Re: Updated Title: World Revolution 2011
 

[quote=BuckSkin;790555]I just needed to ensure that the dossier that I am putting together on you contains the correct information.[/quote]

Now why in the world would you want to do something like that? Why dont I just send you a copy of my old ERB or DD-214?

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Looks like Syria could be going tits up soon too.

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So now after 9 days Obama is addressing the American people on his illegal war for oil. So far he has said bla, bla, bla.

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Now I know why we went to war. Obam said that Gadhafi bombed Masque.

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[quote=firstdown;791028]So now after 9 days Obama is addressing the American people on his illegal war for oil. So far he has said bla, bla, bla.[/quote]

Really dude? Come on.

Look, as everyone on here knows, I'm no fan of Obama (seems like a cool guy, but I don't care for his politics at all), but I think we're absolutely doing the right thing here, and I think for the most part we're approaching it the right way.

I actually liked his speech tonight better than any I've heard him give since being elected.

We had to help with some kind of intervention in Lybia, we took the lead to get the no-fly established, now we're backing off and handing it over to NATO on Wednesday and will continue to support, but not lead the op, and no ground troops will be involved. A measured, sound decision IMO.

My only issue is we have no stated end-game, but then again this whole thing is only 4 weeks old, so stay tuned.

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So why Lybia and not the other places around the world? Only real answer is oil. Now we are talking about arming the rebals and we don't even really know who they are.

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Well it seem we are learing who these rebals are. AL-QAEDA and think Obama is thinking about arming them.

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[quote=firstdown;791251]Well it seem we are learing who these rebals are. AL-QAEDA and think Obama is thinking about arming them.[/quote]

Where'd you hear that from? No government official has confirmed that. Secretary Clinton, Susan Rice, Joint Chiefs - none of them, to my knowledge, have floated the idea that the rebels are in cahoots with al-Qaeda. And while it's reasonable to believe that elements of al-Qaeda are in the mix, I don't think this movement in Libya was engineered or led by them. Since when have al-Qaeda used protesting as a means to get their point across and greated an American pilot with open arms? And with my very limited knowledge of the situation, I'm sure they aren't just sittng around waiting for America to give them weapons, they've been very capable of acquiring them in the past.

The truth is these organic uprisings are stealing al-Qaeda's thunder and sending a strong message that regimes can be overthrown through other means besides violence and terrorism.

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[quote=firstdown;791251]Well it seem we are learing who these rebals are. AL-QAEDA and think[B] Obama is thinking about arming them[/B].[/quote]
Osama bin Laden was allegedly among the recipients of U.S. arms,[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-14"][COLOR=#0645ad][15][/COLOR][/URL] although this view has been disputed.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-15"][COLOR=#0645ad][16][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-16"][COLOR=#0645ad][17][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-17"][COLOR=#0645ad][18][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-18"][COLOR=#0645ad][19][/COLOR][/URL]
Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine"][COLOR=#0645ad]Reagan Doctrine[/COLOR][/URL], which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet movements in Afghanistan, [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Angola"][COLOR=#0645ad]Angola[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Nicaragua"][COLOR=#0645ad]Nicaragua[/COLOR][/URL], and elsewhere.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0645ad][20][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Ronald_Reagan"][COLOR=#0645ad]Ronald Reagan[/COLOR][/URL] praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters".
first, what do you think about this?

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It may of just been an oversight, put you omitted the preceding wiki-paragraph.
The mujahideen were significantly financed and armed (and are alleged to have been trained) by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the administrations of [B]Carter[/B] and Reagan, and also by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan under Zia-ul-Haq, Iran, the People's Republic of China and several Western European countries. Pakistan's secret service, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was used as an intermediary for most of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance.

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[quote=dmek25;791344]Osama bin Laden was allegedly among the recipients of U.S. arms,[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-14"][COLOR=#0645ad][15][/COLOR][/URL] although this view has been disputed.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-15"][COLOR=#0645ad][16][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-16"][COLOR=#0645ad][17][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-17"][COLOR=#0645ad][18][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-18"][COLOR=#0645ad][19][/COLOR][/URL]
Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine"][COLOR=#0645ad]Reagan Doctrine[/COLOR][/URL], which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet movements in Afghanistan, [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Angola"][COLOR=#0645ad]Angola[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Nicaragua"][COLOR=#0645ad]Nicaragua[/COLOR][/URL], and elsewhere.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0645ad][20][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Ronald_Reagan"][COLOR=#0645ad]Ronald Reagan[/COLOR][/URL] praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters".
first, what do you think about this?[/quote]

I really don't know enough about these to have an opinion. What does it have to do with whats going on today? What I do know is that we are at war with Al Qaeda and why the f*ck would we even think of providing them arms. Now we hear that the CIA is on the ground and this has been leaked to the press probably increasing their risk. So much for the no boots on the ground lie,

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There was no doubt in my mind that covert ops were going on behind the scenes long before any nation flew the first sortie. It's simply not smart, regardless of your idealogical opinion, to engage your opponent without reliable intelligence on the ground. There are likely tarristsis (GWB's word not mine)fighting with the Libyian resistance, but after the past few years you must realize they also wear the same uniform I do.

