Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=tryfuhl;619865]I think that the mailing in the symbolic fan card thing was pretty clever and affordable.[/quote]

i would never mail in my fan card because i am a fan for life just don't care for the way it's being run right now

and skinny t, i don't have 13k annually but i have a lot of friends who buy season tix off me and i then sell the rest to other friends and fans but never over face value and never on stub hub

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

A former player indicated recently that Snyder treated players one way when they won and another way when they lost. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like to play under Snyder?
[B]Dan is great. He is sometimes too passionate about this team, but he treated the players with respect, and how can you not like a guy who pays you to play football? He gets a bad rap, and maybe he can do some things different in terms of putting this team together, but he is a good man. [/B]
--Matt Bowen

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Hog1;620525]A former player indicated recently that Snyder treated players one way when they won and another way when they lost. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like to play under Snyder?
[B]Dan is great. He is sometimes too passionate about this team, but he treated the players with respect, and how can you not like a guy who pays you to play football? He gets a bad rap, and maybe he can do some things different in terms of putting this team together, but he is a good man. [/B]
--Matt Bowen[/quote]
This is a bash snyder thread, how dare you insert a positive thought.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Hog1;620525]A former player indicated recently that Snyder treated players one way when they won and another way when they lost. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like to play under Snyder?
[B]Dan is great. He is sometimes too passionate about this team, but he treated the players with respect, and [B][I][U]how can you not like a guy who pays [/U][/I][/B]you to play football? He gets a bad rap, and maybe he can do some things different in terms of putting this team together, but he is a good man. [/B]
--Matt Bowen[/quote]

would you expect bowen to say otherwise

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

Well this really should just be discussed in the Bowen thread. But anyway, yeah it was maybe a bit odd for him to say why wouldn't you like a guy who pays you. But Bowen genuinely does like Snyder as a person and how he treated the players not only as players/employees but as people

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

If you read the entire Bowen int, he comes across as COMPLETELY sincere

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Hog1;620534]If you read the entire Bowen int, he comes across as COMPLETELY sincere[/quote]

i agree he did and he probaly does really like snyder, but he was paid by him and never had any problems, i have heard plenty of stories of people saying the complete opposite about him, it's a case to case basis, but regardless of what kinda of person he is he shouldn't be making football decisions for the team, i could care less about his personal life, i'm interested in what he is doing and not doing for the redskins organiztion

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=mlmdub130;620540]i agree he did and he probaly does really like snyder, but he was paid by him and never had any problems, i have heard plenty of stories of people saying the complete opposite about him, it's a case to case basis, but regardless of what kinda of person he is he shouldn't be making football decisions for the team, i could care less about his personal life, i'm interested in what he is doing and not doing for the redskins organiztion[/quote]

A few things:
I would place "direct testimony" of higher value than third hand info.
While you may not be concerned with DS's personal traits, many others on this site are. He has been endlessly portrayed as......well not good. I personally do NOT know what kind of owner he is nor does anyone here (to my knowledge). I thought pertinent to post info from someone who does.
HTTR

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=mlmdub130;620195]i would never mail in my fan card because i am a fan for life just don't care for the way it's being run right now

and skinny t, i don't have 13k annually but i have a lot of friends who buy season tix off me and i then sell the rest to other friends and fans but never over face value and never on stub hub[/quote]
I agree.. I wouldn't do it myself because of the implications of saying you're not a fan anymore but can come back

but it was clever

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

Seems like it has stalled a little over this week, what's your next moment to get it going, and have you gotten any solid sponsors, other than the Diamond guy?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Hog1;620553]A few things:
I would place "direct testimony" of higher value than third hand info.
While you may not be concerned with DS's personal traits, many others on this site are. He has been endlessly portrayed as......well not good. I personally do NOT know what kind of owner he is nor does anyone here (to my knowledge). I thought pertinent to post info from someone who does.
HTTR[/quote]

I do know what kind of person he is, i'm well aware of everything he has done be it with childrens hospital or with joe gibbs, and i'm not relying on some bs third party i know people who know him very well and i go off of what they tell me not some random person so i feel as though i am well informed, and i know who and what he is and honsetly i don't care for that type of person, i'm not just a random snyder hater, i used to like the guy but now i know who he is

