Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770061]Mistake 3: [U]Not going after Houshmenzadeh or R. Moss when they were available and dirt cheap[/U]. We could have had them BOTH... these guys could've help evaluate McNabb ([U]taking away the whole "he had no weapons" excuse... imagine Santana & Randy Moss on the outside, Housh in the slot, with Cooley & F. Davis as your TEs[/U])[/quote]Those two have been great this year.

I'm imagining our offense without Anthony Armstrong's contribution. It isn't pretty.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770061]My take on Mike Shanahan is pretty clear... He is 100% ANTI "Superstar"... anti-"Special Treatment"

... meaning, he doesn't even entertain the idea of someone getting superstar treatment or being "grandfathered" in to leeway. Either you practice 100%, perform well, or you are sat down.

He's not going to budge at all to meet common ground or give in at all to a player.

That I can respect a little... but at the same time...

He has made some of the craziest bone-headed moves I could have imagined.

Mistake 1: 3-4 defense. If he evaluated the Skins at all last year he'd have known that we had the pieces for a 4-3... with some of our absolute best players thriving in it. And not just Haynesworth, but he, Carter, and Rak all used properly in the 4-3 may have helped us win at least 1 or 2 more games this year IMO.

Mistake 2: Benching McNabb vs Lions wasn't the mistake... it's how he handled it after that was... whoa dumb.

Mistake 3: Not going after Houshmenzadeh or R. Moss when they were available and dirt cheap. We could have had them BOTH... these guys could've help evaluate McNabb (taking away the whole "he had no weapons" excuse... imagine Santana & Randy Moss on the outside, Housh in the slot, with Cooley & F. Davis as your TEs)

Mistake 4: Benching McNabb right now. Everyone knows Grossman & Beck are not future Super Bowl winning QBs and now all we've done is ruin trade value we had for McNabb. If he's not your guy... fine... but whew... dumb.[/quote]

#1: Do you really think going back to a 4-3 with the same players would make that much of a difference? Just line up Carter, AH, Golston, Orakpo along the front four; with Alexander, Fletch, and McIntosh back at LB and we'd be back in the top 10 defensively? I don't. Something happened with this group of players -- and we know that because they still play in 4-3 alignments. It didn't matter what the scheme was.

#2: Okay, so it was a public relations mishap. Shanny said the wrong things. And? So what? Might as well get used to this head coach being especially cryptic about the information he's willing to release.

#3: Point taken. Housh would have been nice. Randy Moss? Ehh. Not so much.

#4: I don't know what sort of trade value McNabb would have been worth even if he played the rest of the season out. He wasn't doing well. No matter what we would have been looking at a 5th - 7th round pick in the best of circumstances.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770079]#1: Do you really think going back to a 4-3 with the same players would make that much of a difference? Just line up Carter, AH, Golston, Orakpo along the front four; with Alexander, Fletch, and McIntosh back at LB and we'd be back in the top 10 defensively? I don't. Something happened with this group of players -- and we know that because they still play in 4-3 alignments. It didn't matter what the scheme was.[/quote]Agreed, an above average 4-3 defense requires, necessarily, a career-type year from AH. That's a HUGE assumption given where he is now that all we needed to do was stay in the 4-3 on RUNNING downs, and Albert would have terrorized quarterbacks while keeping blockers off of Fletcher better than Ma'ake and Golston (who would have been the DTs) have.

The defense failed because we weren't able to adequately replace Haynesworth's 2009 contributions. Assuming that a 40 front would have made the entire problem with AH disappear is to misunderstand both the Shanahan-Haynesworth dynamic and the natural aging of defensive players.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I think they both are still damn good receivers when in a halfway decent situation, yes. So they aren't being used or targeted much where they are right now....

R. Moss last year - 83 catches, 1,264 yds, 13 TDs. Please save any "he's a year older" or "that was with Brady" stuff... Those numbers mean he can still get it done in the right situation. Bottom line... Do I think he's better than Anthony Armstrong as a #2 receiver? ... umm, yes.

Housh - A minimum of 904 yds receiving per season over the past 6 years with sub-par QBs (IMO). If you want to try and tell me that Housh is a worse option than Roydell Williams or Joey Galloway at the #3 or slot position... please go ahead.

