Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

What irritates me the most is that people try to extrapolate mental states when players physically manhandled. In football, you very well could be giving maximum effort and still get your ass kicked. Inability is NOT Unwillingness!!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My whole thing is not to have Shanny fired after this season, but damn, come on fellas, this ship is taking on water. You have to remember that the vets on this team have been losing for their entire time on this team. The team is like a rudderless ship as of now. Yeah we are not stacked with talent, but this is still an NFL cailbre team or you would think it would be. This is looking too much like Zorny time now. I say we compete with the "Suck for Luck" teams if we must. Shanny actually bet on Beck becoming a starting QB after being a journeyman QB. He must have lost his eye for talent, if he ever had one to begin with.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Shanahan can publicly say what he wants. He didn't believe in April and he doesn't believe now that Beck is the long term answer. That QB isn't on our roster.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Apparently my Cooley prescription did not take the first time...try another dose...
AND Damn....SS stole my Shanny line!
[B]I'll let Cooley say it for me:[/B]
"I've listened to everyone call in, and I've listened to everyone talk about our staff, and this is what I like about it," Cooley said Monday on the LaVar and Dukes show. "Our fan base hates our owner, ok, because he can't ever keep a coach, he'll never keep players, he'll never keep guys around, he changes it, it's like a fantasy football team to him. But then everyone calls in and says we gotta get rid of Kyle Shanahan, we gotta get rid of Mike Shanahan, we gotta get rid of these players, we gotta trade Chris Cooley.

"So you criticize Dan Snyder for trading coaches and players every year and trying to do things every year, and then you call and say this is what we’ve got to do? I hate it. What we've got to do is keep consistency over a period of time, and continue to try to build, trust me, under Mike Shanahan, who knows football and knows players."
Longtimefan Posted the great Cooley Stuff.......

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855290]Shanahan can publicly say what he wants. He didn't believe in April and he doesn't believe now that Beck is the long term answer. That QB isn't on our roster.[/quote]

Then why the hell did he get him? Shoot why didn't we draft Ponder or Dalton. That non move will ensure us at least 2 more crappy football seasons, and then the overhaul that will be due in year 4 of Shanny's reign isn't guaranteed either. I am not expecting playoffs Smooty, but I would like to actually enjoy watching the Skins win or lose. This isn't even a fun past time anymore. I mean seriously, I can go down the road on I-94 and see a good MAC football game for one tenth the cost of a NFL game, with free parking!!!!!!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855290]Shanahan can publicly say what he wants. He didn't believe in April and he doesn't believe now that Beck is the long term answer. That QB isn't on our roster.[/quote]

Then what the hell is he doing??? Instead of drafting 15 Wr, shouldn't he then put some stock into some rookie qb.... Maybe even Mallet.
Yeah Mallet isn't " his style" qb but either is Rex..... And Beck ... Well I'm having a hard time that he's a qb period.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;855296]Then why the hell did he get him? Shoot why didn't we draft Ponder or Dalton. That non move will ensure us at least 2 more crappy football seasons, and then the overhaul that will be due in year 4 of Shanny's reign isn't guaranteed either. I am not expecting playoffs Smooty, but I would like to actually enjoy watching the Skins win or lose. This isn't even a fun past time anymore. I mean seriously, I can go down the road on I-94 and see a good MAC football game for one tenth the cost of a NFL game, with free parking!!!!!!!![/quote]

My guess is as crazy as it sounds, that he has had his eye on a college QB coming out in next years draft that he really wants, as is patiently waiting.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;855301]My guess is as crazy as it sounds, that he has had his eye on a college QB coming out in next years draft that he really wants, as is patiently waiting.[/quote]

It doesn't sound crazy at all. In fact, it sounds like a lock.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;855301]My guess is as crazy as it sounds, that he has had his eye on a college QB coming out in next years draft that he really wants, as is patiently waiting.[/quote]

This is a self-fulfilling prophesy. At the end of the 2011 NFL season, it will be clear to everyone - - fans, analysts, writers, sportsradio dudes and the Skins' coaching staff - - that Rex Grossman and/or John Beck are not "Franchise QBs"

At that point, the Skins will either :
[INDENT]Draft the guy they will say is the QB of the future

Sign a free agent who is a starting caliber QB in the NFL and declare him the future QB

Sign a free agent AND draft a QB of the future.[/INDENT]
And at that point the idea that Mike Shanahan had his eye on whomever the Skins draft or sign all along will be "proven" correct.

