Luck is having the same issues griffin is , not a lot around him. Only difference is luck has a d, Wilson is the better right now but let's wait and see 5 yrs from now .

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=donofriose;1045605]Right now foles is playing better than luck. He has more touchdown passes and less interceptions.

Luck has been pretty bad the past couple of games and the colts have been getting blown out besides yesterday's game against the titans in which luck looked like an average QB, which is better than what he looked like previously. Right now foles is playing at a higher level than luck.[/quote]

All I am saying is that last year a lot of people would have said that about RG3 over Luck. Foles plays in a gimmick offense that defenses aren't used to yet just like ours last year. Luck has garbage ass weapons around him compared to Foles who has McCoy and Jackson. I would take Luck over Foles no matter what.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=redskins5044;1045609]All I am saying is that last year a lot of people would have said that about RG3 over Luck. Foles plays in a gimmick offense that defenses aren't used to yet just like ours last year. Luck has garbage ass weapons around him compared to Foles who has McCoy and Jackson. I would take Luck over Foles no matter what.[/quote]

Yea when they lost Wayne luck has looked completely different. Once he went he has basically looked like RG3.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

I just hope RG3 listens to all the experts talk about Wilson after this game. They all took Jabs at him RG3, in his defense he couldn't do all the things to become a more complete QB this offseason due to rehab. I know he has the work ethic and drive to become better, just needs to make it through the season without injury.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

That performance by Wilson was nuts. I figured he might be good when he won that job. I never thought he'd be this good. I mean ever, not just this soon. He's a legitimate MVP candidate pending the rest of the season.

Foles is playing a very different game than all the other young QBs. What he's doing for Philly is pretty f-ing impressive. But it makes comparisons to other QBs difficult at best because he's not doing what everyone else is. Most impressive thing Foles has done is completely changed Chip Kelly's opinion of him. I know a lot of football coaches, and that's basically impossible once someone has an evaluation of you.

Griffin is younger than everyone we're talking about, and he's further along than he's getting credit for in the media right now. He's not as far along as I had hoped or thought he would be, but the offense has been a limiting factor on his development. He's lacking some basic nuance that isn't difficult to master in terms of timing and pocket movement. A good QB coach could get that fixed in a couple of weeks. Given that he's a full year or two younger than all the other great "young" quarterbacks, his upside is still the one you should bet on. He's just behind Wilson and Foles.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

Luck's numbers are starting to suffer a bit from lack of confidence in his teammates, which as many others have mentioned in this thread, is something Griffin has been dealing with right from the very first play of the season.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=redskins5044;1045619]I just hope RG3 listens to all the experts talk about Wilson after this game. They all took Jabs at him RG3, in his defense he couldn't do all the things to become a more complete QB this offseason due to rehab. I know he has the work ethic and drive to become better, just needs to make it through the season without injury.[/quote]

I hope so too. I still think he has the most talent out of any of the young QBs. It is just a matter of putting it all together.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045622]That performance by Wilson was nuts. I figured he might be good when he won that job. I never thought he'd be this good. I mean ever, not just this soon. He's a legitimate MVP candidate pending the rest of the season.

Foles is playing a very different game than all the other young QBs. What he's doing for Philly is pretty f-ing impressive. But it makes comparisons to other QBs difficult at best because he's not doing what everyone else is. Most impressive thing Foles has done is completely changed Chip Kelly's opinion of him. I know a lot of football coaches, and that's basically impossible once someone has an evaluation of you.