You, and everyone else, knows what I was getting at... I clearly stated that these guys would help evaluate our QB... I didn't say... "TJ Whoseyourmomma... Championship!"

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;770032]I'd be interested in seeing what Orton gets as a Free Agent.

On another note we better pray that Andrew Luck ends up in the AFC. It's already a pain knowing we're going to have to deal with the likes of Ryan and Bradford for the next 10 to 15 years. I'd hate to throw Luck into that mix as well. I mean who is going to pass up an accurate strong arm QB with an ideal build that works hard and plays well in high pressure situations.

[/quote]

I think Carolina's got the fast track on getting Luck, simply because they have a legit shot at not winning another game the rest of the season and if that happens they've got the first pick. Fox will be gone next season and you can bet that w/e head coach they bring in will be tailored to help Luck become a franchise quarterback. This is what happens when the NFC is consistently the worse conference over the better part of a decade, eventually the balance of power will shift over to the NFC like it did to the AFC after the NFC's dominance over the 80's and 90's.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770083]I think they both are still damn good receivers when in a halfway decent situation, yes. So they aren't being used or targeted much where they are right now....

R. Moss last year - 83 catches, 1,264 yds, 13 TDs. Please save any "he's a year older" or "that was with Brady" stuff... Those numbers mean he can still get it done in the right situation. Bottom line... Do I think he's better than Anthony Armstrong as a #2 receiver? ... umm, yes.

Housh - A minimum of 904 yds receiving per season over the past 6 years with sub-par QBs (IMO). If you want to try and tell me that Housh is a worse option than Roydell Williams or Joey Galloway at the #3 or slot position... please go ahead.

You, and everyone else, knows what I was getting at... I clearly stated that these guys would help evaluate our QB... I didn't say... "TJ Whoseyourmomma... Championship!"[/quote]Both are better options at the no. 3 receiver than we currently have. But why bring guys in here to play once or twice per offensive series? The difference between Roydell Williams and T.J. Houshmandzadeh in a third down receiver role isn't even a half point per game. But to get that improvement, you have to overpay the receiver by nearly five million, give him a roster spot guarantee, and make him happy in his role.

Changing the team culture doesn't mean overpay a receiver for incredibly limited performance. Sometimes, it's better to save the money and have the lesser performer as the third down receiver. I think this is one of those times.

Having Joey Galloway make this team was ridiculous though.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mooby;770084]I think Carolina's got the fast track on getting Luck, simply because they have a legit shot at not winning another game the rest of the season and if that happens they've got the first pick. Fox will be gone next season and you can bet that w/e head coach they bring in will be tailored to help Luck become a franchise quarterback. This is what happens when the NFC is consistently the worse conference over the better part of a decade, eventually the balance of power will shift over to the NFC like it did to the AFC after the NFC's dominance over the 80's and 90's.[/quote]Carolina is going to get Luck if he comes out, no doubt. But he's a 21 year old kid who would be passing up a legitimate shot to win the national championship to go first overall in a year where he doesn't even get to read the CBA under which he will sign his contract before he declares. That's a terrible deal for the kid.

His major is architectural design at Stanford. You don't study that for three years to decide to get your degree later. Just saying.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770087]Carolina is going to get Luck if he comes out, no doubt. But he's a 21 year old kid who would be passing up a legitimate shot to win the national championship to go first overall in a year where he doesn't even get to read the CBA under which he will sign his contract before he declares. That's a terrible deal for the kid.

His major is architectural design at Stanford. You don't study that for three years to decide to get your degree later. Just saying.[/quote]

Very true. It all depends on Luck coming out no doubt. He seems like a very smart kid, but you never know, he's going to have to make a decision, which is either stay in school to get his degree, or go pro and make a lot of bank as the first overall pick. It just depends on what he wants more. But I have no doubt he'd be the first overall pick if he went out, because both Carolina and Cincy want a franchise quarterback (back in 2005 I never would've envisioned saying that about Cincy lol).

