Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094635]I'm not saying fire him, just that so far he's not doing a good job. And fair or not if he doesn't start winning some games he's going to be on the hot seat sooner rather than later.

The honeymoon is over, we need to start seeing some signs that he can get things on the right track. So far he's shown to have little command over the locker room and the team is seriously underperforming across the board.[/quote]

I really believe that there isnt any coach out there that can win in in this dysfunctional organization.

It blows my mind that anyone could think the honeymoon is over because its barely even started. Its not like Gruden took over NE or Balt that are solid organizations that consistently win. He took over one of the worst team in the NFL that has been terrible for 20 years. It will be a miracle if he could get it turned around in 5 years.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1094668]He may have the skills to learn it, but can he do it at a concert or in front of a live crowd? That's the issue. He may look ok at practice when he knows he's not going to get hit. But game time, he can't process everything at game speed. The NFL passing game seems to fast for him.[/quote]

Fair enough. We agree that the problem is mental, not talent.

Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1094675]Fair enough. We agree that the problem is mental, not talent.[/QUOTE]


This is getting off topic now and we are splitting hairs. It doesnt really matter why he doesnt get it just that he doesnt get it. However, if it is a mental thing and not talent than would it be fair to say that you could take any 6-2, 220 lb twenty something who runs fast and can throw a football and put them in the NFL? I mean how do you define talent? Isnt the ability to master any craft a talent? I think you are confusing athleticism and talent.
Edit: Skinsfan didnt say talent he said skills. It takes "talent" to apply the physical skill set to a craft and have it translate into success.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094677]This is getting off topic now and we are splitting hairs. It doesnt really matter why he doesnt get it just that he doesnt get it. However, if it is a mental thing and not talent than would it be fair to say that you could take any 6-2, 220 lb twenty something who runs fast and can throw a football and put them in the NFL? I mean how do you define talent? Isnt the ability to master any craft a talent? I think you are confusing athleticism and talent.[/quote]

I agree. I think RG3 has both athleticism and talent but the athleticism and talent he has does not seem to match up with what a top NFL QB needs to succeed.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=irish;1094678]I agree. I think RG3 has both athleticism and talent but the athleticism and talent he has does not seem to match up with what a top NFL QB needs to succeed.[/QUOTE]


His "talent" is as a spread offense running qb, he does not have the "talent" imo to be a top flite NFL qb today. What it boils down to is can he learn that talent? Also how long would it take. I would love to play guitar to a stadium full of people, and i certainly have the physical attributes to play a damn guitar. But i might not ever acquire the talent and if i do i might be 90 feckin years old by the time im ready to play for a crowd. I hope if that happens you will all come out to support me.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094679]His "talent" is as a spread offense running qb, he does not have the "talent" imo to be a top flite NFL qb today. What it boils down to is can he learn that talent? Also how long would it take. I would love to play guitar to a stadium full of people, and i certainly have the physical attributes to play a damn guitar. But i might not ever acquire the talent and if i do i might be 90 feckin years old by the time im ready to play for a crowd. I hope if that happens you will all come out to support me.[/quote]

Its generally acknowledged that it takes 10K hours to master a new skill. That roughly equates to 40hrs per week for 5 years so you better start practicing that guitar and RG3 better start practicing his new skills.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

shouldnt we give him the last 6 games before deciding his future?

wasnt that the clear plan going into the Minn and TB game?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1094681]shouldnt we give him the last 6 games before deciding his future?



wasnt that the clear plan going into the Minn and TB game?[/QUOTE]


Absolutely and it still is, but without conjecture it would be very quiet around here....[emoji4]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

I cant believe I'm saying this but at the end of the season if hes mostly healthy (deep inhale) what is Griffins trade value?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Alvin Walton;1094685]I cant believe I'm saying this but at the end of the season if hes mostly healthy (deep inhale) what is Griffins trade value?[/QUOTE]


Wow. Havent thought about that. I really cannot imagine getting better than a third rounder if he continues to play like this. God that would be an awful turn of events. Plus than we would be arguing about whether we gave up three firsts or two firsts for a third.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1094685]I cant believe I'm saying this but at the end of the season if hes mostly healthy (deep inhale) what is Griffins trade value?[/quote]

He will be here for 2015 but I'm not sure they will extend him for 2016. These last few games will go a long way to deciding if they want to extend him because I think that decision has to be made in the spring. I'd be shocked if he isnt extended because RG3 is DS's guy so he will pull the trigger on the extension no matter what anyone else wants. The only way he isnt extended is if he gets injured before the deal is signed.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1094685]I cant believe I'm saying this but at the end of the season if hes mostly healthy (deep inhale) what is Griffins trade value?[/quote]

