Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1275088]Now that Watson has given his list of 2 teams he will go to, it’s time to shift the focus on Stafford or Matt Ryan. Of course I’d take Stafford over Ryan but even if we did trade for Ryan, it’s similar to Alex’s situation 2 years ago. Older QB that has 2-3 years left. Ryan is clearly the better passer tho[/quote]

The Watson sweepstakes is still wide open, did you not watch the harden trade me drama? Every day that past he had a new team he was ok with going too.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1275089]The Watson sweepstakes is still wide open, did you not watch the harden trade me drama? Every day that past he had a new team he was ok with going too.[/QUOTE]


He said Brooklyn was his #1 all along tho and he got what he wanted. We also don’t have the ammo to compete with the Jets. They’ll offer Darnold, and their draft basically. The Texans would be fools to turn it down

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Well it looks like Stafford is definitely on the block. But with all the teams interested in him, I think it will take at least 2 firsts at a minimum.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Ohioskins;1275098]Well it looks like Stafford is definitely on the block. But with all the teams interested in him, I think it will take at least 2 firsts at a minimum.[/QUOTE]What teams are interested him? I know there are other teams in the qb market but I haven't really seen teams attached to him like Watson.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

SF, NE and Colts at a minimum.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1275101]SF, NE and Colts at a minimum.[/quote]

Colts feels like a good fit for him.

Patriots are a wash. Hard to predict what BB will do.

I feel like Shanahan likes a more mobile kind of QB.

WFT and Indy feel like strong options imo.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Number44;1275081]You are overstating Stafford's value by a lot, IMO. And surely Stafford wouldn't be option 1 if Watson could be had for the same price. I happen to think that Stafford may well be our #1 target, but not at the price you suggest. If the Lions refuse to trade him for less than that, he will remain a Lion.[/QUOTE]


You may be right, but the competition to get Stafford will be fierce. In a less competitive environment Stafford might go for what Bruce Allen traded for Alex Smith. But I think his value is going up quickly.

A team can’t win in the NFL these days without an excellent QB who is highly accurate And/or is very mobile. The teams who are in the late playoffs have outstanding QB play. The WFT need a quality, franchise QB to go further than where they are - a team with a very good, top 5 defense.

Detroit is putting Stafford on the blocks today. Let’s see what he goes for in the end. I’d say that the WFT may be in the running for Stafford, but certainly Rivera is going to have go “ all in” to get him. Maybe my idea IS TOO High - I really hope so! But to get a top QB with 5-7 years to go - will it be worth it?

I’d take Watson over Stafford, of course, but Watson may not come on the block this off-season.


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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

The Patriots have to be the prohibitive favorite. It would clearly be Stanford’s first choice and Matt Patricia, his last HC, is the OC.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1275104]Colts feels like a good fit for him.



Patriots are a wash. Hard to predict what BB will do.



I feel like Shanahan likes a more mobile kind of QB.



WFT and Indy feel like strong options imo.[/QUOTE]I think Indy and WFT make the most sense, but i doubt Detroit gets a "crazy" trade package. Currently I think our 1st and later 3rd round picks plus something in next year's draft, maybe the 2nd.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1275110]The Patriots have to be the prohibitive favorite. It would clearly be Stanford’s first choice and Matt Patricia, his last HC, is the OC.[/QUOTE]That assumes Stafford liked Patricia's offense. I don't think that is a given.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1275110]The Patriots have to be the prohibitive favorite. It would clearly be Stanford’s first choice and Matt Patricia, his last HC, is the OC.[/quote]

Not sure about that. From all reports everyone in Detroit hated Matt Patricia from day one.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1275114]That assumes Stafford liked Patricia's offense. I don't think that is a given.

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True - but he played very well in patricias offense. I guess i feel the Patriots is always the most attractive destination for any player.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1275116]True - but he played very well in patricias offense. I guess i feel the Patriots is always the most attractive destination for any player.[/QUOTE]I get that, and I imagine BB might be feeling put off by Brady's success, might drive him to make a crazy bid.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[url]https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article248718210.html[/url]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1275087]He’s taken his team to the playoffs and won a game atleast[/quote]

Winning one playoff game constitutes "winning," eh?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1275099]What teams are interested him? I know there are other teams in the qb market but I haven't really seen teams attached to him like Watson.

