Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=The Goat;932509]We're still nerds talking about football ;)

I just can't stand it when something is obvious, black and whit[B]e[/B], and available from myriad sources to verify no less, but you want to agree to disagree lol. Davis was open from the snap.

But whoever said the play may have been designed to hit Moss using Davis as a decoy is probably right. I just meant that come regular season you want to see your QB adjust during the play and hit the open receiver for the 1st down...and I think RGIII will. That was my whole friggin point from the beginning.[/quote]

Edit it

[QUOTE=firstdown;932574]So here we go again its now a black and white issue. RG III threw the ball to Moss because he is also black and black QB's look for their black WR's first.[/QUOTE]

Just putting this out there, this is a pretty weak joke FD.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=mooby;932575]Just putting this out there, this is a pretty weak joke FD.[/quote]

Actually I thought it was funny but I came back in to delete because I worried some might not no I was joking.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

It was looking dismal for a while, but they picked it up. Super glad it wasn't a blow out!

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=mooby;932575]Just putting this out there, this is a pretty weak joke FD.[/quote]

Originally Posted by firstdown
So here we go again its now a black and white issue. RG III threw the ball to Moss because he is also black and black QB's look for their black WR's first.



Was this not in the spirit of one Skip Bayless' recent comments??? Because than its funny.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

Notice how the LBs have full view of both Davis and Griffin?
At this exact moment in time Davis is not 'wide open' because there are 2 defenders looking at Davis and Griffin:

[IMG]http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/143/e23a388e13a4490d8f03d8021d3c02bd/l.jpg[/IMG]

Notice that Griffin is already set to throw/already begun his throwing motion with the ball cocked back its only then that the LBs begin slough off Davis and react to the ball in flight:
[IMG]http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/144/38a2341bde4b4d5ea91643580b7899f1/l.jpg[/IMG]

By the time the ball is in the air the linebackers have already negun to slough off.
By the time the ball reaches Moss, of course Davis [I][B]appears [/B][/I]wide open.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

it appears as though he could have hit Davis for the first down, instead he went deep to Moss - but honestly - who really cares it is preseason and he is learning - I threw up in my mouth alittle about the insignificance of it all - lol

We dont know what the playcall was, or what is going through these guys heads in a preseason game. Something tells me that if this was a regular season game and we needed that first down badly, that he would have slinged it to Davis and done the smart thing.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=punch it in;932610]it appears as though he could have hit Davis for the first down, instead he went deep to Moss - but honestly - who really cares it is preseason and he is learning - I threw up in my mouth alittle about the insignificance of it all - lol

We dont know what the playcall was, or what is going through these guys heads in a preseason game. [B]Something tells me that if this was a regular season game and we needed that first down badly, that he would have slinged it to Davis and done the smart thing.[/B][/quote]

Word to this. Or RGIII may have not seen Davis altogether and scampered for the 1st down himself. Definitely hope he minimizes contact but I think we have to accept RGIII will use his legs to escape the pressure and possibly miss the open receiver from time to time. I hope his teammates are patient through the process of him adjusting to pro football.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

To me Royster out of the backfield was a better option than Davis (if Davis can put a hat on the LB in front of him) [I]BUT[/I] there was a window to complete the deeper route to Moss (higher progression than both) if the ball was thrown correctly. The bottom line is that RG3 thought he could fit the ball into Moss. If the coverage was tighter then he would have believed that it was too risky to complete it and checked down to Davis or Royster. I trust what he saw there.

If you believe option #1 (Moss) is open then you don't say "let me see if option 2 (Davis) or #3 (Royster) is MORE open." You throw it to option #1. He believed he could complete it. I also believe it was a pass that he could have completed - it was just a bad throw. In fact I think he did complete one to Moss in that area (I don't think Moss liked it very much because he was slow to get up lol).

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=punch it in;932610]it appears as though he could have hit Davis for the first down, instead he went deep to Moss[/quote]I have a couple of questions:

I'm just curious if you see the LBs in the first screen cap?

If you do see the LBs in the first screen cap can you see that the linebackers have a clear view of [I][B]both[/B][/I] Davis and Griffin?

Do you also see that Davis is running about 1-1.5 short and parrallel to the 1st down line?

Since the LBs can clearly see Davis/Griffin don't you think they will react to the ball as Griffin starts to throw it to Davis?