[B]Griffin is younger than everyone we're talking about, and he's further along than he's getting credit for in the media right now. He's not as far along as I had hoped or thought he would be, but the offense has been a limiting factor on his development. He's lacking some basic nuance that isn't difficult to master in terms of timing and pocket movement. A good QB coach could get that fixed in a couple of weeks. Given that he's a full year or two younger than all the other great "young" quarterbacks, his upside is still the one you should bet on. He's just behind Wilson and Foles.[/B][/quote]
This is why it's so mind blowing that so many are ready to write off Griffin as a potential bust or ready to make a change/want a "true QB competition". Not only is the younger but he also has the least experience playing the position in the traditional way and the least time for development due to his injury. I think he's going to take all of this as ammo into next offseason. There's no question inside the building about his dedication, intelligence, acumen and work ethic so given the time and reps, he's poised for a quantum leap next season with proper coaching.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Paintrain;1045645]This is why it's so mind blowing that so many are ready to write off Griffin as a potential bust or ready to make a change/want a "true QB competition". Not only is the younger but he also has the least experience playing the position in the traditional way and the least time for development due to his injury. I think he's going to take all of this as ammo into next offseason. There's no question inside the building about his dedication, intelligence, acumen and work ethic so given the time and reps, he's poised for a quantum leap next season with proper coaching.[/quote]

Agreed! I'd say it's better to judge Griffin after he has had a full off season to work on his craft.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1045710]Agreed! I'd say it's better to judge Griffin after he has had a full off season to work on his craft.[/quote]

And he has a decent team around him.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1045726]And he has a decent team around him.[/quote]

Agreed. Luck loses his #1 WR and now look at him? 58% completion rating, 15 TD's, lower QB rating than RG3

Also, let's be glad we didn't pay someone so much money that we lost half the team and he's performing like Flacco right now.

RG3 will be fine. He was checking down last night, and looking off the safety. Something he hasn't done well in the past. He'll learn fast, and people will be surprised when the knee brace comes off.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Paintrain;1045645]This is why it's so mind blowing that so many are ready to write off Griffin as a potential bust or ready to make a change/want a "true QB competition". Not only is the younger but he also has the least experience playing the position in the traditional way and the least time for development due to his injury. [B]I think he's going to take all of this as ammo into next offseason. [/B] There's no question inside the building about his dedication, intelligence, acumen and work ethic so given the time and reps, he's poised for a quantum leap next season with proper coaching.[/quote]I believe that the way the media piled on Griffin will have the fire in his belly burning so hot that he will be on a mission to prove the critics wrong. If good personnel decisions are made to bolster the OL and the WR corps, I look for Griffin to make a leap similar to what Cam Newton has done this season.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1045758][B]I believe that the way the media piled on Griffin [/B]will have the fire in his belly burning so hot that he will be on a mission to prove the critics wrong. If good personnel decisions are made to bolster the OL and the WR corps, I look for Griffin to make a leap similar to what Cam Newton has done this season.[/quote]

RG3 brings a lot of it on himself with his massive PR machine. No need to be the constant center of attention on every single thing. Then some of the comments in the pressers don't help either. He's a very intelligent young man. I think he'll tone it down some and learn from this nightmare of a season.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1045726]And he has a decent team around him.[/quote]

At least some better pass protection.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

I feel like a broken record, but it needs to be made plain once a day lol...

Give RG a decent pass-blocking line, another downfield target or two, and I have no doubt he's a top QB next season.

The only reason to be concerned about RG is injury. He's had too many already, and any half-wit can recognize this crap offensive scheme (RO, small olinemen getting trucked, piss-poor playcalling that lets the defense get a jump on the ball) puts RG at more risk than he should be. If there's ANY valid argument for sitting RG, it's on the GM to "save" him from the shit show we see on gameday. Tough call to make though, glad it's not on me lol.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1045768]RG3 brings a lot of it on himself with his massive PR machine. No need to be the constant center of attention on every single thing. Then some of the comments in the pressers don't help either. He's a very intelligent young man. I think he'll tone it down some and learn from this nightmare of a season.[/quote]What PR machine? He's a franchise QB, of course he's going to be a constant center of attention no matter what he does.

Did he fly off to Cancun or something with his wife when he should have been preparing for a game or something? Should he turn down offseason work on endorsements? Did he sit on the sidelines pouting with a towel wrapped around his head, instead of being a leader?

