Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;734664]Yes it does. If someone was going to get Jackson caught up it would have to be a player. The purpose of a suspension under the leagues personal conduct policy is to isolate a player from the team. Thats why they're not allowed to practice nor show up to the teams facilities while they're suspended. From what I understand, they can still stay in contact with their teammates and team doctors, but coaches are not allowed to talk to players serving suspensions.

Consider this, the Jets are currently being investigated because Rex Ryan visited Sanchez at an unofficial practice organized by Sanchez. The practice itself was legal but the coach being there was not. The NFL is very strict when it comes to matters like this.

Edit; Never mind. The terms of the suspension depends on the player and the nature of the crime. Santonio Holmes for example is simply banned from practice and regular season games. However he may participate in everything else. Ben Rothelisberger on the other hand is banned from the team facility.



After reading this it looks like Vincent Jackson is in the same boat as Big Ben.[/quote]

How can being a pothead not violate the personal conduct rules?

Oh well...

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=jsarno;734669]I think what everyone is failing to see is that I'm sure we are interested in V.Jackson, however, I am confident the Chargers are overpricing him. He doesn't appear to want to ever play for San Diego again, nor do they want to sign him...so [B]why would teams pay top dollar for a guy that will be released eventually?[/B] If San Diego really thinks he's that valuable, they should sign him.[/quote]

I'm glad you asked that question, so I'll tell you the answer. If a team's owner thinks that his team can win the Super Bowl this year and if that owner has said that his franchise is "going all in" to win it this year and if that team has a 41 years old QB who is likely to be playing his last season and if that team's leading receiver is coming off of injury and if that team's other big play threat at WR has a debilitating condition that could keep him on the bench for long stretches, then that team might want to make the move.

The team I'm referring to is the Vikings, of course. With VJ, Rice, Harvin, and Shiancoe, the Vikings might have enough receiving targets for Brett Farve to get them through.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Sidney Rice is aiming to be back by 17 Oct. VJ's first game would be the 11th of Oct. For that gain, is it worth a 2nd round pick to Minnesota? I just can't see it. If Rice's recovery isn't going well in the team's eyes then maybe it is, but I still would question it.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

If we make a play on VJ it will be for two reasons:

1) McNabb vouches for him. VJ & McNabb train together in the offseason in Arizona, so McNabb has a good read on whether or not he's a talent or just product of the system. Plus, McNabb and VJ already have chemistry, which leads me to point #2

2) Games #5 & 6 this year are against GB and Indy. Kinda would be nice to have VJ to kick that stretch off - and the timing works out great for us.

I'm all for signing him - if, and only if, we don't sell the farm for him. He should not get Top Tier WR money (a la Fitzgerald, Moss, etc...), but about $6-7M/year would be reasonable.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;734705]If we make a play on VJ it will be for two reasons:

1) McNabb vouches for him. VJ & McNabb train together in the offseason in Arizona, so McNabb has a good read on whether or not he's a talent or just product of the system. Plus, McNabb and VJ already have chemistry, which leads me to point #2

2) Games #5 & 6 this year are against GB and Indy. Kinda would be nice to have VJ to kick that stretch off - and the timing works out great for us.

I'm all for signing him - if, and only if, we don't sell the farm for him. [B]He should not get Top Tier WR money (a la Fitzgerald, Moss, etc...)[/B], but about $6-7M/year would be reasonable.[/quote]

Well San Diego thinks this too and this is the reason why he's holding out.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Man, getting him in a Redskins uni would be nice. We could use this guy for a multitude of reasons. I can justify the need for a WR of his caliber. Will be interesting to see if we make a play for him. As schefter stated on ESPN without trading VJ they will pick up a supp 3rd rounder, so why would they trade him for anything less.

Unfortunately the only way we get him is a min of a 2nd rounder. It seems like the same ol skins, but dam he would be a nice target for DM for the next 4 or 5 years.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Here is a decent article on the case against VJ for the Skins:
[url=http://fanspeak.com/steveospeak/2010/09/17/redskins-need-to-stay-away-from-vincent-jackson/]Redskins Need To Stay Away From Vincent Jackson | steveospeak[/url]

needless to say I disagree with most everything he says.

a few thoughts

How is the 2011 draft shaping up deeper than the 2010 draft? Not that this is central to his premise, but many top juniors came out last year due to the possibility of a new CBA that includes a salary cap, and many juniors this year may stay in that extra year, especially if a lockout or strike looks imminent in January when they have to decide. Further we already spent two 2nds on potential future top WR's(Kelly and Thomas) how has that worked out?
IF we worked out a deal that brought a 27 year old WR at the top of his game, and cost us only a 2nd (or better yet trade AH for someone else's 2nd) then why the heck wouldn't we make that deal.

