Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1224679]Because you're an idiot. Comparing this Redskins team to the 2017 Eagles is nothing short of asinine. The Eagles may have succeeded without Peters but THIS team will not succeed without Trent.

There's a massive difference in the rosters - they had two very good QBs and we're not sure we even have one. They had receiving threats all over the place (who stayed healthy) in Ertz, Jeffrey, Agholor, Trey Burton, etc, we have one proven one who can't stay healthy (Reed). It's a ridiculous comparison that makes you look like you watch football as often as my grandmother.[/quote]

You take thinks so literal and so personal. Ease up. Was not trying to compare. Just making an example. If you are saying that Trent Williams is the cog that makes this team go and if he is not on the field, you might as well mail in the season and get that first pick in the 2020 draft. My point is PROFESSIONAL football teams in the NFL play and win games every week with injuries to key positions such as LT. But you act as if there is no hope if TW is not on the field. I do not agree.

But we'll do it your way.....You have finally convinced me. The Redskins are the dumpster fire you describe.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1224680]You take thinks so literal and so personal. Ease up. Was not trying to compare. Just making an example. If you are saying that Trent Williams is the cog that makes this team go and if he is not on the field, you might as well mail in the season and get that first pick in the 2020 draft. My point is PROFESSIONAL football teams in the NFL play and win games every week with injuries to key positions such as LT. But you act as if there is no hope if TW is not on the field. I do not agree.

But we'll do it your way.....You have finally convinced me. [B]The Redskins are the dumpster fire you describe.[/B][/quote]

Glad we're finally on the same page.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1224679][B]Because you're an idiot.[/B] Comparing this Redskins team to the 2017 Eagles is nothing short of asinine. The Eagles may have succeeded without Peters but THIS team will not succeed without Trent.

There's a massive difference in the rosters - they had two very good QBs and we're not sure we even have one. They had receiving threats all over the place (who stayed healthy) in Ertz, Jeffrey, Agholor, Trey Burton, etc, we have one proven one who can't stay healthy (Reed). It's a ridiculous comparison that makes you look like you watch football as often as my grandmother.[/quote]

Not cool, Homie. Feel free to express your opinions and make your points but treat others with respect.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=los panda;1224686]Not cool, Homie. Feel free to express your opinions and make your points but treat others with respect.[/quote]

Respect is earned, not given.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1224678]Per Trent's Social media, he is having a procedure today as well. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D88gpSrWwAA-hb7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/IMG][/quote]

Hopefully he's ok and its nothing serious.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1224689]Respect is earned, not given.[/quote]

Matty must have made a mistake: "- Perhaps the most important guideline of this forum is this, [B]treat your fellow forum members with the utmost respect at all times[/B]. Personal attacks will not be tolerated." - [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/misc.php?do=cfrules[/url]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Schneed.

Matty, please fix the Forum Rules to reflect Schneed's revelation here, thanks.
-"at all times."
+"once they've earned it."

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=los panda;1224691]Matty must have made a mistake: "- Perhaps the most important guideline of this forum is this, [B]treat your fellow forum members with the utmost respect at all times[/B]. Personal attacks will not be tolerated." - [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/misc.php?do=cfrules[/url]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Schneed.

Matty, please fix the Forum Rules to reflect Schneed's revelation here, thanks.
-"at all times."
+"once they've earned it."[/quote]
[INDENT][IMG]https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/jagoff-3.jpeg[/IMG][/INDENT]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jE9MMDl.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Schneed, can you pass me some of that salt? :)

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224677]And one of the players who we've had health concerns with is.... wait for it...

Trent Williams.

He is 31 and has only been playing 75% of games lately. Due to the kind of injuries he's had and how often he's played hurt, John Clayton said on John Keim's podcast that he would probably have a shorter career than some other LTs. He's not a guy whose likely to be playing football in 5 years. He likely will be done in 2 or maybe 3. We have him under contract for 2 more years.

Its not like the team has done Trent wrong financially. When he signed his current contract, the team made him the highest paid offensive lineman in the NFL. His contract is still among the top in the league. And again, he has not one, but two more years, on it. If Trent didn't want to play out that contract, he should have negotiated one with a shorter term.

Also, we don't need Trent "back in the fold" before training camp. He doesn't need the practice. His holdout will not extend into the regular season. This is really about the money and he won't want to miss the game checks. So this is not the "crisis" many are making it out to be.

