Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;875264]The top free agent QB is going to want to make sure that he gets a one year grace period when it comes to acquiring other top tier QB prospects. I seriously doubt that drafting RGIII would sit well with him not to mention it would negate the flexibility that Matt Flynn would give us in the draft to take the BPA.

And make no mistake about it. Matt Flynn is not going to come cheap. Maybe cheap by Peyton Manning/Tom Brady QB standards. Still look at what these unproven but highly touted QB's got.


2007 - Matt Schuab - 6 Years $48 Million - $7 Million Signing Bonus
[B]2009 - Matt Cassell - 6 Years $63 Million - $28 Million Signing Bonus[/B]
[B]2011 - Kevin Kolb - 5 Years $63 Million - $20 Million Signing Bonus[/B]
2011 - Ryan Fitzpatrick - 6 Years $59 Million $15 Million Signing Bonus

If any of you think that Flynn would come with a low signing bonus and a $4 million a year cap hit at most then you're nuts.[/quote]

And this is exactly why we should stay away from Flynn. As I've said, let's go draft our own guy and start him day one, like Cincy and Carolina did.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875275]Truthfully, with as stupid as some owners/GMs are, it wouldn't surprise me to see anything. Teams are so QB desperate, they probably will pay premium money. Hell, they paid $50 mil guaranteed to Bradford who'd never took a snap in the NFL.[/quote]

But that was under the old CBA and he was a QB that was the first pick of the draft. If it was under the new rules Bradford wouldn't have received that kind of money. He would've probably gotten 20 mil guaranteed, like Newton did. But I do agree with you, teams are hard up for top QB play and someone's going to overpay for Flynn's services, just like Az overpaid for Kolb.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;875300]But that was under the old CBA and he was a QB that was the first pick of the draft. If it was under the new rules Bradford wouldn't have received that kind of money. He would've probably gotten 20 mil guaranteed, like Newton did. But I do agree with you, teams are hard up for top QB play and someone's going to overpay for Flynn's services, just like Az overpaid for Kolb.[/quote]

Yeah, just look at what Charlie Whitehurst fetched draft-pick wise.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;873918]Yup. And that FA can't be Rex, because he gives us no leverage[/quote]

As much as I don't like your idea of Orton, he would bring in more leverage than Rex at this point and he's probably the least expensive contingency plan.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I think I, along with the rest of us, are missing the key fact about Flynn. We all saw his TD performances against NE and the 6 TD's against the Lions. And after evaluations, the majority of us are saying 'oh thats all his receiver's, his talent, his scheme.' But the thing we seem to be missing is that he is Smart enought to get it to the right guy, the open guy, and he is Proven that he can grasp and get a hold of an offense and make the right decision.

Who knows how good he Could be if he gets a hold of the Shanahan's offense, and gets a great playmaking WR...

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;875310]Yeah, just look at what Charlie Whitehurst fetched draft-pick wise.[/quote]

Hey hey hey. Leave Charlie out of this.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;875317]I think I, along with the rest of us, are missing the key fact about Flynn. We all saw his TD performances against NE and the 6 TD's against the Lions. And after evaluations, the majority of us are saying 'oh thats all his receiver's, his talent, his scheme.' But the thing we seem to be missing is that he is Smart enought to get it to the right guy, the open guy, and he is Proven that he can grasp and get a hold of an offense and make the right decision.

Who knows how good he Could be if he gets a hold of the Shanahan's offense, and gets a great playmaking WR...[/quote]

And others are missing another key fact about him.. He has 9 TD and 7 turnovers (5 INT, 2 fumbles lost). If you take away his 'magical' performance he has 3 TD and 4 turnovers (3 INT, 1 FL) so there is significant question as to how special of a QB he is, getting to the right guy and making the right decision. Not to say that he isn't but there have been tons of QB who have played one great game and it be an aberration. He really hasn't proven a thing.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;875330]And others are missing another key fact about him.. He has 9 TD and 7 turnovers (5 INT, 2 fumbles lost). If you take away his 'magical' performance he has 3 TD and 4 turnovers (3 INT, 1 FL) so there is significant question as to how special of a QB he is, getting to the right guy and making the right decision. Not to say that he isn't but there have been tons of QB who have played one great game and it be an aberration. He really hasn't proven a thing.[/quote]

I'll second this. And I'll also second that post above about backup qb's getting massive paydays after teams spending exorbitant amounts just to get them. Just say no to Flynn.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;875330]And others are missing another key fact about him.. He has 9 TD and 7 turnovers (5 INT, 2 fumbles lost). If you take away his 'magical' performance he has 3 TD and 4 turnovers (3 INT, 1 FL) so there is significant question as to how special of a QB he is, getting to the right guy and making the right decision. Not to say that he isn't but there have been tons of QB who have played one great game and it be an aberration. He really hasn't proven a thing.[/quote]
Agreed, see Kevin Kolb and all he accomplished this year after all the hoopla about him last year.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

For every Kevin Kolb, there is a Jake Delhomme.(He did have some good years before he started throwing picks 5 times a game)

For every Kurt Warner there is a Don Strock.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Oh also according to Chris Russell Matt Flynn and Ryan Tannehill have the same agent..read into that or hold that as whatever info as you want.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Get ready to cringe.