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[quote=dmek25;791344]Osama bin Laden was allegedly among the recipients of U.S. arms,[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-14"][COLOR=#0645ad][15][/COLOR][/URL] although this view has been disputed.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-15"][COLOR=#0645ad][16][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-16"][COLOR=#0645ad][17][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-17"][COLOR=#0645ad][18][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-18"][COLOR=#0645ad][19][/COLOR][/URL]
Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine"][COLOR=#0645ad]Reagan Doctrine[/COLOR][/URL], which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet movements in Afghanistan, [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Angola"][COLOR=#0645ad]Angola[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Nicaragua"][COLOR=#0645ad]Nicaragua[/COLOR][/URL], and elsewhere.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0645ad][20][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Ronald_Reagan"][COLOR=#0645ad]Ronald Reagan[/COLOR][/URL] praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters".
first, what do you think about this?[/quote]Reagan was out to destroy the USSR, my enemy's enemy is my friend, is simply what was at play there. Reagan's support of the mujahideen in Afghanistan brought tremendous "bang for the buck" in terms of hurting the USSR financially and militarily, with minimal risk to US military personnel (not including covert ops folks of course).

I'm not sure what the correlation with Reagan's actions vs. Obama's actions is. Outside of taking out Gaddafi, which as I mentioned before could be fairly easily accomplished with an "off-course" cruise missle or a covert op assist to the rebels, what is our goal here? What are we accomplishing in the sense of a Mid East or global strategy? I think arming the rebels sends a very bad message and is the wrong thing to do. Again as I mentioned before, we need to get to the background of this quickly and let NATO, the Arab League, the French or Brits take point on this one.

If this was Iran and we're talking about arming rebels against that regime, maybe there's an end-game that benefits US interests a great deal and it's worth the risk (but I certainly don't do it publicly). In Libya, I don't see it.

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[quote=12thMan;791300]Where'd you hear that from? No government official has confirmed that. Secretary Clinton, Susan Rice, Joint Chiefs - none of them, to my knowledge, have floated the idea that the rebels are in cahoots with al-Qaeda. And while it's reasonable to believe that elements of al-Qaeda are in the mix, I don't think this movement in Libya was engineered or led by them. Since when have al-Qaeda used protesting as a means to get their point across and greated an American pilot with open arms? And with my very limited knowledge of the situation, I'm sure they aren't just sittng around waiting for America to give them weapons, they've been very capable of acquiring them in the past.

The truth is these organic uprisings are stealing al-Qaeda's thunder and sending a strong message that regimes can be overthrown through other means besides violence and terrorism.[/quote]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyan-opposition-includes-a-small-number-of-al-qaeda-fighters-us-officials-say/2011/03/29/AFRlXWyB_story.html"]Libyan opposition includes a small number of al-Qaeda fighters, U.S. officials say - The Washington Post[/URL]

And can anyone explain why the US would confirm or leak that we did have CIA agents in Libya? Would that not put them in more danger?

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[quote=firstdown;791433][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyan-opposition-includes-a-small-number-of-al-qaeda-fighters-us-officials-say/2011/03/29/AFRlXWyB_story.html"]Libyan opposition includes a small number of al-Qaeda fighters, U.S. officials say - The Washington Post[/URL]

[B]And can anyone explain why the US would confirm or leak that we did have CIA agents in Libya[/B]? Would that not put them in more danger?[/quote]

agree, that about as idoitic as a Vice President authorizing a leak of a CIA agent. Very stoopid, just doesnt make sense

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;791385]Reagan was out to destroy the USSR, my enemy's enemy is my friend, is simply what was at play there. Reagan's support of the mujahideen in Afghanistan brought tremendous "bang for the buck" in terms of hurting the USSR financially and militarily, with minimal risk to US military personnel (not including covert ops folks of course).

I'm not sure what the correlation with Reagan's actions vs. Obama's actions is. Outside of taking out Gaddafi, which as I mentioned before could be fairly easily accomplished with an "off-course" cruise missle or a covert op assist to the rebels, what is our goal here? What are we accomplishing in the sense of a Mid East or global strategy? I think arming the rebels sends a very bad message and is the wrong thing to do. Again as I mentioned before, we need to get to the background of this quickly and let NATO, the Arab League, the French or Brits take point on this one.