The team may decided to restructure his current deal a bit to guarantee a little bit more of the money on it. Maybe give him an extra $500,000 bonus or something. But it would be downright foolish of them to give him any deal that would guarantee any new money beyond the next two years. All that would do is create a situation where we have a lot of money allocated to a player who will likely be missing more and more time as his health and performance declines.[/quote]

Before you let a player like Trent go, you have a replacement, especially with a Rookie QB and an unknown right beside him at LG. He doesn't need to practice, but you got a terrible distraction as well as top leader on Offense away. You don't need to do a big extension, but you could do alittle more to make the man happy.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1224689]Respect is earned, not given.[/quote]

I've got thick skin. Being called an idiot rolls off the sleeve.

But why bring your grandmother into it? Cold.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1224679]Because you're an idiot. Comparing this Redskins team to the 2017 Eagles is nothing short of asinine. The Eagles may have succeeded without Peters but THIS team will not succeed without Trent.

There's a massive difference in the rosters - they had two very good QBs and we're not sure we even have one. They had receiving threats all over the place (who stayed healthy) in Ertz, Jeffrey, Agholor, Trey Burton, etc, we have one proven one who can't stay healthy (Reed). It's a ridiculous comparison that makes you look like you watch football as often as my [B]grandmother[/B].[/quote]

HEY! She's a nice lady

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1224696]Before you let a player like Trent go, you have a replacement, especially with a Rookie QB and an unknown right beside him at LG. He doesn't need to practice, but you got a terrible distraction as well as top leader on Offense away. You don't need to do a big extension, but you could do alittle more to make the man happy.[/quote]

I think a lot of people are expecting some type of deal to make TW happy, perhaps restructuring his deal with more guaranteed money, without having a full blown extension.

I just hope TW doesn't go full Kirk-Cousins-crazy and start making crazy money demands because he doesn't want to play here anymore.

The team is in a terrible situation though having to appease TW, while trying to renew Schreff.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=los panda;1224686]Not cool, Homie. Feel free to express your opinions and make your points but treat others with respect.[/QUOTE]



The bad news is there is an internet tough guy who thinks he knows everything, and obviously has some sort of deep rooted mommy or daddy issues that need to be ironed out on this board. The good news is alot of other boards have multiple d-bags like that. Yay us.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1224670]On a team that doesn't have a single star player, yes, you need your HOF LT to have a chance at succeeding. There's no Zeke, there's no Julio Jones, there's no Von Miller, no Luke Keuchley.



You're being kind of dense. Trent makes a major difference to this team, the kind of difference that could take them from 8-8 to 6-10.[/QUOTE]If we NEED him to be 8-8, it's a lost season and all decisions should be geared toward success in 2020.

How many games do you think he will play in the next two years?

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1224703]The bad news is there is an internet tough guy who thinks he knows everything, and obviously has some sort of deep rooted mommy or daddy issues that need to be ironed out on this board. The good news is alot of other boards have multiple d-bags like that. Yay us.[/QUOTE]Great point.

One is too many but way better than two.

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1224702]I think a lot of people are expecting some type of deal to make TW happy, perhaps restructuring his deal with more guaranteed money, without having a full blown extension.

I just hope TW doesn't go full Kirk-Cousins-crazy and start making crazy money demands because he doesn't want to play here anymore.

The team is in a terrible situation though having to appease TW, while trying to renew Schreff.[/quote]

TW can’t afford it too after missing the first game check. But while yes we could sit and done nothing...I’d rather have TW all in and leading the offense, by adding another year to his deal and some guarantee money the next couple years. I don’t think it has to be a huge deal...but TW has to realize one way or the other, he will be a skin this year

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1224679]Because you're an idiot. Comparing this Redskins team to the 2017 Eagles is nothing short of asinine. The Eagles may have succeeded without Peters but THIS team will not succeed without Trent.



There's a massive difference in the rosters - they had two very good QBs and we're not sure we even have one. They had receiving threats all over the place (who stayed healthy) in Ertz, Jeffrey, Agholor, Trey Burton, etc, we have one proven one who can't stay healthy (Reed). It's a ridiculous comparison that makes you look like you watch football as often as my grandmother.[/QUOTE]Hmm.

Teams with deep, talented rosters are able to deal with injuries better than teams without a deep talented roster.

We don't have deep talent so we can't handle injuries.

So we MUST sign an aging, injury prone LT.

Interesting.

You're really short on details but it's easier to leave them out.

What is the max offer you make in terms of AAV and number of years? What are the limits to your "Must sign" position?

What is your expectation as to the number of games he plays in the next two years?


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1224708]Hmm.

Teams with deep, talented rosters are able to deal with injuries better than teams without a deep talented roster.

