Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[quote=53Fan;679088]I think he has the right to refuse a trade to any team he doesn't want to go to, but if they give him an extention and the moneys right..... I also heard Oakland is willing to give up Asomugha for him.[/quote]

Only in principle. Basically his best chance to stop a trade is to scare the crap out of a team that wants to trade for him.

[quote=tootergray34;679266]did anybody really think jamarcus was going to be good coming out of LSU? be honest.[/quote]

I personally didn't (can't say I said the same thing about Quinn) but apparently a lot scouts fell in love with him during the offseason leading up to the draft. I've heard some people compare his skillset to that of John Elway. He's also had one of the most impressive pro days in recent memory, weighing in at 256 and running a 4.8 40, then throwing the ball 60 yards from his knees. All the while being all but personally in-sync with his recievers at his pro day despite spending most of him time training out of state.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=tootergray34;679266]did anybody really think jamarcus was going to be good coming out of LSU? be honest.[/quote]I think the more relevant question is: was there enough evidence available prior to 2007 to have concluded that JaMarcus Russell was going to struggle coming out of LSU?

To me, it's not retroactive history to suggest that yes, people should have been more aware of Russell's college flaws and bust potential. But I've long thought that the team that is picking first overall in the draft has an unbelievable amount of control over the way information regarding a prospect gets disseminated through certain channels. And had someone besides Oakland held the first overall pick, I think that the way Russell would have been perceived by the masses would have been very different, because I don't think a lot of teams were quite as stricken with him as they were.

There were some really interesting things written after that pick that looked fishy then.

[url=http://prod.www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80025288&template=without-video&confirm=true]Russell was only choice for No. 1 pick[/url]

I guess that's the lesson here, re: Bradford. A lot of stuff that's coming through is coming through the people with the Rams who are in charge of evaluating him. And that's one of the many reasons I think that Bradford is immune to some of the criticism that Clausen is catching. After all, did anyone get Mike Holmgren's opinion on Sam Bradford?

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Which is not to say that teams that aren't the Rams aren't high on Sam Bradford. I think we're just as poised to take him as the Rams are. But any player who is going to get passed over in the draft by any team is going to have questions raised about his mental makeup, etc. Even if you're not going to select the best available player, teams are going to do whatever they need to in order to spin it so that the player they are taking is perceived as the best available. Everyone does it, not just the Raiders.

And I think that's really all the negative viewpoints of Clausen really say about him: a bunch of teams in the top ten are going to pass on him. So regardless of whether it's the right or wrong move (I believe they are justified), negative scouting opinions from professionals are getting leaked.

The end result is that this rift is being created between Bradford and Clausen, and if you actually had access to all the scouting reports between the 32 teams, I'd imagine that the mean grade would be pretty darn close.

Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;679267][B]Only in principle.[/B] Basically his best chance to stop a trade is to scare the crap out of a team that wants to trade for him.

Not sure what you mean Dirtbag. Does he or doesn't he?

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Jamarcus Russell puts Sammy Davis jr. to shame, check the figurine of himself [B]"Chosen" [/B]dangling from his chest on the necklace.

[url=http://www.aaronrodgersneighborhood.com/2010/02/tnts-basketball-announcers-go-after-jamarcus-russells-jewelry/]TNT’s Basketball Announcers Go After JaMarcus Russell’s Jewelry | Aaron Rodgers' Neighborhood[/url]

Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[quote=53Fan;679289]
Not sure what you mean Dirtbag. Does he or doesn't he?[/quote]

McNabb does not have a no trade clause. If he wanted to prevent a trade he would basically have to go to the media and scare off certain teams that would try to trade for him. For example saying outright publicaly that he will not sign a contract extension with Buffalo or Oakland if he were to be traded or better yet saying that he will not play for them. Legally though he can't stop a trade on his own.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=tootergray34;679266]did anybody really think jamarcus was going to be good coming out of LSU? be honest.[/quote]

[url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2007.php]WalterFootball.com: 2007 NFL Mock Draft[/url]