He didn't get his QB because he hasn't been available. This past draft we would have taken Locker. I'm convinced of that. Have talked to too many people who should know who say that was the plan. But the Titans took him. And Shanahan decided his second choice (apparently Gabbert) wasn't worth as much as trading down and adding more pieces.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

^ That makes perfect sense to me and I have no problem with it. We gained draft choices instead of drafting a QB just for the sake of drafting one. It makes no sense to draft a QB who the coaches don't believe will be very good.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855322]He didn't get his QB because he hasn't been available. This past draft we would have taken Locker. I'm convinced of that. Have talked to too many people who should know who say that was the plan. But the Titans took him. And Shanahan decided his second choice (apparently Gabbert) wasn't worth as much as trading down and adding more pieces.[/quote]

I'd like to see us do some trading and offer a few draft picks to the Titans and try to get Locker. It would be easier to do than getting Luck. I think they could make that happen. I like Locker big time. He is a player and I wanted him bad for my beloved Hogs. I would like to see the Skins do some dealing to get him. He would be perfect for us.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

More likely to be able to get Bradford if the Rams are in position to get Luck than we are to get Locker from the Titans.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

IMO getting Bradford would take care of the QB position for years. Wouldn't that be nice. :) Unfortunately I think the Colts or Dolphins get this pick. I heard some talk the other day that if Manning only wanted to play for 2 more years, the Colts could let Luck sit on the bench and learn from him. Sort of like Rodgers and Favre. BUT...if Manning wanted to play for 3-4 more years, it wouldn't make sense. It's definitely going to be interesting come draft time.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855334]More likely to be able to get Bradford if the Rams are in position to get Luck than we are to get Locker from the Titans.[/quote]

I know the point you are making here, but do you think the Rams would select Luck and trade Bradford? I personally don't see it.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855322]He didn't get his QB because he hasn't been available. This past draft we would have taken Locker. I'm convinced of that. Have talked to too many people who should know who say that was the plan. But the Titans took him. And Shanahan decided his second choice (apparently Gabbert) wasn't worth as much as trading down and adding more pieces.[/quote]

I'm starting to think that MS really isn't a very good personel guy. He's proven that with his track record.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;848386]My take is that football isn't rocket science and the coaches aren't infallible.[/quote]

You are right football isn't rocket science its football.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;854175]With the state of our o-line right now, Banks would get killed running the wildcat. I don't fault anyone for not running the ball now, but we didn't run the ball when the o-line was healthy.[/quote]

Stop saying Banks would be killed or he is to small to play on offense. Damn Banks has been playing football all his life and so far he has not been killed. He did play at Kansas St on offense and special teams. Im not suggesting Banks can play every down but he damn well can play 10 snaps a game on offense. Remember the defense cannot touch wr anymore down field so why not take a few shots with him.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;855337]I know the point you are making here, but do you think the Rams would select Luck and trade Bradford? I personally don't see it.[/quote]

I don't know. But if they have the first overall pick, I can't imagine them not taking Luck and I can't imagine them keeping both. But then Arizona that already has Kolb, and Jacksonville with Gabbert are in the hunt for that top spot as well so it could get really interesting

I'm 100% behind getting a QB. Having been say for months now we need not 1 but 2 new QBs. That said though, I don't think that Shanahan's decision not to take a QB just to take one is an indication that he's proven not to be a good personnel guy. I think he's ok, kind of middle of the road I suppose. You spend as long as he has doing what he does there are going to be hits and misses

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Good Read on Kyle and the Buff game in the News section of the WP if you have not seen it. Nobody gets thrown under the bus but........

[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/11/redskins-kyle-shanahan-fine-all-his-critics#ixzz1cjz8c1D9]Redskins' Kyle Shanahan fine with all his critics | John Keim | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url]

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855363]I don't know. But if they have the first overall pick, I can't imagine them not taking Luck and I can't imagine them keeping both. But then Arizona that already has Kolb, and Jacksonville with Gabbert are in the hunt for that top spot as well so it could get really interesting

I'm 100% behind getting a QB. Having been say for months now we need not 1 but 2 new QBs. That said though, I don't think that Shanahan's decision not to take a QB just to take one is an indication that he's proven not to be a good personnel guy. I think he's ok, kind of middle of the road I suppose. You spend as long as he has doing what he does there are going to be hits and misses[/quote]


I wouldn't put it past Arizona or Jacksonville to select Luck even with what they've invested into the QB. Also, not sure why the Rams would even select Luck. Why not just put the spot up for the highest bidder? Bradford has at least proven he can play in the NFL, but lacks the talent around him. They've made him the face of their franchise so it would seem like a step back to select Luck and trade him.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;855380]I wouldn't put it past Arizona or Jacksonville to select Luck even with what they've invested into the QB. Also, not sure why the Rams would even select Luck. Why not just put the spot up for the highest bidder? Bradford has at least proven he can play in the NFL, but lacks the talent around him. They've made him the face of their franchise so it would seem like a step back to select Luck and trade him.[/quote]

Given the new rookie wage scale, Luck will be cheaper to keep. Plus he might turn out to be better than even Bradford.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Depending on who ends up with the #1 pick, I could definitely see a high demand for teams to trade up, especially with the new rookie wage scale.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I feel like we had a great offseason. We went and took WHAT WAS AVAILABLE. We didn't stretch for a QB. We got some great building blocks for the future. The Redskins won't say it, but we're rebuilding. It takes time.