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;620566]Seems like it has stalled a little over this week, what's your next moment to get it going, and have you gotten any solid sponsors, other than the Diamond guy?[/quote]

still working with mervis to do an event for a game but not sure when, it looks like the bye week hurt us alot more than it helped us we didn't know what to expect with it, but overall i do think we have suceeded since we grab local media attention and got our point across

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

Wouldn't we be better off with a billboard off the beltway? Seems like more people would see it that way.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;620580]Wouldn't we be better off with a billboard off the beltway? Seems like more people would see it that way.[/quote]
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=mlmdub130;620573]I do know what kind of person he is, i'm well aware of everything he has done be it with childrens hospital or with joe gibbs, and i'm not relying on some bs third party i know people who know him very well and i go off of what they tell me not some random person so i feel as though i am well informed, and i know who and what he is and honsetly i don't care for that type of person, i'm not just a random snyder hater, i used to like the guy but now i know who he is[/quote]

Since you do not care what kind of person he is, I can assume you do not fell compelled to write me any more......paragraphs proclaiming how much you do not care?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Hog1;620588]Since you do not care what kind of person he is, I can assume you do not fell compelled to write me any more......paragraphs proclaiming how much you do not care?[/quote]

the only reason i felt compelled to write in the first place was to justify myself, if you didn't want me to respond you shouldn't have questioned me, i'm not just a random donk hater, i know i am 100% justified for how i feel, and that is i am a die hard fan that loves this franchise and will til the day i die, but at this time and point i do not like the way it is being run by the front office and believe we need change

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

Well!!!

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=tryfuhl;620585]$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$[/quote]

Please, those are worth nothing. Now if you had posted a bunch of these

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

or even these

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Then I would have understood.

Anyway putting a sign on a bus in the inner city doesn't seem like the best way to reach Redskin ticket holders. Just saying.

I do think though that it would be amazing if someone could pull this off
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iHxrha4ti8g/SvHe9TxoFpI/AAAAAAAAAPs/lp_swDmTK14/S1600-R/BloggerHeader.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;620601]Please, those are worth nothing. Now if you had posted a bunch of these

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

or even these

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Then I would have understood.

[B]Anyway putting a sign on a bus in the inner city doesn't seem like the best way to reach Redskin ticket holders. Just saying.[/B]

I do think though that it would be amazing if someone could pull this off
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iHxrha4ti8g/SvHe9TxoFpI/AAAAAAAAAPs/lp_swDmTK14/S1600-R/BloggerHeader.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I promise, the buses go to more places than just Anacostia and Benning Heights.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;620602]I promise, the buses go to more places than just Anacostia and Benning Heights.[/quote]

Aw man, it would have been so much funnier though if they did. It's just that the buses here in Atlanta and Savannah don't really go to a whole lot of places as Atlanta has a reputation for rarely relying on public transportation.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

Not that I think this would ever happen b/c DC is a big market, but I think it would be funny/disastrous if Snyder sold the team and the new owner moved the team elsewhere. Not that I'm defending Snyder, is that I find the concept of an average fan demanding the team to be sold a bit laughable.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote from DHall Incident thread]
[quote=mlmdub130;623955]yeah we are gonna fail but it was fun while it lasted and i know our message got through to the front office, so in the end it was well worth it[/quote]

I'm so glad you had fun, and took your 15 minutes. So, tell me, has Vinny been fired overnight? or Dan sell OUR team? So exactly how do you know that the front office got the message. Did "DannyBoy" send you a message via email, snailmail, twitter, psychic hotline, that said - I hear you loud and clear?

And since you now KNOW that your message got through, does that mean you will support them and stop embarrassing our team because "Danny Boy" got the message.

I call BS and again say as fans, we have an obligation - not to be unrealistic - but support and encourage our team and ownership even in the bad times, and yes clearly these are bad times. There are enough bandwagon fans that have already fallen off that DS sees the difference, but people who spend every day at least looking in on the Skins, who have been, are, and will be lifetime Skins fanatics, we are the ones who need to remind the media, the NFL, that our Skins tradition, legacy and future are all tied to a fanbase that loves them through good and bad. Is it easy to say to other teams fans, damn we suck, and our owner has a lot to learn, but they are my team. Heck no, but that is our task right now as a die hard Skins fan. you want to write a letter every day to Snyder telling him how much you hate him, what you want him to change etc, great do it; but when you add to or try to add to the embarrassment the media wants to make of us, then I feel only joy that you failed in your attempt.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;623991][quote from DHall Incident thread]


I'm so glad you had fun, and took your 15 minutes. [B]So, tell me, has Vinny been fired overnight? or Dan sell OUR team? So exactly how do you know that the front office got the message. Did "DannyBoy" send you a message via email, snailmail, twitter, psychic hotline, that said - I hear you loud and clear?[/B]
And since you now [B]KNOW[/B] that your message got through, does that mean you will support them and stop embarrassing our team because "Danny Boy" got the message.