I'm not saying RG3 is perfect. I haven't liked everything he said: like nobody would teach him how to play different, and running QBs are losers, the whole "operation patience" thing. I think he should have sat a couple maybe few games at the start of this season. (Not everybody heals the same, and except for Adrian Peterson nobody recovered quicker than RG3 has from that bad an injury.) But for crying out loud, he's been a good QB this season, a great one last season, and he's kept his nose clean and been a credit to the club on and off the field so far. For as bad as he looks compared to last season, as bad as the team is doing, many other posters point out his numbers still compare favorably to lots of starters that aren't getting flak about their play. What more do you guys want from him?

Seriously, I guess we're all ******* in Redskin Nation. Look at the heat Romo gets for devastating INTs, the hate of Brady "douche" and Peyton "dink and dunk" just because they're so good. Those teams and their fans can take the scrutiny. Yet RG3 has a so-so season, and our team and fans just can't seem to handle the heat.

How about a little perspective before we go back to running around in circles with the rest of the Chicken Littles in the media? "The sky is falling! Our team is doomed!"

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Bucket;1045730]Agreed. Luck loses his #1 WR and now look at him? 58% completion rating, 15 TD's, lower QB rating than RG3

Also, let's be glad we didn't pay someone so much money that we lost half the team and he's performing like Flacco right now.

RG3 will be fine. He was checking down last night, and looking off the safety. Something he hasn't done well in the past. He'll learn fast, and people will be surprised when the knee brace comes off.[/quote]

TY Hilton is talented. I'd blame the addition of Trent Richardson more for the Colts' demise.

Cleveland has come out of this looking like geniuses somehow.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

We have discussed, debated, and argued over Dobert this year.
With all the perspectives involved, what is really the best for the team, fans, and future?
To me, it's embracing the nfl. Either accept it for what it is, or suffer and be left out 4 weeks into and 4 weeks before the regular season ends.

The way the conversation has continued, it seems many of you have accepted read option and want to see more of that. The endless problems I see with the read option begin with mind numbing blatant issues. Alfred is the RB and a very capable one at that. Historically what team has get won a Super Bowl with what Kyle is trying to establish? Often times Robert or WR's are getting carries- this is risk outweighing reward. We don't have 4 Roberts on the bench in case one breaks and opposing defenses are celebrating when we eat clock up, expose our QB to hits every play and take little nibbles of yardage. The real teams that are able to succeed have a passing attack. Ours is predicated on play action. It's predictable. We've seen 90% of passes be play action, not including when it is 2mins left in 4thqtr and trailing by 18, which seems to be the only times when no play action is used.
The rules of the game are geared to protect the QB. We have chosen to forfeit that proceed w/o caution. WR's have nearly all advantage against defenses and get flags in their favor now more than ever. We don't take any advantage of that and chose to keep them running short routes or lining up in the backfield.

Look at how horribly the team has become on offense. Sure they have their moments- we have potential. Kyle's approach and philosophy is....too many words to convey.

Supporters of Read Option...will say, yeah in 2012 we won the division. But opposition will say, yeah and the teams mgt helped get him hurt and have been blinded by read option so much and gotten away from real football, that w/o Robert at full health, they have no clue how to win a game.

What are we building? A team that can only win if our QB is 100% healthy and playing like a madden player? No man is ahead of his teammates.

I think of supporters of the read option and how other teams in the nfl run it with success. Well they had coaches who are careful and it works for them. They also use it drastically less and sparingly. It's great to have your QB tuck and run when it's open, it's effective to have the QB keep defenses aware he can run here and there. The Kyle approach is f'kn dangerous. 1 concussion, 1 major surgery, 1 blown home playoff game, and 1 2013 season ruined from a commitment to the read option.

We could have lost or won with Kirk. The team chose to proceed with Robert and not to give him experience in the pocket but running the same detrimental offense.

It is not all that impressive to see garçon approach 100, I expect that from him. That is what we paid him for. With all the busts at WR, we need him. But sadly we've seen how he can do more. And if we had a better system, we could have another 100 receiver.

