Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;845284]I wish it were possible to give a thread a negative rating.[/quote]

If anyone can make it happen, it's you! We believe in you!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=hooskins;845232]What if my parents didn't meet? What if the perfect amount of cosmic material was not present to facilitate the Big Bang?

You can go on and on with "what ifs" and you will never reach any logical conclusion. In the end you make the best decision with what you have got, try to be as proactive as you can but if you are successful there isn't a need for change.[/quote]Hey dude I was addressing your question.
It made more sense to answer in question form because I can only speculate.
Would it make you feel better if my answers to your questions were in the declarative:

[quote=hooskins;845046]If you have no problems with 3-1 why change? To me if you are content with where we are now why change what got us there?[/quote]

The coaching staff is aiming for optimal performance now to avoid losses in the future. In short they're not content to merely win they're looking for optimal execution or as Mike Shanahan said they're looking for perfection.

Rex should have made more plays in the Cowboys game and that cost us the victory.

Beck can likely provide the plays missing from the Rex in the Cowboys game.

See now you're parents did meet.

-Cheers

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I'm pretty sure Shanahan has already stated that he’ll measure Rex Grossman by wins and losses and he’s 3-1 this season.

I would agree that Rex needs to pick up his play though, especially in the second half of games, or we will lose games similar to those that we have managed to win.

Then, of course, his job will be in jeopardy...but not right now.

[URL="http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/10/redskins-notes-buchanon-returns-pauls-blocking"]Redskins notes: Buchanon returns; Paul's blocking | John Keim | NFL | Washington Examiner[/URL]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845283]If there's one thing I've learned its that nobody, no matter who they are or what they do, is irreplaceable.[/quote]

At this point in their careers Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, London Fletcher, Patrick Willis, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, and it didn't seem too easy to replace the production of Peyton Manning either. There are some people whos overall contribution to their team can not be replaced.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;845312]At this point in their careers Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, London Fletcher, Patrick Willis, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, and it didn't seem too easy to replace the production of Peyton Manning either. There are some people whos overall contribution to their team can not be replaced.[/quote]

If memory serves, when Brady was hurt Cassel came in and the team went something like 15-1. Brett Favre left and Rogers came in. When properly planned for the replacement is invisable, the Colts just didnt plan well. Time and the team goes on.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;845284]I wish it were possible to give a thread a negative rating.[/quote]

lololololololololol

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;845284]I wish it were possible to give a thread a negative rating.[/quote]

Matty, You felt the same way about the Campbell threads too. But it turned out most people were right about him. He stinks. And it didn't take you long to fall in love with DM. altho that didn't go well either.

How the heck is any Redskins fan willing to put up with that crap again (Grossmans play) without at least saying something about it? I know it has been a long time but have some people actually forgot what it takes to win?

I know, I know 3-1...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kzXt0HAMu8]Grossman INT - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845314]If memory serves, when Brady was hurt Cassel came in and the team went something like 15-1. Brett Favre left and Rogers came in. When properly planned for the replacement is invisable, the Colts just didnt plan well. Time and the team goes on.[/quote]

Which is why I prefaced the statement by saying at this point in their career. Do you honestly believe that you could plug Cassel into this current New England roster, and he would put up over 1500 yds in 4 games? And yes over time anyone can be replaced, but I'm speaking currently, and not in the waning twilight of ones career. No one can predict the degradation of a specific player, but as things currently stand, because all we have is the present, do you believe any of these players could be replaced at this moment by another player currently on their roster, or through free agency, and maintain the same production?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845314]If memory serves, when Brady was hurt Cassel came in and the team went something like 15-1. Brett Favre left and Rogers came in. When properly planned for the replacement is invisable, the Colts just didnt plan well. Time and the team goes on.[/quote]

New England went 11-5 the year Cassel played which is still pretty good

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;845318]Matty, You felt the same way about the Campbell threads too. But it turned out most people were right about him. He stinks. And it didn't take you long to fall in love with DM. altho that didn't go well either.