[url=http://www.redskinscardmuseum.com/redskins-quarterbacks-90-present.html]Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present[/url]

Our QBs since the 90's.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875344]Get ready to cringe.

[URL="http://www.redskinscardmuseum.com/redskins-quarterbacks-90-present.html"]Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present[/URL]

Our QBs since the 90's.[/quote]


no wonder we suck

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;875352]Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?[/quote][url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm]Mark Rypien NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

11 Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Len Dawson*, [B]Chad Pennington[/B], [B]Jake Delhomme[/B], [B]David Garrard[/B], Elvis Grbac, [B]Marc Bulger[/B], Gary Danielson, Jeff Hostetler

Career Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, [B]Chad Pennington[/B], [B]Jake Delhomme[/B], [B]David Garrard[/B], Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Gary Danielson, [B]Marc Bulger[/B], Stan Humphries

The Scott Mitchell one works pretty well, although it's hardly current.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;875352]Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?[/quote]

I'd compare him to a poor man's Phillip Rivers. Kind of clumsy, doesn't look real pretty out there but throws are great deep ball and gets the job done. A lot of people forget that Rip had some pretty solid years here before the magical 91 season. In 89 The Posse all went over a 1,000 yards and he was the main guy throwing it.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

And to have the posse put up those kind of numbers over 20 years ago is unreal compared to the different defensive play allowed today.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875344]Get ready to cringe.

[url=http://www.redskinscardmuseum.com/redskins-quarterbacks-90-present.html]Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present[/url]

Our QBs since the 90's.[/quote]

Eh, we've seen that every year. Only difference is it's two names longer this year.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;875355][url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm]Mark Rypien NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

11 Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Len Dawson*, [B]Chad Pennington[/B], [B]Jake Delhomme[/B], [B]David Garrard[/B], Elvis Grbac, [B]Marc Bulger[/B], Gary Danielson, Jeff Hostetler

Career Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, [B]Chad Pennington[/B], [B]Jake Delhomme[/B], [B]David Garrard[/B], Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Gary Danielson, [B]Marc Bulger[/B], Stan Humphries

The Scott Mitchell one works pretty well, although it's hardly current.[/QUOTE]

I've seen all his highlights and the delhomme comparison seems about right

#Hail to the Redskins

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;875356]I'd compare him to a poor man's Phillip Rivers. Kind of clumsy, doesn't look real pretty out there but throws are great deep ball and gets the job done. A lot of people forget that Rip had some pretty solid years here before the magical 91 season. In 89 The Posse all went over a 1,000 yards and he was the main guy throwing it.[/QUOTE]

Hell I wish we had a poor man's rivers now lmao

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;875337]For every Kevin Kolb, there is a Jake Delhomme.(He did have some good years before he started throwing picks 5 times a game)

For every Kurt Warner there is a Don Strock.[/quote]

Or Matt Schaub, Trent Green, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, Mark Bulger, Mark Brunell, etc. All viable starters who were back ups elsewhere first. Can't generalize.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Guess you can add Brett Favre to the list as well.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

^exactly.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/13/matt-flynn-is-a-popular-man-in-seattle/]Matt Flynn is a popular man in Seattle | ProFootballTalk[/url]


No surprise, but If we really want him..we have some competition for him.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Just can't help but wonder what Flynn would've done against NYG last night. Rodgers did not have a great game at all. No you don't entertain the thought of benching Rodgers but, what's the reason for Rodgers' unimpressive play? Yes he was under pressure and sacked five times. Yes his WRs dropped a few few balls but, an equal amount of passes (if not more) were thrown off target.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;875383]Or Matt Schaub, Trent Green, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, Mark Bulger, Mark Brunell, etc. All viable starters who were back ups elsewhere first. Can't generalize.[/quote]

At this point, after the lackluster QB play weve had the last 10-15 years, can we afford to be content with a "viable starter"? With flynn, there is less risk of bust than say RGIII, but there is little promise of him entering elite status. I want a top 5-10 Quarterback, and will do what is needed to get that.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Based on 2011 draft a QB in the 1st round is a crap shot Newton, Ponder Gabbert, Locker, & Dalton. Based on there production you would have to say 40% chance of selecting a good QB from day one otherwise it's a project. I'm going to be flip flopping all the way up until the draft is over. If we can get some pieces in FA it would help our rebuilding. We have to offer Flynn a contract even if we are bluffing IMO.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;876306]Based on 2011 draft a QB in the 1st round is a crap shot Newton, Ponder Gabbert, Locker, & Dalton. Based on there production you would have to say 40% chance of selecting a good QB from day one otherwise it's a project. I'm going to be flip flopping all the way up until the draft is other. If we can get some pieces in FA it would help our rebuilding. We have to offer Flynn a contract even if we are bluffing IMO.[/quote]