The nfl is passing. The defense is handcuffed to play the passing game. The ass backward redskin approach goes against the grain and continues to be a laughing to the world to not get on board.

Lets stop the nonsense and adopt a pocket passer system. The discussion that 2013 was b/c Robert was hurt really needs to end b/c we had Kirk and even now that rob looks healthy, we play like 2012 can happen again but overlook the concussion and surgery b/c it's been accepted that the division ttle is equivalent to the Super Bowl.

That's thinking small and short range ie Read Option.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

Redskins don't seem to get the favorable calls that you speak off. The Refs don't protect our QB or give calls to our WRs.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923](snip part I'm not sure where you're coming from.)The way the conversation has continued, it seems many of you have accepted read option and want to see more of that. The endless problems I see with the read option begin with mind numbing blatant issues. Alfred is the RB and a very capable one at that. Historically what team has get won a Super Bowl with what Kyle is trying to establish?[/quote]Things change in the NFL. Case in point, historically superbowl winners weren't pass happy compared to today. Didn't stop teams adopting new trends in winning. And San Fran just made it to the SB with a RO QB.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]Often times Robert or WR's are getting carries- this is risk outweighing reward. We don't have 4 Roberts on the bench in case one breaks and opposing defenses are celebrating when we eat clock up, expose our QB to hits every play and take little nibbles of yardage. The real teams that are able to succeed have a passing attack. Ours is predicated on play action. It's predictable. We've seen 90% of passes be play action, not including when it is 2mins left in 4thqtr and trailing by 18, which seems to be the only times when no play action is used.[/quote]Again, San Fran isn't a real team? How about the 11-1 Seahawks this season? The RO is a valuable part of today's NFL offense if you have a QB that can run it.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]The rules of the game are geared to protect the QB. We have chosen to forfeit that proceed w/o caution. WR's have nearly all advantage against defenses and get flags in their favor now more than ever. We don't take any advantage of that and chose to keep them running short routes or lining up in the backfield.[/quote]No we haven't chosen to forfeit anything. When we choose to run, the RO works well for us, better than that darn pitch sweep ZB we keep trying. Because of poor line play, and Robert missing seeing open WRs, traditional drop back isn't working as well for us as play-action.

The one thing you said I agree with, yeah WRs regularly in the backfield seems weird. The rest is completely wrong, IMO.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]Look at how horribly the team has become on offense. Sure they have their moments- we have potential. Kyle's approach and philosophy is....too many words to convey.[/quote]I can summarize: Worked fine with RG3 last season. Until an open field hit on a scramble.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]Supporters of Read Option...will say, yeah in 2012 we won the division. But opposition will say, yeah and the teams mgt helped get him hurt and have been blinded by read option so much and gotten away from real football, that w/o Robert at full health, they have no clue how to win a game.[/quote]Robert wasn't hurt on RO plays. The injuries you refer to happened on scrambles, which will happen more using more traditional drop back passing. Robert's improved on the fix for that though, by heading OB and sliding more.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]What are we building? A team that can only win if our QB is 100% healthy and playing like a madden player? No man is ahead of his teammates.[/quote]Not sure where you're going with the last line, but I say go with what worked for us last season, and for the Niners and seachickens last season and now. The RO is a valuable asset to any QB that can run it.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]I think of supporters of the read option and how other teams in the nfl run it with success. Well they had coaches who are careful and it works for them. They also use it drastically less and sparingly. It's great to have your QB tuck and run when it's open, it's effective to have the QB keep defenses aware he can run here and there. The Kyle approach is f'kn dangerous. 1 concussion, 1 major surgery, 1 blown home playoff game, and 1 2013 season ruined from a commitment to the read option. [/quote]Again, we didn't run the RO most of the time, [U]and RG3 wasn't injured on any RO play.[/U] I'm surprised you aren't saying that drop back passing and scrambling isn't "f'kn dangerous". You'd be more accurate describing this team.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]We could have lost or won with Kirk. The team chose to proceed with Robert and not to give him experience in the pocket but running the same detrimental offense.[/quote]After the first sentence, everything above is wrong and addressed already. IMO.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]It is not all that impressive to see garçon approach 100, I expect that from him. That is what we paid him for. With all the busts at WR, we need him. But sadly we've seen how he can do more. And if we had a better system, we could have another 100 receiver.[/quote]Last season, Garcon was slowed by injury. Dunno if you blame that on the RO too. This season I think Garcon's less than stellar performances are due to: Robert playing his way back into shape and trying to learn how to be a drop back passer.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]The nfl is passing. The defense is handcuffed to play the passing game. The ass backward redskin approach goes against the grain and continues to be a laughing to the world to not get on board.[/quote]Funny, San Fran, Seattle, (to an extent some of the stuff GB and others do), and the teams they play against would beg to differ. Remember that SF and Sea started running more RO last season and still do BECAUSE they saw how effective it was for us.

