Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045736]To clarify, what I said was Haslett was not Shanny's first or second choice. But it was a Shanahan decision. What I said about Snyder was that most people don't know in the summer of 99, he tried to hire Haslett away from the Steelers to be our HC. Cowher was livid that Snyder would try such a thing right as training camp is about to start that he got the league to deny Snyder's request to even interview Haslett. So with that background, I simply wonder what-if any-influence Snyder has on JH staying[/quote]

Ah ok thanks for clearing it up.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045736]To clarify, what I said was Haslett was not Shanny's first or second choice. But it was a Shanahan decision. What I said about Snyder was that most people don't know in the summer of 99, he tried to hire Haslett away from the Steelers to be our HC. Cowher was livid that Snyder would try such a thing right as training camp is about to start that he got the league to deny Snyder's request to even interview Haslett. So with that background, I simply wonder what-if any-influence Snyder has on JH staying[/quote]

Maybe it was you I saw that from then. I remember reading that he wasn't the first couple of choices that Shanahan wanted.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

If Snyder relieves Shanahan, I hope that the first hire is a GM who is empowered to choose the next HC, and that said GM is responsible for managing our draft and free agency. I love how John Schneider has built the Seahawks on both sides of the ball. They play a very physical brand of football reminiscent of the Gibbs 1.0 glory years. I am so done seeing our undersized OL bullied by bigger, more physical defenses, not to mention the weekly assault that Griffin endures. Bring in a proven GM like Schneider, and I will support whomever he chooses to lead our team.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1045754]If Snyder relieves Shanahan, I hope that the first hire is a GM who is empowered to choose the next HC, and that said GM is responsible for managing our draft and free agency. I love how John Schneider has built the Seahawks on both sides of the ball. They play a very physical brand of football reminiscent of the Gibbs 1.0 glory years. I am so done seeing our undersized OL bullied by bigger, more physical defenses, not to mention the weekly assault that Griffin endures. Bring in a proven GM like Schneider, and I will support whomever he chooses to lead our team.[/quote]

Pete Carroll hired Schneider and calls the shots there personnel wise. Schneider is more of an advisor to him and not a true GM. Much like Allen and Shanahan here.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045766]Pete Carroll hired Schneider and calls the shots there personnel wise. Schneider is more of an advisor to him and not a true GM. Much like Allen and Shanahan here.[/quote]Schneider must be giving pretty good advice given the impact players that they have drafted outside of the first couple rounds. I still want an empowered GM to select the next coach, much as Bobby Beathard advised Jack Kent Cooke to give a little known Joe Gibbs a shot.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045736]To clarify, what I said was Haslett was not Shanny's first or second choice. But it was a Shanahan decision. What I said about Snyder was that most people don't know in the summer of 99, he tried to hire Haslett away from the Steelers to be our HC. Cowher was livid that Snyder would try such a thing right as training camp is about to start that he got the league to deny Snyder's request to even interview Haslett. So with that background, I simply wonder what-if any-influence Snyder has on JH staying[/quote]

This is interesting considering the fact that B. Mitchel made the claim on CSN that Haslett is being handcuffed in terms of doing what he really wants to do. The OC and DC needs to go, promote Rahim Morris to DC move Slowick to DB coach and add Monte Coleman to teach linebackers.

They should also fire Chris Foerster and pay Russ Grimm an insane amount of money to come out of retirement to be the o-line coach. I understand Russ is not a zone- blocking expert, however he can possibly salvage LeRibeus and develop offensive line talent.

Can Mike McDaniel teach and develop men, I don't know.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045736]To clarify, what I said was Haslett was not Shanny's first or second choice. But it was a Shanahan decision. What I said about Snyder was that most people don't know in the summer of 99, he tried to hire Haslett away from the Steelers to be our HC. Cowher was livid that Snyder would try such a thing right as training camp is about to start that he got the league to deny Snyder's request to even interview Haslett. So with that background, I simply wonder what-if any-influence Snyder has on JH staying[/quote]

Hhhmmm. So interesting scenario that could explain things a bit. Snyder persuades Mike to hire Jim Haslett - a coach that Snyder was denied access to a few years ago. I can see this as sort of a "trophy" situation for Dan. His thinking could be, when Mike moves on, Haslett not only hopefully does a great job with the defense, but is prepped to be the next head coach under a Super Bowl winning head coach in Mike Shanahan. So Dan's vision is to have whatever success he could have with Mike Shanahan, and when Shanahan leaves, Haslett - who Snyder wanted as head coach years ago - takes over to hopefully keep the franchise winning. In the end, Dan Snyder gets what he wants. Just like it was before he officially hired Mike Shanahan. Shanahan was reportedly interested more in going to Dallas, but Dan somehow is able to hire Shanahan away from the Cowboys. So again, in the end, Dan gets what/who he wants. That's why I can see this as a trophy situation.