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I'll predict that Carolina passes on the opportunity to draft Ryan Mallett, taking instead A.J. Green first overall. Mallett gets drafted by the Bengals at no. 2.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770079]#1: Do you really think going back to a 4-3 with the same players would make that much of a difference? Just line up Carter, AH, Golston, Orakpo along the front four; with Alexander, Fletch, and McIntosh back at LB and we'd be back in the top 10 defensively? I don't. Something happened with this group of players -- and we know that because they still play in 4-3 alignments. It didn't matter what the scheme was.

#2: Okay, so it was a public relations mishap. Shanny said the wrong things. And? So what? Might as well get used to this head coach being especially cryptic about the information he's willing to release.

#3: Point taken. Housh would have been nice. Randy Moss? Ehh. Not so much.

#4: I don't know what sort of trade value McNabb would have been worth even if he played the rest of the season out. He wasn't doing well. No matter what we would have been looking at a 5th - 7th round pick in the best of circumstances.[/quote]

#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.

#2: He TWICE fumbled with an excuse. It put a huge dent into the whole "new regime, new attitude... out with dysfunction, in with professionalism." For a guy who expects his players to be stand up, stand behind your work guys... then shouldn't he? If he was disappointed in McNabb's play, just say so... why go with 2-minute offense and cardiac endurance craziness?

#3: Explained in my other post.. Do I think he'd be better than Armstrong... especially when Armstrong is mostly used for deep passes... yes. Just my opinion.

#4: I think if they know he doesn't fit what they want to do and they want to go in a different direction, then you play him... hope he plays well enough over the last 3 games that between the Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos, Titans, etc there could have been SOME competition to drum up trade value is all I am saying. Evaluate Grossman & Beck? Do you honestly think either will be our starting QB in 2012?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;770051][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/17/donovan-mcnabb-very-disappointed-i-strongly-disagree/"]Donovan McNabb “very disappointed,” “I strongly disagree” | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

Interesting snippet from that article:

[I]Wilbon, who made no pretense of objectivity as he ripped into Shanahan, said that McNabb has no ill will toward [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2450"]Rex Grossman[/URL], who has replaced him as the starter. In fact, [B]Wilbon claims that one of the things McNabb is upset about is that Shanahan waited until after Thursday’s practice to make the move, depriving Grossman of the opportunity to work with the first-string offense on Wednesday and Thursday.[/B][/I]

Gotta agree with DM on that one. If you're gonna make the move, and you supposedly were considering it before last week's game as well, why not just insert Grossman at the start of this week's preparation for Dallas? Was DM so bad in this week of practice that he'd make this switch two days before the game without giving Grossman a full week of snaps with the first team?

Shanahan looks bad.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770092]#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.[/quote]32nd is a really poor estimation of where our defense is right now. It implies that Houston, Jacksonville, Dallas, Denver, and Seattle are better right now on that side of the ball. They aren't.

I'd say, with our injuries and all, we're right about as strong of a defense as New England is. They don't rank very well either. 27th I think, by total yards against. I think that's a good estimation of where our defense is by production.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I just cant believe the mess ShanaASS has made of skins.I hope Snyder fires him after the season,theres no way anybody could be worse.But with the lockout looming along with ShanaASS's contract dont see it happening.Probably keep Haslett also.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770083]I think they both are still damn good receivers when in a halfway decent situation, yes. So they aren't being used or targeted much where they are right now....

R. Moss last year - 83 catches, 1,264 yds, 13 TDs. Please save any "he's a year older" or "that was with Brady" stuff... Those numbers mean he can still get it done in the right situation. Bottom line... Do I think he's better than Anthony Armstrong as a #2 receiver? ... umm, yes.

Housh - A minimum of 904 yds receiving per season over the past 6 years with sub-par QBs (IMO). If you want to try and tell me that Housh is a worse option than Roydell Williams or Joey Galloway at the #3 or slot position... please go ahead.

You, and everyone else, knows what I was getting at... I clearly stated that these guys would help evaluate our QB... I didn't say... "TJ Whoseyourmomma... Championship!"[/quote]

The receiving corps is not the problem here. If McNabb was the QB we thought he was we would easily be putting up more then 20 points a game. The receivers aren't the ones that throwing behind themselves or throwing balls into the dirt nor are they throwing into traffic at inopportune times. They also aren't overthrowing or under throwing themselves on potential big plays.

