Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1245729]Agreed. Anyone who thinks we should draft Chase no matter what is an idiot. We are two months away from the draft. The skins should not be "locked in" on any one player or any one approach (trade up/down or stay put).

In a vacuum, the team could have Tua graded higher. We don't know their board. Even THEY don't know their board yet. And even if Chase Young ends up as their #1 rated player, there is a clear scenario (with Detroit) where they trade down to #3 and still get him. The team reportedly loves Okudah. If they could trade back a few spots, get Okudah and a haul of picks to address other needs with elite talent, they'd have to consider it. And there is a possibility Miami or someone else makes them an offer they simply cannot refuse.

Bottom line is that, unlike a lot of narrow-minded fans, the skins are being incredibly smart. They are doing everything they can to drive up the value of the #2 overall pick. Rivera is going to ensure that, by the time the team is on the clock, they will be able to compare the best player on their board (whoever that is) with the best trade offer possible. And then act accordingly. Bravo to Rivera and Kyle Smith. It is so refreshing to have competent decision makers running the show.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you've said here, with the exception of there being a "clear scenario with Detroit" to a trade where we still get Young. There is a possibility, but it is remote and rather murky, rather than clear. The only conceivable reason that Detroit would do that would be that they were convinced that if they didn't, the Redskins would surely trade with someone else who would draft the guy Detroit wants. The only reason the Redskins would do that would be if they are absolutely sure that Detroit would definitely not take Young. Both of these points are major stumbling blocks to such a trade. Even if the Redskins were ready to trade with, say, Miami, what are the chances that Detroit would both have the draft capital and be willing to trade it to move up one spot? From the Redskins perspective, Miami would surely offer much more than Detroit would and in any case it would be hard to know for certain that Detroit wouldn't hoodwink us out of Young. I think a trade down remains a real possibility for the Redskins, I just don't agree with you that Detroit would be our likely trading partner.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[QUOTE=Number44;1245760]Agree with most of what you've said here, with the exception of there being a "clear scenario with Detroit" to a trade where we still get Young. There is a possibility, but it is remote and rather murky, rather than clear. The only conceivable reason that Detroit would do that would be that they were convinced that if they didn't, the Redskins would surely trade with someone else who would draft the guy Detroit wants. The only reason the Redskins would do that would be if they are absolutely sure that Detroit would definitely not take Young. Both of these points are major stumbling blocks to such a trade. Even if the Redskins were ready to trade with, say, Miami, what are the chances that Detroit would both have the draft capital and be willing to trade it to move up one spot? From the Redskins perspective, Miami would surely offer much more than Detroit would and in any case it would be hard to know for certain that Detroit wouldn't hoodwink us out of Young. I think a trade down remains a real possibility for the Redskins, I just don't agree with you that Detroit would be our likely trading partner.[/QUOTE]



That specific trade scenario would only be if Detroit wanted Tua themselves. Which would make sense for them. They still have Stafford and Tua could use a year to recover (if he needs it) and learn the NFL.

Ultimately, if Tua mania takes over, the skins are making it clear to the league that any team that wants to make sure they get him has to trade with us at 2, not Detroit at 3. And if Detroit loves Tua and wants to secure him, then they can’t just assume we’ll take young and sit at 3 to get him, as another team could have traded up with us for Tua.


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1245786]That specific trade scenario would only be if Detroit wanted Tua themselves. Which would make sense for them. They still have Stafford and Tua could use a year to recover (if he needs it) and learn the NFL.

Ultimately, if Tua mania takes over, the skins are making it clear to the league that any team that wants to make sure they get him has to trade with us at 2, not Detroit at 3. And if Detroit loves Tua and wants to secure him, then they can’t just assume we’ll take young and sit at 3 to get him, as another team could have traded up with us for Tua.


