Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=44Deezel;1118932]I'd take those numbers from a guy about to start only his tenth game, especially if we see improvement as the season goes on. They look similar to Andrew Luck's rookie season, and I hear he's pretty good.

4,374 yards 54.1% 23TDs 18TDs[/quote]

I agree I would take those numbers (especially depending on what the running game produces), I just wanted to put out an alternative/more accurate picture of what this year might look like.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell. Here's a look at stats for some other noteworthy QBs their first season starting, and then compared to what Cousins did last season:

Payton Manning (1998): 26 TD, 28 INT, 3739 YRD
Drew Brees (2002): 17 TD, 16 INT, 3284 YRD
Andrew Luck (2012): 23 TD, 18 INT, 4374 YRD
Tom Brady (2001): 18 TD, 12 INT, 2843 YRD

Kirk Cousins (2014, 6 starts*): 10 TD, 9 INT, 1710 YRD
* given how early he entered the JAX game, I have assumed that a start
Kirk Cousins (if adjusted same #s for 16 games): 26.7 TD, 24 INT, 4560 YRD

More TDs than any of the above QBs, although also more INTs than everyone except Payton Manning. And more yards than everyone too.

To be clear, I am not saying Kirk will be on par with any of these folks -- who the heck knows if that is possible? Again, only time will tell. But one cannot look at the numbers and conclude he's just a stop gap to a real franchise QB either. Let's not forget, Brady and Luck (at least) had better starting casts around them than Cousins had here last year too.

Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1118941]Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell.....
Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?[/quote]Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's [I][U][B]3rd[/B][/U][/I]. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1118942]Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's [I][U][B]3rd[/B][/U][/I]. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.[/quote]

He had very little playing time in his first three years, as I am sure you'd agree. I also didn't count the initial seasons of Brees or Brady in the statistics above for the same reason.

With all due respect, for the sake of accuracy, 2012 was Cousin's 1st year, not 2013. I don't think you can count the 2013 season as a "chance" any more than 2012, since Shanahan's decision was purportedly done to protect Griffin in a lost season rather than seeing what he had in Kirk.

Again I focused on last season as the first in which there was an extended look (even though that only amounted to about 1/3 of the season).

And if you don't think Kirk needs a chance this season, what exactly do you have in mind for the QB position?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1118784]ROFL. A little side tracked on this....but since Dianna Russini dropped the RG3 story, I found this fitting. Scott's wife dropping the bomb on her.


:laughing2


[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN6qz0qUkAAKaha.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Since the original tweet thread was eliminated, I had to Google it, but all I can say is WOW. [emoji33]

The 'dog-and-pony' show Crap surrounding the Redskins. [emoji13]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kct1975;1118944]Since the original tweet thread was eliminated, I had to Google it, but all I can say is WOW. [emoji33]

The 'dog-and-pony' show Crap surrounding the Redskins. [emoji13][/quote]

I just had to laugh. One, I like the spirit here. Two, normal people obviously go somewhat insane when they get anywhere near the skins.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;1118926]For fairness reasons, if you are going to extrapolate, you need to take out the best statistical game as well as the worst (the Eagles game), which leaves you with a season of:

4104 yards, 62.675% completion, 24 touchdowns, 20 interceptions.

This looks more like Kirk Cousins to me.[/quote]

I don't know though, the Eagles run that fast paced offense, you can expect Cousins to get plenty of possessions in those games.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1118951]I don't know though, the Eagles run that fast paced offense, you can expect Cousins to get plenty of possessions in those games.[/quote]

The point was more that if you are going to ignore the worst performance and then use the stats to predict over 16 games, you need to ignore the best performance too. Even if you can expect that kind of performance against the Eagles, that very idea shows that you wouldn't expect that performance over a season because no one else plays with that pace. Therefore, the Eagles game would be an outlier and not as useful as a predictive tool.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;1118955]The point was more that if you are going to ignore the worst performance and then use the stats to predict over 16 games, you need to ignore the best performance too. Even if you can expect that kind of performance against the Eagles, that very idea shows that you wouldn't expect that performance over a season because no one else plays with that pace. Therefore, the Eagles game would be an outlier and not as useful as a predictive tool.[/quote]

You don't predict that we will play the Eagles twice this season? Your brain is broken.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1119003]You don't predict that we will play the Eagles twice this season? Your brain is broken.[/quote]

Twice, sure. Three times, not likely. And since you are using that game as one fifth of the games you are basing your 16 game prediction on.....

And why not count the giants game in your prediction? Won't we play them twice?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;1119007]Twice, sure. Three times, not likely. And since you are using that game as one fifth of the games you are basing your 16 game prediction on.....