Face it we're not going to have an offensive line made up of 5 first and second round picks nor are we going to be able to compliment them with two 1,000 yard receivers and a pro bowl tight end. Moss, Armstrong, Cooley, Davis is a more then suitable receiving corps for a pro bowl QB. Certainly better than most of the groups McNabb played with during his pro bowl years in Philly.

Who is Tom Brady's best receiver? Dieon Branch? What about Peyton Manning outside of Reggie Wayne these days? Piere Garcon? And by the way where's Peytons offensive line made up of first and second round picks?

Big Ben is making the Steelers offense go with Mike Wallace as the main option. His other two options an injury prone Heath Miller (who's not as good as Cooley) and an aging Hines Ward. His offensive line is made up of a 1st round rookie, a 2nd round pick (Flozell Adams), a 5th round pick, a 6th round pick, and a 24 year old undrafted free agent.

Who's Matt Cassel throwing to after Dwayne Bowe? Tony Moeaki? By the way Cassel is currently being protected by three guys who were undrafted free agents (ages 33, 37, and 29), a fifth round pick and one first round pick (a converted guard playing LT).

Matt Ryan only has Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez (not as good as Cooley these days) to throw to. Matt Jenkins is decent but even if he had played in all 16 games he would still have less yards then our own Anthony Armstrong. His line, an injury prone first round LT, a 2nd round pick, 2 undrafted free agents, and a 7th round pick.

Quality along the offensive line (in fact I hope they find a guy that fits their system in the second round during this years upcoming draft) and depth in the receiving corps is important but if a QB is good you're going to see it.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770092]#1: Completely disagree. Name ONE TIME when we had the front 7 you described for an entire game this season. I know when Haynesworth WAS in the game in 4-3 setups he was dominating as always. I don't remember any time where Rak, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter were on the line at the same time. And you think our defense would be worse than 32nd in the league, which we are?? Allowing 135 rushing yards and 260 passing yards a game while allowing 23.8 points per?? That's 23 more rushing and 53 more passing yards per game compared to last year. We also have allowed the most 10+ play drives in the NFL. As Keyshawn would say... "Come on, man!" I am not saying we'd have been top 10... why are you jumping from 32nd to top 10? I'd be happy with 15th right now. We'll just disagree on that one.

#2: He TWICE fumbled with an excuse. It put a huge dent into the whole "new regime, new attitude... out with dysfunction, in with professionalism." For a guy who expects his players to be stand up, stand behind your work guys... then shouldn't he? If he was disappointed in McNabb's play, just say so... why go with 2-minute offense and cardiac endurance craziness?

#3: Explained in my other post.. Do I think he'd be better than Armstrong... especially when Armstrong is mostly used for deep passes... yes. Just my opinion.

#4: I think if they know he doesn't fit what they want to do and they want to go in a different direction, then you play him... hope he plays well enough over the last 3 games that between the Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos, Titans, etc there could have been SOME competition to drum up trade value is all I am saying. Evaluate Grossman & Beck? Do you honestly think either will be our starting QB in 2012?[/quote]

The tumble we took defensively was going to happen regardless of how we lined up. I've argued that for weeks now. It's the same players, they're just in different spots. In fact, I've read that we've only been in the 3-4 about 30% of the time. Outside of Orakpo, Landry and Fletch, the guys we have in the front 7 just aren't very good.

Again, I won't argue with you about what Shanny said or shouldn't have said. That's his m.o. and you might as well get used to it. He's not a coach who is going to write a tell-all for every press conference he gives.

And I don't know who our starting QB will be next year. McNabb wasn't playing well, so he got benched. It happens with every other position on the field, but somehow, if it happens to the quarterback, people have a conniption fit.

It didn't work out with McNabb. Sucks, but oh well. I'd rather it go this way than to hang on forever hoping against hope that your guy will work out. We should be thankful Shanny isn't as stubborn as others might have been.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

How about this...