If this was Iran and we're talking about arming rebels against that regime, maybe there's an end-game that benefits US interests a great deal and it's worth the risk (but I certainly don't do it publicly). In Libya, I don't see it.[/quote]

Looks like we are taking more of a back seat role. I like.

[url=http://www.startribune.com/nation/119064354.html?page=1&c=y]In addition to pulling combat aircraft out of Libya mission, Navy missiles also put on standby | StarTribune.com[/url]

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I don't think leaking the CIA being on the ground is a bad thing. I assume it's more of message and warning to Ghadaffy's inner circle more than a direct threat to him.

We have to take this guy out one way or another.

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[quote=12thMan;791617]Looks like we are taking more of a back seat role. I like.

[URL="http://www.startribune.com/nation/119064354.html?page=1&c=y"]In addition to pulling combat aircraft out of Libya mission, Navy missiles also put on standby | StarTribune.com[/URL][/quote]Agree.

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So will we now go into Yemen? I mean if we have now set the standard what will it do if we let the Yemen government kills its people like they are now doing? If we allow it to go on will we not make enemies of the people we decide to to defend?

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42413911/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa]Troops open fire on Yemeni protesters - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com[/url]

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[quote=firstdown;791920]So will we now go into Yemen? I mean if we have now set the standard what will it do if we let the Yemen government kills its people like they are now doing? If we allow it to go on will we not make enemies of the people we decide to to defend?

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42413911/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa"]Troops open fire on Yemeni protesters - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com[/URL][/quote]

Did you happen to see the President's speech about this very thing? If you have the time check it out. I would say let the president explain his position and not the pundits who are putting words in his mouth. He's pretty clear about it.

Anyway, Yemen is a somewhat different situation.

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[quote=12thMan;791933]Did you happen to see the President's speech about this very thing? If you have the time check it out. I would say let the president explain his position and not the pundits who are putting words in his mouth. He's pretty clear about it.

Anyway, Yemen is a somewhat different situation.[/quote]

Actually when I made that post the only thing I had seen on Yemen was the article I had link and had heard nothing from Obama or talking heads.

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Yikes

[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the-koran-is-our-constitution-egyptian-president-promises-to-ignore-egyptian-constitution-for-the-sake-of-sharia-in-chilling-speech/]Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi Gives Campaign Speech Endorsing Jihad, Claiming He Will Ignore Constitution to | Video | TheBlaze.com[/url]

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This is still a big victory for Obama and his backing of the uprising. LOL

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[quote=SirClintonPortis;782260]Yeah, burning down well-guarded stone buildings far far away in the ****ing desert. Really practical. Or are you just ignorant of the logistics?[/quote]

[url=http://times.am/?l=en&p=10270]Will the Egyptian Pyramids be destroyed?[/url]

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[quote=mlmpetert;926131][url=http://times.am/?l=en&p=10270]Will the Egyptian Pyramids be destroyed?[/url][/quote]

Let those idiots blow it up.


"Hey guys, I have a great idea that'll bring this country into prosperity. LETS BLOW UP OUR ONLY SOURCE OF TOURISM!!!"



These people are sounding much like our fundies here in America.

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[quote=NC_Skins;926135]Let those idiots blow it up.


"Hey guys, I have a great idea that'll bring this country into prosperity. LETS BLOW UP OUR ONLY SOURCE OF TOURISM!!!"



[B]These people are sounding much like our fundies here in America[/B].[/quote]

um? just curious, when was the last time someone suggested demolishing the Washington Monument (an obelisk, clearly pagan in nature [/sarcasm]) or any other national treasure.

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Slight tangent:

I watched The Mystery of The Sphinx with Charleston Heston a year or so ago on Netflix. It was from the 90’s maybe even the late 80s. It was pretty difficult to watch and what you would expect/remember from documentaries from back then. However I learned a couple things from it:

1) Egyptologist is not only a real word but its also a real profession. Shockingly left without ownership until 1952, L Ron Hubbard laid claim to the words Scientology and Scientologist, forever making a career of being a scientist without a specialty no career at all.

2) I cant remember when but Westerns are to blame (aka thank) for the Great Sphinx as we know it today. It was covered in sand up to its head and apparently sand is hard as shit to remove in a desert. I believe the same may be true to some extent for the pyramids.

3) The Great Sphinx and the Pyramids are national treasures belonging to the Egyptian peoples. Tourism is one of the biggest factors for the Egyptian economy and [I]their[/I] national treasures are a huge part of that.