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Again, we would have to be absolutely certain that Detroit wouldn't take Young. If we swapped firsts and picked up a second and Detroit ran the card with Young's name on it up to the podium 2 seconds later, we would look awfully foolish. Not seeing it. If Miami offers us a king's ransom of a deal that we can't refuse, would Detroit's offer of a second rounder tip the scales in their favor over Miami? Again, not seeing it. As I said before, your scenario is remotely possible. It just isn't very likely.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1245701]I would like to see all the mock drafts graded after the fact. I wonder what the furthest anyone has gotten 100% correct? I bet even getting the top 10 correct is rare.[/quote]

I think Sunnyside had posted something about the accuracy of some major mock players and how accurate they were. It is not very high.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Say Miami offers you #5 and #18 for the 2nd pick.

Lions take Chase but you can get Simmons and Jeudy in the first rd. 2 day 1 starters right away. Would u do it?

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245795]Say Miami offers you #5 and #18 for the 2nd pick.

Lions take Chase but you can get Simmons and Jeudy in the first rd. 2 day 1 starters right away. Would u do it?[/quote]

Not even close.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I want a fast, talented, nasty defense. Chase Young pushes you there.

Chase Young and Montez Sweat growing together wrecking shop gets you there. A great pass rush is the best passing defense.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245795]Say Miami offers you #5 and #18 for the 2nd pick.

Lions take Chase but you can get Simmons and Jeudy in the first rd. 2 day 1 starters right away. Would u do it?[/quote]

In a heartbeat

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=ArizonaSkinFan;1245805]In a heartbeat[/quote]

I would as well

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245795]Say Miami offers you #5 and #18 for the 2nd pick.

Lions take Chase but you can get Simmons and Jeudy in the first rd. 2 day 1 starters right away. Would u do it?[/quote]

You cray to even ask it. Pass rush is everything. And with this draft strong WRs can be had in the 3rd round.

Jeudy looks like he'll be a player, but this still isn't nearly enough.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I just don’t buy the Detroit trade idea. They know we are taking Chase Young, no matter how much smoke has been generated. If the Lions want Tua, they just wait until after we draft Young.

I know many want us to be offered a monster, RG3-type deal. But everyone knows we want Chase Young. The real trades may start with Detroit, not with us.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill.


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1245808]You cray to even ask it. Pass rush is everything. And with this draft strong WRs can be had in the 3rd round.

Jeudy looks like he'll be a player, but this still isn't nearly enough.[/quote]

cray cray lol We are taking Young most likely but its fun to discuss until it comes draft time

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245795]Say Miami offers you #5 and #18 for the 2nd pick.

Lions take Chase but you can get Simmons and Jeudy in the first rd. 2 day 1 starters right away. Would u do it?[/quote]

I'd want more picks, another 1st and 2nd at least

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1245818]I'd want more picks, another 1st and 2nd at least[/quote]

Agreed, if Miami is offering all of their 1st round picks this year or two 1st rounders and their #1 next year, then we should def talk.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Miami won't offer that much and they really shouldn't. Maybe 5,18 and a 3rd would do

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Anything less than all 3 Dolphins 1st rounders or I don't even think about it.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245821]Miami won't offer that much and they really shouldn't. Maybe 5,18 and a 3rd would do[/quote]

They shouldn't, but if they want an almost 100% guarantee they may need to move up.

I mean look how the Bears moved up one spot to get Trubisky, when they got him.

Until teams make their picks, there is always a risk that a team may move ahead of Miami to grab Tua (such as the Raiders).

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Imagine the hype and trade value of the no. 2 overall if Tua didnt get hurt. I am tremendously happy with the way things currently stand w the no. 2 overall and a "generational" pass rusher sits at 2.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=SunnySide;1245830]Imagine the hype and trade value of the no. 2 overall if Tua didnt get hurt. I am tremendously happy with the way things currently stand w the no. 2 overall and a "generational" pass rusher sits at 2.[/quote]

If Tua was not hurt, we'd be talking about how much are people willing to move up to get Burrow.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=ruhskins;1245833]if tua was not hurt, we'd be talking about how much are people willing to move up to get burrow.[/quote]

facts

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Warthog;1245810]I just don’t buy the Detroit trade idea. They know we are taking Chase Young, no matter how much smoke has been generated. If the Lions want Tua, they just wait until after we draft Young.