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[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/matthew-stafford-top-trade-destinations-five-teams-most-likely-to-complete-a-deal-with-the-lions/amp/[/url]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=PorkSkins;1275129][url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/matthew-stafford-top-trade-destinations-five-teams-most-likely-to-complete-a-deal-with-the-lions/amp/[/url][/QUOTE]I can't see SF or Denver as a fit for Stafford at all. Indy and New England I could see as being in the mix.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1275130]I can't see SF or Denver as a fit for Stafford at all. Indy and New England I could see as being in the mix.

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That's all the sports talking heads are talking about here in Denver - how to land Stafford or Watson.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1275128]Winning one playoff game constitutes "winning," eh?[/quote]

In Detroit winning a playoff game is like us winning the Superbowl. We're talking Detroit, a team that rivals Cleveland for failure historically. We're talking a franchise that forced Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson to quit playing early because they knew they were wasting their talents playing for that team. Don't sell Stafford short. For another analogy, Ovi was always known as a playoff loser, until the moment he wasn't. Lack of past success is not always an indicator of future failure.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=mooby;1275138]In Detroit winning a playoff game is like us winning the Superbowl. We're talking Detroit, a team that rivals Cleveland for failure historically. We're talking a franchise that forced Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson to quit playing early because they knew they were wasting their talents playing for that team. Don't sell Stafford short. For another analogy, Ovi was always known as a playoff loser, until the moment he wasn't. Lack of past success is not always an indicator of future failure.[/quote]

My response was to skinsfaninok stating Stafford has never won anything and Watson has won something. Watson has only won one playoff game. So, I was asking does winning one playoff game constitutes winning.

I'd definitely take either one, and if I had one choice it'd be Watson. But Watson will likely cost a ransom, and I doubt he's seriously on our radar. Based on decent reports, he isn't on our list of suitors.

Stafford as a consolation, so to speak, would be more than fine.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1275130]I can't see SF or Denver as a fit for Stafford at all. Indy and New England I could see as being in the mix.

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I don’t see Néw England as an option with Patricia back. Don’t think he sat well in Detroit.

I believe Indy will be our biggest competition.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=SkinzWin;1275146]I don’t see Néw England as an option with Patricia back. Don’t think he sat well in Detroit.



I believe Indy will be our biggest competition.[/QUOTE]I agree about Patricia, but I do think BB knows how to get vets to new england. Seems like they always managed to get "that guy". And Stafford would be an ideal qb for Bill.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

If we want Stafford they’ll go get him.

Pats never trade picks for players , they won’t do it.

Colts maybe but they also like brissett a lot and he’s way cheaper.

SF and Washington are the top 2 IMO

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1275149]If we want Stafford they’ll go get him.

Pats never trade picks for players , they won’t do it.

Colts maybe but they also like brissett a lot and he’s way cheaper.

SF and Washington are the top 2 IMO[/quote]

Colts run Stanford's style of offense. Brisket has shown that he’s burnt. Doesn’t have what it takes.

SF doesn’t run the style of offense Stafford excels in. It’s going to be Indy or us. And there’s always a dark horse team no one expects.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

JMO we need a QB that has an arm first and is mobile as well.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Rivera hasn’t gone after older FA since taking over the WFT. But Stafford is an immediate and big upgrade in a position of absolute need. The WFT is not going to be a contender, even with a Top 5 defense, until the QB issue is solved.

Watson may not be on the market this season. Even if he is, the price for him will be Absolutely HUGE. The WFT isn’t just ONE QB away from being elite. It needs OL, WR, TE, LB, CB,S PLUS a franchise QB. Watson will take 3 Firsts and maybe one of the teams best players (like Sweat, Payne or Allen) to get him.