[B]I call BS[/B] and again say as fans, we have an [B]obligation[/B] - not [B]to[/B] be unrealistic - but [B]support and encourage our [/B]team and [B]ownership[/B] even in the bad times, and yes clearly these are bad times. There are enough bandwagon fans that have already fallen off that DS sees the difference, but people who spend every day at least looking in on the Skins, who have been, are, and will be lifetime Skins fanatics, we are the ones who need to remind the media, the NFL, that our Skins tradition, legacy and future are all tied to a fanbase that loves them through good and bad. Is it easy to say to other teams fans, damn we suck, and our owner has a lot to learn, but they are my team. Heck no, but that is our task right now as a die hard Skins fan. you want to write a letter every day to Snyder telling him how much you hate him, what you want him to change etc, great do it; [B]but when you add to or try to add to the embarrassment the media wants to make of us, then I feel only joy that you failed in your attempt[/B].[/quote]

i do know, i have said before i know people that know him and work with him, and i do know he heard about our website and campaign specifically, if you don't want to believe me i don't give a shit, i know thats all that matters to me

and like i said before are we supposed to blindly follow our owner and support him as if he was hitler never questioning him, or any of his decisions i don't think so, i would rather campaign publically and get our message out, if you haven't noticed we did that, if you wanna sit in your basement and not show your voice thats fine, i have the right to say whatever i want so i will

how did anything we did add to embarrassment to us the fans, none of the media attention we got was negative in any way did you actually read any thing or ae you just coming up to your conclusion on your own by following what others told you?

and to question my fan hood you have to be kidding me, i have been a fan since the day i was born and will always support my team, but if i don't want to support my owner i won't, i will never turn my back on the players and the team i love, and i will continue to support them, just not the owner, get the difference????

i'll do things my way and you continue to follow blindly just be careful when your the next one to fall off the cliff

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

First,
I wasn't questioning your fanhood. The bandwagon fans are those who just stop caring until the next SB rounds. You post, you care, I know that.

How you embarrased the team? why do you think the media called you? because they want to embarrass and drag down the Skins.

As I said before, if you had put up a positive message, one that referred to our past, gave a reminder of where our franchise once was, compared to now, then I would have donated, and supported your thing.

But all you did or tried to do was take a negative stereotype name, whine about it, and then proclaim victory and your closing statement "I'll do things my way". Hell that's Snyder to a Tee. He does things that mean nothing, becomes offseason champion, and then flops on the football field. If you feel successful that your campaign raised less than 20% of its goal, you should be jumping for joy at where the Skins are, at least they've won 25% of the time. (and if we win one more game, the Skins would have surpassed your percentage for the season)

Before you try to call me a lemming ask yourself whose view was more realistic from the beginning. I didn't fall off a cliff or follow the media throng blindly through the blame Snyder fiasco. You may feel that you did it your way, but in reality, you sit and scream what the lemmings want to hear. Good for you.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

So can we officially call this effort a fail and close the thread?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624026]So can we officially call this effort a fail and close the thread?[/quote]

Agreed.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

you might not be following the media but you did say you would follow our owner and i feel he has lead this franchise to where it is which is a cash cow. yes we were once a great franchise that was two decades ago are we gonna keep saying in another ten years, yeah we were a great franchise three decades ago, i hope not thats why i and alot of people decided to do something about it, all we can do is what we can and i am proud of what we have done. think of that what you will, but if you want to question me i will fire back, that's the way i am.
we will see what happens next year hopefully there will be change, and lots of it

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624026]So can we officially call this effort a fail and close the thread?[/quote]

It's kinda sad to come to this thread and see these guys getting constantly thrashed for this idea. Was it far fetched and a little poorly planned? Yes. Was it more than 99% of people will ever do besides blindly defend the team? Yes.

