Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

i just realized one of the jerseys i am selling is a kirk cousins michigan state. it was a tj duckett when i bought it

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I'm not a great admirer of Cousins but I would take him over Tebow any day.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

If the intent is to have a back-up that can win games I would take Tebow in a heartbeat.
But the media circus that follows Tebow would be huge distraction, especially for team with a rookie QB.

But in a vacuum I take Tebow.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

ESPN NFL AUDIBLES TV SHOW 2 QBs talk about the Cousin pick:

Steve Young: What's the message from the Redskins to Griffin?
Trent Dilfer: I can't figure it out.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;915245]ESPN NFL AUDIBLES TV SHOW 2 QBs talk about the Cousin pick:

Steve Young: What's the message from the Redskins to Griffin?
Trent Dilfer: I can't figure it out.[/quote]i can help trent out

the message is we gave up two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up 4 spots to get you. we believe that you are the future of our franchise, we trust you, we believe in you, etc.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;915245]ESPN NFL AUDIBLES TV SHOW 2 QBs talk about the Cousin pick:

Steve Young: What's the message from the Redskins to Griffin?
[B]Trent Dilfer: I can't figure it out[/B].[/quote]


IMO the dumbest QB to ever win a SB. Now goes on as if he knows it all.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;915263]IMO the dumbest QB to ever win a SB. Now goes on as if he knows it all.[/quote]
Yeah, I am sick of hearing it. Fourth round draft choices are usually gone after year two or three. What the hell is the big deal. If they think he will be a good player, then it was worth it. We will see how it turns out.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=los panda;915256]i can help trent out

the message is we gave up two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up 4 spots to get you. we believe that you are the future of our franchise, we trust you, we believe in you, etc.[/quote]
AND if you can't go armed with that knowledge, you're to much of a puss to make it in the NFL anyway.....
These...over-analysts seriously need to give it a rest......

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;915269]Yeah, I am sick of hearing it. Fourth round draft choices are usually gone after year two or three. What the hell is the big deal. If they think he will be a good player, then it was worth it. We will see how it turns out.[/quote]

Totally agree.

And just to add, adding Cousins sends no message to Griffin whatsoever, except for you're the starter, he's the backup. Period.

Still can't believe a 4th rounder has generated so much drama.

:doh:

[QUOTE=Mattyk;915274]Totally agree.

And just to add, adding Cousins sends no message to Griffin whatsoever, except for you're the starter, he's the backup. Period.

Still can't believe a 4th rounder has generated so much drama.

:doh:[/QUOTE]

Wait we drafted RGIII?

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Mattyk;915274]Totally agree.

And just to add, adding Cousins sends no message to Griffin whatsoever, except for you're the starter, he's the backup. Period.

Still can't believe a 4th rounder has generated so much drama.

:doh:[/quote]

It's only drama because of those who are outside the Redskins organization questioning the Cousins pick. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan selected Cousins for a reason. When you look at our QB play last season, we can clearly see that we not only needed a valuable starter but a decent back up. Although Grossman and Beck played both roles, neither one of them solidified themselves even as a proven back up QB. That's how terrible and awful the quarterback play was last season. Picking Cousins in the 4th round was definitely a very good selection.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;914111]I would like to take this discussion in a slightly different direction.

First of all, I liked Kirk Cousins as a QB at Mich State. I thought he would go earlier in the draft than the 4th round. So, that is sort of a "value pick" for the Skins.

Second, there are more than a few examples of recent NFL teams who have needed a competent back-up Qb to make it thru the season. QBs get injured; RG3 is a mobile QB so he is likely to be hit more often than some other QBs; [I]ergo[/I]... Cousins may not be a competent back-up by the first week of October in 2012, but if the Skins are looking for a back-up to take the field that early, there are far bigger problems facing this team.

From a "football perspective", I like the pick.

Here is my concern.