Good point but, RG3 is a better prospect than all those mentioned except for Newton which he's compares favorably.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ive meant to post this 2 weeks ago, but ive been way too busy with real life stuff…. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Im posting this for those like me that see a lot of similarities in GB’s offense and DC’s offense. 30gut gave a great breakdown between the differences and this adds to his comparison. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/873233-post210.html[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]My opinion was, if Matt Flynn can be successful in GB’s offense then I think he has a high likelihood of finding success in our offense, partly because I view both offenses as very similar. But a couple people, namely GTripp and 30gut, kept saying that the systems are very different, so the argument that Flynn would be good in Kyle’s system because hes been good in GB’s system is flawed. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I went looking for more info about the Redskins system and GB’s system and came across this article by GTripp:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://redskinshogheaven.com/2011-articles/november/kyle-shanahan-the-vertical-offense-and-rex-grossman.html"]Kyle Shanahan, the vertical offense, and Rex Grossman | November[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Of all the stuff I tried to find on the Redskins offense this is probably the most detailed and analytic. I sent him a PM asking if I could post his article and the following: [/FONT][/COLOR]

[I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]………I started looking around for the differences between GB’s and DC’s offense mainly because of some things you’ve said in the Matt Flynn thread. Besides both being WCO’s w zone running games you’ve said the 2 offenses are very different. I admit that im completely inept when it comes to judging the differences between offenses, but to me they seem pretty similar. In fact ive always thought, after Houston’s, GB’s offense seemed the most similar to ours. [/FONT][/COLOR][/I]

[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]From your article and some other things ive read it seems that Kyle’s passing philosophy is more risky and vertical then GB’s. It also seems a big part of GB’s offense is to allow for much more improv from the receivers and Rodger’s when plays break down or pockets collapse, whereas exact timing and precision takes on a much greater importance in Kyle’s scheme.[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]

[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]I was wondering if you could touch on what you view as the major differences between the 2 offenses and why you think someone like Flynn would or wouldn’t have success in Kyle’s scheme. Or besides a “superstar” QB like Luck who do you think would have success in Kyle’s offense that may also be obtainable, do you think RGIII or even someone like Henne or McCoy could be successful in Kyle’s system?[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Relevant part of GTripp’s response:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]"It's not that I do not think Matt Flynn wouldn't be able to handle Kyle's scheme, but it's more that the Green Bay offense is so much more wide open and devastating to defenses with the way it forces you to show your hand before the snap. Kyle's offense, on a lot of his passing plays, requires absolutely no thinking before the snap. You just take it and your eyes go right to the primary receiver and get the ball out as soon as he is open.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Kyle mass protects pretty much anything he does on first and second down for those downfield attacks. Green Bay will sometimes spread the field and force the defense to cover every inch. That allows Green Bay to put defenses in a position where mismatches are inevitable. Where as Washington will use longer developing route combinations to try to move the coverage in order to create a throw.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]I don't think any player is really a bad fit for the Kyle Shanahan system: it's not a difficult one to play quarterback in. A lot of the interceptions our quarterbacks throw is just a result of the play design: if you're only putting two receivers in the route and running play action, you're kind of counting on the linebackers being up around the line of scrimmage. There's just no way you can run two receivers where they can beat six defenders in coverage. But I think guys who are experienced passers like Chad Henne with erratic streaks, or a guy who plays a bit erratically in college, like Landry Jones, can find a good home into this system. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Because the system Kyle runs is really pretty limited, those passers who get criticized for being inconsistent decision makers can become more productive players here because we're not asking the quarterback to do anything besides be a tough pocket passer, hang in there, and go play. I don't think Flynn wouldn't be able to execute that system, I think he would, but why get in a bidding war for a guy who won't be able to take the Green Bay system and receivers with him?"[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Kyle's system has been simple with Rex in place but was it just as simple in Houston with Schaub? I guess what I'm getting at, would Kyle open it up and make it more complex with a better QB in place?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I'd like to think any OC worth his weight could flex his system to the talents of his QB.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I think KS tailored much of his playcalling to the insufficienies at QB and OL play. Grossman nor Beck can beat the blitz or lack of pass protection. They also lack the accuracy to complete passes in tight windows.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;876555][B]I think KS tailored much of his playcalling to the insufficienies at QB and OL play.[/B] Grossman nor Beck can beat the blitz or lack of pass protection. They also lack the accuracy to complete passes in tight windows.[/quote]