I know many want us to be offered a monster, RG3-type deal. But everyone knows we want Chase Young. The real trades may start with Detroit, not with us.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill.


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You're probably right. But ...

What if the Raiders make a huge trade with Detroit to move into the 3rd spot, positioning themselves for a Tua grab?

Would that make Miami say "Fuck it. Pull the trigger with Washington"? Maybe ...

I think that's the only way we have a SHOT at a mega-deal with someone.

I'm pretty excited about having Chase Young though. The idea of him on that DLine for years to come is intoxicating.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I know it's all just speculation until draft day, but i can't see a big trade coming in our direction because nobody is that desperate for the #2 pick.

Cincy are taking Burrow; their one big need is a young franchise QB to replace Dalton. They can take Tua or Burrow, though with their immediate need they'll take Burrow. They have a need and no incentive to trade down.
We want Young right now or a boatload of picks. I just don't see a Herschel Walker type trade coming our way. Taking either QB (if Cincy did surprise everyone by drafting Young) doesn't make us immediately better because we have bigger needs, so we'd likely only trade if that happened and I don't see Cindy doing that. Barring a minor miracle we take Young.
Detroit are in prime trade position assuming the above. They don't need a new QB yet and have other needs. Okudah makes sense but if they move down a couple of slots they could still get him and/or have picks left over from a Miami trade to fill other needs too. And Patricia comes from the Belichick school so I can't see him getting anything other than value from his picks or any trade. Unless he learned absolutely nothing. 😁
Giants are a little intriguing as if Tua is still available they might trade down, but i suspect they just take BPA, which could be Simmons after a good combine.
If Miami haven't traded up at this point they likely have Tua land in their lap anyway and still have all those picks for other needs. I back this scenario because they are in a 2 yr rebuild and can let Tua come on while Fitzmagic finished his career off. They also have too many other needs to waste picks on a trade they likely don't need to make.
Raiders moving up? Nope, I can't see Gruden or Mayock doing that given that QB isn't their big need either. They were bitten by the Brown scenario so they are going to be a bit cautious this year; no big splash.
Nobody else really has the draft capital to move into the top 5, especially once Burrow, Tua and Young have gone taking away the motive. I can see Miami swapping picks with Detroit to guarantee Tua, but the other scenarios look unlikely.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1245877]I know it's all just speculation until draft day, but i can't see a big trade coming in our direction because nobody is that desperate for the #2 pick.

Cincy are taking Burrow; their one big need is a young franchise QB to replace Dalton. They can take Tua or Burrow, though with their immediate need they'll take Burrow. They have a need and no incentive to trade down.
We want Young right now or a boatload of picks. I just don't see a Herschel Walker type trade coming our way. Taking either QB (if Cincy did surprise everyone by drafting Young) doesn't make us immediately better because we have bigger needs, so we'd likely only trade if that happened and I don't see Cindy doing that. Barring a minor miracle we take Young.
Detroit are in prime trade position assuming the above. They don't need a new QB yet and have other needs. Okudah makes sense but if they move down a couple of slots they could still get him and/or have picks left over from a Miami trade to fill other needs too. And Patricia comes from the Belichick school so I can't see him getting anything other than value from his picks or any trade. Unless he learned absolutely nothing. 😁
Giants are a little intriguing as if Tua is still available they might trade down, but i suspect they just take BPA, which could be Simmons after a good combine.
If Miami haven't traded up at this point they likely have Tua land in their lap anyway and still have all those picks for other needs. I back this scenario because they are in a 2 yr rebuild and can let Tua come on while Fitzmagic finished his career off. They also have too many other needs to waste picks on a trade they likely don't need to make.
Raiders moving up? Nope, I can't see Gruden or Mayock doing that given that QB isn't their big need either. They were bitten by the Brown scenario so they are going to be a bit cautious this year; no big splash.
Nobody else really has the draft capital to move into the top 5, especially once Burrow, Tua and Young have gone taking away the motive. I can see Miami swapping picks with Detroit to guarantee Tua, but the other scenarios look unlikely.[/quote]