[quote] - but honestly - who really cares it is preseason and he is learning - I threw up in my mouth alittle about the insignificance of it all - lol[/quote]I don't get it.
If its so gross to you to have this football discussion don't join.
I mean, its kinda hypocritical to join in the discussion [I]then[/I] belly ache about it.
And its not insignificant to discuss football and share view points and try to reach a more true/accurate understanding of what we see.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=imaskin4life;932634]...I trust what he saw there.[/quote]+1

[quote]If you believe option #1 (Moss) is open then you don't say "let me see if option 2 (Davis) or #3 (Royster) is MORE open." You throw it to option #1. He believed he could complete it. I also believe it was a pass that he could have completed - it was just a bad throw. In fact I think he did complete one to Moss in that area (I don't think Moss liked it very much because he was slow to get up lol).[/quote]Earlier in the game in a similar route combo, he [I]does[/I] fit a tight ball to Moss on that post route.

I believe that Davis could have been part of the early progression, but at the top of his drop Davis has not completely crossed the face/cleared the LBs yet.
So Griffin comes off that read and moves on to Moss.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2012/aug/22/cooley-misread-defense-sackfumble-vs-bears/]Cooley misread the defense on sack/fumble vs. Bears - Washington Times[/url]

[QUOTE=IrMitchell;932501]Taken out of context.

But whatever, let's just agree that Skip is irrelevant and essentially an ESPN troll.[/QUOTE]

Deal.

[QUOTE=The Goat;932628]Word to this. Or RGIII may have not seen Davis altogether and scampered for the 1st down himself. Definitely hope he minimizes contact but I think we have to accept RGIII will use his legs to escape the pressure and possibly miss the open receiver from time to time. I hope his teammates are patient through the process of him adjusting to pro football.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I was thinking scramble also. That would be a real speed test. Those lb's look like they were thinking the same thing. Thats a great thing about rg3. Lb's will alwAys be wondering if he is going to take off. God - have we ever had a qb that is going to make defenses so strung out??? Is he going to run or is he going to throw and if he throws is it going to be deep? He does it all well and all three decisions have to be respected!!!!

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

I finally got to catch the game last night and it wasn't nearly the disaster that the media made it out to be as far as RG3's play. He was under some pressure but I thought he also made some nice plays too. The connection to Moss was really nice. I think Paul should have had that one drop where RG3 rolled out and the throw was a little behind him. It was still a catchable ball. Paul always seems a little stiff when it comes to his hands.

That's what I hate about these preseason games. It's such a limited look, and people tend to blow it up into something it's not.

Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now. Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.

[QUOTE=30gut;932653]I have a couple of questions:

I'm just curious if you see the LBs in the first screen cap?

If you do see the LBs in the first screen cap can you see that the linebackers have a clear view of [I][B]both[/B][/I] Davis and Griffin?

Do you also see that Davis is running about 1-1.5 short and parrallel to the 1st down line?

Since the LBs can clearly see Davis/Griffin don't you think they will react to the ball as Griffin starts to throw it to Davis?

I don't get it.
If its so gross to you to have this football discussion don't join.
I mean, its kinda hypocritical to join in the discussion [I]then[/I] belly ache about it.
And its not insignificant to discuss football and share view points and try to reach a more true/accurate understanding of what we see.[/QUOTE]

My comments were directed at the play in question - not your discussing it. Its one play which meant nothing in a game that means nothing. I dont believe that Rg3 is in the same mindset he will be in when the games count. I was reading your and goats posts back and forth and trying to decide who was rite. It than dawned on me that due to the circumstances of the play that even rg3 himself was probably going deep just to go deep. If you read my post again i point that out. If it was reg season and we needed a first down he would probably scramble or sling it to davis. I left ES because people would attack you for your thoughts so trust me that was not my intention. I think its a great play to wonder and chat about but when i really thought about it there was no good answer because i dont think your seeing the same rg3 you would see in a real game. Hence my comment who cares - its insugnificant - again the play not the discussion of the play.

As per the question of him slinging it to davis. I believe that if davis doesnt break stride and rg3 puts zip on that ball that he can catch it and fall forward for the first.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Mattyk;932791]
Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, [B]I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now.[/B] Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.[/quote]

I think so. Shanny is testing the right side of he line in particular when it comes to run blocking. First play of the game we ran left and Morris piled up early yards with good blocking. The right side struggled though and Shanny went there again and again to get those guys reps. Smart coaching.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932698][url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2012/aug/22/cooley-misread-defense-sackfumble-vs-bears/]Cooley misread the defense on sack/fumble vs. Bears - Washington Times[/url][/quote]

You mean it wasn't our awful, worst of all time Offensive Line? Whew, that's a relief. Maybe they can block after all.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=punch it in;932793]As per the question of him slinging it to davis. I believe that if davis doesnt break stride and rg3 puts zip on that ball that he can catch it and fall forward for the first.[/quote]To me its important to understand what we're looking at when we have discussion of film/tape.