The only problem is, Haslett is not working out so hot, and Mike, for that matter, is struggling as well. So maybe Snyder is able to come to grips the fact that he was wrong about Haslett, but is he thinking the same thing about Shanahan? Or, is he willing to give this situation to Bruce Allen or the next GM (whoever he is) and say "fix this?" It's all speculation on my part and I could be very wrong, but it makes sense.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045736]To clarify, what I said was Haslett was not Shanny's first or second choice. But it was a Shanahan decision. What I said about Snyder was that most people don't know in the summer of 99, he tried to hire Haslett away from the Steelers to be our HC. Cowher was livid that Snyder would try such a thing right as training camp is about to start that he got the league to deny Snyder's request to even interview Haslett. So with that background, I simply wonder what-if any-influence Snyder has on JH staying[/quote]

Be honest, is the Haslett situation due at least in part to many/most coaches not wanting to work with Shanny?

He's fired so many DC's and seems to have so few good relationships around the league, I've wondered since the beginning if Haslett was maybe the only guy who would work with Mike. Same goes for the kiddo.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=The Goat;1045798]Be honest, is the Haslett situation due at least in part to many/most coaches not wanting to work with Shanny?

He's fired so many DC's and seems to have so few good relationships around the league, I've wondered since the beginning if Haslett was maybe the only guy who would work with Mike. Same goes for the kiddo.[/quote]

You're totally off. The first choice, Mike Zimmer, had just lost his wife and didn't want to put his kids through the added stress of relocating.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

some of U guys get to worked up on behind the scene stuff

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045801]You're totally off. The first choice, Mike Zimmer, had just lost his wife and didn't want to put his kids through the added stress of relocating.[/quote]

I'm not getting through to you. Mike's in his fourth year and we've been stuck with Haslett the whole time because Zimmer's wife died??

Over the last four years a solid handful of really, really good defensive coaches have been available, many specializing in the 3-4. Wade Philips (worked with Mike before), Rob Ryan come to mind immediately. There's more. Why have we not upgraded the position is the bottom line question?

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=The Goat;1045798]Be honest, is the Haslett situation due at least in part to many/most coaches not wanting to work with Shanny?

He's fired so many DC's and seems to have so few good relationships around the league, I've wondered since the beginning if Haslett was maybe the only guy who would work with Mike. Same goes for the kiddo.[/quote]

???

Who has fired so many DC's? MS? wasn't the reason MS was fired from Denver was because he refused to fire his DC?

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=The Goat;1045803]I'm not getting through to you. Mike's in his fourth year and we've been stuck with Haslett the whole time because Zimmer's wife died??

Over the last four years a solid handful of really, really good defensive coaches have been available, many specializing in the 3-4. Wade Philips (worked with Mike before), Rob Ryan come to mind immediately. There's more. Why have we not upgraded the position is the bottom line question?[/quote]

I have never heard anyone say that people don't want to work with Shanahan. Anyone credible to me that is.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=The Goat;1045803]I'm not getting through to you. Mike's in his fourth year and we've been stuck with Haslett the whole time because Zimmer's wife died??

Over the last four years a solid handful of really, really good defensive coaches have been available, many specializing in the 3-4. Wade Philips (worked with Mike before), Rob Ryan come to mind immediately. There's more. Why have we not upgraded the position is the bottom line question?[/quote]

Sorry, didn't take that one step further to read the next post. I totally agree. MS gets too loyal with his coaches I think is why we have not upgraded (personally) but .... I think DS allows MS to finish out his 5 yrs as agreed to prior to hiring him. But if MS wants success he needs to fire Haslett and bring in a more qualified DC preferably in the 3-4 so there is not much change, Fix the offense, use the $36 mill to bring in decent talent on both sides of the ball to "fix" this teams issues that he wants to blame on the $36 mill punishment and make something happen next year. Otherwise I don't see an extention.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1045810]I have never heard anyone say that people don't want to work with Shanahan. Anyone credible to me that is.[/quote]

Just like in any business, Shanahan would not have lasted this long in the league if he were constantly alienating others and driving capable people away.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

If I could change my vote: what do I think "will" happen? MS stays his 5th year and if he fixes this hot mess then he gets an extention or something. If he fails he's not retained.

