Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917397]Where do you get that from? That's why there was a huge debate about if OJ was going to wear the #21.[/quote]who was debating? i just get it from the fact that no one else has worn that number since sean took it in 2005. it's a popular number, when is the last time no one on the team wore it? it wasn't this millennium, all signs point to unofficially retired

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917399]who was debating? i just get it from the fact that no one else has worn that number since sean took it in 2005. it's a popular number, when is the last time no one on the team wore it? it wasn't this millennium, all signs point to unofficially retired[/quote]

I think the only reason nobody has wore it is because they don't want to offend the fan's memory of #21.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/oj-atogwe-switches-to-no-20-out-of-respect-for-sean-taylor/2011/07/29/gIQAUmGLhI_blog.html]O.J. Atogwe switches to No. 20 out of respect for Sean Taylor - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

OJ was within his right to wear the #21 if he wanted, and probably could have. I don't think it's unofficially retired like the other numbers, and quite frankly doesn't deserve to be unofficially retired either. That's just my personal opinion on the matter even though many may disagree.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917400]I think the only reason nobody has wore it because they don't want to offend the fan's memory of #21.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/oj-atogwe-switches-to-no-20-out-of-respect-for-sean-taylor/2011/07/29/gIQAUmGLhI_blog.html]O.J. Atogwe switches to No. 20 out of respect for Sean Taylor - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

OJ was within his right to wear the #21 if he wanted, and probably could have. I don't think it's unofficially retired like the other numbers, and quite frankly doesn't deserve to be unofficially retired either. That's just my personal opinion on the matter even though many may disagree.[/quote]"Safety O.J. Atogwe had worn No. 21 his entire life, he said. But joining the Redskins and hitting the practice field for the first time with his new teammates Friday, [B]he knew wearing No. 21 wasn’t an option[/B]"

that's what unofficially retired means to me, i don't know what it means to you

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917402]"Safety O.J. Atogwe had worn No. 21 his entire life, he said. But joining the Redskins and hitting the practice field for the first time with his new teammates Friday, [B]he knew wearing No. 21 wasn’t an option[/B]"

that's what unofficially retired means to me, i don't know what it means to you[/quote]

You are reading way too much into that. He's not saying that because of it being unofficially retired, he's saying that because he knows what type of memory and weight Sean Taylor still carries with the fans.

He did it out of respect.

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2011/07/28/oj-atogwe-plays-the-guessing-game/]The Redskins Blog | OJ Atogwe Plays The Guessing Game[/url]

[quote]he made it clear via his Twitter that he would honor Taylor’s memory and switch to a different number:[/quote]

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917404]You are reading way too much into that. He's not saying that because of it being unofficially retired, he's saying that because he knows what type of memory and weight Sean Taylor still carries with the fans.

He did it out of respect.

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2011/07/28/oj-atogwe-plays-the-guessing-game/]The Redskins Blog | OJ Atogwe Plays The Guessing Game[/url][/quote]i got that part. it's a popular number, when is the last time no one on the team wore it? what does unofficially retiring a # mean to you?

*edit
and who was involved in the "huge debate"?

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917407]i got that part. it's a popular number, when is the last time no one on the team wore it? what does unofficially retiring a # mean to you?[/quote]


It's not just a popular number, it's the number of a deceased Redskin who fans have put on this grand pedestal, even though it's not warranted. Players who come here from other teams having wore #21 know and understand very soon not to bother wearing it due to the controversy and probably hate they'll receive from fans for doing so. Fans blew up OJ about the number, and I'm quite positive the media made it a point to bring it up with him in interviews. Why would he (or any player) subject themselves to the wrath of fans like that when he could simply avoid that by wearing a different number.

