Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Mattyk;926865]such a moron, he's so out of touch with reality[/quote]

I honestly thought he was much smarter than Palin, now, i'm not so sure. Here is an interview with an [URL="http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5207"]Israeli paper[/URL],,,this answer is quite strange...I'm I missing something?

[quote]You say that Obama failed in many areas especially in foreign policy. How do you view the Arab Spring and the way in which the U.S. responded to the uprisings in those Arab states?

"Clearly we're disappointed in seeing Tunisia and Morocco elect Islamist governments. We're very concerned in seeing the new leader in Egypt as an Islamist leader. It is our hope to move these nations toward a more modern view of the world and to not present a threat to their neighbors and to the other nations of the world."

"The Arab Spring is not appropriately named. It has become a development of more concern and it occurred in part because of the reluctance on the part of various dictators to provide more freedom to their citizens. President [George W.] Bush urged [deposed Egyptian President] Hosni Mubarak to move toward a more democratic posture, but President Obama abandoned the freedom agenda and we are seeing today a whirlwind of tumult in the Middle East in part because these nations did not embrace the reforms that could have changed the course of their history, in a more peaceful manner."[/quote]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;926871][B]I honestly thought he was much smarter than Palin, now, i'm not so sure.[/B] Here is an interview with an [URL="http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5207"]Israeli paper[/URL],,,this answer is quite strange...I'm I missing something?[/quote]

They're both airheads in their own unique way

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Romney is getting pummeled in the British press. It's just amazing that he could be so stupid and careless with his comments with one of our strongest allies.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926883]Romney is getting pummeled in the British press. It's just amazing that he could be so stupid and careless with his comments with one of our strongest allies.[/quote]

Seriously?

Romney is stupid with Britain?

He didn't offend them by returning the Winston Churchhill bust or present the queen with an audio edition of his greatest speeches.

No comparison. Don't even try that argument. The grasping at straws by scared liberals everywhere is pathetic.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;926892]Seriously?

Romney is stupid with Britain?

He didn't offend them by returning the Winston Churchhill bust or present the queen with an audio edition of his greatest speeches.

No comparison. Don't even try that argument. The grasping at straws by scared liberals everywhere is pathetic.[/quote]Now, now. It's the only thing Obama supporters have.

Not that the Romney supporters have much either.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;926892]Seriously?

Romney is stupid with Britain?

He didn't offend them by returning the Winston Churchhill bust or present the queen with an audio edition of his greatest speeches.

No comparison. Don't even try that argument. The grasping at straws by scared liberals everywhere is pathetic.[/quote]

I'm not grasping at straws, just go on the internet and Google Romney in London. The headlines will speak for themselves. Try it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

The British PM and then the Mayor of London totally bitch smacked Romney in front of 60,000 screaming fans yesterday. But yeah, let's talk about Churchhill's bust. lol

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/27/mitt-romney-gaffe-strewn-london?newsfeed=true]Romney campaign tries to pick up the pieces from gaffe-strewn London visit | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://twitpic.com/ace29h]How Rupert Murdoch's Sun covered Romney's visit to ... on Twitpic[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926896]The British PM and then the Mayor of London totally bitch smacked Romney in front of 60,000 screaming fans yesterday. But yeah, let's talk about Churchhill's bust. lol[/quote]

You think if we extended the Churchill Bust loan and kept it we would be harboring the bust of an Hitler-centric anti-appeasement bandwagoner in the White House or would we be taking valuable bust space that could be filled by an American?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/79050.html]British press fillets Romney - Patrick Gavin - POLITICO.com[/url]

Im seriously not voting this year. "Mitt the Twit", what a complete embarressment...epic fail.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

MonkeyDad and HailGreen28,

Look, President Obama snuck the Churchill bust back in the White House. #stoplisteningtofoxnews

Shhh...

[url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill]Fact Check: The Bust of Winston Churchill | The White House[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926903]MonkeyDad and HailGreen28,

Look, President Obama snuck the Churchill bust back in the White House. #stoplisteningtofoxnews

Shhh...

[url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill]Fact Check: The Bust of Winston Churchill | The White House[/url][/quote]

Man, they even had me with the whole bust thing....You mean to tell me it was all a lie and the bust is still there? Team Romney has been negligent in fact checking their candidate's talking points?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

So awesome.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;926906]Man, they even had me with the whole bust thing....You mean to tell me it was all a lie and the bust is still there? Team Romney has been negligent in fact checking their candidate's talking points?[/quote]

What's utterly insane is they can see it right there in plain view, with the British PM, and still won't believe it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[IMG]http://tshirtgroove.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/tshirt-hell-vote-romney-2012-hes-white-t-shirt.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

I think well hear more about Churchill's bust pretty soon. But i think the issue is that it was removed from the Oval Office, not that it was sent back to GB. Back in 2009:

A British Embassy spokesman said: "The bust of Sir Winston Churchill by Sir Jacob Epstein was uniquely lent to a foreign head of state, President George W Bush, from the Government Art Collection in the wake of 9/11 as a signal of the strong transatlantic relationship.