I could see San Diego or Carolina trading up with either the Lions or the Giants. Neither of those teams has the draft capital to move up to #2, IMO, but I think one of them would definitely try to trade up to #3 or 4 to get in front of Miami. It would be risky for Miami to stand pat and hope Tua drops to them at #5, IMO.

Truth is, while #2 would guarantee Miami Tua (or Burrow), the cost in draft capital to get up to #2 is much, much higher than #3 or #4, since Young is clearly superior to the group of guys available at picks 3 thru 7. Detroit or New York could easily trade down to get an additional 2nd round pick and still draft the same player they were looking at with their original pick.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Number44;1245886]I could see [B]San Diego[/B] or Carolina trading up with either the Lions or the Giants. Neither of those teams has the draft capital to move up to #2, IMO, but I think one of them would definitely try to trade up to #3 or 4 to get in front of Miami. It would be risky for Miami to stand pat and hope Tua drops to them at #5, IMO.

Truth is, while #2 would guarantee Miami Tua (or Burrow), the cost in draft capital to get up to #2 is much, much higher than #3 or #4, since Young is clearly superior to the group of guys available at picks 3 thru 7. Detroit or New York could easily trade down to get an additional 2nd round pick and still draft the same player they were looking at with their original pick.[/quote]

LOL. I wonder how long I'm going to keep saying San Diego for the Chargers.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1245877]I know it's all just speculation until draft day, but i can't see a big trade coming in our direction because nobody is that desperate for the #2 pick.

Cincy are taking Burrow; their one big need is a young franchise QB to replace Dalton. They can take Tua or Burrow, though with their immediate need they'll take Burrow. They have a need and no incentive to trade down.
We want Young right now or a boatload of picks. I just don't see a Herschel Walker type trade coming our way. Taking either QB (if Cincy did surprise everyone by drafting Young) doesn't make us immediately better because we have bigger needs, so we'd likely only trade if that happened and I don't see Cindy doing that. Barring a minor miracle we take Young.
Detroit are in prime trade position assuming the above. They don't need a new QB yet and have other needs. Okudah makes sense but if they move down a couple of slots they could still get him and/or have picks left over from a Miami trade to fill other needs too. And Patricia comes from the Belichick school so I can't see him getting anything other than value from his picks or any trade. Unless he learned absolutely nothing. 😁
Giants are a little intriguing as if Tua is still available they might trade down, but i suspect they just take BPA, which could be Simmons after a good combine.
If Miami haven't traded up at this point they likely have Tua land in their lap anyway and still have all those picks for other needs. I back this scenario because they are in a 2 yr rebuild and can let Tua come on while Fitzmagic finished his career off. They also have too many other needs to waste picks on a trade they likely don't need to make.
Raiders moving up? Nope, I can't see Gruden or Mayock doing that given that QB isn't their big need either. They were bitten by the Brown scenario so they are going to be a bit cautious this year; no big splash.
Nobody else really has the draft capital to move into the top 5, especially once Burrow, Tua and Young have gone taking away the motive. I can see Miami swapping picks with Detroit to guarantee Tua, but the other scenarios look unlikely.[/quote]

The Raiders are definitely in the QB market, since Gruden is not sold on Carr, and they have the ammo to move up. The only way I don't see them moving up for a QB is if they get a pricey free agent QB (i.e. Brady, Rivers, Teddy B.).