How the heck is any Redskins fan willing to put up with that crap again (Grossmans play) without at least saying something about it? I know it has been a long time but have some people actually forgot what it takes to win?

I know, I know 3-1...[/quote]

Who would you rather have, JC or Grossman/Beck?

I know you don't want to hear it, but at the end of the day yeah, 3-1.

Not much else matters after that.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;845329]Who would you rather have, JC or Grossman/Beck?

I know you don't want to hear it, but at the end of the day yeah, 3-1.

Not much else matters after that.[/quote]

At this point Grossman is the safest bet but knowing we need better, I would not mind seeing Beck "IF" Grossman flops on the Eagles.

I want Groosman to succeed. I really do. I want to win. And not just break 8-8. I want to go into the playoffs. If Grossman can get a grip, I think we have the team to do it. What do you think?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;845330]At this point Grossman is the safest bet but knowing we need better, I would not mind seeing Beck "IF" Grossman flops on the Eagles.

I want Groosman to succeed. I really do. I want to win. And not just break 8-8. I want to go into the playoffs. If Grossman can get a grip, I think we have the team to do it. What do you think?[/quote]

I don't know what he thinks, but I'll tell you what I think...
YOU know as do I this team is headed in the right direction, and for one of the few times in the last 20 years....respectable. At times and in some ways even...dominant.
YOU know as do I nobody, especially the coaches believe the QB answer to this team is on our current roster. The fact is they just could not get in all done in one year. We are rebuilding. We are building for the future and not just for a one year run but to be a serious contender year after year.
YOU know this is what you want as do I but it will take a little time and patience. I for one am ecstatic with the team and the results thus far.
I LOVE what they are doing and who they are doing it with. CANNOT wait to see the next set of personnel moves.......HTTR

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Hog1;845339]I don't know what he thinks, but I'll tell you what I think...
YOU know as do I this team is headed in the right direction, and for one of the few times in the last 20 years....respectable. At times and in some ways even...dominant.
YOU know as do I nobody, especially the coaches believe the QB answer to this team is on our current roster. The fact is they just could not get in all done in one year. We are rebuilding. We are building for the future and not just for a one year run but to be a serious contender year after year.
YOU know this is what you want as do I but it will take a little time and patience. I for one am ecstatic with the team and the results thus far.
I LOVE what they are doing and who they are doing it with. CANNOT wait to see the next set of personnel moves.......HTTR[/quote]

I Know :food-smil

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;845318]Matty, You felt the same way about the Campbell threads too. But it turned out most people were right about him. He stinks. And it didn't take you long to fall in love with DM. altho that didn't go well either.

How the heck is any Redskins fan willing to put up with that crap again (Grossmans play) without at least saying something about it? I know it has been a long time but have some people actually forgot what it takes to win?

I know, I know 3-1...
[/quote]

So the people that are complaining about Grossman and are asking for Beck, think that there are Redskins fans who don't know that Grossman stinks? I don't get this argument and I don't get people getting all worked up about Grossman. We all know what we were getting from Grossman. We just need him not to f*ck up too much so the team can win, that's it. And unfortunately there will be times that he will f*ck up to the point that we lose. But guess what, the same will happen if Beck were to take over.

That's what happens when u are rebuilding, you got to tough it out while you get the right personnel. If there is a better option at QB, it is not within the Redskins roster right now, period. I think the attitude of the people that don't want a QB change is more like "why bother?"