* Our defense has been great this year... huge improvement from 2009 in the 4-3.
* Randy Moss is a worse WR than Anthony Armstrong.
* Housh & Moss were given huge contracts with their new teams. (I could've SWORN they both got vet mins after being released... looked it up... umm yep that is fact... but eh... who cares about that?).
* Mike Shanahan's handling of McNabb's benching against Detroit wasn't too much of a mess.

You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;770093]Interesting snippet from that article:

[I]Wilbon, who made no pretense of objectivity as he ripped into Shanahan, said that McNabb has no ill will toward [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2450"]Rex Grossman[/URL], who has replaced him as the starter. In fact, [B]Wilbon claims that one of the things McNabb is upset about is that Shanahan waited until after Thursday’s practice to make the move, depriving Grossman of the opportunity to work with the first-string offense on Wednesday and Thursday.[/B][/I]

Gotta agree with DM on that one. If you're gonna make the move, and you supposedly were considering it before last week's game as well, why not just insert Grossman at the start of this week's preparation for Dallas? Was DM so bad in this week of practice that he'd make this switch two days before the game without giving Grossman a full week of snaps with the first team?

Shanahan looks bad.[/quote]

Feels more like he's trying to secure a high draft slot. Which is a good sign. Maybe we'll finally get our rebuilding project. Just pray it doesn't turn out like the 49er's.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770098]How about this...

* Our defense has been great this year... huge improvement from 2009 in the 4-3.
* Randy Moss is a worse WR than Anthony Armstrong.
* Housh & Moss were given huge contracts with their new teams. (I could've SWORN they both got vet mins after being released... looked it up... umm yep that is fact... but eh... who cares about that?).
* Mike Shanahan's handling of McNabb's benching against Detroit wasn't too much of a mess.

You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.[/quote]Since when is telling someone they are wrong out of line on a discussion board? If you just want to feel warm and fuzzy about your beliefs, then not posting them is the best way to ensure that.

There's not even great evidence that you are wrong, re: our defense, as our run defense ranking is down significantly from last year while our pass defense...is similar. That was supposed to be a positive trade-off, but there's been no trade. It's just been a decline in run defense. The trade off has been less pass rush for better coverage, instead of better coverage for less run defense. That suggests a problem in the personnel on the front.

I can assure you those problems are named McIntosh, Golston, and Kemoeatu, and Orakpo is a liability against the run who was protected by the scheme last year. We have more blockers on Fletcher right now than ever before. That can be blamed on the 3-4, but independent of scheme, I'm looking at McIntosh and Golston and Kemo not doing their jobs in any scheme. Gap defense is gap defense. If we're bad at it, we're bad at it. Doesn't matter where you stand before the play, you need to control your gap.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;770098]
You know... I think... after a while.... it's really idiotic to argue OPINIONS. They are opinions. When someone other than yourself puts them on a message board... do you have to try and prove them wrong? Is that what a message board is? I thought I was just venting my opinion... didn't realize this was a place to attempt to act like the smartest football evaluator in the history of man.... maybe my idea of a fan message board is all wrong.... I guess I'll stand corrected.[/quote]

if we all just posted our opinions without having to ever defend them this would just be a blog basically. This is a place to share your opinions and hear others that may or may not agree with you. You have the full right to vent your opinion as others do too. Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily make your opinion wrong or right

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Btw where has Aceinthehouse been?? He hasn't said much as of late

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Losing faith in Shanahan very quickly. He seems like a very egomanical control freak with all his game playing/ He says he is going to be honest with McNabb as he moves forward with the qb evaluation. When has Shanahan been honest with anyone this year? I am weary of the mess that is the Redskins.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;770106]Btw where has Aceinthehouse been?? He hasn't said much as of late[/quote]

Doesn't have much to say I suppose.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Not usually a fan of Matt Mosley at espn but he said McNabb will be fine in either Minnesota or Arizona but with Shanahan at the helm of the Redskins we cannot be so sure we will be. I think he may be right on this point.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I can live with Shanny's demotion of McNabb. He wants to see if Rex can run the offense and perhaps be a bridge to our next drafted QB. I get that. His style may rub players the wrong way but if he gets us into the playoffs by 2012-then that's fine by me. He is not a coach who is going to bend his system to his players. It's going to be the other way around. Time will tell if that philosophy works or not.