"It was lent for the first term of office of President Bush. When the President was elected for his second and final term, the loan was extended until January 2009.

"The new President has decided not to continue this loan and the bust has now been returned. It is on display at the Ambassador's Residence."


[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html"]Barack Obama sends bust of Winston Churchill on its way back to Britain - Telegraph[/URL]

Romney's actual (meaning real) remarks:

"I'm looking forward to the bust of Winston Churchill being in the Oval Office again,"

[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57480974-503544/romney-promises-to-bring-churchill-bust-back-to-white-house/"]Romney promises to bring Churchill bust back to White House - Political Hotsheet - CBS News[/URL]

Maybe by placing it with the diplomat it becomes technically held by the foreign country the said diplomat represents?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

It's really not that serious to begin with, I only raised it because Monkeyday made hay about it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

My understanding is that the bust has not been returned or given back to the ambassador. It was simply relocated from the Oval Office to another location in the White House in favor of Abe's bust.

The whole story about it being returned or what have you originated from National Journal and it seems that the media neglected to fact check NJ's claims. Also, Romney could very well have been just saying that he would relocate Churchill's bust back to the Oval Office...hopefully not in favor of Abe's bust.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926924]It's really not that serious to begin with, I only raised it because Monkeyday made hay about it.[/quote]

It really isn't...Given that bust space is limited I do think that busts of great Americans belong in the Oval Office more so than that of any other foreign figures.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;926925]My understanding is that the bust has not been returned or given back to ambassador. It was simply relocated from the Oval Office to another location in the White House in favor of Abe's bust.

The whole story about it being returned or what have you originated from national Journal and it seems that the media neglected to fact check NJ's claims. Also, Romney could very well have been just saying that he would relocate Churchill's bust back to the Oval Office...hopefully not in favor of Abe's bust.[/quote]


You know im pretty interested in what the real story is now. I too was under the impression that the Bust left the White House.

Interestingly the WH Fact Check never makes any direct mention of the Bust leaving the White House, just that it is in the WH and has been since at least July 20th of 2010. But it does say Krauthammer is 100% lieing and Krauthammer implies it left the WH.

Also Krauthammer never says the Bust isnt currently in the WH, just that Obama removed the bust from the Oval Office and returned it to the British Embassy. Which is either partially or completely true.

Meanwhile the British Embassy spokesperson said in Feburary 2009 that the bust had indeed been returned to them and is "on display at Ambassador's Residence".

To me this sounds like because of all the heat the President took by returning the Bust he brought it back. And it appears he brought back quitely. Either way either The WH Fact Check or the British Embassy lied. However Krauthammer didnt, as he was either mistaken (like all of us) or right. And Romney, in what im thinking was in a completely acidental way, said nothing that could be viewed as incorrect by any means.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

You're missing the point.

The inference by Krauthammer and other right wing loons was that President Obama slighted the Brits by shipping the bust back to Britain. Whether it was moved 10 blocks up the street to the Embassy and later back to the White House is immaterial and entirely besides the point. It's in the White House and Obama rightly gave deference to Lincoln over Churchill

The narrative is what's important here; that Obama slighted the Brits, lacked judgement and diplomacy. That lie has been perpetuated for three years and now has been proven patently false. That's the point.

I'm done with this thread.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

I completely agree that Lincoln bust should be in the office over Churchill's. But youre completely mistaken if you think that if Obama gave the bust back to the Brits is somehow immaterial or besides the point. And how in any way has the narrative that Obama slighted the Brits been proven "patently false"? If Obama took the statue back because he realized he slighted the Brits it kind feel the "lie" isnt all that much of a lie.


I just find this whole thing curious because like everyone else i was under the impression that Obama slighted the Brits by giving the bust back. So did he? Did the bust leave the whitehouse? Why did it come back? Will Kelly go to the dance with Zack?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;926892]Seriously?

Romney is stupid with Britain?

He didn't offend them by returning the Winston Churchhill bust or present the queen with an audio edition of his greatest speeches.