Now all of the above is obvious, but what was most interesting about the documentary, and perhaps the “Mystery” the title was alluding to, was that the Great Sphinx may not have been built by Egyptians, but rather by black Africans. I believe the Zulus are/were the best guess.

The documentary claimed the Great Sphinx was MUCH older than assumed and was built during a time when the Zulu people where likely in East Africa. Some Geologists, Climatologists and perhaps other “ologists” (with the exception of Scientologists) were making this claim based off of erosion (considering rainfall in the desert), numerous repairs and the materials used for the repairs along with the erosion to those repairs, the quarries the stones came from, the current and suspected previous faces of the Sphinx, the scale of the head to the body, sphinxes in Egyptian culture and a bunch of other stuff.

But these theories are/were shunned by Egyptologist. I think the field of Egyptology is/was very political, as its difficult to suggest to the Egyptian people that they didn’t build their own national treasures now that they believe they have. There may be racial factors as well. And I think once people started questioning the origins of the Sphinx the Egyptian government made it difficult for them to practice their science in Egypt. And an Egyptologist without Egypt is like a Scientologist without science….. wait never mind.

It was a interesting documentary (albeit painful to watch). I tried to cross check a lot of the claims on the internet and there is some things you can find relating to the issue although its not necessarily easy reading.

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Zulus are a South African tribe, it would have been a long walk.

The closest tribe were the Baka but they are tiny so it's unlikely.

My best guess is subcontractors using slaves and alien technology.

[IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4f2QVUe20nCYqQh6XypmVovakIxST47nkbHBJ5rIg6i220QkU[/IMG]

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;926138]um? just curious, when was the last time someone suggested demolishing the Washington Monument (an obelisk, clearly pagan in nature [/sarcasm]) or any other national treasure.[/quote]

Give them time, they'll find something. Right now, they are content on demolishing people's rights over buildings right now. :cheeky-sm

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[quote=RedskinRat;926217]Zulus are a South African tribe, it would have been a long walk.

The closest tribe were the Baka but they are tiny so it's unlikely.

My best guess is subcontractors using slaves and alien technology.

[/quote]

I feel like i remeber hearing Zulus but that doesnt make sense. Maybe the ancestors of the Zulus where pushed south when the Sahara dried up? I cant remember or im getting the Zulu part completely wrong.

So the most accepted theory is that the the Great Sphinx was built around 2-3k BC along with the pymarids. These people were saying that it may have been built around 6-13k BC (just the sphinx not the pyramids). Around 4k the area dried up and the climate is largly what it is today. Between 4-13k BC the area was somewhat tropical. The Sahara "Pump" theory. The idea was that the people who where there at that time were the ones who built the Sphinx.

Now Ancient Aliens clearly built the pyramids, everyone knows that. And Centaurs made Acient Aliens. But who made the Centuars? Maybe, just maybe, the Sphinx.

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Didn't people question who were we backing when we started arming these people.

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[IMG]http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/569/cache/new-mayan-temple-shows-sun-god-shark_56986_600x450.jpg[/IMG]

[I]Long since lost to the Guatemalan jungle, the temple is finally showing its faces to archaeologists, and revealing new clues about the rivalrous kingdoms of the Maya.[/I]

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[url=http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/tv-interview-jihadi-calls-destruction-sphinx-and-pyramids]In TV interview, jihadi calls for destruction of Sphinx and Pyramids | Egypt Independent[/url]

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That is one majorly effed up religion.

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I am currently liking this:
[URL="http://www.disinfo.com/2013/01/aaron-swartz-americas-mohamed-bouazizi-were-in-the-midst-of-a-revolution-which-side-are-you-on/"]
US Arab Spring, anyone?[/URL]

[I]The most revealing feature of our current economic and political model that points to a systematic failure is how the banks have been able to commit and profit from the most heinous crimes without being held accountable, while individuals have been relentlessly hounded for the most minor of infractions. Our society is full of such stories, from banks getting a slap on the wrist for laundering money for drug lords and terrorists while quadriplegics are arrested for smoking a joint and left to suffocate and die in prison, to our leaders having private hit lists and rebranding civilians as combatants and terrorists while peaceful civilians are incarcerated without being charged for any crime just because they refuse to take part in a witch-hunt. [/I]

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[quote=NC_Skins;926223]Give them time, they'll find something. Right now, they are content on demolishing people's rights over buildings right now. :cheeky-sm[/quote]Right now some liberals are a step ahead trying to demolish constitutional second amendment rights.

And isn't getting rid of public displays / attractions they don't like (nativity scenes for example) also a liberal thing?

:)