In the instant of the 1st screen cap Griff is read to throw, he's reached the top of his drop, but he can't throw it to Davis at that time because Davis has yet to cross the face of the LB and therefore Davis at that exact moment is not open.

In order to throw to Moss, Griff has to come off water previous read he was on then moves on to Tana.
At this point the LBs that were previously reading/keying on Davis and Griffin are now reacting to Griffin's arm as he prepares to release of the ball.

Its at this point that the LBs drop off their coverage from Davis and get ready to follow the ball.
That is what makes Davis look wide open while the ball is in air on the way towards Moss.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Mattyk;932791]I finally got to catch the game last night and it wasn't nearly the disaster that the media made it out to be as far as RG3's play. He was under some pressure but I thought he also made some nice plays too. The connection to Moss was really nice. I think Paul should have had that one drop where RG3 rolled out and the throw was a little behind him. It was still a catchable ball. Paul always seems a little stiff when it comes to his hands.

That's what I hate about these preseason games. It's such a limited look, and people tend to blow it up into something it's not.

Back on why RG3's attempts have been so low, I found myself wondering last night if perhaps Shanahan is more concerned with evaluating the running game right now. Couple that with probably not wanting to expose Griffin too much behind a patchwork line. Just a thought.[/quote]

I watched the game on Sunday night for the first time after reading all the articles and a few posts here, and that is exactly how I felt about the game.

When u have a top ten LT the oline can't be that horrendous can it?

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

I think when the games start meaning something we will see better results. We have no idea what the game plans are or if there are some things we can do with game planning and qb play to hind some of the flaws on our oline.

[QUOTE=30gut;932833]To me its important to understand what we're looking at when we have discussion of film/tape.

In the instant of the 1st screen cap Griff is read to throw, he's reached the top of his drop, but he can't throw it to Davis at that time because Davis has yet to cross the face of the LB and therefore Davis at that exact moment is not open.

In order to throw to Moss, Griff has to come off water previous read he was on then moves on to Tana.
At this point the LBs that were previously reading/keying on Davis and Griffin are now reacting to Griffin's arm as he prepares to release of the ball.

Its at this point that the LBs drop off their coverage from Davis and get ready to follow the ball.
That is what makes Davis look wide open while the ball is in air on the way towards Moss.[/QUOTE]

Im not saying davis was wide open. I am saying that because this is a preseason game that means nothing RG3 was going to air it out the entire time. Im not debating your take on the linebackers. If this were a meaningful game and we needed the first down Griffin could have and hopefully would have fit that ball in there to Davis. Fit it in - i said this before- i am agreeing with you that DAVIS WAS NOt WIDE OPEN. Again because this is preseason and the game means nothing it is hard to break down plays. Why? Because as others have stated shanny and the staff might be keying on a completely different aspect of our offense. If this were a real game we could be sure that RG 3 and the staff would have had one thing on their mind during said play - moving the chains. In this case however i really feel that rg3 was just airing it out from the minute he snapped the ball.
So maybe to make you understand my point i will pose you this question. What if this were a regular season game and we were in dire need of a first down on this play - does rg-3 wait for davis to take a couple steps and squeeze the ball in tight coverage giving davis s chance to lunge for the first? Does he try and run for the first? Or does he air it out into double coverage?

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;932838]I think when the games start meaning something we will see better results. We have no idea what the game plans are or if there are some things we can do with game planning and qb play to hind some of the flaws on our oline.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Its amazing how for years we know and see that the only thing for sure about a preseason game is that the final score is meaningless. Pre season records and regular season records never match up, yet people want to take such stock in the play. All they are is glorified scrimmages where coaches and players get to try things at game speed. I take zero stock in it. I want them to stay healthy and build confidence. I think you are absolutely rite. Wait until they mean something than well see what we got with rg3 and this team.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=punch it in;932853]In this case however i really feel that rg3 was just airing it out from the minute he snapped the ball.
So maybe to make you understand my point i will pose you this question. What if this were a regular season game and we were in dire need of a first down on this play - does rg-3 wait for davis to take a couple steps and squeeze the ball in tight coverage giving davis s chance to lunge for the first? Does he try and run for the first? Or does he air it out into double coverage?[/quote]I get what you are saying about Griff just wanting to air it out, I just don't agree *shrugs*.
Its okay that we have different takes on that play, its all healthy discussion.