Fourth rounder maybe?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=irish;1094689]He will be here for 2015 but I'm not sure they will extend him for 2016. These last few games will go a long way to deciding if they want to extend him because I think that decision has to be made in the spring. I'd be shocked if he isnt extended because RG3 is DS's guy so he will pull the trigger on the extension no matter what anyone else wants. The only way he isnt extended is if he gets injured before the deal is signed.[/QUOTE]


As per the article SF posted, they have until May of 15 (before the season) to decide whether to exercise the 2016 option that pays him i think 18 mill. So if he is here in 2015 wouldnt that mean they are paying him for 2016 also? If that is correct i believe they have these six games to make up their minds.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1094637]Can't fairly judge Gruden until he gets his QB in here. Clearly, RG3 is not his guy.[/QUOTE]


Gruden isn't the first guy to take over a team and inherit a QB. For someone who's supposed to be a QB guru I'm not seeing much.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=irish;1094669]I really believe that there isnt any coach out there that can win in in this dysfunctional organization.



It blows my mind that anyone could think the honeymoon is over because its barely even started. Its not like Gruden took over NE or Balt that are solid organizations that consistently win. He took over one of the worst team in the NFL that has been terrible for 20 years. It will be a miracle if he could get it turned around in 5 years.[/QUOTE]


So how long until he's on the hot seat? Is a 3-13 season not going to generate any discussion at all in that department? What if some hotshot candidate becomes available? I wouldn't give Gruden more than 2 years tops if he doesn't show strong signs of improvement next year.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094692]Gruden isn't the first guy to take over a team and inherit a QB. For someone who's supposed to be a QB guru I'm not seeing much.[/quote]

Gruden cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear in only a few games.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=irish;1094689]He will be here for 2015 but I'm not sure they will extend him for 2016. These last few games will go a long way to deciding if they want to extend him because I think that decision has to be made in the spring. [B]I'd be shocked if he isnt extended because RG3 is DS's guy so he will pull the trigger on the extension no matter what anyone else wants.[/B] The only way he isnt extended is if he gets injured before the deal is signed.[/quote]

i dont think RG3 would want to re-up here.

I think the DS knows that rg3 is no longer his gravy train and he has to move on as well. RG3 returning, barring a turn around, will not sell tickets next year.

in the offseason, the DS needs to think long and hard at how he will try to re-brand and sell us hope in a shiny new package. the RG3 toy is sooo 2012.

[COLOR="Sienna"]Suh sounds about right. Could you imagine the havoc he would cause and make everyone around him better. he is the missing piece of the defense. he immediately improves the secondary and will require double teams. [/COLOR]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=irish;1094695]Gruden cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear in only a few games.[/QUOTE]


Ok so we should have patience with Gruden, but not with the QBs. I get it.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/steve-young-coaches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/]Steve Young: Coaches have told me RG3 doesn’t put in the time | ProFootballTalk[/url]

*sigh*

Hear comes the piling on we've seen in past years. Who's next to take a shot?

[B]To me, Gruden's comments let everybody know its open season on RG3. [/B]

Hearsay, b.s., rumors, etc. all this shit is getting shoveled our way. And on PTF, Florio hates the Redskins so I look for them to lead

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094694]So how long until he's on the hot seat? Is a 3-13 season not going to generate any discussion at all in that department? What if some hotshot candidate becomes available? I wouldn't give Gruden more than 2 years tops if he doesn't show strong signs of improvement next year.[/quote]

No doubt he's on the hot seat now. So what if a new hot shot becomes available, the Skins have already gone the new hot shot route (Spurrier & Gruden). They went the old vet coach route (Gibbs & Marty) and the recently retired SB Champ coach (Shanny) as well. None of it has worked because its never given a chance to work. Firing Gruden after 2 years would be a huge mistake because this team is so broken it cant be fixed in under 5 years.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094677]This is getting off topic now and we are splitting hairs. It doesnt really matter why he doesnt get it just that he doesnt get it. However, if it is a mental thing and not talent than would it be fair to say that you could take any 6-2, 220 lb twenty something who runs fast and can throw a football and put them in the NFL? I mean how do you define talent? Isnt the ability to master any craft a talent? I think you are confusing athleticism and talent.
Edit: Skinsfan didnt say talent he said skills. It takes "talent" to apply the physical skill set to a craft and have it translate into success.[/quote]

Let me put it this way: When a play calls for a 3-step drop, it is not a difficult skill to learn to drop back three steps. Not one step, or five steps, or two steps and two side hops, but three steps. This is not difficult - it is not like a guitarist learning the violin.