What I would like to see happen: MS fired. and....

HC: Jon Gruden
OC: Jay Gruden
DC: Lovie Smith (Tampa Two) < if he'll take the job. Great DC, just OK- HC.

I would throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly just to come back for 3-5 yrs and rework his magic over these guys. I'd keep Allen also.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045708]After seeing the Seattle last night, maybe Darrell Bevell is the best option.[/quote]

Yep. If no Shaw, then Bevell he knows what he's doing.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=Lotus;1045816]Just like in any business, Shanahan would not have lasted this long in the league if he were constantly alienating others and driving capable people away.[/quote]

I cringe everytime i hear that statement about business.

It is 100% not true. I'm not saying Football is just like business.

But i know of a company that just closed down last year - local folks who were in business since 1929.

they rubbed everybody the wrong way, owed the entire county money, had a class action lawsuit against them, and finally went out of business.

The point is they lasted almost 100 years before they went out.

Lots of shit companies still exist in the world that does everything wrong from A to Z.

Please Lotus don't take that offensively i just have always hated the analogy that because something has been around a long time, means its successful..

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=Lotus;1045816]Just like in any business, Shanahan would not have lasted this long in the league if he were constantly alienating others and driving capable people away.[/quote]

Ha. My time working with a prominent political radio host would suggest otherwise. Regardless, I don't think Shanny is disliked around the league.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

I just don't get the love fest over Jon Gruden, it's probably the same who all wanted Shanny here in the first place because of his name. If we move I would rather have a younger Coordinator from somewhere who is hungry to prove himself in the league and let him build his legacy. I am done with the big name guys.

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1045820]Yep. If no Shaw, then Bevell he knows what he's doing.[/QUOTE]

Shaw is my 1st choice as well but gruden is 2

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1045722]Wait what? Mike wasn't responsible for hiring Haslett?


If the relationship between him and Robert is as you say, then yes there is nothing more to discuss in terms of whether he stays or goes.


Cant' stand Mike Wise, but this is a pretty good article that HTTR/LL linked.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahan-tried-to-stick-with-robert-griffin-iii-and-might-have-lost-him-instead/2013/12/02/656d75bc-5ba6-11e3-a66d-156b463c78aa_story.html]Mike Shanahan tried to stick with Robert Griffin III, and might have lost him instead - The Washington Post[/url]

Funny how the one act that Shanny thought would bring him closer to his QB may very well be the one that pushed him away. I just for the life of me can't understand why he didn't pull him. Like I said, Mike has lost his balls.[/quote]

What a crap article. So Shanahan was too nice for keeping RG in that game, but never openly took any responsibility for the outcome?? Just asinine.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

Ditka. Full size.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

Nah Ditka is way done... lol

As a fan who doesn't really like any of the coaches that are on the list other than the Gruden's and Shaw I would be ok with Jon. He is an easy sell to the fans, could be a viable marketing tool for the team, bring in excitement, belief in the offseason and SELL TICKETS, but can he get lasting results in the win column unlike any of the past 23 years of coaches. I don't know and if I had an answer I would tell you guys. They/we can spin all of these coaches a hundred different ways positively and negatively.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1045826]Shaw is my 1st choice as well but gruden is 2[/quote]

My beef with Gruden is he doesn't do well with QB's (got lucky with Gannon and TB D helped Johnson). Bevell has done a pretty good job in Seattle, they have been a high scoring offense since he took over and done a great job using Wilson and Lynch.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1045836]Nah Ditka is way done... lol

As a fan who doesn't really like any of the coaches that are on the list other than the Gruden's and Shaw I would be ok with Jon. He is an easy sell to the fans, could be a viable marketing tool for the team, [B][COLOR="Red"]bring in excitement, belief in the offseason and SELL TICKETS, but can he get lasting results in the win column unlike any of the past 23 years of coaches.[/COLOR][/B] I don't know and if I had an answer I would tell you guys. They/we can spin all of these coaches a hundred different ways positively and negatively.[/quote]


That is the F'ing problem going after a coach to sell tixs and marketing. We have just done this with Shanny and it can be said he was going to bring us results in the win column unlike we have seen in 23 years. Jon Gruden is no better than Shanny IMO...just because he does those stupid QB Camp shows for the draft and pretends to know about QB's, what young QB did he ever develop while he was in the league..or maybe its his play by play on MNF when he says "that play was spider 2 Y banana".

