Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

I am very happy with Graziano's handling of this issue. Makes me feel good to know someone at ESPN has the fans back in all of this.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=tryfuhl;903652]Exactly. The owners [B]chose to go uncapped[/B].[/quote]

ya know that is such a obvious point that goes unnoticed in this argument. They opted out and chose to go uncapped, so if anyone should know better what they chose to do it should be Mara and the rest of the owners. They chose to not have a contract, nothing in writing...

Cant believe Goodell was this effing foolish to go along with this.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Chico23231;903660]ya know that is such a obvious point that goes unnoticed in this argument. [B]They opted out and chose to go uncapped,[/B] so if anyone should know better what they chose to do it should be Mara and the rest of the owners. They chose to not have a contract, nothing in writing...

Cant believe Goodell was this effing foolish to go along with this.[/quote]But the figured they could opt of and go uncapped specifically because they thought they colluded to keep an unofficial salary cap in place. Now it's biting them in the ass.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Skins and Pokes seek arbitration.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-salarycapchallenge]Redskins, Cowboys seek arbitration concerning cap - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Chico23231;903660]ya know that is such a obvious point that goes unnoticed in this argument. They opted out and chose to go uncapped, so if anyone should know better what they chose to do it should be Mara and the rest of the owners. They chose to not have a contract, nothing in writing...

Cant believe Goodell was this effing foolish to go along with this.[/quote]

Nothing like having to wipe egg off your face and be forced to back an idiotic move you were forced to go along with. lol.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Lotus;903666]Skins and Pokes seek arbitration.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-salarycapchallenge]Redskins, Cowboys seek arbitration concerning cap - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

I bet you any amount of $$$ the JUDGE is probably a shegles fan. LOL :laughing2

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Giantone,......

Where are you brother? I have something for you.....

[QUOTE]Mara is wrong because the only thing of which the Redskins and Cowboys are guilty is failing to honor a shady gentleman's agreement between 32 billionaires who don't want to pay their employees any more than they have to. What the NFL, Mara and the other owners did, effectively imposing a salary cap when none had been agreed to by the other party (i.e., the players) in their collective bargaining agreement, was patently wrong. To punish the teams that didn't go along with the wrong, and to so strenuously defend the punishment as though it were right, is the height of arrogance[/QUOTE]

I'm just guessing but I assume you see our owner as a hero in all this, right?

Edit: sorry forgot the link. but it has been put up by me already.
[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37421/im-not-sure-john-mara-should-be-talking]I'm not sure John Mara should be talking - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;903671]I bet you any amount of $$$ the JUDGE is probably a shegles fan. LOL :laughing2[/quote]

Yeah were screwed. lol.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

I have a major question. Why was the CAP going to be lower? and if it was because of money income or some balanced budget then why was it so easy for the league/Goodell to agree to keep the CAP up around 120 mill?

Personally I think, if I'm correct, the whole lowering of the CAP was the leagues way of forcing the NFLPA to go along with the program. The CAP was going to remain the same no matter what but the league said they would lower it if the NFLPA didn't go along with it. Which to me is strong arming the NFLPA.

The way I see it if the CAP was going to be lowered because of some budget reason then the league wouldn't be able to adjust it so easily or keep it at 120 mill. They would be forced to lower it no matter what. No different then the league could raise it above 120mill if they so chose.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Here's another nice write up....

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/03/25/owners.meeting/index.html?eref=writers]Opinions on penalties for Redskins, Cowboys vary as meeting looms - Don Banks - SI.com[/url]

I love this...

[QUOTE]While league sources said the process of having the matter settled by an arbitrator always makes the outcome of the grievance process more difficult to predict, Mara expressed no sense of concern. But other league sources weren't as confident, and acknowledged that the size of cap penalties might be reduced as part of a final ruling, or perhaps even overturned.

"That might happen,'' said one league source. "Who knows where this goes with an arbitrator involved? There might have to be some ground given. But it really doesn't seem to be (NFL commissioner) Roger Goodell's style to change his mind to any great degree when it comes to his decisions.''
[/QUOTE]

I love that there are owners less confident then Mara. I also love the fact they belive it might get over turned. The last line is even more funnier... Goodell style to change his mind to any great degree when it comes to his decisions..... I guess the writer forgot by the end of his article that Goodell has no authority at this point or decisions to make. By lumping the NFLPA in the arguement the two teams took Goodell out of the equation. So if there is a decision to reverse the punishment Goodell won't have any control over it.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Funny how nearly everyone sides with the players in the cba talks. Now they want to blame the owners that DID give that money to players. And they call us greedy... yet several teams spent well under the previous floor. And Snyder once again hasn't raised ticket prices. Greedy?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

I hope Mara gets anally raped without lube for this bullshit!!! Skins get all their cash back and compensatory picks, this is war.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37421/im-not-sure-john-mara-should-be-talking]I'm not sure John Mara should be talking - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Mara calling the Redskins and the Cowboys cheaters in this incident is the pot calling the kettle black. I mean we've gone over it a million times but theres a list of something like 9 teams that used the uncapped year to "create a competitive advantage" and the only 2 teams that get actual salary cap sanctions are his division rivals.