However, Shanny the GM needs to be held accountable for the 2nd and 4th that he gave up for a one year McNabb rental. That's a Cerratoesque mistake. With this team needing players in almost every position--he can't afford to have misses like this.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=NYCSkin;770114]I can live with Shanny's demotion of McNabb. He wants to see if Rex can run the offense and perhaps be a bridge to our next drafted QB. I get that. His style may rub players the wrong way but if he gets us into the playoffs by 2012-then that's fine by me. He is not a coach who is going to bend his system to his players. It's going to be the other way around. Time will tell if that philosophy works or not.

However, Shanny the GM needs to be held accountable for the 2nd and 4th that he gave up for a one year McNabb rental. That's a Cerratoesque mistake. With this team needing players in almost every position--he can't afford to have misses like this.[/quote]Best 150 word summary of the situation yet.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I think what I am thinking is:

we havent had a real football [B]team[/B] in DC since Marty left. That was the last time I really felt good about the skins direction as an organization. What I remember from that season was - Darrell Green being called out in Training camp and unhappy vets.

Since then it has been the just a couple of players away mentality.

We havent been able to get a plan together and stick to it long enough to make progress. Saint Joe came back to save the franchise, not (and there is a HUGE difference) to be the best coach he could be. Not that he didnt try relly hard, he just wasnt as commited as he was the first time. OBC and Zorny were horrid and out of thier league...now we have a legit coach who is still very hungry after being canned in Denver. Not that different than Marty.

I guess what I am saying is - this might be the "breaking" we need. This might be the event that really starts to clear the roster and change the culture of the team. I know that right now it looks and effing feels like the same old BS we have lived with....except one thing; as far as I can tell this is based on performance. I am actually glad we are evaluating for next year.

I am however well aware and gunshy of our last 8 years of clownassery that has put us in this position. As the eternal skins optomist I am actually pleased. as a realist I am dreading what this will lead to.

This drivel is what being a skins fan has reduced me to

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

If only we could have hired Harbaugh instead of Shanahan.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Kope;770118]I think what I am thinking is:

we havent had a real football [B]team[/B] in DC since Marty left. That was the last time I really felt good about the skins direction as an organization. What I remember from that season was - Darrell Green being called out in Training camp and unhappy vets.

Since then it has been the just a couple of players away mentality.

We havent been able to get a plan together and stick to it long enough to make progress. Saint Joe came back to save the franchise, not (and there is a HUGE difference) to be the best coach he could be. Not that he didnt try relly hard, he just wasnt as commited as he was the first time. OBC and Zorny were horrid and out of thier league...now we have a legit coach who is still very hungry after being canned in Denver. Not that different than Marty.

I guess what I am saying is - this might be the "breaking" we need. This might be the event that really starts to clear the roster and change the culture of the team. I know that right now it looks and effing feels like the same old BS we have lived with....except one thing; as far as I can tell this is based on performance. I am actually glad we are evaluating for next year.

I am however well aware and gunshy of our last 8 years of clownassery that has put us in this position. As the eternal skins optomist I am actually pleased. as a realist I am dreading what this will lead to.

This drivel is what being a skins fan has reduced me to[/quote]

The only problem with this is that grabbing McNabb was the new FO's own prerogative.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;769707]Between the week 8 benching in Detroit, the piss poor clock management, the Haynesworth ordeal, and now this, I'd say they already look like idiots. And according to Kelli Johnson, MS has lost the locker room.

Sweet. Our latest "savior" only took 13 weeks to lose the team.

I'm beside myself right now. This is just the cherry on top of a blunder-filled season.[/quote]

Don't worry about Shanny losing the locker room cause next year it wont be many of the same players coming back.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;769722]I don't like this move.

But.

If this is a lost season, and obviously it is. We might as well see what everyone brings to the table in live games. That said, Rabach ought not start either.