I think you'll have a better shot of some kid grabbing #28 or #44 before you will #21...lol

Who was debating it? The correct question was who wasn't debating it in the DC area.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2011/03/should_oj_atogwe_or_any_other.html]The Early Lead - Should O.J. Atogwe, or any other Redskins player, wear No. 21?[/url]

Many of the other Redskins media outlets were discussing this as well back when it occurred.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917410]It's not just a popular number, it's the number of a deceased Redskin who fans have put on this grand pedestal, even though it's not warranted. Players who come here from other teams having wore #21 know and understand very soon not to bother wearing it due to the controversy and probably hate they'll receive from fans for doing so. Fans blew up OJ about the number, and I'm quite positive the media made it a point to bring it up with him in interviews. Why would he (or any player) subject themselves to the wrath of fans like that when he could simply avoid that by wearing a different number.

I think you'll have a better shot of some kid grabbing #28 or #44 before you will #21...lol

Who was debating it? The correct question was who wasn't debating it in the DC area.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2011/03/should_oj_atogwe_or_any_other.html]The Early Lead - Should O.J. Atogwe, or any other Redskins player, wear No. 21?[/url]

Many of the other Redskins media outlets were discussing this as well back when it occurred.[/quote]and for the third time, what does unofficially retiring a # mean to you?

so there was no debate within the organization about oj wearing #21?

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917412]and for the third time, what does unofficially retiring a # mean to you?

so there was no debate within the organization about oj wearing #21?[/quote]

When the team doesn't issue a number out is what I would call "unofficially retiring number", but I think we disagree to why it's not being issued out. You think it's not being issued out because it's a "unofficial retired number." I think the #21 isn't being issued because nobody in their right mind would ask for it.

I couldn't speak about any debate within the organization, but my guess is not really. Only fans make a big deal about such things. Smoot could tell you more than I could on that front. When I said there was a debate, I was referring publicly. (media and fans)

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

fred smoot 2001-2004
deion sanders 2000
mark mcmillian 1999
terry allen 1995-1998
deral boykin??? 1994
earnest byner 1993-back into the 80s

*edit
but it hasn't been issued since sean died, smells like unofficially retired to me

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917413]When the team doesn't issue a number out is what I would call "unofficially retiring number"[/quote]good enough for me

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

I think the line between unofficially retired and "no player would ask for it" has been sufficiently blurred enough that we won't see anyone wear it again. It's like NC said, no player in their right mind would ask for it, and I don't think any of the higher ups in the organization (like DS) would allow it to happen. Snyder is probably the last remnant of the organization in place from when Taylor played, but I'd think he wouldn't want to see another player wearing Taylor's number (and he has the power to make that happen.)

Call it what you want but I doubt we'll see another player wearing Taylor's number again for a long time. And imo, that's the way it should be. A lot of us got attached to Taylor, me included, (and probably DS included), and I'm one of those people who think the number has been unofficially retired. NC you probably don't care because you never knew the guy, but think about the people who worked at Redskins Park who knew Taylor, and who are still there. I doubt they'd want to see his number issued to anyone, and their opinion definitely weighs more than ours.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=mooby;917454] NC you probably don't care because you never knew the guy, but think about the people who worked at Redskins Park who knew Taylor, and who are still there. I doubt they'd want to see his number issued to anyone, and their opinion definitely weighs more than ours.[/quote]


It's not that I don't care. I always hate to see a person die before their time should be up, and seeing a child lose their father. That first and foremost is the key thing here, regardless of what he did on a football field. However, it's time to move on. Taylor isn't coming back, and his death dealt us a huge blow on a emotional and talent level. I will not make him into something larger than he is. Sure there is a ton of unrealized and wasted talent that has left fans wondering what could have been. We can ask that of any player lost due to death or injury. Malcolm Kelly for instance. How good could he have been had it not been for injuries? I know it's not the same, but I'm making the point that we can "what if" everything.

Also, everybody from the coaching staff back in his time is gone if I'm correct, so there really isn't anything connecting them to Sean Taylor. If Gibbs were here still, I would say most definitely you have a point. The only people from the team still left is Santana Moss and Cooley.(anybody else I'm missing?)