No comparison. Don't even try that argument. The grasping at straws by scared liberals everywhere is pathetic.[/quote]

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-news-blog/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney-britain-gaffes]Oh, Mitt: those Romney gaffes in full | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127]BBC News - Boris Johnson chides Mitt Romney over London Olympics[/url]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19015278]BBC News - Will Mitt Romney's London woes hurt him at home?[/url]

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179582/Mitt-Romneys-Olympics-2012-gaffe-Devoid-charm-offensive-wazzock.html?ito=feeds-newsxml]Mitt Romney's Olympics 2012 gaffe: 'Devoid of charm, offensive and a wazzock' | Mail Online[/url]

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179604/2012-Olympics-Mitt-Romneys-Terrible-Horrible-No-Good-Very-Bad-Day-London.html?ito=feeds-newsxml]2012 Olympics: Mitt Romney's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day in London | Mail Online[/url]

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/jul/27/mitt-romney-uk-media-olympic]Mitt Romney gets cold reception from UK media after Olympic gaffe | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]





[IMG]http://endingfinancialinsanity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Head-in-sand.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

edit: Done with the topic:)

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;926937]I completely agree that Lincoln bust should be in the office over Churchill's. But youre completely mistaken if you think that if Obama gave the bust back to the Brits is somehow immaterial or besides the point. And how in any way has the narrative that Obama slighted the Brits been proven "patently false"? If Obama took the statue back because he realized he slighted the Brits it kind feel the "lie" isnt all that much of a lie.


I just find this whole thing curious because like everyone else i was under the impression that Obama slighted the Brits by giving the bust back. So did he? Did the bust leave the whitehouse? Why did it come back? Will Kelly go to the dance with Zack?[/quote]

Couldn't resist:)

The Brits love Obama. I hate to put it in those terms because he's a head of state not a celebrity, but it's true. I think that accurately captures the sentiment abroad towards the president. I have a few friends that live across the pond and they'd tell you themselves. David Cameron and Obama were at the NCAA tourney eating dogs and yucking it up. They appear to have a close relationship.

Here's a good article. "Cameron worships Obama"

[url]http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_david-cameron-worships-barack-obama-say-republicans_1719869http://[/url]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-camerons-special-relationship-with-president-obama/2012/03/14/gIQAj0DnCS_story.html]David Cameron’s special relationship with President Obama - The Washington Post[/url]






So if there's anyone who's offended or feels slighted, I can assure you it's Obama's opponents in Congress.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926903]MonkeyDad and HailGreen28,

Look, President Obama snuck the Churchill bust back in the White House. #stoplisteningtofoxnews

Shhh...

[url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill]Fact Check: The Bust of Winston Churchill | The White House[/url][/quote] yeah that totally trumps not running a campaign on any issue or plan or principle. Just go totally negative and run on some discredited newspaper articles and bad singing by your opponent. What an inspiring president. Drag the campaign down to mudslinging on any stupid pr point you can. :doh

Regardless of which idiot wins this time around, "did you support obama?" ought to be an effective rebuttal to any democrat who wants to complain about negative campaigning the next 50 years.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

HG28, you're confusing us debating about a stupid bust with what Obama's talking about on the campaign trail? 'Cause he's talking about plenty issues.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926948]HG28, you're confusing us debating about a stupid bust with what Obama's talking about on the campaign trail? 'Cause he's talking about plenty issues.[/quote]Like what?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Aiight, so here's the skinny. Seriously.

Turns out there are two Churchill busts. Yep. One was a gift during the Nixon administration and has remained a part of the White House's official art collection since. It's the one in the White House photo with Obama and Cameron.

The other, which was loaned to George Bush after 9/11, was already scheduled to go back before Obama arrived and is at the British Embassy.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926951]Aiight, so here's the skinny. Seriously.

Turns out there are two Churchill busts. Yep. One was a gift during the Nixon administration and has remained a part of the White House's official are collection since. It's the one in the White House photo with Obama and Cameron.

The other, which was loaned to George Bush after 9/11, was already scheduled to go back before Obama arrived and is at the British Embassy.[/quote]

LOL....so for almost 10 years there were two busts of Churchill in the White House?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;926949]Like what?[/quote]

You want me to provide you with 7 months of video footage of the president discussing the issues?

He's been in OH, FL, VA, IA, CA, LA, TX several times in the past few months...weeks. Where've you been?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;926953]LOL....so for almost 10 years there were two busts of Churchill in the White House?[/quote]

Yep, by the same artist. Sir Jacob Epstein. Crazy shit.