Since RGIII has not learned this easy-to-learn skill, he either is:
a) dumb as a hammer
or
b) willfully refuses to learn

You choose.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1094700][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/steve-young-coaches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/]Steve Young: Coaches have told me RG3 doesn’t put in the time | ProFootballTalk[/url]



*sigh*



Hear comes the piling on we've seen in past years. Who's next to take a shot?



[B]To me, Gruden's comments let everybody know its open season on RG3. [/B]



Hearsay, b.s., rumors, etc. all this shit is getting shoveled our way. And on PTF, Florio hates the Redskins so I look for them to lead[/QUOTE]


Shanny at it again

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094698]Ok so we should have patience with Gruden, but not with the QBs. I get it.[/quote]

This is RGs 3rd season. Sure he has had injury issues but he's not exactly a rookie anymore. I think you have to play RG3 for the rest of the season no matter what happens to see what he can do and if he can improve.

Patients is needed with both but players are easier to fit into an established system than fitting a system to 52 players.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094692]Gruden isn't the first guy to take over a team and inherit a QB. For someone who's supposed to be a QB guru I'm not seeing much.[/quote]

Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction? I love RGIII probably as much as you do, Matty, but maybe we need to admit that coaching up a player only goes so far until the player has to respond and show the ability to regurgitate what has been taught to him.

For example, I've had situations in my career where I've had a tough time figuring out how to program certain things. I have the skills, talent, and intelligence to do the job, but I was having a hard time "getting it". It took me longer, but once I figured out this particular skill, I was one the best ones at it. Maybe that's just what's wrong with RGIII. He's got the ability, the intelligence, the talent, but it's just going to take him a little longer. Maybe he's just not ready quite yet? And maybe the first step in taking the leap forward is for RGIII to admit that and accept his limitations. And once he's mentally "right", then it's much easier to work on those areas.

I still believe RGIII can be a great quarterback in this league, but he needs to admit he needs help and he's just not there yet. He needs to pair himself with a former great quarterback, someone who could just give him a glimpse into what it takes to be great. The preparation, the mental toughness - that's what he needs.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

At this point, Im not happy with Gruden, RG3, Haslett, and the entire FO. I dont think anybody should be.

But Im not calling for Gruden or RG3 to be let go, but I need to see some growth by the end of the year.

Anybody know what Cooley been saying after this recent loss? Like to hear his point of view

Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1094702]Let me put it this way: When a play calls for a 3-step drop, it is not a difficult skill to learn to drop back three steps. Not one step, or five steps, or two steps and two side hops, but three steps. This is not difficult - it is not like a guitarist learning the violin.



Since RGIII has not learned this easy-to-learn skill, he either is:

a) dumb as a hammer

or

b) willfully refuses to learn



You choose.[/QUOTE]


Lol. There are several other nuances to the WCO. I think all of those things are going thru his head and he is trying desperately at the same time to read the defense, make adjustments, etc. All of this is part of being a pro style qb, and it's causing him to try and buy time with extra steps and ball pats while he figures it out. The original discussion was is Griff capable of learning the WCO and than having it translate onto the field. So what do you think it is? A or B? I find it hard to believe he is willfully unable to learn. I find it hard to believe he is dumb as a stump. What I dont find hard to believe is that he cannot convert from a system he excelled in to a system he never played in. It wouldnt be the first time a spread offense QB didnt make it in the NFL. Why is it so hard to believe RG-3 cant either?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

At some point you can't keep turning over the Head Coach job at the rate the Skins do. You all saw with the Zorn fiasco, we got him because our first choices said no thanks. This franchise can no longer get the pick of litter as far as coaches go. If I was a top OC or DC and Washington came at me with an offer, I would pass and stay where I was, because lots of times you get 1 chance at head coach and you don't want it to be at a place with a mess of a Front Office and owner. [B]Since 2000 the Skins are on their 8th Head coach. That is a bad stat. [/B]

I know this from personal experience, if you take a job that has had a extremely high turnover, chances are there is something wrong with the job and not just the people hired to do the job.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094714]At this point, Im not happy with Gruden, RG3, Haslett, and the entire FO. I dont think anybody should be.

But Im not calling for Gruden or RG3 to be let go, but I need to see some growth by the end of the year.

Anybody know what Cooley been saying after this recent loss? Like to hear his point of view[/quote]

cooley film breakdown should be today and tomorrow at 5 sharp. im not sure if he is doing offense or defense today.

Wish they would move it back to like 5:30 or 6 when i leave work.

weeks ago cooley said RG3 has it. he can read a defense, see the field, he can do it all .. he just needs to trust his receivers and let it go.

should be an interesting listen today and tomorrow.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=over the mountain;1094718]cooley film breakdown should be today and tomorrow at 5 sharp. im not sure if he is doing offense or defense today.