I am ok with letting Shanny go, but we always go after a name, then either give up too soon or its doesnt work. Marty let him go before he could do anything, Spurrier..thats all that needs to said...Joe Gibbs brought us a couple good years but didnt build anything, Zorn...thats all that needs to be said, and now Shanny. All of these except Zorn was about tix sales and marketing.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1045839]My beef with Gruden is he doesn't do well with QB's (got lucky with Gannon and TB D helped Johnson). Bevell has done a pretty good job in Seattle, they have been a high scoring offense since he took over and done a great job using Wilson and Lynch.[/quote]

Rich Gannon didn't put up any kind of passing numbers until Gruden was hired in Oak. I'd say Gannon got lucky that Gruden became his coach.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1045823]I cringe everytime i hear that statement about business.

It is 100% not true. I'm not saying Football is just like business.

But i know of a company that just closed down last year - local folks who were in business since 1929.

[B]they [/B]rubbed everybody the wrong way, owed the entire county money, had a class action lawsuit against them, and finally went out of business.

The point is they lasted almost 100 years before they went out.

Lots of shit companies still exist in the world that does everything wrong from A to Z.

Please Lotus don't take that offensively i just have always hated the analogy that because something has been around a long time, means its successful..[/quote]

"They" ran the company for 100 years? Or is just the most recent generation problematic, hence the closing of their doors after years of success? Your example seems to prove my point.

Also, I wasn't arguing that Shanahan does everything right. I simply pointed to staying power.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=mbedner3420;1045824]Ha. My time working with a prominent political radio host would suggest otherwise. Regardless, I don't think Shanny is disliked around the league.[/quote]

Fair enough about your experience. Obviously there are some exceptions. But it is still my experience and the experience of others of several professions, both directly and through close friends, that people who rub others wrong often have limited staying power. They may have successful professional lives but still some doors close for them which don't close for others. I didn't mean to say anything controversial on this count.

In my own experience on hiring committees, all of the finalists for a job are qualified. The question then becomes more about "can we get along?" and less about other factors.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=Lotus;1045843]Fair enough about your experience. Obviously there are some exceptions. But it is still my experience and the experience of others of several professions, both directly and through close friends, that people who rub others wrong often have limited staying power. They may have successful professional lives but still some doors close for them which don't close for others. I didn't mean to say anything controversial on this count.

In my own experience on hiring committees, all of the finalists for a job are qualified. The question then becomes more about "can we get along?" and less about other factors.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.[/quote]

Please don't misconstrue my statement, nothing about your comment was remotely controversial. In fact, 9/10 times you are absolutely right. But every now and again, that douchey 10 percent eeks their way to the top somehow lol.

More than anything else, I'm probably just still jaded lol.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1045841]Rich Gannon didn't put up any kind of passing numbers until Gruden was hired in Oak. I'd say Gannon got lucky that Gruden became his coach.[/quote]

Disagree, Gannon did ok in Minnesota and Washington. Bill Callahan and then Marc Trestman were the OC's and guess who the QB coach was in 2001? David Shaw. Having Jerry Rice and Tim Brown also helped, Gannon didn't have receivers in Washington.

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1045845]Disagree, Gannon did ok in Minnesota and Washington. Bill Callahan and then Marc Trestman were the OC's and guess who the QB coach was in 2001? David Shaw. Having Jerry Rice and Tim Brown also helped, Gannon didn't have receivers in Washington.[/QUOTE]

Gannon was a flop with the Redskins. I give Trestman full credit for Gannons great years in Oakland. Trestmans record with QB's in college and the pros is unreal.