And why not count the giants game in your prediction? Won't we play them twice?[/quote]

Dude you're completely and utterly missing the point. The point is to illustrate that [B]if[/B] Gruden were able to coach Cousins to avoid the snowball effect of letting a bad play get him down, then what does Cousins have the potential to do? The point was not to actually project Cousins' performance for this upcoming 16-game season.

That Giants game was the one game in particular where he threw an INT and then the wheels absolutely came off. There is nothing particularly scary about the Giants defense, I'm taking it out of the equation to illustrate how Cousins performed in games where he didn't go completely south.

It's not like I'm cherry picking here either. While he had that dynamite game against Philly, he also had a clunker against Arizona where he threw three interceptions.

In the end it's a small sample extrapolated over the course of a season. If you want to include the Giants game in the extrapolation, then that doesn't add any value, all it does is tell us how he performed last year. We know how he performed last year. The point is, with Gruden and Cousins saying there's been a major focus on mental toughness, what might his numbers look like if he's able to improve in that arena? This gives you a feel.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=44Deezel;1118932]I'd take those numbers from a guy about to start only his tenth game, especially if we see improvement as the season goes on. They look similar to Andrew Luck's rookie season, and I hear he's pretty good.

4,374 yards 54.1% 23TDs 18TDs[/quote]

Brett Favre, who I think KC compares to for several reasons, had 24 interceptions in his second year which is pretty close to the same point in each players careers.

3303 yards, 60.9% , 19TD's, 24INTS

Is Cousins the next Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning etc.. ? who knows, but none of those guys had anything to really hang their hats on after 10-16 games either. He has the tools, let him develop and I think he could be great. Just manage expectations. He doesn't need to be any of those guys to be the QB that we need right now..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1118941]Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell. Here's a look at stats for some other noteworthy QBs their first season starting, and then compared to what Cousins did last season:

Payton Manning (1998): 26 TD, 28 INT, 3739 YRD
Drew Brees (2002): 17 TD, 16 INT, 3284 YRD
Andrew Luck (2012): 23 TD, 18 INT, 4374 YRD
Tom Brady (2001): 18 TD, 12 INT, 2843 YRD

Kirk Cousins (2014, 6 starts*): 10 TD, 9 INT, 1710 YRD
* given how early he entered the JAX game, I have assumed that a start
Kirk Cousins (if adjusted same #s for 16 games): 26.7 TD, 24 INT, 4560 YRD

More TDs than any of the above QBs, although also more INTs than everyone except Payton Manning. And more yards than everyone too.

To be clear, I am not saying Kirk will be on par with any of these folks -- who the heck knows if that is possible? Again, only time will tell. But one cannot look at the numbers and conclude he's just a stop gap to a real franchise QB either. Let's not forget, Brady and Luck (at least) had better starting casts around them than Cousins had here last year too.

Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?[/quote]

And Brees followed up 17TDs and 16INTs with 11TDs and 15INTs the next season. THEN, the the year after that he had 27TDs and only 7INTs. By that time, the Chargers had already decided to move on and had drafted Philip Rivers. Cousins may never solve the turnover/confidence problem, but it's way too early to close the book on him. After a full season this year, we should know exactly what we have in him and whether or not it's back to the drawing board as far as the QB position goes.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1118942]Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's [I][U][B]3rd[/B][/U][/I]. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.[/quote]

I don't think any reasonable person would describe 9 total starts as being a real chance.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I think the point that several of us are making is that some of the best QBs in decades had significant INT problems early on -- Brees, Manning, Favre, to name a few. They got over it, but it took time and more starts than Cousins has had (by far). Will Cousins get over it? No one can possibly know that; only time will tell. Give the man time. It isn't as though we have any other real options at this point.

I, for one, am excited to see what the guy can do. There will undoubtedly be growing pains. But I suspect he'll have some games where he lights it up too.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=44Deezel;1119030]I don't think any reasonable person would describe 9 total starts as being a real chance.[/quote]Who said the NFL is reasonable?

You may not see the previous 2 stints as opportunities but had he performed better he would have been given greater opportunity.

That's how the league works. When you get your opportunity, however slight you have to capitalize.

Now Kirk has a 3rd shot to prove he's a starting QB in the NFL.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Not sure if I can agree with the above comment. By that logic, a number of sure HOF QBs would never have gotten off the ground -- Favre, Brees, and Manning had particularly bumpy starts to their careers.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1119044]Not sure if I can agree with the above comment. By that logic, a number of sure HOF QBs would never have gotten off the ground -- Favre, Brees, and Manning had particularly bumpy starts to their careers.[/quote]You gotta be more specific about what you disagree with. Because what you are saying above doesn't follow from my post.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I don't know why some of you have a hard time admitting that Kirk did have previous opportunities?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

why do you get so defensive when someone has a differing opinion? every thread doesn't have to devolve into you telling people that they aren't responding to what you said in the post that they just replied to...

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119043]Who said the NFL is reasonable?

You may not see the previous 2 stints as opportunities but had he performed better he would have been given greater opportunity.

That's how the league works. When you get your opportunity, however slight you have to capitalize.

Now Kirk has a 3rd shot to prove he's a starting QB in the NFL.[/quote]

He is being given greater opportunity. I don't think anyone here believes that his previous starts were honest opportunities. He was forced to prove to everyone that he was the love child of Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh. I think most realize that he was put into a tough situation even if he did struggle. Still, he's handled it well and progressed. Had RG3 done either of those things, he'd be playing. Kirk has made every effort to learn to play the position at the pro level. Time will tell where he ranks. Yesterday was yesterday and today is today. There's no reason he can't be a franchise QB and he can still do that if he throws 20 picks a year. I want to see him lower his interception ratio to 3% but that's not the metric I'm going to judge him by.

Alex Smith threw 6 INTS last year, Drew Brees threw 17..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Whether or not Cousins has gotten a chance before is irrelevant. He's getting another chance now, how many chances he got before makes no difference. The question is whether this leap the coaches say he's made this year translates to the field.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119050]

Alex Smith threw 6 INTS last year, Drew Brees threw 17..[/quote]

I wonder what throwing a pick represents on average in cancelling out yardage.
Pretty sure 2 picks and 300 yards passing gives you a better chance to win than 150 yards and no picks. I do seem to recall Cousins throwing a few picks last year when the game was probably lost anyway, so they did no real damage.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1119052]Whether or not Cousins has gotten a chance before is irrelevant. He's getting another chance now, how many chances he got before makes no difference. The question is whether this leap the coaches say he's made this year translates to the field.[/quote]

Well according to you he's really not capable of improving so we're fucked. lol.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119048]I don't know why some of you have a hard time admitting that Kirk did have previous opportunities?[/quote]

He did. However this is his first real opportunity. Hopefully he's going to get 16 games. I expect some ups and downs the first part of the season, with him coming on the second half.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1119049]why do you get so defensive when someone has a differing opinion? every thread doesn't have to devolve into you telling people that they aren't responding to what you said in the post that they just replied to...[/quote]Maybe I just need to choose who I respond to more carefully then?
You know? Steer clear of those people prone to doing the above?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119050]He is being given greater opportunity. I don't think anyone here believes that his previous starts were honest opportunities. He was forced to prove to everyone that he was the love child of Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh. I think most realize that he was put into a tough situation even if he did struggle. Still, he's handled it well and progressed.[/quote]I don't understand why people are so defensive about Kirk previous chances? There is no need to rationalize and explain. No one is saying that his previous chances were the best opportunities, only that Kirk did have them.

[quote]...There's no reason he can't be a franchise QB and [B][I][U]he can still do that if he throws 20 picks a year[/U][/I][/B]. I want to see him lower his interception ratio to 3% but that's not the metric I'm going to judge him by.[/quote]Time will answer the Kirk question.

And to [I][B]your[/B][/I] bolded statement above sure, Kirk could be one of those QBs that throws a bunch of picks but still remains a solid starter. But in your scenario he's gonna have to balance those picks with stellar production in yards and TDs. Basically he's gonna have to be Drew Brees to throw as many picks as you say and still be solid starter.

I think an easier path to success for Kirk is to lower the INT%, improve on 3rd downs and drop backs lasting longer then 2.5s.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1119063]He did. However this is his first real opportunity. Hopefully he's going to get 16 games. I expect some ups and downs the first part of the season, with him coming on the second half.[/quote]I hope he gets the full 16 game also because it would mean that he's playing well and the team is winning games.

But if he has ups and downs in the first part of the season it will be hard to have Colt on the bench and not play him. So I guess it depends on how bad those hypothetical ups and downs are.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1119053]...I do seem to recall Cousins throwing a few picks last year when the game was probably lost anyway, so they did no real damage.[/quote]Bob, I'm gonna preface my statement for people that pass through the thread so no one else reads this post and gets sensitive/defensive. I am responding directly to Bob's statement above don't take this and jump to any grand assumptions about my opinion of Kirk, which I've already stated.