Then he talks about how the strength of schedule argues against it, but clearly our WR's are a weakness, that isn't getting better without an infusion of talent. The delay factor would make sense, if we were choosing between an available player and VJ, but since the choices are status quo, or significant upgrade later in the season, the obvious choice would seem to be upgrade.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Shanahan has had to game plan against him in the past, so he probably has his own gauge as to whether or not Jackson is worth it. Jackson wants a payday, and there's no guarantee that he's not going to turn complacent after his payday.

For us, getting rid of the embarrassing and debilitating reputation the Redskins have had for that past decade as a place to "get paid well, but not necessarily win anything" is priority No.1 so players don't come here just to milk the money tree for all its worth and then leave a pile of crap behind them like many already have.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734738]Shanahan has had to game plan against him in the past, so he probably has his own gauge as to whether or not Jackson is worth it. Jackson wants a payday, and there's no guarantee that he's not going to turn complacent after his payday.

For us, getting rid of the embarrassing and debilitating reputation the Redskins have had for that past decade as a place to "get paid well, but not necessarily win anything" is priority No.1 so players don't come here just to milk the money tree for all its worth and then leave a pile of crap behind them like many already have.[/quote]

Personally, I see a lot of similarities between VJ and AH, hence my hesitation to go after him. I know he has a lot of talent, but I'm sure Vinny said the same thing when going after AH and disregarding the warning signs.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

If we do trade for him,hopefully all this time on getting a deal done is part of him extending his year & contract with the Redskins in negotiations...

So an agreed contract extension as part of the trade. We don't want to be in a 1 year deal and him walking after 1 season...

Maybe this helps speed up McNabb's 1 year deal left as well,knowing he has a pair of really good WR's..

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Not to mention VJ would have caught those end zone "over the top" fade routes that Armstrong missed twice...

What is VJ....6'5"?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=aceinthehouse;734743]not to mention vj would have caught those end zone "over the top" fade routes that armstrong missed twice...

What is vj....6'5"?[/quote]

6'10.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;734744]6'10.[/quote]

lol

Yes,Vincent jackson is taller than Manute Bol...

VJ is 7'9" talll...
get'm
championship!:food-smil

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=aceinthehouse;734743]Not to mention VJ would have caught those end zone "over the top" fade routes that Armstrong missed twice...

What is VJ....6'5"?[/quote]

No he wouldn't have, because he would have been sitting at home serving his 3-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Ruhskins;734748]No he wouldn't have, because he would have been sitting at home serving his 3-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy.[/quote]

This is true...
nice catch...(no pun intended)

But he can catch our fade routes against G.B. then...

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Yah, San Diego could care less about VJ because they have Legedu Naanee and Malcolm Floyd to replace him. Maybe we should emulate them. The NFL is a place where making decisions based on "intuitive risk-aversity", that is, going for something perceived as a "sure thing" over something risky, is likely to backfire because the "sure thing" is likely to fail itself, albeit at a lower rate than a rookie.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=aceinthehouse;734750]This is true...
nice catch...(no pun intended)

But he can catch our fade routes against G.B. then...[/quote]

I think Redskins fans that want to get VJ need to plead with AJ Smith to free Jackson. Smith is the roadblock to any trade IMO.

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734751]Yah, San Diego could care less about VJ because they have Legedu Naanee and Malcolm Floyd to replace him. Maybe we should emulate them. The NFL is a place where making decisions "intuitive risk-aversity", that is, going for something perceived as a "sure thing" over something risky, is likely to backfire because the "sure thing" is likely to fail itself, albeit at a lower rate than a rookie.[/quote]

Plus, Smith (Charger's GM) is trying to make an example out of VJ, so until he changes this attitude, VJ is not going anywhere.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Well,if they don't trade V-Jack by the deadline,then he will eventually just....walk at the end of the season and the chargers will get a 3rd round compensatory pick at the [B]HIGHEST[/B] for losing him.

They could franchise him and pay him top 5 WR Salary,but that wouldn't make since to keep him,when they could just give him a contract that would be cheaper in the 2011 season than a franchise tag...

So this means they have to deal him.
But they want more than the 3rd round copensatory pick they would get if he walked...

So a 3rd,4th and 5th..
or a 2nd...
or two 3rds

are better,than 1 3rd round pick.

There just trying to get the best offer in value for VJ...

Now I know,they can get [B]MORE[/B] than one 3rd rounder for VJ...

Shoot a 3rd and a 7th rounder,would be better than letting him go for just a 3rd...

And teams know this...
It's the chargers who are under the pressure of dealing him cause they have a Wednesday deadline...Their just trying to get as many and as best offers as possible.

It's an auction...