I am a Skins fan, but they sure make it hard to be.[/quote]

Don't worry about this qb move remember it's a business. I guess Philly got thhe better of the trade with a 2nd possible 3rd or 4th pick this season. Oh wait Philly gets a 3rd rd pick if McNabb meets a clause in the trade, could that be 1 reason we sit Mcnabb so Philly gets the 4th rd pick. The Saints would get our 3rd pick if Philly gets the 4th. Either way if McNabb does not come back next season what a waste of draft picks. Should have just sucked it up with JC 1 more year. Keep the faith it has to get better HTTR

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skins89moss;770122] Keep the faith it has to get better HTTR[/quote]

Amen brother. HTTR

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Many of the top coaches run their teams like Shanny is now. He is looking for the most prefessional and devotred players to play for his team.

Patriots
Steelers
Colts

All of these teams run the same way, and Shanny is doing no different in Washington. It's his way! To many times have we brought Vets in here to collect paychecks on the low end of their career.

We had a chance to bring a known great QB from our OWN division, and we made a move on him. We gave up some picks because what else did we have to offer that the eagles wanted? We have little talent on both sides of the ball, and are ina big rebuilding stage.

Shanny is looking for devoted players who are here to help build a TEAM. Not just a bunch of broken down vets. Mcnabb didn't work out, and now we move on.. Shit happens.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Rex does this week. It can't get any worse then what we've already seen? I was watching the breakdown of film on NFL.com and saw how many open WR Mcnabb has been missing all year. He missed a wide open Moss in the endzone last week and foreced a low pass into double coverage instead. He wasn't doing that shit in Philly.. He can't learn the offense, and Rex thinks he can.

Give Rex a shot, and let's see what he can do. We are 5-8... Not 8-5

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Maybe we will see this Rex on Sunday!


[YT][ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_B_yKbNSX0]YouTube - My Rex Grossman Tribute/Highlight Video[/ame][/YT]

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;770106]Btw where has Aceinthehouse been?? He hasn't said much as of late[/quote]

I heard when the Skins started losing big in the second half of the season it made him take a step back and reevaluate his 14-2 prediction, and that once he did he realized his only course of action was to become a Buddhist Monk and join a monestary. He changed his name to mona-muananunana and devoted his life to Buddha.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Bucket;770124]Many of the top coaches run their teams like Shanny is now. He is looking for the most prefessional and devotred players to play for his team.

Patriots
Steelers
Colts

[/quote]

Patriots I can kind of see the parallels. The Steelers to. However I have no idea how you came up with the Colts who up until recently have been run by mild mannered Tony Dungy and since then has been replaced by soft spoken Jim Caldwell.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

This is a brilliant move.Why take a chance on getting DM hurt if we are trying to trade him.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Bigreds77;770132]This is a brilliant move.Why take a chance on getting DM hurt if we are trying to trade him.[/quote]

Mainly to preserve any trade value that McNabb might grant us. In that case there's to schools of thought with teams that might potentially be interested in McNabb. The first school says we should wait for him to be released and then proceed to attempt and sign him as a free agent. The other school says we have no chance if we have to compete on a level playing field with other teams for his services, ergo we need to attempt and trade for him before he hits free agency.

As long as you have teams in the latter you will have trade value for McNabb but benching him leads other teams to believe that you will release him if all else fails which drives down the asking price towards teams willing to deal. Then again the benching might lead other teams to believe they have a shot at dealing for him in the first place.

Either way I think Sally Jenkins summed it up best in that the benching lets us see not only what we have in our other QB's but also a chance to find out if McNabb is the source of our offensive woe's. Obviously if the offensive starts playing well without McNabb than we know that the QB is at fault for our measly 18.3 points per game.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Kope;770118]I think what I am thinking is:

we havent had a real football [B]team[/B] in DC since Marty left. That was the last time I really felt good about the skins direction as an organization. What I remember from that season was - Darrell Green being called out in Training camp and unhappy vets.

Since then it has been the just a couple of players away mentality.

We havent been able to get a plan together and stick to it long enough to make progress. Saint Joe came back to save the franchise, not (and there is a HUGE difference) to be the best coach he could be. Not that he didnt try relly hard, he just wasnt as commited as he was the first time. OBC and Zorny were horrid and out of thier league...now we have a legit coach who is still very hungry after being canned in Denver. Not that different than Marty.

