better QB. Look at the #s

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;579962]You can clown all you want, but he is one of the worst qbs in the league and I mean starting when I say that. It is just the truth, I've been a redskins fan since I started watching them play in 85 (not that this enhance my knowledge of qbs). It is just a fact that campbell is one of the worst starters in the league.[/quote]

Coming from someone with your name, you should be an expert on crappy QB play. Surprisingly though, you're not.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I hope I am wrong, but Campbell hasn't proven me to be. Flacco is obviously a better qb. Sanchez has way more potential than Campbell. Last two super bowls we won were with average quarterbacks, hopefully we can get a wild card birth this year with a poor one.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580007]I hope I am wrong, but Campbell hasn't proven me to be. Flacco is obviously a better qb. Sanchez has more way more potential than Campbell. Last two super bowls we won were with average quarterbacks, hopefully we can get a wild card birth this year with a poor one.[/quote]

Let's deal with objective and not subjective.

How is Flacco "obviously" better?

How do you know Sanchez has "way more" potential?

Based on what exactly?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580007]I hope I am wrong, but Campbell hasn't proven me to be. Flacco is obviously a better qb. Sanchez has way more potential than Campbell. Last two super bowls we won were with average quarterbacks, hopefully we can get a wild card birth this year with a poor one.[/quote]

A poor QB named Jay Schroeder got us into playoff contention.

Campbell is far better than you give him credit for, but the performance of the offensive line will make or break the season. The Hogs carried us to championships and these new guys will have to step up in a Hog-like way to get us to the SB again...regardless of who is the QB.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;580009]Let's deal with objective and not subjective.

How is Flacco "obviously" better?

How do you know Sanchez has "way more" potential?

Based on what exactly?[/quote]

Are you questioning Jay Schroeder's judgement? :D

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

and this isn't pure hate Im spewing here. If you choose to disagree so be it. But the guy looks awful in the pocket, slow, timid, inaccurate on the deep ball, etc...I don't care if it was raining, that throw to Malcolm Kelly was god awful. Snyder and Cerratto outdid themselves by hiring Zorn and picking Campbell in the first round.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Buster;580010]A poor QB named Jay Schroeder got us into playoff contention.

Campbell is far better than you give him credit for, but the performance of the offensive line will make or break the season. The Hogs carried us to championships and these new guys will have to step up in a Hog-like way to get us to the SB again...regardless of who is the QB.[/quote]

agreed

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;580009]Let's deal with objective and not subjective.

How is Flacco "obviously" better?

How do you know Sanchez has "way more" potential?

Based on what exactly?[/quote]

Thats just what I saw from him last year. The Monday Night game for one, and over the season, and campbell has like two years experience on Flacco.

Again the Sanchez statement is just my humble opinion from what I have seen so far.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580012]and this isn't pure hate Im spewing here. If you choose to disagree so be it. But the guy looks awful in the pocket, slow, timid, inaccurate on the deep ball, etc...I don't care if it was raining, that throw to Malcolm Kelly was god awful. Snyder and Cerratto outdid themselves by hiring Zorn and picking Campbell in the first round.[/quote]

"God awful?" Really? The throw missed by about two yards. It wasn't that bad of a throw. It was underthrown and Jason needs to lead him more, but by no means was it God awful.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580012]and this isn't pure hate Im spewing here. If you choose to disagree so be it. But the guy[B] looks awful in the pocket, slow, timid, inaccurate on the deep ball, etc[/B]...I don't care if it was raining, that throw to Malcolm Kelly was god awful. Snyder and Cerratto outdid themselves by hiring Zorn and picking Campbell in the first round.[/quote]Ok, I am starting to wonder if you have evn watched the preseason games now. You cant really think he looked like any of those things except maybe the deep ball, and it wasn't even that bad. A good WR goes up and make sthat catch and makes a play for his QB. As for slow, timid( scared), And looking plain awful in the pocket , well, that just isn't true and it shows your lack of actual football knowledge. Please.....Spewing pure hate is exactly what you are doing. I'm done with this mindless crap.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

wasn't that bad? It was that bad.
What has he shown you in regular season or preseason to make you believe he is not one of the worst starting qbs in the league.
I'm not attempting to be mindless here, or sling insults with any of you, and if I come off a bit harsh of the man then I can acknowledge that.
But I would be interested in some dialouge refuting my statements on his level of talent/performance if you feel so inclined.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580027]wasn't that bad? It was that bad.
What has he shown you in regular season or preseason to make you believe he is not one of the worst starting qbs in the league.
I'm not attempting to be mindless here, or sling insults with any of you, and if I come off a bit harsh of the man then I can acknowledge that.
But I would be interested in some dialouge refuting my statements on his level of talent/performance if you feel so inclined.[/quote]

The fact is he's just way better than you think. It's the truth

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Refuting totally subjective comments such as he looks awful in the pocket is pointless. When I see comments like that, I tend to think you already have your mind made up that he is one of the worst QBs in the league, despite the fact there are plenty of stats that would speak to the contrary.

I'd say right now he's very middle of the pack.