Look at the Darrent Williams situation as well in Denver, somebody already has his number (Moreno). Before you say, "they aren't even close to being in the same class of player", I think you really need to stop and look at the overall numbers. Taylor had one great year in the 3-1/2 he played here, but because he had some monstrous hits, people want to equate him to something he's not. Williams was a very solid player for the Broncos, and I imagine their fans think the same thing? (not sure though) I think you'll see somebody wearing the #21 in time but probably not within the next few years. Probably not as long as fans keep hounding players about it as well.

Remember when Bruce Allen came in and moved Sean Taylor's locker out?

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2010/04/16/sean-taylors-locker-to-be-moved-to-fedexfield/]The Redskins Blog | Sean Taylor's Locker To Be Moved To FedExField[/url]

Remember the big stink from fans about that? This was their way of saying, it's time we move on as a franchise and as a football family.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Guess we're getting to the point now where this thread is running on fumes

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;917467]Guess we're getting to the point now where this thread is running on fumes[/quote]

It is. It'll probably be that way until June 1st cuts. Then it'll be popping again. :headbange

Unless you got some news you want to share? :)

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

21 will not be worn for a long time. Sean T's play was well known as well as the love people had for him. nobody will ask for #21 and if they have the nerve to do so, they wont get it...

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;917469]21 will not be worn for a long time. Sean T's play was well known as well as the love people had for him. nobody will ask for #21 and if they have the nerve to do so, they wont get it...[/quote]

Hard to believe it will be 5 years ago this November.


Not gonna lie, but I feel like in a year or two you can let someone wear 21 because I think five years is enough to honor the guy. Hell he didn't even play for 4 years anyway. We've paid our respects to him, now let a great player wear it.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917414]fred smoot 2001-2004
deion sanders 2000
mark mcmillian 1999
terry allen 1995-1998
deral boykin??? 1994
earnest byner 1993-back into the 80s

*edit
but it hasn't been issued since sean died, smells like unofficially retired to me[/quote]

Smells of a tribute to me, but I'd prefer they either retire the number or pass it on to someone to wear. Maybe the Skins are waiting for the trial to end. I get the retiring of numbers but you can't retire all the numbers or the team would have no numbers to wear. I'd rather see him up in the ring of fire, maybe some other memorial inside the stadium, and an artists rendition of him on the wall at Redskins Park.

I won't get into how I don't get the pedistal thing.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917463]It's not that I don't care. I always hate to see a person die before their time should be up, and seeing a child lose their father. That first and foremost is the key thing here, regardless of what he did on a football field. However, it's time to move on. Taylor isn't coming back, and his death dealt us a huge blow on a emotional and talent level. I will not make him into something larger than he is. Sure there is a ton of unrealized and wasted talent that has left fans wondering what could have been. We can ask that of any player lost due to death or injury. Malcolm Kelly for instance. How good could he have been had it not been for injuries? I know it's not the same, but I'm making the point that we can "what if" everything.

Also, everybody from the coaching staff back in his time is gone if I'm correct, so there really isn't anything connecting them to Sean Taylor. If Gibbs were here still, I would say most definitely you have a point. The only people from the team still left is Santana Moss and Cooley.(anybody else I'm missing?)

Look at the Darrent Williams situation as well in Denver, somebody already has his number (Moreno). Before you say, "they aren't even close to being in the same class of player", I think you really need to stop and look at the overall numbers. Taylor had one great year in the 3-1/2 he played here, but because he had some monstrous hits, people want to equate him to something he's not. Williams was a very solid player for the Broncos, and I imagine their fans think the same thing? (not sure though) I think you'll see somebody wearing the #21 in time but probably not within the next few years. Probably not as long as fans keep hounding players about it as well.

Remember when Bruce Allen came in and moved Sean Taylor's locker out?