[B]I guess what I am saying is - this might be the "breaking" we need. This might be the event that really starts to clear the roster and change the culture of the team. [/B]I know that right now it looks and effing feels like the same old BS we have lived with....except one thing; as far as I can tell this is based on performance. I am actually glad we are evaluating for next year.

I am however well aware and gunshy of our last 8 years of clownassery that has put us in this position. As the eternal skins optomist I am actually pleased. as a realist I am dreading what this will lead to.

This drivel is what being a skins fan has reduced me to[/quote]

Very well said. This team needs a fanny-paddling in a fierce way.

For everyone who's "losing faith" in Shanahan, I wonder ... would you seriously prefer to see him fired, keep the locker room intact, and start over [I]again[/I] next year with the same players but yet another head coach? Outside of Dan Snyder, there's been one constant for the past 5-6 years or so -- and that's a core of players that has never really lived up to expectations. We have few players who are young with a lot of potential, (Landry, Orakpo, Torain) but apart from them, it's time to move on ...

Everybody else? If he's "lost them," so be it.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;770133][B]Mainly to preserve any trade value that McNabb might grant us. [/B]In that case there's to schools of thought with teams that might potentially be interested in McNabb. The first school says we should wait for him to be released and then proceed to attempt and sign him as a free agent. The other school says we have no chance if we have to compete on a level playing field with other teams for his services, ergo we need to attempt and trade for him before he hits free agency.

As long as you have teams in the latter you will have trade value for McNabb but benching him leads other teams to believe that you will release him if all else fails which drives down the asking price towards teams willing to deal. Then again the benching might lead other teams to believe they have a shot at dealing for him in the first place.

Either way I think Sally Jenkins summed it up best in that the benching lets us see not only what we have in our other QB's but also a chance to find out if McNabb is the source of our offensive woe's. Obviously if the offensive starts playing well without McNabb than we know that the QB is at fault for our measly 18.3 points per game.[/quote]

One of the recurring myths in this thread is that Donovan McNabb's trade value was somehow through the roof up to this point. At best we might have been looking at a 4th or 5th round pick if he'd played the season out as our starter. That might even be pushing it.

His decline was apparent to anyone paying attention much earlier than this. In fact, I remember listening to Trent Dilfer on Colin Cowherd's show talking about McNabb having his worst season as a pro. That was before the benching in Detroit. We were never going to cash in on a bucket full of draft picks thanks to McNabb's performance this year, folks.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Why are we so concerned who starts at QB the next 3 games we are 5-8 and going no where people. Get over it we need to rebuild. McNabb will more than likely will not return next season and we may draft a young QB in the 2011 draft. People cried when JC was here saying he sucked. People cried and said Zorn sucks bring in Shanny and now he is here for 1 season and alot of fans are ready to fire him. Wow thats why you are fans and not football coaches or players. You think you know more about players and football then a NFL coaches please pull your head out of your ass and stop crying. Let Shanny and his staff rebuild this shit show of a team more than 1 season. If you cannot wait then go jump on the Ravens bandwagon. McNabb had been up and down this season due to lack of a running game and O-line. But also when he did have time he forced throws and was very inacturate at times. I'm more pissed that we gave Philly a 2nd and 4th rd pick for a QB who maybe here for just 1 season. I guess we get burned on that trade but if he does not fit the system then cut him lose after 1 year regardless of the draft picks. Let see what Grossman can do in a full game. I know he has had some very bad games in Chicago but damn that was then and this is now. Maybe he may surprise us all and play well but we need to find out. D-Mac was a little better up grade over JC in my mind we should have kept JC and held on to our draft picks, but its to late for that now so suck it up and move on.

I'm in California and I listen to 106.7 fm the fan and all these crying ass fans talking about this and that go get your diaper on if you cannot stomach this mess Shanny has to clean up from years of the coach carousel in DC. This is a business and these players get paid to do a job if they cannot get it done then someone else will. Just ask the Patriots and Eagles about that, their's no loyalty unless your a sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer maybe. It's about what have you done for me lately league. :soapbox: