Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632347]I believe there will be two franchise tags available per team in an uncapped year

I wish they would make a long-term decision one way or another on Campbell this off-season.

Ganther, Rock, and Mason all feel like the same RB to me. Hard working 10-15 touches a game backs. Their contributions are important but I don't see them as being our lead backs ever. They're like Keith Griffin

(side note-watching Zorn's press conference and it's amazing how candid he is about what his coaching future is)[/quote]

Yeah, i noticed the same thing. And he admitted to the fact that every time he injected himself in the playcalling process, it was a failed play. I don't necessarily agree with the way Zorn's been treated, but our whole playcalling system is ridiculous.

he seems to be pushing hard to make snyder look like a fool for not giving him a third year, with all his comments about how long it takes for players to grasp the system and get to the point where they can really play fast and exploit defenses.

My biggest fear is something that Thom and Kevin were talking about before the press conference, though - with the 2008 draft class finally contributing and making plays (thomas, davis, kelly, tryon, moore, etc.) it only reinforces the notion that the FO structure that Snyder and Cerrato are running is working, as good talent is being acquired, and the only problem with the team is the coach - zorn. I'm becoming less and less certain that Cerrato will get the axe after the season ends.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632358]Yeah, i noticed the same thing. And he admitted to the fact that every time he injected himself in the playcalling process, it was a failed play. I don't necessarily agree with the way Zorn's been treated, but our whole playcalling system is ridiculous.

he seems to be pushing hard to make snyder look like a fool for not giving him a third year, with all his comments about how long it takes for players to grasp the system and get to the point where they can really play fast and exploit defenses.

My biggest fear is something that Thom and Kevin were talking about before the press conference, though - with the 2008 draft class finally contributing and making plays (thomas, davis, kelly, tryon, moore, etc.) it only reinforces the notion that the FO structure that Snyder and Cerrato are running is working, as good talent is being acquired, and the only problem with the team is the coach - zorn. I'm becoming less and less certain that Cerrato will get the axe after the season ends.[/quote]

He was only joking about every play he called being a failure...but he did call the plays at the end of the game

You don't often hear coaches talk about how tough it is for them when they know they're on the verge of being fired. It's usually canned, cliche responses. Not from Zorn

And maybe the problem with the team is the coach? Or at least that he's tried to take on too much.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632366]He was only joking about every play he called being a failure...but he did call the plays at the end of the game

You don't often hear coaches talk about how tough it is for them when they know they're on the verge of being fired. It's usually canned, cliche responses. Not from Zorn

And maybe the problem with the team is the coach? Or at least that he's tried to take on too much.[/quote]

He was laughing, but i got the impression there was some truth to it... i agree that Zorn took on way too much when he started and think this offense would have been much better if he'd had less responsibility. However, it was HIS decision to take on that much responsiblity, when i'm sure everyone advising him told him it would be too much.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632358]My biggest fear is something that Thom and Kevin were talking about before the press conference, though - with the 2008 draft class finally contributing and making plays (thomas, davis, kelly, tryon, moore, etc.) it only reinforces the notion that the FO structure that Snyder and Cerrato are running is working, as good talent is being acquired, and the only problem with the team is the coach - zorn. I'm becoming less and less certain that Cerrato will get the axe after the season ends.[/quote]Problem is though, even if we ignore the first 23 games of the careers of those guys, and just use the last four games as a barometer of the quality of the picks, you still have two guys who are performing at a 4th round level of play (Thomas and Kelly), and one guy who is living up to his draft status, but not exceeding it (Davis), when the whole idea of the selection was that he would be like a first round TE in the second round.

Thomas and Kelly might be offering us more than Moss is right now, but that's more of a discredit to what Moss is offering than due to the numerous strides made by both Kelly and Thomas.

They are however, both very cheap for the next two years, so I think you could build an offense that focuses on the TEs and slot receivers in the passing game, and start Kelly and Thomas at the receivers and have a respectable offense if the OL is improved.

Is there a dynamic slot reciever that we could acquire through the draft? Golden Tate, maybe (even though I don't think he comes out)?

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632366]He was only joking about every play he called being a failure...but he did call the plays at the end of the game

You don't often hear coaches talk about how tough it is for them when they know they're on the verge of being fired. It's usually canned, cliche responses. Not from Zorn
[B]
And maybe the problem with the team is the coach? Or at least that he's tried to take on too much.[/B][/quote]I just don't think that explains everything that has happened to this team this year. Perhaps bad coaching is a reason that we've lost close games on the margin, but getting outcoached wouldn't explain why Detroit, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and K.C. were all in games with us in the second half.

Issues at the safety level of the defense, and on the outside on offense, as well as up front I think are primarily responsible for the team underachieving expectations.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=GTripp0012;632376]Problem is though, even if we ignore the first 23 games of the careers of those guys, and just use the last four games as a barometer of the quality of the picks, you still have two guys who are performing at a 4th round level of play (Thomas and Kelly), and one guy who is living up to his draft status, but not exceeding it (Davis), when the whole idea of the selection was that he would be like a first round TE in the second round.

Thomas and Kelly might be offering us more than Moss is right now, but that's more of a discredit to what Moss is offering than due to the numerous strides made by both Kelly and Thomas.

They are however, both very cheap for the next two years, so I think you could build an offense that focuses on the TEs and slot receivers in the passing game, and start Kelly and Thomas at the receivers and have a respectable offense if the OL is improved.

Is there a dynamic slot reciever that we could acquire through the draft? Golden Tate, maybe (even though I don't think he comes out)?[/quote]

Prioritizing our needs, I honestly don't see receiver as being a position we need to upgrade in 2009. I think ARE just needs to be cut and Moss moved into the slot.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632385]Prioritizing our needs, I honestly don't see receiver as being a position we need to upgrade in 2009. I think ARE just needs to be cut and Moss moved into the slot.[/quote]But then who is the third down target if teams want to take away Cooley? Davis, perhaps?

Or do we just assume Moss makes a seamless transition and suddenly becomes dependable again.

Re: Our next coach??
 

Now that Charlie Weis is officially gone from ND apparently Brian Billick is being mentioned as a top candidate for the Notre Dame gig...so maybe he's not coming here

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632442]Now that Charlie Weis is officially gone from ND apparently Brian Billick is being mentioned as a top candidate for the Notre Dame gig...so maybe he's not coming here[/quote]

Thank god!! I hope they are right.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632385]Prioritizing our needs, I honestly don't see receiver as being a position we need to upgrade in 2009. I think ARE just needs to be cut and Moss moved into the slot.[/quote]

Id like to see a vet reciever here next year with Moss n the slot and Thomas/Kelly in the other reciever. Im not talking about throwing some dumbass 25-35 million deal...im talking about a leadership guy with a little time left to teach the kids and run good routes...someone reliable...

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Chico23231;632454]Id like to see a vet reciever here next year with Moss n the slot and Thomas/Kelly in the other reciever. Im not talking about throwing some dumbass 25-35 million deal...im talking about a leadership guy with a little time left to teach the kids and run good routes...someone reliable...[/quote]

I'm back to hoping that we just get a professional grade FO and coaching staff, let them sort out the rotten apples from the good ones.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SBXVII;632303]
RB? You don't like what you see in Ganther? he was the Titans 3rd rounder a few yrs ago. I think he looks great. Maybe pick up a late rounder after we have picked up OL.
[/quote]
Pretty sure that they said he was a 7th rounder, but none of that matters if he can be productive. He's only had 11 attempts in the 3 games, I don't think that you can make an evaluation and determine that he's the starter from that alone. I'd probably be more comfortable with keeping Rock, letting him and Ganther be alternative 2/3 and hopefully find somebody that can start, unless Ganther can show that it's his job.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=GTripp0012;632388]But then who is the third down target if teams want to take away Cooley? Davis, perhaps?

Or do we just assume Moss makes a seamless transition and suddenly becomes dependable again.[/quote]

I think he'd certainly be more productive in the slot and win more matchups. I also think that, whether they have true #1/2 talent or not, Thomas and Kelly would do "fine" as our outside receivers. at the very least, you'd have bigger bodies out deeper blocking for moss on a lot of plays. If even one of them develops, it would keep defenses honest, forcing them to keep a safety back and not double up cooley and Moss on third downs.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632366]He was only joking about every play he called being a failure...but he did call the plays at the end of the game

You don't often hear coaches talk about how tough it is for them when they know they're on the verge of being fired. It's usually canned, cliche responses. Not from Zorn

And maybe the problem with the team is the coach? Or at least that he's tried to take on too much.[/quote]
I know that coaches have big ego's but I don't see why he takes over play calling. So that if it works he can say that he was the one that called them?

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632442]Now that Charlie Weis is officially gone from ND apparently Brian Billick is being mentioned as a top candidate for the Notre Dame gig...so maybe he's not coming here[/quote]

I thought that aside from not winning enough Weis's biggest problem at ND was that the Alumni never liked him and thought he was a jerk. I can't see Billick being the type to get along with the ND boosters. They seem to have similar know it all personalities that rub people the wrong way.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632442]Now that Charlie Weis is officially gone from ND apparently Brian Billick is being mentioned as a top candidate for the Notre Dame gig...so maybe he's not coming here[/quote]

Supposedly Weis has already been offered an OC job by some NFL teams. At least he's reportedly said that. Vinny has bigtime ties to ND. You think.....??? Just thinking out loud.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=53Fan;632523]Supposedly Weis has already been offered an OC job by some NFL teams. At least he's reportedly said that. Vinny has bigtime ties to ND. You think.....??? Just thinking out loud.[/quote]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I know Weis is pretty highly regarded as an offensive mind in the NFL. I can see the Redskins, Browns, Bills, Panthers, Bucs all inquiring about him

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632497]I think he'd certainly be more productive in the slot and win more matchups. I also think that, whether they have true #1/2 talent or not, [B]Thomas and Kelly would do "fine" as our outside receivers. at the very least, you'd have bigger bodies out deeper blocking for moss on a lot of plays.[/B] If even one of them develops, it would keep defenses honest, forcing them to keep a safety back and not double up cooley and Moss on third downs.[/quote]Yeah, and like I tried (probably failed) to point out above, this is still a rushing team by nature. At their current cost, neither Thomas or Kelly is a bad option to go out there in a base 3 WR offense.

One of the things I forsee next year is an offense where Davis plays a traditional tight end full-time, and Cooley returns to more of an H-Back/Joker role where he may line up in the backfield, on the line, in the slot, or isolated out wide on any given play.

But if we want to be more of a passing offense (and if we draft a QB, how could we not argue that point), we also need a more dynamic slot receiver to work with. Our receivers are adequate, if we are going to put the ball on the ground as much as we are currently doing.

But then we need to be more successful when we run.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632527]Wouldn't surprise me at all. I know Weis is pretty highly regarded as an offensive mind in the NFL. I can see the Redskins, Browns, Bills, Panthers, Bucs all inquiring about him[/quote]

I'm not opposed to him being in that role. However, hopefully this is a decision that would be made by our new Head Coach and approved by our new General Manger. The last thing this teams needs is to hire an offensive coordinator before a head coach again.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=GTripp0012;632529]Yeah, and like I tried (probably failed) to point out above, this is still a rushing team by nature. At their current cost, neither Thomas or Kelly is a bad option to go out there in a base 3 WR offense.

One of the things I forsee next year is an offense where Davis plays a [B]traditional tight end full-time, and Cooley returns to more of an H-Back/Joker role where he may line up in the backfield, on the line, in the slot, or isolated out wide on any given play.[/B]

But if we want to be more of a passing offense (and if we draft a QB, how could we not argue that point), we also need a more dynamic slot receiver to work with. Our receivers are adequate, if we are going to put the ball on the ground as much as we are currently doing.

But then we need to be more successful when we run.[/quote]

now that would be really interesting, although i wonder how Cooley would feel about it. Of course, it would also depend on what type of offense we ran. And not that finances should ever dictate these matters, but i think cooley would be grossly overpaid in such a role. However, i'd be for anything that would put Davis and Cooley on the field at the same time as part of our base offensive package... Is converting Davis to WR a possiblity at all?

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632533]I'm not opposed to him being in that role. However, hopefully this is a decision that would be made by our new Head Coach and approved by our new General Manger. The last thing this teams needs is to hire an offensive coordinator before a head coach again.[/quote]

Well if it's Mike Shanahan then he's not bringing in Charlie Weis

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=53Fan;632523]Supposedly Weis has already been offered an OC job by some NFL teams. At least he's reportedly said that. Vinny has bigtime ties to ND. You think.....??? Just thinking out loud.[/quote]

Being that he is a Parcells/Belichick guy, I could see him in Miami or back in NE.

Re: Our next coach??
 

I wish the season was over just to know who the next coach is. I mean it's all people post about, that and Jason "lights out" Campbell. I can't wait for the draft.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;632571]I wish the season was over just to know who the next coach is. I mean it's all people post about, that and [B]Jason "lights out" Campbell[/B]. I can't wait for the draft.[/quote]

You're a trip Tramp. :laughing-

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;632570]Being that he is a Parcells/Belichick guy, I could see him in Miami or back in NE.[/quote]

NE has no offensive coordinator at present.

Re: Our next coach??
 

you beat me to it. once Weiss left, the job was never filled. he probably has his plane tickets back to N.E.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=dmek25;632605]you beat me to it. once Weiss left, the job was never filled. he probably has his plane tickets back to N.E.[/quote]

Josh McDaniels was offensive coordinator

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=RedskinMike;632612]Josh McDaniels was offensive coordinator[/quote]

That's what I thought. Nice catch!

Re: Our next coach??
 

The Patriots don't officially have an offensive coordinator now I don't think. Weis has been rumored as a candidate there. Also, Cleveland, St. Louis, and I think Chicago maybe have been mentioned as well. Package deal with Jimmy Clausen perhaps?