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/is-the-churchill-bust-controversy-a-total-bust/]Is the Churchill Bust Controversy A Total Bust? - ABC News[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;926939][url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-news-blog/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney-britain-gaffes]Oh, Mitt: those Romney gaffes in full | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127]BBC News - Boris Johnson chides Mitt Romney over London Olympics[/url]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19015278]BBC News - Will Mitt Romney's London woes hurt him at home?[/url]

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179582/Mitt-Romneys-Olympics-2012-gaffe-Devoid-charm-offensive-wazzock.html?ito=feeds-newsxml]Mitt Romney's Olympics 2012 gaffe: 'Devoid of charm, offensive and a wazzock' | Mail Online[/url]

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179604/2012-Olympics-Mitt-Romneys-Terrible-Horrible-No-Good-Very-Bad-Day-London.html?ito=feeds-newsxml]2012 Olympics: Mitt Romney's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day in London | Mail Online[/url]

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/jul/27/mitt-romney-uk-media-olympic]Mitt Romney gets cold reception from UK media after Olympic gaffe | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]





[IMG]http://endingfinancialinsanity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Head-in-sand.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Denial is a helluva drug

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Well im as surprised as everyone else. Im glad theres an end to this story finally. But to be nitpicky:

[quote]
‘The bust of Sir Winston Churchill by Sir Jacob Epstein was uniquely lent to a foreign head of state, President George W Bush, from the Government Art Collection in the wake of 9/11 as a signal of the strong transatlantic relationship. It was lent for the first term of office of President Bush. When the President was elected for his second and final term, the loan was extended until January 2009.

[B]The new President has decided not to continue this loan and the bust has now been returned. It is on display at the Ambassador’s Residence.”[/B]
[/quote]

1) Maybe a language barrier of sorts? The whole bust thing was a resonable sized story/lure in America AND in Brittin for several years. Rightfully so or not, doesnt really matter. Why the hell did the Embassy never clairify their remarks?

2) So The White House blog and "fact" checker is just some kid with the internet? WTF, youd think he would have some kind of inside information and be posting real stuff. This fact checking kid is spreading more mis-information than anyone else. He's striaght up wrong on many things. His update doesnt even acknowlege that hes wrong, it just states info that he could have got from perusing the Debating With the Enemy section of his faviort Redskins forum. Jesus.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;926973]Well im as surprised as everyone else. Im glad theres an end to this story finally. But to be nitpicky:



1) Maybe a language barrier of sorts? The whole bust thing was a resonable sized story/lure in America AND in Brittin for several years. Rightfully so or not, doesnt really matter. Why the hell did the Embassy never clairify their remarks?

2) So The White House blog and "fact" checker is just some kid with the internet? WTF, youd think he would have some kind of inside information and be posting real stuff. This fact checking kid is spreading more mis-information than anyone else. He's striaght up wrong on many things. His update doesnt even acknowlege that hes wrong, it just states info that he could have got from perusing the Debating With the Enemy section of his faviort Redskins forum. Jesus.[/quote]

No, Dan Pffeifer is the White House Communications Director. He posts blogs at the White House on site occasionally. Been around for years.

The original bust on loan from Nixon was being worked on for a while and the Brits decided to "loan" the match to Bush until the end of his term. It's custom to return all art and such at the end of each of administration. What's being missed in all of this, at some point the original bust was returned to the "residence" and there were two. When O took office they sent the other one down the street.

The end.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;926973]Well im as surprised as everyone else.[U] Im glad theres an end to this story finally.[/U] [/quote]


Yeah...like the birth certificate story.




No wait...

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926978]No, Dan Pffeifer is the White House Communications Director. He posts blogs at the White House on site occasionally. Been around for years.

The original bust on loan from Nixon was being worked on for a while and the Brits decided to "loan" the match to Bush until the end of his term. It's custom to return all art and such at the end of each of administration. What's being missed in all of this, at some point the original bust was returned to the "residence" and there were two. When O took office they sent the other one down the street.

The end.[/quote]

You know at first i was going to call Dan Pffeifer a complete idiot but im thinking its not really his fault. No one knows whats going on in this administration. Its got to be painful working working there, regardless of how strongly you feel about Admin's ideology. For God's sake the second cabinet meeting of the year was just held. Wtf does Obama do all day?

[url=http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-holds-first-cabinet-meeting-january_648993.html]Obama Holds First Cabinet Meeting Since January | The Weekly Standard[/url]

And come on 12th. I appreciate your summary of what happened but thats not at all what im saying. Do you not find it odd at all the way the the British Embassy phrased the return of the statue? I mean this is such a non-issue in retrospect. So why did the Obama admin or the Brits never clarify. I mean regardless if you think it was an issue or not we all thought it happened. Even Pffeifer, bless his sole, had no idea what was going on.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Mattyk;926964]Denial is a helluva drug[/quote]


LOL...yup, just not a river in Eygpt.:)

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;926954]You want me to provide you with 7 months of video footage of the president discussing the issues?

He's been in OH, FL, VA, IA, CA, LA, TX several times in the past few months...weeks. Where've you been?[/quote]You said he's been talking about plenty of issues. I asked "Like what?".

Claiming to have to dig through campaign footage to find Obama actually talking about issues, and seeing how Obama's going almost totally negative campaigning on TV ads, speaks for itself. Doesn't it?