The Redskins now have two young QBs both of whom have always been "the man" on their teams. Cousins knows - - because the Shanahans have told him - - that he is going to be the backup and RG3 knows - - because the Shanahans have told him - - that he will be the franchise QB. That's fine and dandy - - unless - -
[INDENT]RG3 obviously struggles with the offense and Cousins has to come into a game in the 3rd or 4th quarter because RG3 is just not playing well.[/INDENT]
[B]I don't care about the fan reaction in the circumstance; what I would fear would be the way the Shanahans will deal with the two young QBs in that circumstance. Remember how deftly and smoothly they handled benching Donovan McNabb in Detroit. Remember how skillfully they pulled Rex for Beck last year - - asserting that Beck was the best QB to come out of college in his year - - only to have to go back to Rex in another smooth tranistion a few games later.

The coaches did not handle either situation well. And a few of the QB jugglings in Denver were not handled perfectly either...

My concern is that the Shanahans might - - I said MIGHT - - not be well-equipped to deal with an on-the-field problem of that nature.

Hopefully it will not come to that. If it does, hopefully the Shanahans will handle it just a tad better than they did the McNabb/Grossman fandango[/B].[/quote]

I was not happy with the pick when it happened,but theres been some very good arguments that have swayed me some.But I think sportscurmudgeon brings up a great point that is being overlooked by most people who are in favor of this pick.
HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT THE SHANAHANS WILL HANDLE THIS QB SITUATION THE RIGHT WAY AFTER THEIR TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD SO FAR? I have none,zero,zip,nada

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;915298]I was not happy with the pick when it happened,but theres been some very good arguments that have swayed me some.But I think sportscurmudgeon brings up a great point that is being overlooked by most people who are in favor of this pick.
HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT THE SHANAHANS WILL HANDLE THIS QB SITUATION THE RIGHT WAY AFTER THEIR TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD SO FAR? I have none,zero,zip,nada[/QUOTE]

Because if the Shanahans mess with Griffin like they did with McNabb they will be fired and run out of town. Shanahan is linked to Griffin and if he fails then new coach will be brought in.


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I am here: [url]http://tapatalk.com/map.php?dfd4l5[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=redskins5044;915308]Because if the Shanahans mess with Griffin like they did with McNabb they will be fired and run out of town. Shanahan is linked to Griffin and if he fails then new coach will be brought in.


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I am here: [url]http://tapatalk.com/map.php?dfd4l5[/url][/quote]

I think Shanahan will have a few more years to turn things around. You have to assume he is at least buying himself another year with two rookie QBs on the roster.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

shoot, another 2 years at least.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I 100% disagree with the terrible track record notion...but I'm tired of that debate and eager to move forward

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I think it's a little more clear now that McNabb was no innocent party.

And really, is there such thing as a smooth way to bench a QB?

I'm with SS, ready to move on.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

We never should have taken Griffin. Jonathan Crompton, our real starter, is going to be threatened by the Griffin pick.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I love Cousins but there is no way in hell he will be legitimately challenging RG3 any time soon and I mean that from the point of forgetting about their draft position and assuming they're on an even playing field and have an equal chance to compete for the starting job.

Right now both players suck at reading and reacting to pro defenses, such is the plight of the rookie QB in the NFL.

When Cousins drops back he is going to have that 3 or 4 seconds to find a receiver and get the ball to him and in college there were a lot of times where he struggled with that and ended up forcing some plays. With RG3 and his mobility there will be plays where that 3 to 4 seconds turns into 5 or 6 and that will compensate his inability to read defenses for the first year and a half and allow him to not only find open receivers but give the receivers time to escape and get open for a big play. And the thing that makes Griffin so special is he can find these receivers as he really is a pass first QB that happens to be able to run.

On top of that the thing I've been preaching this whole offseason is RGIII's ability to open up cutback lanes on handoffs by faking the bootleg. As good as Cousins might be one day he will never have the type of effect that Griffin creates by being a running threat.

Griffin will be better with the starters in preseason then Cousins will be facing 2nd and 3rd string defenses in preseason. And thats not a knock on Cousins, Griffin is just that freaking good.

This is the Luck-Griffin effect all over again. When Griffin was making headlines before the draft it seemed like a lot of people forgot how good of a football player Andrew Luck was. Now that Cousins is getting all the headlines Griffin's all-world talent is somehow being lost in the fray.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Mattyk;915341]I think it's a little more clear now that McNabb was no innocent party.