There are two things Al Davis looks for every April: athleticism and arm strength (for quarterbacks). JaMarcus Russell has both attributes, and reminds me of Daunte Culpepper circa 2004. Moreover, Russell's ability to elude defenders will come in handy once opposing pass rushers easily squeak through Oakland's pitiful offensive line.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;678600]Why do the Raiders want McNabb when they have Gradkowski? Give him a chance before you trade for a vet like McNabb. Plus I think thats the last NFL team McNabb wants to play for.[/quote]

Yeah, I was impressed with Gradowski last year. The kid has an absolute cannon, and he's going to be there for a while. McNabb on the other hand, will want out just like every other pro bowler who's gone to the Raiders.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;679302][url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2007.php]WalterFootball.com: 2007 NFL Mock Draft[/url]

There are two things Al Davis looks for every April: athleticism and arm strength (for quarterbacks). JaMarcus Russell has both attributes, and reminds me of Daunte Culpepper circa 2004. Moreover, Russell's ability to elude defenders will come in handy once opposing pass rushers easily squeak through Oakland's pitiful offensive line.[/quote]

So much for Walter Football's being the end-all of football analysis. They had the pick right (he was chosen by the Raiders) but the player analysis wrong.

Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679292]McNabb does not have a no trade clause. If he wanted to prevent a trade he would basically have to go to the media and scare off certain teams that would try to trade for him. For example saying outright publicaly that he will not sign a contract extension with Buffalo or Oakland if he were to be traded or better yet saying that he will not play for them. Legally though he can't stop a trade on his own.[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up. :thumb: I was under the impression he had the right to refuse.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;679302][url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2007.php]WalterFootball.com: 2007 NFL Mock Draft[/url]

There are two things Al Davis looks for every April: athleticism and arm strength (for quarterbacks). JaMarcus Russell has both attributes, and reminds me of Daunte Culpepper circa 2004. Moreover, Russell's ability to elude defenders will come in handy once opposing pass rushers easily squeak through Oakland's pitiful offensive line.[/quote]

haha...that must be a misprint! Walter is never wrong about a franchise QB!

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Schefter saying that the Raiders are leading the way

[url=http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/11267993825]Twitter / Adam Schefter: Oakland has emerged as lea ...[/url]

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Good I hope he leaves Philly ASAP! I bet he hopes they don't trade him to Oakland lol

Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679292]McNabb does not have a no trade clause. If he wanted to prevent a trade he would basically have to go to the media and scare off certain teams that would try to trade for him. For example saying outright publicaly that he will not sign a contract extension with Buffalo or Oakland if he were to be traded or better yet saying that he will not play for them. Legally though he can't stop a trade on his own.[/quote]
It's actually much easier than that. Since McNabb has only one year left on his current contract, a team that trades for him will need to negotiate a new contract or an extension.

All Mcnabb has to do is not come to any agreement. Bingo, trade is nullified and McNabb stays in Philly.

As stated he doesn't have a no trade clause. But with only one year remaining on his contract, he really is in the drivers seat as to where he ends up if traded.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;679584]Good I hope he leaves Philly ASAP! I bet he hopes they don't trade him to Oakland lol[/quote]

I don't. I hope he stays in Philli. Again since his injuries he's been slower, less of a runner and more of a pocket passer, and predictable under pressure. Basically he sucks now. He's hardly the QB he used to be. They bring in Kolbe and we are screwed with a QB that has youth, health, and arm strength.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If they can get a 1st for him they better take it he's been in the league how long still playing at a high level grab the 1st and move on.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;679613]I don't. I hope he stays in Philli. Again since his injuries he's been slower, less of a runner and more of a pocket passer, and predictable under pressure. Basically he sucks now. He's hardly the QB he used to be. They bring in Kolbe and we are screwed with a QB that has youth, health, and arm strength.[/quote]

Damn wish we had a QB that sucked this bad the last few years

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/careerstats?id=MCN017517]Donovan McNabb: Career Stats[/url]

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Yeah McNabb sure looked shitty on that pass to Jackson vs us last year

Re: Report: JaMarcus Russell weighs 290 pounds
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;679600]It's actually much easier than that. Since McNabb has only one year left on his current contract, a team that trades for him will need to negotiate a new contract or an extension.