Re: Our next coach??
 

watching these saints play on monday night, I am soooooo mad at Snyder for letting Greg Williams leave! That is our HC roaming the Saints sideline

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632631]The Patriots don't officially have an offensive coordinator now I don't think. Weis has been rumored as a candidate there. Also, Cleveland, St. Louis, and I think Chicago maybe have been mentioned as well. [B]Package deal with Jimmy Clausen perhaps[/B]?[/quote]

Perhaps...but unless Weis is going to block for him, there will be another JC in Washington running for his life. :)

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632637]watching these saints play on monday night, I am soooooo mad at Snyder for letting Greg Williams leave! That is our HC roaming the Saints sideline[/quote]

I like to think I'm a pretty decent moderator, as are the other mods on this site. We do our jobs to the best of our abilities, offer up some different looks and overall keep things in check.

But it doesn't even remotely compare to what Matty does as the site administrator.

It's possible Williams is just a good coordinator

Re: Our next coach??
 

A lot of NFL jobs could be available, there are rumors now that the Packers might let McCarthy go

Re: Our next coach??
 

I hear ya, but I am one of those that believe that Gibbs mentored Williams to be the HC. When Taylor died the players seemed to be bonded to Williams, especially when he did the 10 players on the field thing and his use of comcast to motivate his players.
Snyder really blew it as a owner on that one.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632670]I hear ya, but I am one of those that believe that Gibbs mentored Williams to be the HC. When Taylor died the players seemed to be bonded to Williams, especially when he did the 10 players on the field thing and his use of comcast to motivate his players.
Snyder really blew it as a owner on that one.[/quote]

yup, yup

(had to put it twice minimum 4 letter post)

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632670]I hear ya, but [I]I am one of those that believe that Gibbs mentored Williams to be the HC.[/I] When Taylor died the players seemed to be bonded to Williams, especially when he did the 10 players on the field thing and his use of comcast to motivate his players.
Snyder really blew it as a owner on that one.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Gibbs [I]didn't[/I] endorse Williams to Snyder and thats probably why Snyder chose to go in a different direction - because of Gibbs' advice. Williams was a failure in Buffalo as a HC and revealed alot about his character by only playing 10 men on the field in the 1st game after ST died and NOT telling his boss - Joe Gibbs - about it in advance.

Put yourself in Gibbs' and Snyder's shoes - why on earth would you [I]promote[/I] someone who was so [U]blatantly insubordinate[/U]? How could you trust someone like that to continue in their current role, let alone give them [i]more[/i] authority? The answer is simple - you wouldn't. I'm sure that wasn't the only factor that played into the decision, but i'm sure it contributed to it.

It would be hard to argue that this team would be worse off with Williams - or anyone else that was available to us after Gibbs retired - than it has been under Zorn, but Williams certainly wouldn't have been the long-term answer here. And our defense has actually [I]improved[/I] under Blache. I'm sorry, but Williams would not have been a good HC here and he'll never be a good HC anywhere in the league. Some guys are just not cut out for HC jobs.

Re: Our next coach??
 

Gibbs thought Williams would be a fine candidate, but never flat out told Snyder "This is the guy you have to hire." I personally think Williams should be afforded a second chance to be a head coach (as I understand it, there were some significant off the field issues in Buffalo but if you give players second chances...), and it probably should have been here. I don't know that he'd be a good head coach, which requires a lot more than being a coordinator.

Still, Williams wouldn't have solved our problem of offensive playcalling and execution. Some reports have said he would have kept Al Saunders, but I've heard others say he wanted to go in a different direction because he didn't feel like Saunders' style of offense would help his defense out.

Anyway, at the end of the day what ultimately did in Williams was that Snyder made the decision to entrust all football authority to Vinny Cerrato. And Cerrato didn't want Williams and Williams didn't want to report to Cerrato.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632814]Gibbs thought Williams would be a fine candidate, but never flat out told Snyder "This is the guy you have to hire." I personally think Williams should be afforded a second chance to be a head coach (as I understand it, there were some significant off the field issues in Buffalo but if you give players second chances...), and it probably should have been here. I don't know that he'd be a good head coach, which requires a lot more than being a coordinator.

Still, Williams wouldn't have solved our problem of offensive playcalling and execution. Some reports have said he would have kept Al Saunders, but I've heard others say he wanted to go in a different direction because he didn't feel like Saunders' style of offense would help his defense out.

Anyway, at the end of the day what ultimately did in Williams was that Snyder made the decision to entrust all football authority to Vinny Cerrato. And Cerrato didn't want Williams and Williams didn't want to report to Cerrato.[/quote]

i've also read that Williams didn't want Campbell, whom he viewed as a "coach killer." I give Williams credit for that. He was on the money, there.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632821]i've also read that Williams didn't want Campbell, whom he viewed as a "coach killer." I give Williams credit for that. He was on the money, there.[/quote]

I think Vinny is more of a coach killer right now than Campbell.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;632822]I think Vinny is more of a coach killer right now than Campbell.[/quote]

in that sense, Williams was right on both points.