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]Lets stop the nonsense and adopt a pocket passer system. The discussion that 2013 was b/c Robert was hurt really needs to end b/c we had Kirk and even now that rob looks healthy, we play like 2012 can happen again but overlook the concussion and surgery b/c it's been accepted that the division ttle is equivalent to the Super Bowl.

That's thinking small and short range ie Read Option.[/quote]Faulty opinion based on false assumptions, see above. We should work on adopting what system works with our current personnel. And that means including the RO, and the play action, and drop back passing, and feeding Alfmo the ball.

(screens and pitch sweeps should be minimized IMO. I think when we've run sweeps where Robert hands the ball off, it works better because D's have to respect the possible bootleg.)

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1045923]We have discussed, debated, and argued over Dobert this year.
With all the perspectives involved, what is really the best for the team, fans, and future?
[B]To me, it's embracing the nfl. Either accept it for what it is, or suffer and be left out 4 weeks into and 4 weeks before the regular season ends.[/B]

The way the conversation has continued, it seems many of you have accepted read option and want to see more of that. The endless problems I see with the read option begin with mind numbing blatant issues.....[/quote]

The NFL is an evolving game that brings about new wrinkles in the offense and defense with each passing decade. Knowing this, you might want to go back and rethink your post. Secondly, Griffin was not hurt on a read-option play against Baltimore. He was hurt simply trying to scramble.

I basically want to see more of whatever is successful. If it's smash mouth football, I want to see more of that. If it's the read option, bring it on. If it's bombs away - as long as the freakin' wide receiver catches the ball. You guys argue way too much about things you have no control over.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

It's mind numbing that some continue to focus in on the read option like it's the entire offense, when it reality it's a just play we might run a handful of times per game.

I like what Chip Kelly recently said about it:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians recently called the read-option offense a “great college offense.” Eagles coach Chip Kelly doesn’t see that as a slap at his approach, because Kelly doesn’t think he runs the read-option offense.

“I don’t think it’s an offense,” Kelly told reporters on Thursday. “I think it’s a play. And we don’t run read option if you want to get really technical. We run a zone read play every once in awhile. It’s like saying our offense is a power offense because we run the power play. Or the old Green Bay Packers, their offense was the Green Bay sweep offense and it isn’t. Everybody’s got a bunch of plays they run offensively, whether everybody’s got a quick game, everybody’s got screen, everybody’s got drop back, everybody’s got out‑of‑pocket, power, counter, inside zone. I never looked at it as an offense.”

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/28/chip-kelly-dubs-his-attack-the-see-coast-offense/]Chip Kelly dubs his attack the “See Coast Offense” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045969]It's mind numbing that some continue to focus in on the read option like it's the entire offense, when it reality it's a just play we might run a handful of times per game.

I like what Chip Kelly recently said about it:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians recently called the read-option offense a “great college offense.” Eagles coach Chip Kelly doesn’t see that as a slap at his approach, because Kelly doesn’t think he runs the read-option offense.

“I don’t think it’s an offense,” Kelly told reporters on Thursday. “I think it’s a play. And we don’t run read option if you want to get really technical. We run a zone read play every once in awhile. It’s like saying our offense is a power offense because we run the power play. Or the old Green Bay Packers, their offense was the Green Bay sweep offense and it isn’t. Everybody’s got a bunch of plays they run offensively, whether everybody’s got a quick game, everybody’s got screen, everybody’s got drop back, everybody’s got out‑of‑pocket, power, counter, inside zone. I never looked at it as an offense.”

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/28/chip-kelly-dubs-his-attack-the-see-coast-offense/]Chip Kelly dubs his attack the “See Coast Offense” | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Yea a play that I believe was ran 12% of the time somehow defined an entire offense.

People make it sound like the Skins are Auburn or Georgia Tech.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/quote]

Yea Sean Payton is an idiot too than I suppose.

The only thing I would like to see completely removed is that pitch option. Every time I see that I cringe because I am scared for the day where RG3 pitches it as he is getting hit, exposing his body, and then doesn't get up.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/quote]

Yup. Many teams put TE's and/or WR's in the backfield these days.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/quote]

My issue with such alignments is when we have basically 10 people in the box (usually in 2 RB 2 TE 2 WR sets) with only one WR split out wide and QB, TE, WR, RB in the backfield. There's no room to be explosive out of that set.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=donofriose;1045988]Yea Sean Payton is an idiot too than I suppose.

The only thing I would like to see completely removed is that pitch option. Every time I see that I cringe because I am scared for the day where RG3 pitches it as he is getting hit, exposing his body, and then doesn't get up.[/quote]Yeah, I like the pitch option in theory on the defensive end. But seems like by the time RG3 reaches a LB or secondary guy at the LOS to make a pitch option, he's already too close to the sideline to do much good.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/quote]

Using New Orleans is a poor example because they obviously spread the field and pass the ball as well as anyone. Besides, I don't see New Orleans running two man routes, or throwing 10 wr screens in one game. This offense was good last year, but Kyle had to have known that the defenses would catch up to it somewhat. Therefore he needed to have another change up....aka...hurry up offense, maybe more shifting and changing up his formations a bit more. It's not all on him, plays have been left out on the field.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/quote]WRs seems like a personnel mismatch to me. I'd prefer RBs and HBs and TEs there. I don't think that formation with WRs has done us any good, has it?

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1046000]Using New Orleans is a poor example because they obviously spread the field and pass the ball as well as anyone. Besides, I don't see New Orleans running two man routes, or throwing 10 wr screens in one game. This offense was good last year, but Kyle had to have known that the defenses would catch up to it somewhat. Therefore he needed to have another change up....aka...hurry up offense, maybe more shifting and changing up his formations a bit more. It's not all on him, plays have been left out on the field.[/quote]

I was just talking about different players lining up in the backfield which some people have a problem with, meanwhile plenty of teams do the same thing.

I'm sure Kyle would have loved to have done a bunch of different things this year. With RG rehabbing instead of practicing that kinda threw a wrench in those works and what he could expand on this year was pretty limited.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;1045996]Yup. Many teams put TE's and/or WR's in the backfield these days.[/quote]

The difference is those teams (Seattle, NO, NE and Denver especially) spread their guys out on the very next play and overall way more often than bunching up guys in the backfield.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

well a handful on this site have spoken. You all seem to prefer and defend the read option.
I am fine with my views, I understand your valid points. The team situation seems damn if they do and damned if they don't. However, to protect it behind statements like Robert doesn't get hurt on RO plays is counterproductive. He has had more registered injuries on scramble plays- Atlanta, Baltimore. Clap clap clap. Now can more logic come into the matter? This is a discussion that needs an open mind.

Rob is taking plenty of punishment. Have any of you RO supporters banging your chest in support and anger towards my opposition ever thought that if the RO wasn't being used and pocket passing pro system installed that Robert would have been mentored and tutored to be safer? Perhaps he doesn't get hit by ngata or concussed b/c we don't run that silly RO bullshit and have taken the time to install in him his value and like in golf its about the next play or game or season. I say Kyle's wreckless RO put Robert in harms way and he should have been protecting him on behalf of the team/fans rather than operating RO and making Rob think on a scramble play to go for everything. Its the mindset that no risk may occur and that is crazy. Defenses get paid to send poster boys home/hurt. Act like you know this Warpath!

I hear what you guys say on that but come now- I have seen him get hit to the ground on handoffs to Alfred and on the QB keeps he takes a lot of hits going out of bounds too. Some get flagged but most don't. Therefore, RO [B]DOES[/B] expose Robert to unneeded hits and will/does take a toll on him.

The comment about the RO being a thing we do sparingly- Yeah I'm not hearing that whatsoever Matty. That is the bread and butter behind this offense. Perhaps the only reason we haven't used it more is anyones guess either b/c we are losing, or Kyle is a shit play caller to bring that into every game. I think Kyle's play calling can be agreed and is common ground, yes?
I don't understand the rational to say something that is used a certain % of times of game isn't our offense. What would it take for you to say it was- 90-100% RO plays? No team, not even in college does that. Such a position does not impress me.

I feel like Im centered in an argument with stubborn people. Fine you have your views, I have mine. At the end of the day, I see the '12 season as a failure b/c we didn't win the super bowl and our QB got major surgery that cost us the '13 season. Adding to that, the coaches and WP fans think RO is going to work with the Shanahans b/c San Fran/Seattle have better coaching, players, and will be back to back participants in the Super Bowl. I just lose respect for that mindset. For the teams that don't have the full cast of talented players and coaches. Implementing more RO with a QB that has occurred [B]MORE[/B] injuries, with a shitty defense, is just outrageous. We gave up more to get Rob, have lost more than those now successful teams, and we bet the house to run a risky system? The '12 season was misleading. I thought Rob was being eased into the NFL and playcalling to be groomed into a pro style system. To think Shanahan hasn't learned his lesson is as awful as hiring his son.

Yes San Fran made it to the SBowl using RO. If we are pointing out obvious statements than I shall point out that they weren't as effective doing it, loss to the team we beat, and still managed to have more of a successful '12 and '13 season than we have b/c they have the intelligence to protect and tutor their QB and bring him along. Same can be said for Seattle. Both teams of which didn't break the draft bank to acquire their QB's of future either. I will be watching them in the playoffs at the same location the skins will be- from the couch.

These people supporting and defending the RO with technicalities quotes and references, I don't think adds anything to the real problems with the offense and like you, haven't
swayed my opinion not whatsoever. But again to the catch 22. We are so mixed up. We need repairs but who and what can fix us? Our problem is instability, but the foundation is crap. We needed more talent but lossed too many draft picks and cap space. Now that we have gotten some back, do we go down the same road with the same horrible coaches? We run a 3-4 but are the worst defense in the league. To fix it may be easier to revert [B]BACK [/B] to a 4-3. We have cap space but have to spend it resigning players that haven't performed as expected in years past or have been riddled with injuries. And WOrst of all, there is a divide in the fanbase over Read Option.

Idk when the homer flag stops getting waived but its gets really old hearing this propaganda. And the opposition is just as confused how the RO can even be criticized.

That's the Redskins. Play in MD, practice in VA, call it DC, and have to fight a civil rights issue to even be named. FML

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=donofriose;1045988]Yea Sean Payton is an idiot too than I suppose.

The only thing I would like to see completely removed is that pitch option. Every time I see that I cringe because I am scared for the day where RG3 pitches it as he is getting hit, exposing his body, and then doesn't get up.[/quote]

Jesus Christ. Payton is the best coach in the NFL. What if Jimmy Graham ran a pitch option? would that be ok with you? Has Payton not called it? Does that mean he is intelligent? b/c your jumping in the conversation and adding stink like a butthole.