Hallelujah, close this thread.

:bdh:

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;623991][quote from DHall Incident thread]


I'm so glad you had fun, and took your 15 minutes. So, tell me, has Vinny been fired overnight? or Dan sell OUR team? So exactly how do you know that the front office got the message. Did "DannyBoy" send you a message via email, snailmail, twitter, psychic hotline, that said - I hear you loud and clear?

And since you now KNOW that your message got through, does that mean you will support them and stop embarrassing our team because "Danny Boy" got the message.

I call BS and again say as fans, we have an obligation - not to be unrealistic - but support and encourage our team and ownership even in the bad times, and yes clearly these are bad times. There are enough bandwagon fans that have already fallen off that DS sees the difference, but people who spend every day at least looking in on the Skins, who have been, are, and will be lifetime Skins fanatics, we are the ones who need to remind the media, the NFL, that our Skins tradition, legacy and future are all tied to a fanbase that loves them through good and bad. Is it easy to say to other teams fans, damn we suck, and our owner has a lot to learn, but they are my team. Heck no, but that is our task right now as a die hard Skins fan. you want to write a letter every day to Snyder telling him how much you hate him, what you want him to change etc, great do it; but when you add to or try to add to the embarrassment the media wants to make of us, then I feel only joy that you failed in your attempt.[/quote]

Why are you a few others taking this so personal? Some of you areso determined to make mlmdob30 look bad, it makes you look bitter.
Dan Snyder and his FO embarrassed the Redskins all by themselves, not the fans.
Why do you care or get so upset at what other fans do?
When Dan took over the team 10 years ago or so, he wanted to be in the limelight and loved the attention. Snyder's smug big cigars in mouth and feet up on the desk image has fueled the Redskins backlash not the fans.
He loves to make a big splash.
Well know he has everyone's attention. You can not turn it on and off like a light switch.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Defensewins;624038][B]Why are you a few others taking this so personal?[/B] Some of you areso determined to make mlmdob30 look bad, it makes you look bitter.
Dan Snyder and his FO embarrassed the Redskins all by themselves, not the fans.
[B]Why do you care or get so upset at what other fans do? [/B]
When Dan took over the team 10 years ago or so, he wanted to be in the limelight and loved the attention. Snyder's smug big cigars in mouth and feet up on the desk image has fueled the Redskins backlash not the fans.
He loves to make a big splash.
Well know he has everyone's attention. You can not turn it on and off like a light switch.[/quote]

my sentiments exactly, i feel like i have been personally attacked and don't know why we are just fans voicing our opinions, and i have to keep explaining and defending my self and yes it's a lot like beating a dead horse

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Defensewins;624038]Why are you a few others taking this so personal? [B]Some of you areso determined to make mlmdob30 look bad,[/B] it makes you look bitter.
Dan Snyder and his FO embarrassed the Redskins all by themselves, not the fans.
Why do you care or get so upset at what other fans do?
When Dan took over the team 10 years ago or so, he wanted to be in the limelight and loved the attention. Snyder's smug big cigars in mouth and feet up on the desk image has fueled the Redskins backlash not the fans.
He loves to make a big splash.
Well know he has everyone's attention. You can not turn it on and off like a light switch.[/quote]

I am not trying to make Imdub, or anyone else look bad, but I think that this action was poorly planned, and childish, mImpetert had very good interaction, and I tried to make some positive statements. BUT, look at indub's quotes, "I'll do things my way", "you criticize me (which I didn't, I criticized the idea and methodology) and I'll fire back". Those are the same type thinking that Snyder so rightly gets criticized for. mImpetert basically acknowledged that it was responding to Snyder in a Snyderesque way, and I have said clearly I felt that put all of us fans in a bad light, and the media turns it around and mocks the Redskins, because of both extremes.


That said, I will leave it alone. Matty, I will leave my postings off, but I think you ought to let this stay open for the full term of the drive.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;624056]I am not trying to make Imdub, or anyone else look bad, but I think that this action was poorly planned, and childish, mImpetert had very good interaction, and I tried to make some positive statements. BUT, look at indub's quotes, "I'll do things my way", "you criticize me (which I didn't, I criticized the idea and methodology) and I'll fire back". Those are the same type thinking that Snyder so rightly gets criticized for. mImpetert basically acknowledged that it was responding to Snyder in a Snyderesque way, and I have said clearly I felt that put all of us fans in a bad light, and the media turns it around and mocks the Redskins, because of both extremes.