I honestly feel that this happened much later in the semester. Early on in the season, I felt that Kyle had a plan and would pretty much stick to it regardless of whether his OL and QB would perform. Far too often I saw the team pass from under center, right after the OL had been blown up for a sack. Also, far too often did I see Kyle call a deep downfield pass, even though we were 3rd and short. Also, it was early on in the season when Kyle went pass, pass, and pass wayyyy too often. Later on in the season (when things didn't matter) was when I saw Kyle adjusting to the team's deficiencies.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;876297]Just can't help but wonder what Flynn would've done against NYG last night. Rodgers did not have a great game at all. No you don't entertain the thought of benching Rodgers but, what's the reason for Rodgers' unimpressive play? Yes he was under pressure and sacked five times. Yes his WRs dropped a few few balls but, an equal amount of passes (if not more) were thrown off target.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I couldn’t help but wonder the same thing. You almost wanted Rodgers to get hurt so we all could get another look at Flynn....[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think the combination of 2 weeks off, seasonable cold instead of unseasonable warm weather like it had been, and their O coordinator’s son tragically dyeing days before through the GB offense off. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]But as much as people like to say QB’s can get rusty after missing a game or 2 that wasnt true with Flynn. One of the things ive liked most about Flynn is that hes played well and has come in prepared and ready very late in the season after sitting for an extended time. Hes also remained extremely poised and looked comfortable in the pocket considering his lack of opportunity and real life experience. Thats extremely impressive to me.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So even with the difference in our offensive schemes I still think Flynn should be our top FA pursuit. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

If the best QB in the game couldn't get it done, not sure what Flynn could have done different.

Their whole offense was just off. Drops, timing, bad throws, etc. They just seemed really rusty.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;876603]If the best QB in the game couldn't get it done, not sure what Flynn could have done different.

Their whole offense was just off. Drops, timing, bad throws, etc. They just seemed really rusty.[/quote]

In a hypothetical sense. If this is the guy who's could lead this (Skins) team into the playoffs, how would he have fared? Of course you don't bench Rodgers. That doesn't cross your mind.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;876613]In a hypothetical sense. If this is the guy who's could lead this team into the playoffs, how would he fare? Of course you don't bench Rodgers. That doesn't cross your mind.[/quote]

I hear you.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=cdskins26;876299]At this point, after the lackluster QB play weve had the last 10-15 years, can we afford to be content with a "viable starter"? [B]With flynn, there is less risk of bust than say RGIII[/B], but there is little promise of him entering elite status. I want a top 5-10 Quarterback, and will do what is needed to get that.[/quote]I simply think that this is actually the other way around. Flynn isn't as accomplished as RGIII and is therefore a riskier bet to pan out.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

My perfect world:

The Pack won't be tagging Flynn. The Skins offer whatever it takes to get him. No draft picks I'm talking money amount. Then we pick up RG3 in the draft. We grab some WR weapons in the FA bidding war and the Skins finally get an "A+" for their offseason moves and draft. Let the QBs battle it out for the starting spot. Maybe start Flynn and work RG3 in on some spread package that's added. If RG3 is the man lets work him into more playing time and we could trade Flynn next year or keep both.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=cdskins26;876299]At this point, after the lackluster QB play weve had the last 10-15 years, can we afford to be content with a "viable starter"? With flynn, there is less risk of bust than say RGIII, but there is little promise of him entering elite status. I want a top 5-10 Quarterback, and will do what is needed to get that.[/quote]

Yeah, look at what being content with a viable starter has gotten the Ravens, 49ers, and even the Giants to a degree (Eli is so mediocre people around here actually made serious arguments that he wasn't as good as Jason Campbell).

We really need the future Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees. Can't win any more with a team that plays solid Defense, runs the ball well and passes pretty good, but maybe not great. It's all about throwing it 60 times a game.

Even if Rex threw for modest numbers like 22TDs and only 10INTs, we would have only won maybe 1 or 2 more games. We really need a 30 plus TD guy, and of course RGIII is going to step right in and do that in year 1. Because it happens all the time.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SBXVII;876663]My perfect world:

The Pack won't be tagging Flynn. The Skins offer whatever it takes to get him. No draft picks I'm talking money amount. Then we pick up RG3 in the draft. We grab some WR weapons in the FA bidding war and the Skins finally get an "A+" for their offseason moves and draft. Let the QBs battle it out for the starting spot. Maybe start Flynn and work RG3 in on some spread package that's added. If RG3 is the man lets work him into more playing time and we could trade Flynn next year or keep both.[/quote]

Sorry but this makes zero sense. Getting the (allegedly) most coveted player at the position in free agency AND trading up to get RGIII???

Put. The controller. Down.