Stafford is the centerpiece of a five year plan to build around. He will cost:

1. Definitely: A first in 2021.
2. Something more: a THIRD in 2022 ?
3. Something more: a fifth in 2021?

There are a couple teams that may want Stafford as much as we do. Colts - yes. Patriots - maybe. But the Pats have never had to give up draft picks for a player. They’re used to players coming TO THEM, to get a ring. But Belicheck now knows what happens when you don’t have the GOAT QB on your team. So he may adapt and bid for Stafford.

I think the new WFT GM and VP of Personnel were brought in JUST TO HANDLE THIS SORT OF NEGOTIATION/ Competition. Get Stafford for the lowest price. Bring in an elite WR - again without breaking the bank. Another FA position - bring in an excellent LB. Those three positions give you immediate returns and big upgrades over what they have now.

Kyle Smith was very good at finding good starters out of the dregs of the draft - third and below in the draft and UDFA. But just as important is making sure the top draft picks are ALSO WINNERS.

I think that if the team gets Stafford, the draft will go for the OL. They need to build the left side of the OL And DEPTH. So two draft picks at least.


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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsmaRp-XIAcsNSJ?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1275382][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsmaRp-XIAcsNSJ?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG][/quote]

Might as well stop reading after Dak lol

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=MTK;1275383]Might as well stop reading after Dak lol[/quote]

I think Rodgers is going to be super interesting. Unlike Houston, GB already has their QB of the future. So they may not be pressed to get a top 10 pick in a potential trade. It will still cost to get him, but I'll be curious to see how bad the situation gets there, in terms of Rodgers not being happy.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Schefty says he is taking the over (over/under - 18) with regard to how many teams will be changing QBs this off-season. That is A LOT of competition for the eligible free agents, and any QBs that may be available for trade.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks[/url]

Maybe this has been posted somewhere already, but it's a good breakdown of the WFT QB situation including salary cap implications, and potential free agent/trade targets.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=jamf;1273799]I would like to avoid another short term, overpriced vet QB.
Let Heinike/Allen/Rookie QB battle it out.
There are too many holes to fill on this team to overpay a QB.[/quote]

Amen. Let's be realistic about where we're at. We are NOWHERE close to being a contender. We have a solid foundation, but are not close enough to contending that you make short-term decisions that harm long term to exploit your "window."

We went 7-9. We beat ONE winning team, Pittsburgh, who folded in playoffs and was trounced by most everyone last third of season. We beat up on a Dallas team without Dak for two gravy wins. That makes everyone all the sudden think we just need a QB and we're a perennial playoff team? We were soundly beaten by every winning team we played except one, even with all-world QB play by Heinicke.

A first and a second or third, or two firsts, is two long term starters. A LT, a CB, a WR, a MLB. That is the LONG term view. You don't trade all that draft capital for a QB who is 33 and may play 3-4 years most. You draft and develop a QB. Every year, there are players rated high and bust, and history suggests about half the 1st round QBs do. Every year there are players that slip under the radar, drafted later who turn out studs.

Let's assume top-4 QBs off board when we draft. You draft BPA with 1st round pick a LT a CB a WR, one of the expensive positions so get 5 years on the cheap at high leverage position, you perhaps reach with 2nd or 3rd to get a QB you like in draft, and maybe spend a later round pick on another QB. You cut everyone but Heinicke, the only QB on roster who has ever looked like a franchise QB. Love Smith, but he's damaged goods, and never won anything even in his prime. Not that I think Hein is surefire, but you bring him in at least as 3rd QB with a fair chance to compete. Not absurd to think he becomes our serviceable bridge starter while we draft or develop other QBs. Or maybe he becomes next Brees. He's earned chance to compete, for sure.

You don't trade up high into 1st round. You maybe trade up into lower first or high second if QB you like is there. Smith certainly had QBs year we drafted Haskins he liked better, what if we drafted them? Think he doesn't see at least one QB in 2nd or 3rd round this year? Or next year? Or year after? If we are spending draft capital, it should be for a 10+ year starter, even if it takes several drafts, not a stopgap. We aren't in a SB window, and the delusion that we are will prevent us from ever getting to one if we squander our picks. Enough of the Koolaid, Homers.