All Mcnabb has to do is not come to any agreement. Bingo, trade is nullified and McNabb stays in Philly.

As stated he doesn't have a no trade clause. [B]But with only one year remaining on his contract, he really is in the drivers seat [/B]as to where he ends up if traded.[/quote]

only having 1 year left could end up hurting him though if he's not moved this season. he will be a year older after the season, plus he could end up having a bad season or even worse, getting injured again.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=tryfuhl;679617]Yeah McNabb sure looked shitty on that pass to Jackson vs us last year[/quote]

Please. McNoodle has maybe 4 good passes a game. The rest are too high, or out of bounds.

Yeah take a look at his stats.... throwing the ball out of bounds is not a negative mark on his stats.

Look all I'm saying is he's not the McNabb of 4 or 5 yrs ago. He's had two yrs with bad injuries. He hardly runs out of the pocket and when he does it's sideline to sideline alot slower then he used to. He hardly runs down field any more. Maybe due to age. He's more of a pocket passer which has limited his threat ability. Basically he's easier to game plan around now vs. years ago.

and now your wanting him gone for Kolbe who is probably just as good and more upside because of health.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

He must be quite the magician to put up the numbers that he does with only 4 good passes per game. :doh:

He hasn't missed a significant amount of games since 2006.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If Philly trades McNabb this is the biggest gamble I can remember in a long long time with a team getting rid of such a franchise player who really means so much to that team over the last decade with all those playoff appearances. Other examples: Farve to me not as much, sense Aaron Rodgers has really stepped up and been a beast the last couple years, Moss leaving the Vikings, they were rebuilding and obviously have done well. Bledsoe leaving the Pats and Brady taking the reigns was a great move. Of course its not all about the QB, and I think Andy Reid is an over acheiving coach and has been awesome for Philly, but I think this is an extremely risky move to lose McNabb at this point. I wouldnt be for it if I was a filthy fan...

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

I just have to laugh at these Philly fans that are already booting McNabb out the door. They have no clue how lucky they've been to have a top notch QB all these years.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;679764]I just have to laugh at these Philly fans that are already booting McNabb out the door. They have no clue how lucky they've been to have a top notch QB all these years.[/quote]

yeah, McNabb has never really gotten the credit he deserves in Philly, probably would if they could've beaten NE in 05 super bowl. I think it's sad to see a player leave after being w/a team all of his 10+ years. Also think Philly is gambling a bit early on this.

Is Kolb a fa after this year? That would certainly put them in a dilemna a make more sense of trading McNabb if that's the case.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If I'm not mistaken, I think this is the last year for all 3 qbs.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;679764]I just have to laugh at these Philly fans that are already booting McNabb out the door. They have no clue how lucky they've been to have a top notch QB all these years.[/quote]

ive been scratching my head at all the philly fans hate towards mcnabb. maybe my view on him is different b/c i can remember so many games where he led an inept eagles team to victory over the skins for so many years. compared to our qbs like banks, weurfel, matthews, brunell, etc.

but i do assume they watch their team closer than i and know the little things mcnabb does. i remember watching an eagles game with some eagles fans, they were constanty saying he throws to many into the ground. that day, it did seem like a noticeable bit of his throws were off target or in the ground.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Seriously, they have no idea what it feels like to be searching for a QB for 15 years lol

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

He's definitely scattershot, but he's got a cannon. Dude can whip the ball down field. But from 5-15 yds away, his inaccuracy can be brutal.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

McNabb was a no-show for their "voluntary" workouts yesterday.