The Jags also have two first round picks and are in need of a QB. They may have even more ammo if they trade Yannick Ngakoue for a first rounder to another team.

Both the Raiders or the Jags could offer the Redskins their two first rounders and a 2021 first rounder (a total of three 1st round picks), among other picks to move ahead of Miami.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[url]https://finheaven.com/threads/tua-tagovailoa-super-thread.358488/[/url]

^^^ 225 pages of dolphins fans wanting Tua and discussing trading up w us or Det. Pretty intelligent discussion, but perhaps a good bit undervaluing the trade ammo needed to move up.

That fanbase is ready to go all in for Tua. jerseys printed and ready for shipping.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1245904]The Raiders are definitely in the QB market, since Gruden is not sold on Carr, and they have the ammo to move up. The only way I don't see them moving up for a QB is if they get a pricey free agent QB (i.e. Brady, Rivers, Teddy B.).

The Jags also have two first round picks and are in need of a QB. They may have even more ammo if they trade Yannick Ngakoue for a first rounder to another team.

Both the Raiders or the Jags could offer the Redskins their two first rounders and a 2021 first rounder (a total of three 1st round picks), among other picks to move ahead of Miami.[/quote]
I forgot they both have the capital but I still believe they would trade with Detroit not us.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

This is the way I see it. I would rather take the best player in the draft than trade down and then later watch that same best player in the draft prove he was the best for years.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Miami has a boatload of picks, if I was them I'd stay put take Simmons / BPA at #5 and then take Jordan Love at 18. Still get a promising QB prospect

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Miami can sit tight at 5 and get Tua in all likelihood


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1245985]Miami can sit tight at 5 and get Tua in all likelihood


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Agree unless someone trades up.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1245985]Miami can sit tight at 5 and get Tua in all likelihood


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I doubt this. I think if the Giants were on the clock and Tua is still there the Chargers would trade up, and the Giants would be happy to do it, since they could probably get the same player at 6 that they would have at 4.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

RR said the other day that "not having a 2nd rd pick is a burden" That tells u how serious he is about his picks. It wouldn't surprise me if they moved down

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1245995]RR said the other day that "not having a 2nd rd pick is a burden" That tells u how serious he is about his picks. It wouldn't surprise me if they moved down[/quote]

Yep, from the top of the 3rd round. That's what I would do if offered a reasonable deal.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1245995]RR said the other day that "not having a 2nd rd pick is a burden" That tells u how serious he is about his picks. It wouldn't surprise me if they moved down[/QUOTE]
Again I think this is just blowing smoke to see what trade offers it drums up. I doubt he'd trade out of #2 JUST to get more picks. A bird in the hand...

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[QUOTE=Number44;1245992]I doubt this. I think if the Giants were on the clock and Tua is still there the Chargers would trade up, and the Giants would be happy to do it, since they could probably get the same player at 6 that they would have at 4.[/QUOTE]



I tend to think the Tua hype is a little overblown and given the injury history teams won’t want to sell the farm to get him


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

If I was Cinci I'd take CY and draft a QB in the 2nd rd.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1246003]I tend to think the Tua hype is a little overblown and given the injury history teams won’t want to sell the farm to get him


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For the Chargers to move up two spots, it wouldn't cost them the farm. I think if Tua was still there and the Giants were on the clock, a trade would be the most likely scenario.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1246004]If I was Cinci I'd take CY and draft a QB in the 2nd rd.[/quote]

I would too. Don't tell them that. Or they could trade back into the 1st if they wanted after getting CY.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1246004]If I was Cinci I'd take CY and draft a QB in the 2nd rd.[/quote]

You have the no. 1 overall, there is a consensus best QB who put up monster stats in a pro style offense against SEC defenses and who also seems NFL ready .... malpractice to get cute imo.

I think you keep drafting a QB until you get it right.

Stars lined up right for Cincy, just like it looks like the stars lined up right for us.