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

It doesn't matter if we bench him or not. Both he and Beck are stop gap players. They are not the future of this team.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;845320]Which is why I prefaced the statement by saying at this point in their career. Do you honestly believe that you could plug Cassel into this current New England roster, and he would put up over 1500 yds in 4 games? And yes over time anyone can be replaced, but I'm speaking currently, and not in the waning twilight of ones career. No one can predict the degradation of a specific player, but as things currently stand, because all we have is the present, do you believe any of these players could be replaced at this moment by another player currently on their roster, or through free agency, and maintain the same production?[/quote]

Yes, Cassel could be plugged in and produce those numbers with NE. I think almost any QB, even a career backup like Beck, could be plugged into NE and produce because of how good a team NE is.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Landry44;845356]It doesn't matter if we bench him or not. Both he and Beck are stop gap players. They are not the future of this team.[/quote]

I agree so why make the change? Its not going to make a huge difference and a QB change is going to upset one of the most important things we have going to far this season which is stability!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;845347]So the people that are complaining about Grossman and are asking for Beck, think that there are Redskins fans who don't know that Grossman stinks? I don't get this argument and I don't get people getting all worked up about Grossman. We all know what we were getting from Grossman. We just need him not to f*ck up too much so the team can win, that's it. And unfortunately there will be times that he will f*ck up to the point that we lose. But guess what, the same will happen if Beck were to take over.

That's what happens when u are rebuilding, you got to tough it out while you get the right personnel. If there is a better option at QB, it is not within the Redskins roster right now, period. I think the attitude of the people that don't want a QB change is more like "why bother?"[/quote]

You know what Ruh, I think the fact that there was a "QB competition" during preseason is what has us Beck guys curious. Now if it was all BS then I guess our only choice is Grossman at this time and I understand the rest of the story on rebuilding. But, if the coaches really did see something in Beck, and Grossman continues to make mistakes, then I wouldn't mind seeing what it is that Beck has to offer while we are rebuilding.

At the same time I said at the beginning of the season "If Grossman is the starter then he should stay the starter" for team continuity reasons only. But, now that I have seen the level of play the Skins are capable of I feel Grossman can actually hinder the development if he continues to play so sloppy.

At the same time a QB change mid season can spell disaster so thats why I say Grossman is the safest bet. But odds are Beck can play at a higher level than Grossman has thus far and a change (if one is to be made) sooner than later would be better.

We are 3-1 because our team has done exactly what you said, played well enough to compensate for Grossmans mistakes.

The team had a new attitude coming into this season, TH actually thinks they will make the SB. Does Grossman have what it takes to keep the Skins believing in themselves?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;845398][B]You know what Ruh, I think the fact that there was a "QB competition" during preseason is what has us Beck guys curious. [/B]Now if it was all BS then I guess our only choice is Grossman at this time and I understand the rest of the story on rebuilding. But, if the coaches really did see something in Beck, and Grossman continues to make mistakes, then I wouldn't mind seeing what it is that Beck has to offer while we are rebuilding.

At the same time I said at the beginning of the season "If Grossman is the starter then he should stay the starter" for team continuity reasons only. But, now that I have seen the level of play the Skins are capable of I feel Grossman can actually hinder the development if he continues to play so sloppy.

At the same time a QB change mid season can spell disaster so thats why I say Grossman is the safest bet. But odds are Beck can play at a higher level than Grossman has thus far and a change (if one is to be made) sooner than later would be better.

We are 3-1 because our team has done exactly what you said, played well enough to compensate for Grossmans mistakes.

The team had a new attitude coming into this season, TH actually thinks they will make the SB. Does Grossman have what it takes to keep the Skins believing in themselves?[/quote]

I'm the opposite. I was a Beck supporter throughout the offseason and early preseason. But what I saw about Beck in the preseason frightened me. Now I am content to curse Wrecks without calling for a change at QB.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I think Rex is being hurt alot by average WR play and bad play calling. I know people gonna hatte to hear it again, but we need to get the ball downfield. Id like to see Hankerson get an activation after the bye. Austin and Paul have been disappointing in the pass game. Austin really disappointing. Dont get me started on Stallworth.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Poor receivers, play calling notwithstanding, Rex has more fundamental challenges. Rex must secure the ball better in critical game situations....or change his name to....Rex Romo. Resist the allure of forcing the ball into coverage. He is getting away with some. He makes foolish decisions at times.
These have been career challenges for him and if he wants to shake that rep....change. For him to succeed, he will need to be conservative, precise and TOTALLY playing within his game ability.
AND BTW before the hate chanting begins. Good Rex is pretty good! Bad Rex needs to go away.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845392]Yes, Cassel could be plugged in and produce those numbers with NE. I think almost any QB, even a career backup like Beck, could be plugged into NE and produce because of how good a team NE is.[/quote]