[URL="http://blog.redskins.com/2010/04/16/sean-taylors-locker-to-be-moved-to-fedexfield/"]The Redskins Blog | Sean Taylor's Locker To Be Moved To FedExField[/URL]

Remember the big stink from fans about that? This was their way of saying, it's time we move on as a franchise and as a football family.[/quote]

Ditto. I get you. But as others have said I'm guessing the team is not allowing players to use the number. So retire the thing and lets move on. Instead of keeping it out there hanging. On a side note I lost my father 2 yrs ago and find it weird how fans talk about and keep bringing up ST more then I talk about my father. .... and I loved my father. Although I'll admit I wouldn't bring him up to you guys. lol.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Well the only number the Redskins have officially retired is 33, everything else is unoffically retired. I love ST but I doubt they'd retire his number before guys like Monk and Green.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917414]fred smoot 2001-2004
deion sanders 2000
mark mcmillian 1999
terry allen 1995-1998
deral boykin??? 1994
earnest byner 1993-back into the 80s

*edit
but it hasn't been issued since sean died, smells like unofficially retired to me[/quote]

Redskins Players who wore Jersey #21:

Terry Allen
Roy Barni
Deral Boykin
Tom Brown
Earnest Byner
Jimmy Carr
Don Deeks
Gary Glick
Rob Goode
George Harold
Tim Jessie
Larry Jones
Mark McMillian
Gene Mingo
Mike Nelms
Les Olsson
Deion Sanders
Doyle Schick
Fred Smoot
Mike Sommer
Sean Taylor
Frank Walton
Bill Ward

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=los panda;917374]was he able to wear #47 because he was gibbler's h-back or because 80-89 were not available?[/quote]

More likely the # situation because he was a TE in college.

Had to look it up because I had never seen a college picture of Cooley.

[IMG]http://www.discountdisplaycases.com/images/products/p-265206-chris-cooley-autographed-hand-signed-utah-state-aggies-8x10-photo-pba-3444.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;917810]Redskins Players who wore Jersey #21:

Terry Allen
Roy Barni
Deral Boykin
Tom Brown
Earnest Byner
Jimmy Carr
Don Deeks
Gary Glick
Rob Goode
George Harold
Tim Jessie
Larry Jones
Mark McMillian
Gene Mingo
Mike Nelms
Les Olsson
Deion Sanders
Doyle Schick
Fred Smoot
Mike Sommer
Sean Taylor
Frank Walton
Bill Ward[/quote]did anyone wear it in 1988? i think that was the last year it was vacant since sean died.

what site is this from, or did you do your own research?

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;917812]More likely the # situation because he was a TE in college.[/quote]10-19 was opened to all wrs in 2004 (before 2004 they could only wear 10-19 if 80-89 were taken). tes still go by the similar pre-2004 practice (can't wear 40-49 unless 80-89 are taken)

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

cooley wore #47 because he was technically an H-back. in college he was a b-back (a fullback that went out to catch passes pretty much 100% of the time). he had rediculous numbers in college.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/brian-banks-lines-up-tryouts/]Brian Banks lines up tryouts with Seahawks, three others | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

it was nice while it lasted

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/02/redskins-cut-leigh-torrence/]Redskins cut Leigh Torrence | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Yep Torrence cut to make room for CB Morgan Trent, been in the league for a hot minute. Been with the Bengals and Jaguars.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Didn't see that anyone posted this so ..... It will be interesting if true:

[url=http://www.buccaneers101.com/2012/06/01/source-washington-redskins-are-interested-in-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cb-aqib-talib/]Source: Washington Redskins are Interested in Tampa Bay Buccaneers CB Aqib Talib | Buccaneers 101 | Sports Media 101[/url]

[QUOTE]Now, it appears that the Redskins may go after another Buccaneers defensive back. Buccaneers101.com has learned from a league source that the Redskins are interested in acquiring cornerback Aqib Talib. The source told Buccaneers101.com that Washington has explored the idea of trading for Talib but is waiting for the outcome of Talib's upcoming trial to see whether or not he will face jail time or suspension from NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
[/QUOTE]

There is more to read of the story, click on the link.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=SBXVII;919689]Didn't see that anyone posted this so ..... It will be interesting if true:

[url=http://www.buccaneers101.com/2012/06/01/source-washington-redskins-are-interested-in-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cb-aqib-talib/]Source: Washington Redskins are Interested in Tampa Bay Buccaneers CB Aqib Talib | Buccaneers 101 | Sports Media 101[/url]



There is more to read of the story, click on the link.[/quote]

Not sure about him. On one hand he's talented and personally I liked him a good bit when he came out in 2008, and anyone that knows how much I hate corners understands how high of a compliment that is.