Wish they would move it back to like 5:30 or 6 when i leave work.

weeks ago cooley said RG3 has it. he can read a defense, see the field, he can do it all .. he just needs to trust his receivers and let it go.

should be an interesting listen today and tomorrow.[/quote]

They often put them on the website as a podcast, if you miss them.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094719]They often put them on the website as a podcast, if you miss them.[/quote]

very cool thanks hijinx. i know a caller asked if they put them on podcast but cooley and co. were unsure.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094717]At some point you can't keep turning over the Head Coach job at the rate the Skins do. You all saw with the Zorn fiasco, we got him because our first choices said no thanks. This franchise can no longer get the pick of litter as far as coaches go. If I was a top OC or DC and Washington came at me with an offer, I would pass and stay where I was, because lots of times you get 1 chance at head coach and you don't want it to be at a place with a mess of a Front Office and owner. [B]Since 2000 the Skins are on their 8th Head coach. That is a bad stat. [/B]

I know this from personal experience, if you take a job that has had a extremely high turnover, chances are there is something wrong with the job and not just the people hired to do the job.[/quote]

Great post. Stick with Gruden and build. The grass is always greener somewhere else for the skins. Just stick with a guy and build. (Will Danny EVER get this???)

As for RGIII, my hope is that part of what were seeing is what's called a "U-shaped curve" in learning theory. You see this in lots of situations where people learn a new skill (and he really is learning something new--wc offense is just not what he's had to do): they start pretty well, then totally fall off a cliff (into the U). Then they recover and pick it up. Learning language, how to play an instrument, lots of things show this pattern. He's got to unlearn lots of habits that have won him a Heisman, that he's been using since he's played football. But he may well be going down the U. Will he be given enough time to get back up the other side? Does he have the talent to do it? We'll see. My sincere hope is that the pathetic shit we saw Sunday is part of the learning curve and not the down-hill slide out of the league for RGIII.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/steve-young-coaches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/]Steve Young: Coaches have told me RG3 doesn’t put in the time | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Wow that stings!

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094715]Lol. There are several other nuances to the WCO. I think all of those things are going thru his head and he is trying desperately at the same time to read the defense, make adjustments, etc. All of this is part of being a pro style qb, and it's causing him to try and buy time with extra steps and ball pats while he figures it out. The original discussion was is Griff capable of learning the WCO and than having it translate onto the field. So what do you think it is? A or B? I find it hard to believe he is willfully unable to learn. I find it hard to believe he is dumb as a stump. What I dont find hard to believe is that he cannot convert from a system he excelled in to a system he never played in. It wouldnt be the first time a spread offense QB didnt make it in the NFL. Why is it so hard to believe RG-3 cant either?[/quote]

You are right. RGIII has many other things to focus on.

That is why the 3-step drop part should be effortless. AUTOMATIC. Because you've repped it properly 1,000 times, you can do it in your sleep. You've repped it properly millions of times until it becomes second nature.

It is a very easy skill. I could teach my dog to take three steps on command.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094646][url=http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-rg3-washington-nfl/]Injuries can’t explain away QB Robert Griffin III’s ongoing struggles | The MMQB with Peter King[/url][/quote]

Great post and article. It's frustrating as a fan to never see the play downfield from the camera angle. Does anybody know where to get good views downfield?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Rotten1980;1094731]Great post and article. It's frustrating as a fan to never see the play downfield from the camera angle. Does anybody know where to get good views downfield?[/QUOTE]


Certainly not from RG-3's helmet cam.....

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1094731]Great post and article. It's frustrating as a fan to never see the play downfield from the camera angle. Does anybody know where to get good views downfield?[/quote]

Google "All 22." That should help your quest.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1094723][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/steve-young-coaches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/]Steve Young: Coaches have told me RG3 doesn’t put in the time | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Wow that stings![/quote]

Steve Young gets his information straight from Shanahan's mouth.

Griffin has a lot of issues, working hard has never been one of them.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1094740]Steve Young gets his information straight from Shanahan's mouth.

Griffin has a lot of issues, working hard has never been one of them.[/quote]

Well said sir.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=mooby;1094738]Google "All 22." That should help your quest.[/quote]

Thanks!!!

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

So a friend of mine I grew up with and is also a Skins fan sent me this today. The year I was born,1975, the Redskins Franchise regular season record was 258-258-26. The year we graduated high school, was Gibbs' last year the team was 425-351-26(+74 win difference). They are now 568-553-27(+15). The way things are going some time next year I will turn 40 and for the first time in my life this storied Franchise might have a losing record.