In a real game? Imo I don't think he throws it Davis because the LBs are looking right at Griff and Davis. So if Griff continues to look and wait while for Davis to cross the face of the MLB the MLB is going to run with Davis and make sure Davis does not get across his face and the other LB is probably gonna beat feet and try to close the distance in a trail position. Zones defenders are often taught to spot drop to depth (often they drop back the same number of steps as the QB) then pattern read and let the QBs eyes take them to the play.
That's why zone works well against rookie QBs because they tend to eye ball their first read.

Like the other poster said I trust what Griff saw on that play.


To answers the rest of your question under ideal circumstances Griffin (a) makes a better throw to Moss (b) scrambles for the 1st or scrambles to make a play (c) pulls a savvy vet move and pump fakes to Moss thus freezing or wrong footing the LBs [I]then[/I] throws it to a Davis who is now actually wide open

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;932836]When u have a top ten LT the oline can't be that horrendous can it?[/quote]

20% of the O-Line is in the top 10. The other 80% would struggle to start on other teams.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

Didn't want to start a new thread for this question.... Has anyone heard if they are going to move Crawford up and let him play against the first team? Might be a question for SS or Matty??

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Jayroc24;932863]Didn't want to start a new thread for this question.... Has anyone heard if they are going to move Crawford up and let him play against the first team? Might be a question for SS or Matty??[/quote]

No plans at the moment that I know of

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Jayroc24;932863]Didn't want to start a new thread for this question.... Has anyone heard if they are going to move Crawford up and let him play against the first team? Might be a question for SS or Matty??[/quote]

I would love to see what he could do against first teamers! He's played very well during the preseason!

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932865].........[/quote]
Any word on the starting OL?
Is Chester set to play/start?
Is Polumbus still pencilled in at RT?

Is Royster gonna start and play starter minutes or is he gonna rotate with Morris?

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=30gut;932935]Any word on the starting OL?
Is Chester set to play/start?
Is Polumbus still pencilled in at RT?

Is Royster gonna start and play starter minutes or is he gonna rotate with Morris?[/quote]

You mean this weekend I assume.

Yes on Chester
Think so on Polumbus, though not sure
No decision yet on Morris/Royster, but ER probably starts Saturday since he's likely the starter on opening day

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932938]You mean this weekend I assume.

Yes on Chester
Think so on Polumbus, though not sure
No decision yet on Morris/Royster, but ER probably starts Saturday since he's likely the starter on opening day[/quote]

Royster by default IMO.

[QUOTE=30gut;932861]I get what you are saying about Griff just wanting to air it out, I just don't agree *shrugs*.
Its okay that we have different takes on that play, its all healthy discussion.

In a real game? Imo I don't think he throws it Davis because the LBs are looking right at Griff and Davis. So if Griff continues to look and wait while for Davis to cross the face of the MLB the MLB is going to run with Davis and make sure Davis does not get across his face and the other LB is probably gonna beat feet and try to close the distance in a trail position. Zones defenders are often taught to spot drop to depth (often they drop back the same number of steps as the QB) then pattern read and let the QBs eyes take them to the play.
That's why zone works well against rookie QBs because they tend to eye ball their first read.

Like the other poster said I trust what Griff saw on that play.


To answers the rest of your question under ideal circumstances Griffin (a) makes a better throw to Moss (b) scrambles for the 1st or scrambles to make a play (c) pulls a savvy vet move and pump fakes to Moss thus freezing or wrong footing the LBs [I]then[/I] throws it to a Davis who is now actually wide open[/QUOTE]

I hear that. We can agree he has to make a better throw to Moss no matter what his intentions were. One thing i will say is i dont think Griffin is your typical rookie qb. Hell campbell used to stare his receiver down well past his rookie year. Lol.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=RGIII;932941]Royster by default IMO.[/quote]

Not really, Shanny really likes him.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

Shanny now says Royster out Saturday (tweaked his knee), Hightower will play some. Helu is still out

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932989]Shanny now says Royster out Saturday (tweaked his knee), Hightower will play some. Helu is still out[/quote]

Man, what is up with our RBs?!

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Ruhskins;932993]Man, what is up with our RBs?![/quote]

Their overall draft position in fantasy is 'up'.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=Ruhskins;932993]Man, what is up with our RBs?![/quote]

So it is just shaping up for Alfred Morris to swoop in and rush for 1,500 yards this season.

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932989]Shanny now says Royster out Saturday (tweaked his knee), Hightower will play some. Helu is still out[/quote]

Should be a heavy night for Morris

Re: Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts
 

Trista(e/i)n later in the 2nd half?