So the fact that he set a NFL record for passing yardage in a 3 game stretch has nothing to do with Brady. Any QB can accomplish that feat just because they play in NE. C'mon man. He has a few weapons, I'll give you that, in Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez, but Ochocinco can't run the right routes, and drops easy catches, and Branch is limited in his production regularly and often can't find separation. We have Moss, Cooley, and Davis. I don't believe their talent supremely trumps ours.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I think their system, overall coaching, team mentality, attitude and cohesion does. Pure talent isn't enough to win. Ex. Eagles, Red Sox, Cubs, Heat.....

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I think the Eagles game will determine everything.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=hooskins;845426]I think their system, overall coaching, team mentality, attitude and cohesion does. Pure talent isn't enough to win. Ex. Eagles, Red Sox, Cubs, Heat.....[/quote]

I would agree with you on every one of those fronts, and still wouldn't have the audacity to claim that you could plug any QB into that system, and achieve the same mark.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Wow, this thread still going huh? Impressive:)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;845442]Wow, this thread still going huh? Impressive:)[/quote]

good job. dont forget to rate it 5 star thread.

:FIREdevil

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Beck is awesome.
He should be starting for the Packers.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;845430]I would agree with you on every one of those fronts, and still wouldn't have the audacity to claim that you could plug any QB into that system, and achieve the same mark.[/quote]

If you mean passing yards and TD totals then I do agree, not any QB could produce those numbers for NE. But like a lot of Redskins fans you seem to be stuck on meaningless passing, rushing, defense, etc, numbers. The only numbers that count are 3-1 (for both the Skins and NE) and in that case yes, I think NE could plug any QB in and the team would be 3-1.

[QUOTE=irish;845450]If you mean passing yards and TD totals then I do agree, not any QB could produce those numbers for NE. But like a lot of Redskins fans you seem to be stuck on meaningless passing, rushing, defense, etc, numbers. The only numbers that count are 3-1 (for both the Skins and NE) and in that case yes, I think NE could plug any QB in and the team would be 3-1.[/QUOTE]

With NE's horrible defense? Please. Brady has to put up all those yards and points because the Pats d is giving up almost as much as Brady is putting out.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845450]If you mean passing yards and TD totals then I do agree, not any QB could produce those numbers for NE. But like a lot of Redskins fans you seem to be stuck on meaningless passing, rushing, defense, etc, numbers. The only numbers that count are 3-1 (for both the Skins and NE) and in that case yes, I think NE could plug any QB in and the team would be 3-1.[/quote]

That's where we differ then. I'd rather see everything functioning in concert for sustained success. Much like NE has had for the past decade. And you are clearly more enamored with what is a tenuous 3-1 start to our season. That being winning one game by 1 point, losing one game without allowing a TD, and winning another game by 7 points to a defense that ranks 26th who were out scored by 18 against Philly, 12 against the Giants, and 30 facing Baltimore. I have a feeling you'll have a change of heart if those "meaningless" numbers begin to reflect, and accumulate in the loss column.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;845472]That's where we differ then. I'd rather see everything functioning in concert for sustained success. Much like NE has had for the past decade. And you are clearly more enamored with what is a tenuous 3-1 start to our season. That being winning one game by 1 point, losing one game without allowing a TD, and winning another game by 7 points to a defense that ranks 26th who were out scored by 18 against Philly, 12 against the Giants, and 30 facing Baltimore. I have a feeling you'll have a change of heart if those "meaningless" numbers begin to reflect, and accumulate in the loss column.[/quote]