I'd love to see him go to Oakland:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-trippintuesday033010]Perfect partners for McNabb trade - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=over the mountain;679816]ive been scratching my head at all the philly fans hate towards mcnabb. maybe my view on him is different b/c i can remember so many games where he led an inept eagles team to victory over the skins for so many years. compared to our qbs like banks, weurfel, matthews, brunell, etc.

but i do assume they watch their team closer than i and know the little things mcnabb does. i remember watching an eagles game with some eagles fans, they were constanty saying he throws to many into the ground. that day, it did seem like a noticeable bit of his throws were off target or in the ground.[/quote]

i think philly fans just have different expectations. they've been a very very good team for a long time. they're frustrated they arent a great team and, as the face of the franchise, the QB takes the brunt of the criticism. By contrast, we've been putrid for decades. we just want to be respectable again.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;679764]I just have to laugh at these Philly fans that are already booting McNabb out the door. They have no clue how lucky they've been to have a top notch QB all these years.[/quote]I certainly think McNabb's better than many Philly fans want to give him credit for being, but I certainly wouldn't suggest that they've been any luckier at the Quarterback position than we have. They just simply know how to have a consistently successful passing game even with a Quarterback who makes a bunch of mistakes.

There's nothing Philly has done with their passing productivity that we should be jealous of or that we couldn't have replicated with the QBs we've had the last five or six years and a similar philosophy/attention to detail. It's the system they have in place that makes it obvious to point out that Kolb will likely be more successful than McNabb...the Steve Young to McNabb's Montana, if you will.

I mean, on one hand you can laugh at the Philly fans who don't understand that not every quarterback in the league can go in and provide what McNabb has for a decade, but speaking from a Redskins fans prospective doesn't exactly lend itself to credibility here. There's a sizable minority of Redskins fans that would be completely dumbstruck by the results of any objective analysis of Jason Campbell's career. Only three quarterbacks drafted since 2005 have accrued more passing DYAR than Campbell: Rodgers, Ryan, and Cutler, and none of those guys are more than a half season or so ahead of him at this point.

McNabb's been very good for a long time, but if he's not the future there, now is as good a time as any to make the switch.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=GTripp0012;679979]McNabb's been very good for a long time, but if he's not the future there, now is as good a time as any to make the switch.[/quote]

That's all you needed to say

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;679744]He must be quite the magician to put up the numbers that he does with only 4 good passes per game. :doh:

He hasn't missed a significant amount of games since 2006.[/quote]


Ok, I apologize. I may have exagerated my opinion. I feel exactly as Gtripp put it but I will add that my "opinion" is he is not as good as he was a few yrs ago. I (my opinion) think his talents are waning. Obviously due to age he's not going to get better and due to his injuries in his past he's less mobile. I'll also add that I think the Reid found a decent way to accentuate the positives in McNabb.

I personally have seen since his injury a couple of years ago (knee I think) he is more skitish in the pocket. The longer he has to hold the ball in the pocket the more skitish he gets.

This is my sole opinion. I didn't mean to say he sucks. I simply said I wish he would stay in Philli cause we knew what we had to go up against in Philli and the last few yrs we have not done bad even though we lost. In other words we came up with a good game plan against him. Kolbe is an unknown. Kolbe may be more mobile. Maybe have a stronger arm for he long ball. Maybe more accurate. Thats all I'm saying.

and.... if I had to pick between McNabb of today or Campbell I'd pick Campbell simply due to his age and health. If you are comparing JC to McNabb of early yrs then it's obvious I'd pick McNabb.

But when it comes to Philli I think its their system. One in which they have been in for several yrs. Plus it's a good system Reid is running. I think Kolbe will have a good showing if given the chance. Thats all.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Statistically:

McNabb;

TD's- 22
INT- 10
YRDS- 3,553
RTG- 92.9

JC;

TD's- 20
INT- 15
YRDS-3,618
RTG- 86.4

Funny, 2 less TD's and 5 more INT's gives you 6 more points in the ratings. :) JC even threw for more yrds. I guess the arguement is McNabb did better with less yrds. JC only threw for 65 more yrds though which could easily have been one play. Maybe two.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;680009]Statistically:

McNabb;

TD's- 22
INT- 10
YRDS- 3,553
RTG- 92.9

JC;

TD's- 20
INT- 15
YRDS-3,618
RTG- 86.4

Funny, 2 less TD's and 5 more INT's gives you 6 more points in the ratings. :) JC even threw for more yrds. I guess the arguement is McNabb did better with less yrds. JC only threw for 65 more yrds though which could easily have been one play. Maybe two.[/quote]

I like playing the stats game. :)