All the hate on Kyle I find a little comical. We have bottom 5 offensive talent in this league with a healthy roster, let alone losing all the pieces we've lost. Over the past two years we've made huge transitions on the defensive side of the ball. We now have a good and competitive defense. Time to spend the next two years focusing on modernizing the offense and getting the pieces we need.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;855384]Depending on who ends up with the #1 pick, I could definitely see a high demand for teams to trade up, especially with the new rookie wage scale.[/quote]


[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/11/01/why-the-redskins-need-andrew-luck/]HomerMcFanboy » why the redskins need andrew luck[/url]


Good article by Murf.


I could easily see it costing 2-4 first round picks for the guy.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/11/redskins-kyle-shanahan-fine-all-his-critics#ixzz1cjz8c1D9]Redskins' Kyle Shanahan fine with all his critics | John Keim | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url]


Thanks for posting this Matty. Good stuff.


[quote]Yes, even from his wife.

"She was pretty short with me," he said. "She said run the ball more."
[/quote]

:laughing-

Let his wife start play calling!!



In regards to Beck holding the ball too long.

[quote]"We did have quick throws. We just didn't get rid of them," Shanahan said. "He's got to learn to get rid of the ball."[/quote]

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;855391][url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/11/redskins-kyle-shanahan-fine-all-his-critics#ixzz1cjz8c1D9]Redskins' Kyle Shanahan fine with all his critics | John Keim | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url]


Thanks for posting this Matty. Good stuff.




:laughing-

[B]Let his wife start play calling!![/B]



In regards to Beck holding the ball too long.[/quote]

Or get her a headset where she can be in his ear during the game, he'll start calling more runs QUICKLY

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Hate to say that Kyle is reminding me of the ole ball coach, but if this keeps up he will be. That bills game had a disturbing 2003 feel to it; qb takes a deep drop & gets nailed. Doesn't work, so try it again. Then the virtually same running play is called several times over.

The left side of the line is patchwork, is the right side that much worse? Did we even run right the whole game (that reverse to stallworth doesn't count)? I understand you run a pass heavy O, but at least try to mix up the running plays that are called.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

If Mike and Kyle needed the perfect fit QB to make the offense fly (as many apologists say) then isn't it just a bigger indictment of their efforts in the personnel dept? It means McNabb, Rex and Beck have all been mistakes. You could even throw Jason into the mix as in letting him go was probably a mistake as he's easily been the best QB on the roster in the last several years.

Looking forward, we know the coaches have yet to find their QB. At best he's available in the draft or off-season as a FA. Drafting a future QB to me is an enormous risk. Mike hasn't ever developed a QB and shows at best average ability to spot potential. Drafting the future QB also means we're looking at another 2-3 years of rebuilding. I guess I hope there's a perfect fit FA out there who has the talent and ability to fit our system, whatever the eff that is.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;855390][URL="http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/11/01/why-the-redskins-need-andrew-luck/"]HomerMcFanboy » why the redskins need andrew luck[/URL]


Good article by Murf.


I could easily see it costing 2-4 first round picks for the guy.[/quote]

I've been saying in other threads that it will take a H. Walker type deal, which it should. I never thought of 4 1st rounders, but I think giving up 4 first rounders straight up would be a great deal.

Shanny & Allen have thus far shown they're at least decent in finding value in mid to late rounds. I have confidence that if they traded a boatload of picks away, as long as they kept a few picks they'd parlay them into more.

We're hopefully not in the suck for Luck race to the bottom, but are in the trade-up for Luck mix. btw, need a name for that, but I guess it's too early & that will come in the offseason.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;855403]If Mike and Kyle needed the perfect fit QB to make the offense fly (as many apologists say) then isn't it just a bigger indictment of their efforts in the personnel dept? It means McNabb, Rex and Beck have all been mistakes. You could even throw Jason into the mix as in letting him go was probably a mistake as he's easily been the best QB on the roster in the last several years.

Looking forward, we know the coaches have yet to find their QB. At best he's available in the draft or off-season as a FA. Drafting a future QB to me is an enormous risk. Mike hasn't ever developed a QB and shows at best average ability to spot potential. Drafting the future QB also means we're looking at another 2-3 years of rebuilding. I guess I hope there's a perfect fit FA out there who has the talent and ability to fit our system, whatever the eff that is.[/quote]

What do you mean he's never developed a QB? How are you defining develop exactly?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=freddyg12;855404]I've been saying in other threads that it will take a H. Walker type deal, which it should. I never thought of 4 1st rounders, but I think giving up 4 first rounders straight up would be a great deal.