Okay...I disagree that last year Kirks picks did no real damage. 8 or Kirks 9 picks came in the second half of games. Some of the picks came when the game was in the balance so there was direct damage.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

In case anyone didn't think espn would do this...

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/177355/bears-bills-browns-eagles-giants-likely-destinations-for-robert-griffin-iii[/url]

I don't see giants or bills at all.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Heard he gets along with teammates. And really is a classy team guy. Indeed it is his time!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1119062]Well according to you he's really not capable of improving so we're fucked. lol.[/quote]

When did I say that??

If he improves great, I've said that I have no doubt he'll be among league leaders in INTs but that doesn't mean there would be no improvement, that's how bad the INT rate has been. If he throws 16 picks over 16 games we will be a very mediocre team but that will be progress for us.

Remember we're the Redskins, we stink on ice.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Green Bay boo'ed Aaron Rodgers when he started, after the Favre tenure.. [I][URL="http://archive.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20080808/PKR01/80808121/Favre-fallout-follows-Rodgers"] “When a little kid is yelling swear words at me, that kind of gets to me a little bit,” Rodgers said. “...the f-you and the little kids saying swear words, I don’t understand that.[/URL]”[/I]

Point is, we're in the same spot with the unknown. Our fan base is just mostly apathetic instead of angry. BUT - we have no idea how Cousins is going to do. With new confidence being appointed full-time starter, years of watching tape / correcting probs, ?improved O-line, ?improved defense, ?improved running game, and second year in system -- there's a chance he could surprise. We should just wait to see what happens, I'm hopeful he pleasantly surprises.

And if it doesn't work out -- at the very least, I'm betting he's going to be a top 10 QB on fantasy. INTs don't cost you as much in fantasy and he puts up yards / TDs.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1119053]I wonder what throwing a pick represents on average in cancelling out yardage.
Pretty sure 2 picks and 300 yards passing gives you a better chance to win than 150 yards and no picks. I do seem to recall Cousins throwing a few picks last year when the game was probably lost anyway, so they did no real damage.[/quote]

gregg williams said fumbles are worth more yards than ints (cause the start at the line vs deep downfield), but i don't remember if he put a number on it, i'm sure one exists though.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119066]I don't understand why people are so defensive about Kirk previous chances? There is no need to rationalize and explain. No one is saying that his previous chances were the best opportunities, only that Kirk did have them.

Time will answer the Kirk question.

And to [I][B]your[/B][/I] bolded statement above sure, Kirk could be one of those QBs that throws a bunch of picks but still remains a solid starter. But in your scenario he's gonna have to balance those picks with stellar production in yards and TDs. Basically he's gonna have to be Drew Brees to throw as many picks as you say and still be solid starter.

I think an easier path to success for Kirk is to lower the INT%, improve on 3rd downs and drop backs lasting longer then 2.5s.[/quote]


Last year he was one pace for 31TD/27 INT and 5000 yards. Would that be reasonable for you this year?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1118646]I'm more amazed at the amount of people referring the Man Cave than any of the RG3 craziness going on.

I know there's some craziness going on, but a lot of you seem to be obsessed over it and seem to be biting on the media bait.[/quote]

What is this Man Cave reference? I noticed people kept saying it, I don't know what the hell they are talking about? Sounds like it could be a good thing.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1119109]What is this Man Cave reference? I noticed people kept saying it, I don't know what the hell they are talking about? Sounds like it could be a good thing.[/quote]

it's a new radio show on espn980 in the dmv area. it's hosts are jason reid (a boyz fan) and chris paul (a guy that loves shouting on air for no reason).

it's terrible and really annoying. we used to get mike and mike instead, which was much better, because mike golic really knows what he's talking about (the other mike is annoying though, but at least they aren't talking over each other constantly).

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1118846]If I were controlling Redskins twitter right now, I'd just post this with a /drop mic

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN8bjwyUwAA5Vb6.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

This is just fantastic! Best thing I've seen all day.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1119110]it's a new radio show on espn980 in the dmv area. it's hosts are jason reid (a boyz fan) and chris paul (a guy that loves shouting on air for no reason).

it's terrible and really annoying. we used to get mike and mike instead, which was much better, because mike golic really knows what he's talking about (the other mike is annoying though, but at least they aren't talking over each other constantly).[/quote]

Ahhh, I'm not much for talk radio shows. I still listen to my country CD's. Don't get to here all the junk out there.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Personally I don't like the sound of this...

[b] Report: Redskins to keep RG3 as 2nd-string QB[/b]

[URL]http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/823520][/URL]