McNabb - 267/443, 60.3%, sacked 35 times, 140 rush yards
Campbell - 327/507, 64.5% sacked 43 times, 236 rush yards


JC - more accurate passer, better runner, despite having a far worse offensive line and no weapon like DeSean Jackson.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Buster;680018]I like playing the stats game. :)


McNabb - 267/443, 60.3%, sacked 35 times, 140 rush yards
Campbell - 327/507, 64.5% sacked 43 times, 236 rush yards


JC - more accurate passer, better runner, despite having a far worse offensive line and no weapon like DeSean Jackson.[/quote]

Accuracy doesn't always tell the whole story. Obviously one of the biggest criticism of JC is his lack of accuracy on the deep ball and a tendency to dump the ball off, leading to some to conclude that his stats are inflated. We'll see though as the line will be better this year and short of a great trade offer we'll keep him around.

Also you do see a lot of highlights with McNabb connecting on deep balls. Maybe it's a better supporting cast but I think a 4% difference in accuracy isn't enough to conclude that JC is much more accurate then McNabb.

Crap sorry for putting fuel on the JC fire in a non-JC thread.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=GTripp0012;679979]I certainly think McNabb's better than many Philly fans want to give him credit for being, but I certainly wouldn't suggest that they've been any luckier at the Quarterback position than we have. They just simply know how to have a consistently successful passing game [B]even with a Quarterback who makes a bunch of mistakes.[/B][/quote]

How so?

He sure doesn't throw a ton of picks, never has

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/careerstats?id=MCN017517]Donovan McNabb: Career Stats[/url]

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;680059]How so?

He sure doesn't throw a ton of picks, never has

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/careerstats?id=MCN017517"]Donovan McNabb: Career Stats[/URL][/quote]Mistakes of the game-management/missing opportunities to run, sort.

McNabb's mistakes are pretty similar to Campbell's mistakes. They'll both miss a wide open receiver every once in awhile (Campbell less frequently, if only because Redskins receivers are rarely open), and every once in awhile, both will lose track of the game situation.

But neither is going to kill you with a big interception, and that's where a lot of their joint value comes from.

I think in lowest INT rate (career), Neil O'Donnell is No. 1 and McNabb is No. 2. Or it used to be that way, at least.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;680036]Also you do see a lot of highlights with McNabb connecting on deep balls. Maybe it's a better supporting cast but I think a 4% difference in accuracy isn't enough to conclude that JC is much more accurate then McNabb.[/quote]A 4% difference is about a ball and a half difference per game, all else equal.

If McNabb were as accurate as Campbell's completion percentage suggests he is, I would estimate that's about 2 or 3 more touchdowns over the course of the season.

That's a big difference, all else equal. Granted, that doesn't cover the skill gap between Philadelphia's defense and say, our defense, but if McNabb was a career 63% passer, he'd be one of the most efficient players in NFL history. As is, he's been a quality player who dropped off from pro-bowl level after about his sixth year in the NFL, when he dropped from a 500-600 rushing yd/year guy to a 150ish rushing yard per year guy. I don't know if I'd consider being the third QB at this years' pro-bowl after Favre and Brees dropped an honor, but McNabb is still roughly the 6th best quarterback in his conference. Campbell, of course, would be the 7th.

A move to Kolb may just be the Eagles [I]hoping[/I] he can be Drew Brees or Kurt Warner in their offense (what he will have to be to represent an upgrade), but if they want to get the most out of guys like Jackson and Maclin, it almost has to be done. I don't think I'm expecting Kolb to upgrade their QB position, but the offense that Donovan once owned is pretty much long gone. He's merely the last holdover at this point.

Plus as strange as it sounds, Kolb probably offers a lot more value with his feet than McNabb does.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Buster;680018]I like playing the stats game. :)


McNabb - 267/443, 60.3%, sacked 35 times, 140 rush yards
Campbell - 327/507, 64.5% sacked 43 times, 236 rush yards


JC - more accurate passer, better runner, despite having a far worse offensive line and no weapon like DeSean Jackson.[/quote]


I'll admit I'm not the best stat player but I did get my info from the NFL.com. Looked each up and took their stats from their page.