[QUOTE=punch it in;1045847]Gannon was a flop with the Redskins. I give Trestman full credit for Gannons great years in Oakland. Trestmans record with QB's in college and the pros is unreal.[/QUOTE]

Dude has mccown ballin in Chicago,.he's a Qb genius

The Colts brought up Xavier Nixon to their 53-man roster today. Wasn't he on our PS at some point? With our O-line worries, doesn't this seem like we missed an opportunity? The Colts o-line isn't great, but it must be better than ours. So we have LeRib who looks like he won't ever see the playing field and a guy we cut may for a team that's a lot better than ours. Makes me feel great about our talent evaluators.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1045845]Disagree, Gannon did ok in Minnesota and Washington. Bill Callahan and then Marc Trestman were the OC's and guess who the QB coach was in 2001? David Shaw. Having Jerry Rice and Tim Brown also helped, Gannon didn't have receivers in Washington.[/quote]

He was either OC or QB coach in Philly with Ty "F*ckin" Detmer and had him ballin. Gruden knows how to coach QB.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=calia;1045851]The Colts brought up Xavier Nixon to their 53-man roster today. Wasn't he on our PS at some point? With our O-line worries, doesn't this seem like we missed an opportunity? The Colts o-line isn't great, but it must be better than ours. So we have LeRib who looks like he won't ever see the playing field and a guy we cut may for a team that's a lot better than ours. Makes me feel great about our talent evaluators.[/quote]

I wanted the Skins to draft Nixon, so I was thrilled when they picked him up as an UDFA. Alas, they let him get away.

Nixon is big, athletic, and fast, with long arms. From the little I saw of him, I felt that, in time, he could develop into a starting NFL OT.

When the Skins draft McRib Bust in the 3rd Round, then keep him on the 53-man roster while letting a good prospect like Nixon get away, I can see why you might think that somebody at Redskins Park is clueless about O-Line talent.

p.s. Full disclosure: I am so done with Shanahan that I am likely to criticize just about anything he does or has done or doesn't do or hasn't done.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

As much as I don’t disagree that drafting under the Shanny reign has been less than spectacular, let’s remember that every other team passed on Nixon. If he goes on to have even a solid career then maybe chalk him up as one who got away, but let’s wait and see what he does in any given game-time for Indy.

Is there any further indication of where the process is with the new GM btw? I know Smoot mentioned a few weeks back that Morocco Brown was favourite. If that’s the case, do we have any idea what kind of coach he’d go for if indeed Mike doesn't stick around, i.e. a young up and coming college guy? A co-ordinator who is overdue a HC role? A former HC who has been out of the game for a period of time? Or someone else completely out of left field?

I don't disagree with the point that it is too early to conclude that Nixon will be a solid NFL contributor. My point simply is that for a part of our team that is a glaring weakness, seeing a guy we cut go to another playoff bound teams active roster is frustrating. (It would be one thing if it were a RB - we seem pretty set there. ). And it does make me question talent evaluation. It is spotty at best. I can only hope that Rambo, Thomas, and Amerson all pan out and become starters or real contributors. We will need that in order to be able to concentrate on drafting or signing guys pretty much everywhere else but at the QB and RB position, which are the only ones that I think we can safely not worry about this offseason.

Oh, and why aren't we auditioning a new punter already? Sav has been awful (I don't pin the botched snap on him this week or course), I imagine we could pick up someone at this point and see improvement.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

Mort was on the radio in Atlanta this morning and a friend of mine sent me what he had to say about the situation in Washington:
[I]Chris Mortensen had some critical words about Bob's leadership ability and said he blames Snyder for creating the problem. He did not dog Bob but questioned whether he could be the leader as a franchise QB. He said Baby Shanny was a great coach and it would be a mistake to let him go. Also said Daddy Shanny may not want to be back because he felt undermined by Snyder. [/I]
This was on 93.7 The Fan.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1045841]Rich Gannon didn't put up any kind of passing numbers until Gruden was hired in Oak. I'd say Gannon got lucky that Gruden became his coach.[/quote]

Looking at Gannon's stats, I don't think it has so much to do with Gruden as it does, specifically, with Tressman and/or Callahan. I credit Gruden for putting the right coaching staff together. However, we know if Gruden were to be hired, he couldn't go out and grab Tressman. Seeing how Tressman has faired with McCown, I'd wager that it was more Tressman developing Rich Gannon into the QB he became late in his career, than it was Gruden or even Callahan.

Looking at Brad Johnson's stats, he had just as good, if not better numbers before Gruden came to Tampa Bay. In fact, Johnson had his best, statistical season with the Redskins in 1999. Marc Tressman was still in Oakland when Gruden came to TB. With that said, I would think quarterback development is credited to Tressman and not Gruden.

So, if Gruden were to be hired, he would need to hit on the right coaching staff around him to make things successful. I don't really believe Gruden, himself, would be the savior for the Redskins. No more than Mike Shanahan.