A tenuous 3-1 start, that's one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. 3-1 is 3-1 no matter how it happened. The NFL is a week to week league and all they can do is beat that week's opponent. Once that game is over its over and on to the next game. Win by 1 win by 40 it doesnt matter in the NFL because of how tough it is to win games. If this team averages 20 yards rushing per game and 50 yds passing for the season and finishes 11-5 I will consider them to have had sustained success.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Shanahan said Grossman will be judged on wins and loses, does that mean if the D suddenly gives up for the next 3 games and we lose the next 3 games, Grossman will be pulled simply because we would have more loses than wins? No, Grossman is in control of his own destiny and if he continues to play the way he has been, he will be pulled.

Some of you are so content with 3-1 that your afraid to change anything at this point, I understand that but disagree with the logic.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;845488]A tenuous 3-1 start, that's one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. 3-1 is 3-1 no matter how it happened. The NFL is a week to week league and all they can do is beat that week's opponent. Once that game is over its over and on to the next game. Win by 1 win by 40 it doesnt matter in the NFL because of how tough it is to win games. If this team averages 20 yards rushing per game and 50 yds passing for the season and finishes 11-5 I will consider them to have had sustained success.[/quote]

Tell me when the last time a team has won a Superbowl without having some form of balance, and barely eeking out wins on a weekly basis, and maybe your case will hold weight. Otherwise go back to playing with your Tonka Toys.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;845489]Shanahan said Grossman will be judged on wins and loses, does that mean if the D suddenly gives up for the next 3 games and we lose the next 3 games, Grossman will be pulled simply because we would have more loses than wins? No, Grossman is in control of his own destiny and if he continues to play the way he has been, he will be pulled.

Some of you are so content with 3-1 that your afraid to change anything at this point, I understand that but disagree with the logic.[/quote]

Good post. There's no reason to think Mike will stick w/ any particular QB if he thinks the guy in waiting will produce more wins. One thing we absolutely know about our HC is he is all about winning.

I also agree Grossman controls his own destiny outside of Kyle's playcalling and gameplan. Sure Rex can make better decisions and avoid forcing the ball to covered targets. It also seems like it would be damn easy for him start protecting the ball when he's trying to waddle away from rushers. Those things are certainly in his control. On the other hand Kyle could help minimize errors by committing more to the run, especially when we have a hell of a RB corp, and giving Rex more downfield looks rather than lateral ones. Missing Armstrong obviously hurts but still we could throw the deep ball a lot more to Davis and Tana. Play-action should also be worked in more IMO.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I was watching the Kurt Warner story last night on NFLN watching Trent Green go down on a team with big aspirations, and hearing Dick Vermeil say that they would rally around Kurt Warner. I was thinking to myself what if Rex went down; Would Beck be like a Kurt Warner. I would love to see the somewhat unknown Beck play over the known Grossman.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;845492]Tell me when the last time a team has won a Superbowl without having some form of balance, and barely eeking out wins on a weekly basis, and maybe your case will hold weight. Otherwise go back to playing with your Tonka Toys.[/quote]

Um, last year? The Packers barely made the playoffs at 10-6 and they did so by "eeking out" several victories. And they lacked balance on offense, as their leading rusher had 703 yards. They were 5th in passing yards but near the bottom in rushing yards.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;845499]Um, last year? The Packers barely made the playoffs at 10-6 and they did so by "eeking out" several victories. And they lacked balance on offense, as their leading rusher had 703 yards. They were 5th in passing yards but near the bottom in rushing yards.[/quote]

To add to that, a truly poor Redskins team beat both GB and the Bears, who played the NFC championship.

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[quote=The Goat;845493]when he's trying to waddle away from rushers.[/quote]I was having kind of a downer day, this made me LOL and I'm still laughing when I picture the visual. Hilarious.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

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