On the other hand we already went through the Haynesworth debacle and I don't necessarily see this guy having a Sean Taylor like turnaround as Sean was always a good guy at heart. Talib just seems self-centered and trigger happy in more ways then one.

I mean the team has worked this hard to turn around the culture that weeds out selfish players so I don't know why they would want to risk that at this point.

If he comes in humble with his head down and his mouth shut he will be a fantastic addition. However if he comes in as the same loud mouth trouble maker then it will be a disaster. Would at the very least need him to play for a below market team friendly contract to help keep him in line.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=SBXVII;919689]Didn't see that anyone posted this so ..... It will be interesting if true:

[url=http://www.buccaneers101.com/2012/06/01/source-washington-redskins-are-interested-in-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cb-aqib-talib/]Source: Washington Redskins are Interested in Tampa Bay Buccaneers CB Aqib Talib | Buccaneers 101 | Sports Media 101[/url]



There is more to read of the story, click on the link.[/quote]Very good man to man corner. Finds the ball well.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;919692]Very good man to man corner. Finds the ball well.[/quote]

Only because receivers are worried about a warning shot across the face.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=SBXVII;919689]Didn't see that anyone posted this so ..... It will be interesting if true:

[url=http://www.buccaneers101.com/2012/06/01/source-washington-redskins-are-interested-in-tampa-bay-buccaneers-cb-aqib-talib/]Source: Washington Redskins are Interested in Tampa Bay Buccaneers CB Aqib Talib | Buccaneers 101 | Sports Media 101[/url]



There is more to read of the story, click on the link.[/quote]

This team likes to talk about bringing in character guys that fit what we're trying to do here, and yet we hear things like this in the media? Something's not adding up, the last thing I want is another talented egomaniac who's always stirring shit up and making us look bad.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

depends on what we give up

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Talib is worth maybe a 3rd or 4th round draft choice. The thing is he has 17 interceptions in four seasons which is highly impressive.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

An intriguing player -- great talent, very young. Has not finished the last two seasons due to injury, but would expect him to be okay physically going forward. It would be nice to have that talent on our roster, and with him our secondary would immediately be much stronger.

The character issues -- you'd expect Raheem Morris to have the inside info on that, and he believes in him, I'd be willing to take a chance for a later draft pick & contract which protects us against his problems off the field.

Problem players are not good for the locker room, but if the rest of the locker room is supportive, one or two players may not be toxic. I'd hope.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[quote=mooby;919695]This team likes to talk about bringing in character guys that fit what we're trying to do here, and yet we hear things like this in the media? Something's not adding up, [B]the last thing I want is another talented egomaniac who's always stirring shit up[/B] and making us look bad.[/quote]
THAT would be my first concern......talent level notwithstanding

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Aquib Talib has had some problems off the field. Just like Pac Man Jones the year he played for the Cowboys, Jerry Jones regretted signing him because Jones couldn't stay out of trouble. Talib, as reported, could be headed to prison. He's a great talent, but there should be concerns about his behavior off the field. Just because Raheem Morris is the Redskins defensive backs coach and was Talib's head coach in Tampa Bay doesn't guarantee that Talib will be a great addition and fit in or stay out of trouble. Signing him could prove too risky.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Talib is what they affectionately call a knucklehead and may have some jail time/suspension time unresolved.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

[edit - double post]

I think players with character issues come in two types: (1) Players who are bad for the locker room, and (2) Players who get in trouble off the field. I think those are two different things, and often go together - but not always. If he is not toxic to the locker room, he may be worth the risk. If he's definitely headed to prison, then wouldn't consider it.

Re: 2012 Redskins Free Agency (and Trades) Tracker (Chapter III)
 

Talib is a great player but a team cancer. Think along the lines of Brandon Marshall/TO but for CBs