Taking $46 million in cap space from your division rivals for violating a rule that technically didn't exist, thats pretty f'ing dirty. If anyones exploiting a loophole it's Mara using his position as head of the competition committee.

I personally can't wait until they overturn this in arbitration.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Dude should seriously get with Irsay and do a Twitter....union...thing...
His thoughts may not taste as pleasant the second time around...

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;903689]Mara calling the Redskins and the Cowboys cheaters in this incident is the pot calling the kettle black. I mean we've gone over it a million times but theres a list of something like 9 teams that used the uncapped year to "create a competitive advantage" and the only 2 teams that get actual salary cap sanctions are his division rivals.

Taking $46 million in cap space from your division rivals for violating a rule that technically didn't exist, thats pretty f'ing dirty. If anyones exploiting a loophole it's Mara using his position as head of the competition committee.

I personally can't wait until they overturn this in arbitration.[/quote]

If Mara had tried to penalize nearly one-third of the teams in the league, he wouldn't have been able to get enough support to go after the teams he considered to be the worst offenders.

Since you mentioned Mara's less than pure motives, I'd like to point out that, after the two teams were penalized, the cap room was then spread among the rest of the teams which gave Mara's cap-starved team an additional $1.6M to spend.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;903689]Mara calling the Redskins and the Cowboys cheaters in this incident is the pot calling the kettle black. I mean we've gone over it a million times [B]but theres a list of something like 9 teams that used the uncapped year to "create a competitive advantage"[/B] and the only 2 teams that get actual salary cap sanctions are his division rivals.

Taking $46 million in cap space from your division rivals for violating a rule that technically didn't exist, thats pretty f'ing dirty. If anyones exploiting a loophole it's Mara using his position as head of the competition committee.

I personally can't wait until they overturn this in arbitration.[/quote]

Exactly. The Saints were one also... no punishment. I know it has been said but if they were treating it like any other capped yr then why didn't they punish the teams who fell below the CAP floor also?

Because the whole point of the agreement was to cheat the players out of money. By keeping costs down they could try to point out to the players that the reason for the low revenue was because they didn't make as much as everyone thought they did. So in reality they didn't care if teams spent below the CAP floor.

The whole thing is BS. Either punish everyone even if it was $100,000 they spent or 36 mill and punish the ones who spent too low or not at all or don't punish at all. But the main issue is how are you going to punish someone for not violating any laws? But it's ok for everyone else to break the labor laws and not get punished. WTF?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;903695]If Mara had tried to penalize nearly one-third of the teams in the league, he wouldn't have been able to get enough support to go after the teams he considered to be the worst offenders.

Since you mentioned Mara's less than pure motives, I'd like to point out that, after the two teams were penalized, the cap room was then spread among the rest of the teams which gave Mara's cap-starved team an additional $1.6M to spend.[/quote]

I don't have a problem with the Exec commitee bringing it up, but it should have been shelved until the next owners meeting so all the owners could hear the allegations and hear the Redskins and Dallas's arguements on the issue and all should have voted on it. The problem? the Skins would have spent the money by then and had picked up all the really good players leaving everyone else to pick up the scraps. or so they were afraid would happen. Punish first, then give back if you have to but you've forced competativeness by that point. So what happens if the Arbiture decides they should give back the CAP space? which teams spent their 1.6 mill? and can they give it back after it's been spent?

They should have to give all back or the majority and for their illegal and immoral act they should be forced to give both teams a compensatory pick at the end of RD 1.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

It's not just that Mara is being a butthead.

Even worse, this event is certain to be mentioned by players in the next CBA discussions, if not sooner. Mara is inviting labor-owner disaster.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

As I said earlier, one of the concerns for the owners is that, if this goes nuclear, there may be a chance that tthe collusion suits may be re-opened. Apparently, more than one person has had this thought:

"The union had to drop all pending litigation against the league as part of the Brady settlement last year when the lockout ended. That included the collusion charges they filed against the league for the suspicions they had about this kind of 2010 activity. [B]Mara's admission could well qualify as new evidence that could allow the union to file new charges[/B]."

From the Graziano blog cited above.

The only thing I'm worried about is that we get our cap space restored and then have nothing to spend it on. A draft pick would be amazing, but I don't see it happening.

I know this is going to be discussed at the owners meetings. Best possible result is an agreement is hammered out there.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

It's about Fletcher and 2013.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=VegasSkinsFan;903704]The only thing I'm worried about is that we get our cap space restored and then have nothing to spend it on. A draft pick would be amazing, but I don't see it happening.