That said, I will leave it alone. Matty, I will leave my postings off, but I think you ought to let this stay open for the full term of the drive.[/quote]

In any given situation where there are two ends, there are extremes, there's always fringe crazies and I don't think mlm falls into that category.

One poorly organized stance doesn't make everyone look bad. It might make HIM look bad. But because of one bad egg, you don't throw out the entire dozen.

I really don't think this has changed anyones minds about the Skins organization or the fans. At the end of the day we still suck, Snyder is still the owner and nobody outside of the Metro area (including out of state Redskins fans) really give a damn about us. They've got their own football teams and problems to worry about/cheer for.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

CRedskinsRule you need to be calling BS on Snyder and f-ing horrible last 10 years running this organization. People are fed up. This just hasnt been "one bad year" this has been a steady decline since he took the reigns. Its really disgraceful, and nobody on here is a bandwagon fan...im saying we shouldnt support a Vinny/Snyder run FO anymore, its to that point. I think everything, the booing, this attempt, the National media criticism does impact Snyder if he a so-called die hard fan, it should. His image has deservingly taken a hit. And if the fans sit around and not say anything... fine, but I never see any problem with voicing displeasure at such obvious incompentences such his running of this once proud franchise.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Chico23231;624064]CRedskinsRule [B]you need to be calling BS on Snyder [/B]and f-ing horrible last 10 years running this organization. People are fed up. This just hasnt been "one bad year" this has been a steady decline since he took the reigns. Its really disgraceful, and nobody on here is a bandwagon fan...im saying we shouldnt support a Vinny/Snyder run FO anymore, its to that point. I think everything, the booing, this attempt, the National media criticism does impact Snyder if he a so-called die hard fan, it should. His image has deservingly taken a hit. And if the fans sit around and not say anything... fine, but I never see any problem with voicing displeasure at such obvious incompentences such his running of this once proud franchise.[/quote]

That is what I was thinking when I was reading the posts critical of mlmdub130.
Not that I think mlmdub130 needs defending, but he is not the problem here. I am sure he would be a fan going to games if the team was even half way decent.
While I do not literally agree with certain ideas to get Snyder's attention, most notably a campaign to try get rid of him. But sometimes to get the attention of someone as insulated as Snyder has become, it takes some extreme/exaggerated verbiage, even though it is not the intended final goal. I am sure most of us (like me) do not want to see Snyder gone. I just want him to immediately fire Vinny and surrender all FO decisions to a highly qualified and brilliant football professional. That is all.
Ten years of the same BS enough.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624026]So can we officially call this effort a fail and close the thread?[/quote]

Do you still have thread closing duties or has Smootsmack stripped you of those and gave them to Joe Crisp?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Paintrain;624190]Do you still have thread closing duties or has Smootsmack stripped you of those and gave them to Joe Crisp?[/quote]

I have total power, Smootsmack is just my Vinny. ;)

Who is this Joe Crisp that you speak of?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624201]I have total power, Smootsmack is just my Vinny. ;)

Who is this Joe Crisp that you speak of?[/quote]

Lol, well stated while he is on vacation and unable to reply..

Crisp was a callback to the days of old when the Redskins allowed all reporters access to the team.. Just a history lesson to the young wippersnappers around here.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Paintrain;624207]Lol, well stated while he is on vacation and unable to reply..

Crisp was a callback to the days of old when the Redskins allowed all reporters access to the team.. Just a history lesson to the young wippersnappers around here.[/quote]

Karl Swanson killed him.

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624201]I have total power, Smootsmack is just my Vinny. ;)

Who is this Joe Crisp that you speak of?[/quote]

Your Vinny?! Couldn't I be Gregg Williams to your Joe Gibbs? Goodell to your Tagliabue? Dudley to your Arnold? Data to your Mikey?

Re: Sell OUR Team Danny Boy - DC Metro Bus Ads
 

[quote=SmootSmack;624787]Your Vinny?! Couldn't I be Gregg Williams to your Joe Gibbs? Goodell to your Tagliabue? Dudley to your Arnold? Data to your Mikey?[/quote]
Maybe Betts to his Portis.