Shanny & Allen have thus far shown they're at least decent in finding value in mid to late rounds. I have confidence that if they traded a boatload of picks away, as long as they kept a few picks they'd parlay them into more.

We're hopefully not in the suck for Luck race to the bottom, but are in the trade-up for Luck mix. btw, need a name for that, but I guess it's too early & that will come in the offseason.[/quote]

2 firsts for Bradford or 4 for Luck, what do you do? Maybe our 2012 first puts us (meaning them) in a position to get Blackmon. They get Luck and Blackmon, we get Bradford and keep two firsts for the future. I'm happy with that

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855334]More likely to be able to get Bradford if the Rams are in position to get Luck than we are to get Locker from the Titans.[/quote]

Rams would be much better off trading the pick for Luck to get many other players to help Bradford. They have a good QB. They need players to help Bradford. Not another QB. They would get more for Luck than Bradford and acquire more players. A much better option for the Rams. The Titans can be dealt with but it won't be cheap. But cheaper than Luck. The Colts would be smart to draft luck but not the Rams.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855410]What do you mean he's never developed a QB? How are you defining develop exactly?[/quote]

Develop as in taking raw potential and turning it into championship level performance. Montana and Elway don't count for obvious reasons. Cutler...I don't think Mike added anything to what Cutler already was/is.

Another way to state it is Mike doesn't have the track record Belichick does for instance. Bill developed Brady and then Cassel. Starting from nothing, or close to it anyway, w/ the leavings of Snyder and a cokehead there's not much reason to think Mike is the guy to make this thing happen.

And admittedly I tend to look at Mike's SBs as circumstance more than anything. He had the best TE, RB, defense at the time, of which he didn't develop and in the case of the defense he had nothing to do with. Wade was probably the best DC in the game then. Mike may have helped Elway...do...something...different?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I don't know. I mean I get that Elway was a star QB before Shanahan got there. But he had his best years as a QB (both statistically and rings wise) under Shanahan. And Young blossomed under Shanahan as his offensive coordinator. Griese, I believe enjoyed his best years under Shanahan as did Plummer. Would Cutler have had a different career trajectory if he hadn't been selected by Shanahan and the Broncos? I don't know. And how does he not get any credit for Terrell Davis?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855451]I don't know. I mean I get that Elway was a star QB before Shanahan got there. But he had his best years as a QB (both statistically and rings wise) under Shanahan. And Young blossomed under Shanahan as his offensive coordinator. Griese, I believe enjoyed his best years under Shanahan as did Plummer. Would Cutler have had a different career trajectory if he hadn't been selected by Shanahan and the Broncos? I don't know. And how does he not get any credit for Terrell Davis?[/quote]

These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Daseal;855385]I feel like we had a great offseason. We went and took WHAT WAS AVAILABLE. We didn't stretch for a QB. We got some great building blocks for the future. The Redskins won't say it, but we're rebuilding. It takes time.

All the hate on Kyle I find a little comical. We have bottom 5 offensive talent in this league with a healthy roster, let alone losing all the pieces we've lost. Over the past two years we've made huge transitions on the defensive side of the ball. We now have a good and competitive defense. Time to spend the next two years focusing on modernizing the offense and getting the pieces we need.[/quote]

It is comical. We were overperforming to our talent level prior to the injuries. I'd say that's pretty good coaching.

I think many fans want to admit how crappy our team was when MS got here. I refuse to admit that the organization thinks Beck/Grossman are legit "franchise" QB's. They do have to come out publically and say nice things about them...that's what you do. We've got a ways to go, don't start going all "Snyder."

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=redsk1;855461]It is comical. We were overperforming to our talent level prior to the injuries. I'd say that's pretty good coaching.

I think many fans want to admit how crappy our team was when MS got here. [B]I refuse to admit that the organization thinks Beck/Grossman are legit "franchise" QB's. They do have to come out publically and say nice things about them[/B]...that's what you do. We've got a ways to go, don't start going all "Snyder."[/quote]

Your right! What are they supposed to say? These two Dog Assed Mf..ers couldn't make the starting team for Odessa Permian? But there all I got.
....as you point out.
I Really cannot understand WHY so many fans cannot seem to grasp this and that the coaches comments (any coach at any given time) are just "CoachSpeak" and may have little to do with the truth.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;855459]These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.[/quote]

I thought Shanahan and Davis both came in 1995.

I don't have any bias for Mike Shanahan, I'm kind of neutral toward him.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;855459]These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.[/quote]

That stellar ground game has done well in Houston, Oakland(when Cable introduced it), and Tennessee.