I know this is going to be discussed at the owners meetings. Best possible result is an agreement is hammered out there.[/quote]

I think they could have a legit argument for a draft pick. Throwing the penalty on the 'Skins on the eve of free agency forced a change of plans, even if it was minor, and may be one of the reasons the 'Skins haven't done more. If the Skins can prove that argument, maybe Judge Burbank might award them a draft pick to make up for the restrictions they faced during free agency.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mooby;903706]I think they could have a legit argument for a draft pick. Throwing the penalty on the 'Skins on the eve of free agency forced a change of plans, even if it was minor, and may be one of the reasons the 'Skins haven't done more. If the Skins can prove that argument, maybe Judge Burbank might award them a draft pick to make up for the restrictions they faced during free agency.[/quote]

See I would love to ask for the draft pick to but at the same time I don't want to push our luck.

I don't see this going to arbitrator. No way the nfl wants to have to answer question regarding collusion in front of the nflpa. I'm not sure if testimony given to the arbitrator would be sealed or not.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mooby;903706]I think they could have a legit argument for a draft pick. Throwing the penalty on the 'Skins on the eve of free agency forced a change of plans, even if it was minor, and may be one of the reasons the 'Skins haven't done more. If the Skins can prove that argument, maybe Judge Burbank might award them a draft pick to make up for the restrictions they faced during free agency.[/quote]

Yes, would love getting a pick, though I think it is unlikely. Seems everyone outside of owners believe these punishments to be patently illegal, and should be overturned. Since just giving us money without anyone to spend it on doesn't make up for it (they cannot give us back the FAs we missed on - like a quality RT, top tier WR, LB like Lofton, etc) -- would be completely reasonable to give us back a draft pick. Perhaps #3rd or 4th round pick would be nice.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

what would the nfl have done if we were over the cap? or barely under it? has the nfl touched on this?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Btw, anyone know how long this process could take? For example, if they ruled in our favor (or not), does it usually take days, weeks or months? The sooner the better, would be nice to wrap up FAs like Fletch and take what's left on the market as soon as we can.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=ethat001;903717]Btw, anyone know how long this process could take? For example, if they ruled in our favor (or not), does it usually take days, weeks or months? The sooner the better, would be nice to wrap up FAs like Fletch and take what's left on the market as soon as we can.[/quote]

I'd think that it would depend on the decision. I'd expect, if we get something in return, that we would get it next year.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

so would it be fair if we stripped NY of all its draft picks the day before the draft? since taking $36mill the day before FA starts doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of competitive balance...

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=VegasSkinsFan;903704]The only thing I'm worried about is that we get our cap space restored and then have nothing to spend it on. A draft pick would be amazing, but I don't see it happening.

I know this is going to be discussed at the owners meetings. Best possible result is an agreement is hammered out there.[/quote]

Even if it doesn't help us now, It will mean that we won't have to worry about taking an 18 mil cap hit in 2013.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Mattyk;903687][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37421/im-not-sure-john-mara-should-be-talking]I'm not sure John Mara should be talking - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Boom roasted. That is all.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Mattyk;903687][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/37421/im-not-sure-john-mara-should-be-talking]I'm not sure John Mara should be talking - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

On the contrary. I would love to hear more of what John Mara has to say. For God's sake it's a free country, let the man speak to his hearts content.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

The more that comes out the more convinced I am that a "settlement" is unlikely. I can't imagine JJ or DS taking those comments "in stride". Let Mara keep talking like that and he may actually goad them into really going nuclear.

Forget the penalty for a moment and just consider the manner in which it was imposed. I'd be almost more angered by the fact it was decided on in secret and announced on the eve of FA than anything. It is about as duplicitous as it gets.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Mara is a f*cking idiot and it looks like he is behind or at least played a big part. Everyone should thank the Giants organization if we have more labor issues sooner rather than later.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Avks_TwhkFK0254WFQ4I3f9DubYF?slug=jc-cole_redskins_cowboys_salary_cap_john_mara_owners_032512]Giants co-owner John Mara defended the NFL's cap penalties for the Cowboys, Redskins - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

wat a surprise

[QUOTE=That Guy;903719]so would it be fair if we stripped NY of all its draft picks the day before the draft? since taking $36mill the day before FA starts doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of competitive balance...[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't want that any more than what happened to us.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

NY won't get any punishment, they're not involved except w Mara, and this not relevant to their franchise. The question will be how to fix what's been done. If this is overturned, do we get $1.6 million extra, etc.

I'd say optimistically -- if they return cap space, it would be great to have it for next year anyway. This year will be difficult anyway with a new QB, and by next year we would be prepared to make a more serious playoff run.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Also, any cap space that goes unused in 2012 could be carried over to 2013. Getting $18m this year - even if it can't be used - can also be tacked on to 2013.

Given that the 'Skins are bringing in a rookie QB, maybe the reduced cap space this year helps temper expectations* a bit, and then the 'Skins have all the room in the world to move next year.


*LOL at tempering 'Skins fans' expectations