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

And we don't have a 3rd...we have a 1st and a 2nd and we aren't dealing that I'm betting...

So we are probably either offering multiple lower round picks for him........A 3-way deal that involves haynesworth and included other teams draft picks or picks in selective years that don't empty our draft selections for 2011. (like a 5th in 2011...and a 3rd in 2012 and so on)

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Yah, Eddie Royal was a 2nd round pick and Brandon Marshall was a 4th rounder.

And pissing on Armstrong after one game.

I'm glad ace is not a GM on any football team, except on an NFC East rival team.

Chargers may want to get as much value as they can, but why should a buyer cater to them in the first place? The buyer should be following his self-interest first and foremost.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I want this guy on the team so bad...he already has some familiarity with DMac...might as well pick him up if we don't sell the farm

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I love it... so we beat the Cowboys (much of the NFL analysts Superbowl pick) and we suck.... I don't get it.

All the D-apologists out there, we have a pretty damn good football team to.

Now I don;t know about many of the people on this board but if we can get off to a 3-0 or 2-1 start, we are theat much closer to being an even better team.

The defense is young as far as our scheme goes, our offense although it looked aenimic at times did some good stuff and has a chance to improve greatly in the coming weeks. I thought we did some good things running the ball in the fourth quarter and I think Dmac once he gets in a groove with this o could be great to... I am taking a wait and see approach, but I do not think people should short change this team just yet.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

RussellMania09
"Talked to a good source of info out in San Diego, says #Chargers want TWO 2nd round picks in consec. years, and they "want to win the deal"
about 2 hours ago via web"

Lol, good luck with that, if there's any truth to it. Maybe they should worry about selling out games before worrying about arbitrary wins.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;734781]RussellMania09
"Talked to a good source of info out in San Diego, says #Chargers want TWO 2nd round picks in consec. years, and they "want to win the deal"
about 2 hours ago via web"

Lol, good luck with that, if there's any truth to it. Maybe they should worry about selling out games before worrying about arbitrary wins.[/quote]

Lol. Boldin didn't even go for that much.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734784]Lol. Boldin didn't even go for that much.[/quote]

Am I wrong to picture AJ Smith looking like this in his San Diego office while sorting through trade offers for VJax?
[IMG]http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kufvnecrdB1qz9qooo1_400.jpg[/IMG]

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

No, no you are not. He must be f'n crazy to think teams will give away 2 second round picks for a guy who's another failed drug test away from being banned for a season (not sure what strike he's at yet, might be lower than that). I'd say hell no to that deal. We'll make do with what we have.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734763]Yah, Eddie Royal was a 2nd round pick and Brandon Marshall was a 4th rounder.

And pissing on Armstrong after one game.

I'm glad ace is not a GM on any football team, except on an NFC East rival team.

Chargers may want to get as much value as they can, but why should a buyer cater to them in the first place? The buyer should be following his self-interest first and foremost.[/quote]

If I were the GM on this team...we wouldn't even need VJ cause our WR core would already look like this...

TO=(FA)
S.Holmes=(5th rounder)
A.Boldin=(3rd & 4th and got 5th back)
P.Burress=(FA &work release program/community service) lol
S.Moss

lol
j/k
(BTW...draft picks are right above...dbl checked for what they paid)

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

The problem I have if we make a deal for VJ how many picks or player would we need to get him. I would consider a 3rd pick but I dont think we have 1 due to the McNabb trade. So I would give up our 2012 3rd pick, but not a 2nd rd pick. If we did get VJ he then would want to get a new contract and we know how that normally goes for us when we pay players big money. I say we offer a 3rd or 4th rd pick and thats it. VJ has been suspended by the league for his off the field conduct so that is a red flag in it's self. I rather ride out this season with the wr corp we have and find a wr via draft or free agenency. Good coaches find a way to use their players strength to help the team. DT is our most athletic WR so why not get him the ball with quick wr screens and some wr reverses. DT has to much ability not to be playing I do believe when he gets his turn he will make plays.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skins89moss;734847]The problem I have if we make a deal for VJ how many picks or player would we need to get him. I would consider a 3rd pick but I dont think we have 1 due to the McNabb trade. So [B]I would give up our 2012 3rd pick, but not a 2nd rd pick.[/B] If we did get VJ he then would want to get a new contract and we know how that normally goes for us when we pay players big money. I say we offer a 3rd or 4th rd pick and thats it. VJ has been suspended by the league for his off the field conduct so that is a red flag in it's self. I rather ride out this season with the wr corp we have and find a wr via draft or free agenency. Good coaches find a way to use their players strength to help the team. DT is our most athletic WR so why not get him the ball with quick wr screens and some wr reverses. DT has to much ability not to be playing I do believe when he gets his turn he will make plays.[/quote]

That would not get it done. I don't like the idea of standing pat but that may be our only reasonable option.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

2 seconds rounders? pfft..how about fat al and a handshake?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I'd rather suck it up and take our chances that one of the guys we have emerges rather than give away second round picks.

We can't give away those 2nd, 3rd, 4th round type picks. That's where the value is -- WRs like Steve Breaston, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith, all fall into that draft range. The trick is to load up your choices in the early-to-middle parts of the draft.

It's funny that we were finally able to do that in the 08 draft with three second round picks. But only Vinny could whiff on 2 out of 3 those.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734860][B]I'd rather suck it up and take our chances that one of the guys we have emerges rather than give away second round picks.[/B]

We can't give away those 2nd, 3rd, 4th round type picks. That's where the value is -- WRs like Steve Breaston, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith, all fall into that draft range. The trick is to load up your choices in the early-to-middle parts of the draft.

It's funny that we were finally able to do that in the 08 draft with three second round picks. But only Vinny could whiff on 2 out of 3 those.[/quote]
Yo'....

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Beemnseven;734860]I'd rather suck it up and take our chances that one of the guys we have emerges rather than give away second round picks.

We can't give away those 2nd, 3rd, 4th round type picks. That's where the value is -- WRs like Steve Breaston, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith, all fall into that draft range. The trick is to load up your choices in the early-to-middle parts of the draft.

It's funny that we were finally able to do that in the 08 draft with three second round picks. But only Vinny could whiff on 2 out of 3 those.[/quote]

DeSean Jackson, Eddie Royal(Shanahan-nabbed).

And draft picks fail often. Vinny isn't alone in that regard.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734864]DeSean Jackson, Eddie Royal(Shanahan-nabbed).

And draft picks fail often. Vinny isn't alone in that regard.[/quote]

Brandon Marshall too. 4th round pick.

And yes, I know Vinny Cerrato hasn't been the only one to bust on draft picks. That wasn't my point. The one time where he got the strategy right -- stocking up in the second round (or 3rd or 4th) -- Vinny still managed to miss on two out of three. And it could be 3 out of 3 if they can't find a way to work Fred Davis in more.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

And rate of success for those 2nd round picks are different from others how? Besides, I consider Casserly to be the better fit of a GM who is "master of strategy, but is atotally lame talent evaluator".

If anything, blame Zorn for his advice in "needing" a big receiver and the bullshit wisdom of "we already have this dude(Moss), so we don't need that dude(Royal, Jackson)".

And the Packers also had three second rounders. One is likely to pan out for them(Jordy Nelson), one died(Brohm), and one is still unknown due to injury(Patrick Lee).

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

When did brohm die?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;734886]When did brohm die?[/quote]

Metaphor and hyperbole for a QB who's utter suck. He'll be joining Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf soon. He's a Bill...for now.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[QUOTE=SirClintonPortis;734884]If anything, blame Zorn for his advice in "needing" a big receiver and the bullshit wisdom of "we already have this dude(Moss), so we don't need that dude(Royal, Jackson)".
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure that's fair -- I don't think it was just Zorn that wanted a big receiver. It was almost everyone on this board, the media, and pretty much everyone that was complaining we didn't have a tall target for the endzone. Sure, in hindsight Desean Jackson is a beast -- but no need to trash Zorn for missing on him.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;734884][B]And rate of success for those 2nd round picks are different from others how?[/B] Besides, I consider Casserly to be the better fit of a GM who is "master of strategy, but is atotally lame talent evaluator".

If anything, blame Zorn for his advice in "needing" a big receiver and the bullshit wisdom of "we already have this dude(Moss), so we don't need that dude(Royal, Jackson)".

And the Packers also had three second rounders. One is likely to pan out for them(Jordy Nelson), one died(Brohm), and one is still unknown due to injury(Patrick Lee).[/quote]

sigh ... I never said anything about the success rate of second round picks. And I never said that 2nd round picks are all locks. All I said was that the one time we got the strategy right, i.e. stocking up on as many picks as you can between the second and 4th rounds, Vinny still found a way to whiff on 2, possibly all three of the picks in the second round.

Gee whiz, man. Forget it. Forget I said it... :doh:

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=ethat001;734888]I'm not sure that's fair -- I don't think it was just Zorn that wanted a big receiver. [B]It was almost everyone on this board, the media, and pretty much everyone that was complaining we didn't have a tall target for the endzone. [/B] Sure, in hindsight Desean Jackson is a beast -- but no need to trash Zorn for missing on him.[/quote]

Agreed. There are so many good wideouts that have done really well that are around the six-feet range.

Are they fast, can they get separation and run precise routes should be the first questions about any wideout. Not, "how tall are they?"