We don't have deep talent so we can't handle injuries.

So we MUST sign an aging, injury prone LT.

Interesting.

You're really short on details but it's easier to leave them out.

What is the max offer you make in terms of AAV and number of years? What are the limits to your "Must sign" position?

What is your expectation as to the number of games he plays in the next two years?


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]

I didn’t take a ‘must sign’ position. You’re reading something in my posts that’s just not there.

But to answer your question, I think it would be reasonable to add a year to his deal and boost the AAV on those three years in total to match the AAV of the highest paid T in the league right now.

If he’s looking for five years then I’d have to consider what we’d get in a trade. I think our roster needs more and I wouldn’t destroy a disproportionate sum of cap space on a guy that will prevent us from filling out some other spots.

But I don’t anticipate it would come to that. I think they could either stare Trent down and force him to blink, or they could offer him a reasonable increase and I think he’d take it. I don’t believe JLC when he says Trent has vowed not to play for the Skins, because who believes JLC at this point in his career.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1224670]On a team that doesn't have a single star player, yes, you need your HOF LT to have a chance at succeeding. There's no Zeke, there's no Julio Jones, there's no Von Miller, no Luke Keuchley.



You're being kind of dense. Trent makes a major difference to this team, the kind of difference that could take them from 8-8 to 6-10.[/QUOTE]I thought your use of the word "need" in this post meant you were advocating must sign.

As far as availability, how would you calculate Trent's over the next two years when making an offer?


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I don't think they should give him shit, even though he has leverage. He signed a deal and a deal is a deal. Either you play for the Redskins or sit on your couch and miss your 13 million dollar salary.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=punch it in;1224703]The bad news is there is an internet tough guy who thinks he knows everything, and obviously has some sort of deep rooted mommy or daddy issues that need to be ironed out on this board. The good news is alot of other boards have multiple d-bags like that. Yay us.[/quote]

Obviously something is going on, and I feel for him, but trashing other people isn't going to help.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1224711]I don't think they should give him shit, even though he has leverage. He signed a deal and a deal is a deal. Either you play for the Redskins or sit on your couch and miss your 13 million dollar salary.[/quote]

I would take this approach as well.

Steelers got a 3rd and a 5th for AB. I would have sacrificed those picks to spite AB and send a message to all other players on the team that I do not negotiate with terrorists.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=los panda;1224714]I would take this approach as well.

Steelers got a 3rd and a 5th for AB. I would have sacrificed those picks to spite AB and send a message to all other players on the team that I do not negotiate with [B]terrorists[/B].[/quote]

Now he's a [U]terrorist[/U]? That's going too far, don't you think? It's just business in the NFL.

BTW, I would have taken the picks for AB because it's not personal - it's just business. Besides, "sending a message" to other players doesn't work because holding out is only an effective strategy for stars.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224262][B]If they can make the numbers work I'm all for paying him.[/B] He's a top LT. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron. But if there's a legit trade offer you'd have to consider it.[/quote]

OK, I finally voted "pay him", primarily because I wanted to be able to view the poll numbers. Very interesting. There were more "trade him" responses than I expected.

I pretty much agree with the bolded part above as long as it does not involve an extension of his current contract. His durability has waned in recent years and I'd hate to see the Skins carry significant salary cap dollars in future years for a player who is unable to perform.

I admit that I don't know how that can be done within the rules of the salary cap. Perhaps a bonus spread over the final two years of his contract. You know, for "exemplary career service" or something? I dunno. There must be some type of work-around.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Why are the only options pay or trade?

He's under contract two more years. "Do nothing" is a perfectly viable option. He's a 31 year old, injury-prone guy who NFL talking heads have said only has a few years left (due to his injury history). This is all about money for Trent - he's not going to lose nearly 1M per week by not playing. He will want those game checks, so he's going to show up, as do the majority of players who hold out in the offseason.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1224722]Why are the only options pay or trade?



He's under contract two more years. "Do nothing" is a perfectly viable option. He's a 31 year old, injury-prone guy who NFL talking heads have said only has a few years left (due to his injury history). This is all about money for Trent - he's not going to lose nearly 1M per week by not playing. He will want those game checks, so he's going to show up, as do the majority of players who hold out in the offseason.[/QUOTE]I think the best option is it depends.

How much is a team willing to trade?

How much is Trent asking for to make things "right"?

What are the odds he plays without doing anything?

Without knowing those things, it's just an emotional response.

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1224716]Now he's a [U]terrorist[/U]? That's going too far, don't you think? It's just business in the NFL.

BTW, I would have taken the picks for AB because it's not personal - it's just business. Besides, "sending a message" to other players doesn't work because holding out is only an effective strategy for stars.[/quote]

Yes, if I was seriously calling T Willy a terrorist, that would be going too far.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=los panda;1224727]Yes, if I was seriously calling T Willy a terrorist, that would be going too far.[/QUOTE]



He might be a terrorist. Maybe Matty can hack his inter-web and find out.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1224725]I think the best option is it depends.

How much is a team willing to trade?

How much is Trent asking for to make things "right"?

What are the odds he plays without doing anything?

Without knowing those things, it's just an emotional response.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]

Given his age and injury history, I cant imagine any team would offer us enough to make it worth trading him. We actually need him, so trading him is almost a no-go for me. I don't care how much he is asking for either.

Again, given his age and injury history, combined with the facts we're already spending the most in the NFL on the offensive line, that we need to extend Scherff, and that we're stuck in 20M in dead cap for an injured alex smith each of the next two years.... why on earth would we commit even more money to Trent? It would be incredibly foolish - especially given he's got two more years left on his contract - a contract which, by the way, was the highest in the NFL when it was signed just 3 years ago.

As far as the odds Trent plays if we don't do anything, i'd put them at 100%. This is all about money. Ultimately, I think the Skins would be smart to call his bluff and, at most, guarantee a little bit more money on his contract next year and throw a few extra bucks at him to make him feel like got something.

I know we all love trent for what he's done for this team over the past decade. He's played hurt almost every game. But sadly, that's part of WHY we shouldn't give him more money now. He might only be 31, but his body's a lot more beaten up than other guys his age. I imagine he's retired by 34-35.

At this point, Trent is not a player the team can build around. He's more of a stop-gap until we can find a long-term replacement.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I agree. That's why I didn't vote. Don't see the need to pay more now or panic and trade him.[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224722]Why are the only options pay or trade?

He's under contract two more years. "Do nothing" is a perfectly viable option. He's a 31 year old, injury-prone guy who NFL talking heads have said only has a few years left (due to his injury history). This is all about money for Trent - he's not going to lose nearly 1M per week by not playing. He will want those game checks, so he's going to show up, as do the majority of players who hold out in the offseason.[/quote]

I agree. That's why I haven't voted. Don't see the need to pay him more now or panic and trade him. I think this is being blown out of proportion.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

As has been mentioned, with his history of missing a 1/4 of the games and not getting any younger, extending him with more guaranteed money would not be a smart move. That is a cap disaster waiting to happen. Also when he signed his contract he was the highest paid offensive tackle. Right now the $16 million dollar tackle is 4 years younger than Trent and doesn't miss games.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Number44;1224732]I agree. That's why I didn't vote. Don't see the need to pay more now or panic and trade him.

I agree. That's why I haven't voted. Don't see the need to pay him more now or panic and trade him. I think this is being blown out of proportion.[/quote]

I say trade him right now! We should take the picks and move on.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Amazing people are willing to throw Silverback off the team. FFS, has anyone watched the last couple years?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1224751]Amazing people are willing to throw Silverback off the team. FFS, has anyone watched the last couple years?[/quote]

Nobody wants to throw him off the team. Obviously he doesn't want to be here. According to reports he vowed not to play for us anymore. If that is the case we need to be compensated for him.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=httr198020;1224748]I say trade him right now! We should take the picks and move on.[/QUOTE]What picks are you thinking we would get?

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=httr198020;1224752]Nobody wants to throw him off the team. Obviously he doesn't want to be here. According to reports he vowed not to play for us anymore. If that is the case we need to be compensated for him.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm sure he wants to walk away from Millions.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1224751]Amazing people are willing to throw Silverback off the team. FFS, has anyone watched the last couple years?[/QUOTE]He's my favorite Redskin.

I felt like I was watching greatness when he wasn't injured.

I felt like I was watching an unbelievably gritty performance when he was hurt and still competent.

All that being said, a lot of specifics still need to come out before knowing what the right move is.

What if all he wants is to guarantee more money in the last year?

Or, if he really vowed never to play for us again.

The situation is clear as mud right now.

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1224755]What picks are you thinking we would get?

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If he's as elite as you people claim would should be able to get a first rounder.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=httr198020;1224759]If he's as elite as you people claim would should be able to get a first rounder.[/QUOTE]He can be elite and effective for our team but not be worth a first round pick to other teams, because they aren't going to get him on a 5 year rookie deal.

If you are saying trade him to get picks you should at least say what a realistic valid offer is

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