And really, is there such thing as a smooth way to bench a QB?

I'm with SS, ready to move on.[/quote]

I hope someone signs McNabb, I really don't want to see him on TV any more then I have to.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

mcnabb is a turd. jim brown and art monk need to talk to him

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/griffin-hopes-cousins-can-be-the-kubiak-to-his-elway/]Griffin hopes Cousins can be the Kubiak to his Elway | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Sounds like Griffin is already doing great.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

Was it me or did Griffin, during his post rookie camp interview, allude to the fact that the Skins were planning on taking CB Omar Boldin with their 4th round pick but the Broncos took him with the pick just before them? So, then we took Cousins instead. I may have heard that wrong.

Slightly off topic but an interesting footnote, nonetheless.

As for Cousins, I was happy with the pick and I think the members of the media that are trying to create a controversy (watch how many ?s were about Cousins during that same interview) are complete boobs! (the interview is available on redskins.com)

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=81forHOF;915610]Was it me or did Griffin, during his post rookie camp interview, [B]allude to the fact that the Skins were planning on taking CB Omar Boldin with their 4th round pick but the Broncos took him with the pick just before them? So, then we took Cousins instead. I may have heard that wrong. [/B]

Slightly off topic but an interesting footnote, nonetheless.

As for Cousins, I was happy with the pick and I think the members of the media that are trying to create a controversy (watch how many ?s were about Cousins during that same interview) are complete boobs! (the interview is available on redskins.com)[/quote]

Yeah seemed to be what he was saying.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=81forHOF;915610]Was it me or did Griffin, during his post rookie camp interview, allude to the fact that the Skins were planning on taking CB Omar Boldin with their 4th round pick but the Broncos took him with the pick just before them? So, then we took Cousins instead. I may have heard that wrong.

Slightly off topic but an interesting footnote, nonetheless.

As for Cousins, I was happy with the pick and I think the members of the media that are trying to create a controversy (watch how many ?s were about Cousins during that same interview) are complete boobs! (the interview is available on redskins.com)[/quote]

Like Matty said, that seemed to be what he was saying. But I don't know how true it is. Well, I should say I don't know how much that really applies to Kirk.

RGIII may have been referring to Phillip Blake who we were targeting and then went to Denver right beofre us in the 4th round so we traded down with Pittsburgh, or even Jarius Wright who we had also spent time with at the Senior Bowl but went right before us and we took Keenan Robinson

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

Do you take anything from the Coach KS and the movement of the eyes when he said his name.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;915345]I hope someone signs McNabb, I really don't want to see him on TV any more then I have to.[/quote]

I refuse to watch any program that he's a part of. Much like I won't watch anything with Bayless, I won't either with McNabb. Garbage TV is...Garbage.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=81forHOF;915610]Was it me or did Griffin, during his post rookie camp interview, allude to the fact that the Skins were planning on taking CB Omar Boldin with their 4th round pick but the Broncos took him with the pick just before them? So, then we took Cousins instead. I may have heard that wrong.

Slightly off topic but an interesting footnote, nonetheless.

As for Cousins, I was happy with the pick and I think the members of the media that are trying to create a controversy (watch how many ?s were about Cousins during that same interview) are complete boobs! (the interview is available on redskins.com)[/quote]

Yeah theres some truth to that probably. I know we worked Bolden out before. I didn't know that we wanted Blake that much according to SS. Jarius Wright I knew, but I don't like him that much, I liked Adams more.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18992581/finding-the-fits-selecting-cousins-a-savvy-move-by-redskins]Finding the Fits: Selecting Cousins a savvy move by Redskins - CBSSports[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