And don't worry about the pitch option play and Robert getting hurt b/c in the past and as the WP scholars have pointed out, he doesn't get hurt in RO, only on scrambles.

Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1045984]And lining up receivers or tight ends in the backfield is a problem? I saw Jimmy Graham lining up in New Orleans' backfield the other night.[/QUOTE]

Alot of things are "problems" when you are a losing franchise. Its the way of the world. When you are winning nobody cares how it is done. When you are losing it is all about how it is done. Just boils down to execution and personnell really. Add in playcalling in the sense of timing. I just cannot decide if we dont have the talent to run kyles offense, or if kyles offense just isnt good? Or both? Time will tell I guess.

[QUOTE=Green Monk Machine;1046006]Jesus Christ. Payton is the best coach in the NFL. What if Jimmy Graham ran a pitch option? would that be ok with you? Has Payton not called it? Does that mean he is intelligent? b/c your jumping in the conversation and adding stink like a butthole.

And don't worry about the pitch option play and Robert getting hurt b/c in the past and as the WP scholars have pointed out, he doesn't get hurt in RO, only on scrambles.[/QUOTE]

Im going to venture a guess that donofriose was being sarcastic. Also, i think this is an open forum where people and their stinky buttholes are allowed to jump in at their leisure.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1046002]I was just talking about different players lining up in the backfield which some people have a problem with, meanwhile plenty of teams do the same thing.

[B]I'm sure Kyle would have loved to have done a bunch of different things this year. With RG rehabbing instead of practicing that kinda threw a wrench in those works and what he could expand on this year was pretty limited.[/quote][/B]

I agree somewhat. We're in week 13 now. At what point does the off season excuse go away? These are professionals. He can add wrinkles here and there.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

I agree with Paintrain and Goat on a point. Whereas I have no problem seeing tight sets with WR's and TE's SOMETIMES (we have some nice plays out of those sets), it also would be helpful if we spread those same personnel out at other times. This would spread the field horizontally to create an explosiveness, as Paintrain said. It also would add to defensive substitution problems, as the defense could see our personnel but not know whether to prepare for the power and deception of the tight sets or the aggression of the spread sets.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1046015][/B]

I agree somewhat. We're in week 13 now. At what point does the off season excuse go away? These are professionals. He can add wrinkles here and there.[/quote]

Teams are mostly focused on installing game plans during the week. Installing new stuff and practicing it is what the offseason is for.

Re: Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1046005]The comment about the RO being a thing we do sparingly- Yeah I'm not hearing that whatsoever Matty. That is the bread and butter behind this offense. Perhaps the only reason we haven't used it more is anyones guess either b/c we are losing, or Kyle is a shit play caller to bring that into every game. I think Kyle's play calling can be agreed and is common ground, yes?

I don't understand the rational to say something that is used a certain % of times of game isn't our offense. What would it take for you to say it was- 90-100% RO plays? No team, not even in college does that. Such a position does not impress me.[/quote]

Even last year we ran a true read option play about 8 times per game. Hardly bread and butter. But go ahead and believe what you want. Maybe you're confusing it with the pistol formation? And a lot of the plays that look like read option are just dummy calls with RG not actually making the read, it's a predetermined handoff instead.

[url=http://mmqb.si.com/2013/09/11/redskins-49ers-packers-read-option-dead/]The Read-Option As We Knew It Is Dead. Long Live the Read-Option | The MMQB with Peter King[/url]

[url=http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/al-galdi/item/872-the-fact-based-truth-about-the-redskins-2012-offense]The Fact-Based Truth About The Redskins' 2012 Offense[/url]

If we run goal line a few times a game, nobody is calling it a goal line offense. So why say something is our offense when it's not being run but a handful of times a game? There are definitely teams in college that run it a heck of a lot more often and you could say that's their offense.