The thing I love about Cousins is he's a guy that's not going to rock the boat. He'll compete and work his tail off with the full understanding that this is RG3's show. He really is a perfect guy to bring in as a backup. And if his time comes, I think he'll prove that teams missed the boat on him.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SmootSmack;915988][URL="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18992581/finding-the-fits-selecting-cousins-a-savvy-move-by-redskins"]Finding the Fits: Selecting Cousins a savvy move by Redskins - CBSSports[/URL][/quote]

good article

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I have a feeling we will be seeing Cousins starting at some point this season. I just don't think a player like RG3 can stay healthy in the NFL... Good move in getting Cousins IMO.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SmootSmack;915988][url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18992581/finding-the-fits-selecting-cousins-a-savvy-move-by-redskins]Finding the Fits: Selecting Cousins a savvy move by Redskins - CBSSports[/url][/quote]
Interesting article SS, I wanted to ask College FB fans about one statement in it though:

[quote]But the fact that Kevin Kolb produced eerily similar numbers in his final season under head coach Art Briles at Houston (completed 67.6% of passes for 3,809 yards and 30 TDs/4 INTs) as Griffin did under Briles at Baylor (completed 72.4% of passes for 4,293 yards and 37 TDs/6 INTs) should serve as a warning that Griffin's ascent to NFL superstardom is not guaranteed[/quote]

Do those numbers really seem eerily similar? a 5% difference in completions, in a college season seems different, in fact each stat seems to be significantly better and in Griffins favor. But maybe the difference in opponents makes up for that? Just wanted to get some feel from the college afficianados on the Warpath.

edit: I was curious about rushing as well, which the author left off, in their senior years, Kolb had a 1.4 yd rushing avg, and Griffin had a 3.9yd rushing avg. if anyone else cared.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

Wouldn't Griffin opponents at a big 12 school be better than Houston's?

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;916064]Interesting article SS, I wanted to ask College FB fans about one statement in it though:



[B]Do those numbers really seem eerily similar? [/B] a 5% difference in completions, in a college season seems different, in fact each stat seems to be significantly better and in Griffins favor. But maybe the difference in opponents makes up for that? Just wanted to get some feel from the college afficianados on the Warpath.

edit: I was curious about rushing as well, which the author left off, in their senior years, Kolb had a 1.4 yd rushing avg, and Griffin had a 3.9yd rushing avg. if anyone else cared.[/quote]

IMO the reporter/writer was reaching numbers are not similar.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;916068]Wouldn't Griffin opponents at a big 12 school be better than Houston's?[/quote]

Good comment. Playing Marshall and Memphis is not the same as playing Oklahoma and Texas.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

5% completion difference is college is huge. it's hard to get above 70%

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;916147]IMO the reporter/writer was reaching numbers are not similar.[/quote]

Yeah not even close statistically and the comparison is not fair based on the different variables that each player faced. Basically this guy was really reaching. RG III is not even close to the same qb that Kolb is. He performed at a much higher level and brought multiple skills that Kolb doesnt posses to the table.

Weak very weak.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

The author is making the all to common fallacy of using statistics to measure talent.
By and large QBs are drafted for their [I]physical skillset[/I] not their stats.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;916064]Interesting article SS, I wanted to ask College FB fans about one statement in it though:



Do those numbers really seem eerily similar? a 5% difference in completions, in a college season seems different, in fact each stat seems to be significantly better and in Griffins favor. But maybe the difference in opponents makes up for that? Just wanted to get some feel from the college afficianados on the Warpath.

edit: I was curious about rushing as well, which the author left off, in their senior years, Kolb had a 1.4 yd rushing avg, and Griffin had a 3.9yd rushing avg. if anyone else cared.[/quote]
[FONT="Courier New"]
Statistical comparisons between two players are mostly worthless without some sort of baseline to determine which constitutes a meaningful discrepancy and what isn't.

But even if two players are the "same" statistically, that does not mean they are "the same". This is because the stats are [B]results[/B] affected by various factors. Different combination of contribution from factors can lead to the same result. It's a giant mess to pore through.

For example, passing yards can be treated as a function of QB physical ability, QB mental ability, WR quality, OL quality, etc.
Or in equation form:[/FONT]
[code]Passing yards = QB arm strength+ QB "intelligence"+ QB mobility + WR1 hands+WR1 speed+WR1 route running+WR1 intelligence +etc +error term[/code]