A FA QB would be acceptable, but teams generally don't let good ones go, and Smith can almost certainly find someone in early rounds outside first as good as most FA QBs, for a tenth the price, with the money instead used to lock up homegrown talent. That being said, nothing wrong with a FA QB, Heinicke, Allen, drafted QB, compete, hopefully Allen cut keep 3.

All this talk of multiple 1st round picks for one guy on the backend of his career is crazy. Right now the backbone of our team, for years to come, is our studs picked with 1st round picks. And people want to hand those away for some retread QB? No way. What we want is to look up in 2 more years and see a MLB, LT, WR, CB, FS, all doing well on rookie deals. THEN it is realistic to talk about as contenders. Look how stacked KC and BUCs are. Talent everywhere, Bucs especially. We have one area of our team as talented as theirs, DL, and nothing else even in the ballpark.

I completely think Smith could find a franchise QB outside of top-4. Mahomes was rated a 2nd or 3rd round pick by many. Rodgers, Jackson, Bridgewater, Watson, Carr, Brees, Wilson, Roethlisraper, and of course Brady were all drafted outside top 10 and often late in draft. Yeah its easier with a top-5 pick, but a great GM can find a franchise QB without one.

We traded 2 seconds to get Montez, late in 1st round. You want to talk about SANE trade-ups, giving up next years second and this years to move up early in first round for a QB we like to be sure we get him, while also getting 5th year on rookie deal, is at least sensible. Better to have potential franchise QB with draft capital then a retread. It is entirely possible the guy Smith likes will easily be available in 2nd round. Imagine a draft where where our top 4 picks, in order, are: franchise LT, QB, #2 WR, CB. Filling all the most expensive and high-leverage positions. Not easy to do, but Smith could. I think they may spend one of those picks on MLB, but MLB so much cheaper than WR, CB, LT, could be good FA acquisition. We are DYING for a true thumper MLB and roving FS. No idea where Foster best fit, him coming back could be pipe dream, but man. . .

In the final analysis, virtually every major QB decision made last decade+ was made by THE DAN, not the scouting professionals. McNabb was. RGIII was. Smith was. Only remotely successful QB decision was made by non-DAN, Cousins. Our scouts can find a franchise QB if you just let them, even if it takes a couple drafts of rolling the dice. You find your guy, more of a pocket QB, you protect him, and then you flourish next 10-20 years. Completely different than squandering draft capital on a guy that might retire in 2-3 years in Stafford. It may take 2-3 years of drafting to find the guy. So be it. You have to take the hard road, and again find a 2-decade starter. Let's suppose it takes us a 1st, a 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th over 3 years of drafting but we eventually find our franchise QB through 2038. That is WAY better than spending the same amount of capital on a retread. And to those who say it is possible to draft and draft and draft and never find your QB, BS. A great GM can find a franchise QB. That's his job. If he can't, he shouldn't be GM. Which is why scuttling Smith for the retread GMs may be atrociously costly. I remember in HS basketball, coach said, if you can't get open, someone on the bench can. Same thing GMs, you can't scout and find a franchise QB, there are replacements for you that can. A bright shining example of why GM should be above coach in hierarchy, by the way, as coaches will often want to take the quick and easy route and trade for QB.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

It’s all great till the 19th pick we don’t give up for Stafford fails to produce or not worth the pick ... not every kid coming out of college makes a impact in the nfl.. at least with Stafford we know what we are getting ..Let’s not pretend the pick will be a winner ...

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=rocnrik;1275538]It’s all great till the 19th pick we don’t give up for Stafford fails to produce or not worth the pick ... not every kid coming out of college makes a impact in the nfl.. at least with Stafford we know what we are getting ..Let’s not pretend the pick will be a winner ...[/quote]

Absolutely. Could end up with a Josh Doctson at #19...:banghead:

The #19 pick for Stafford would be a no-brainer.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1275540]Absolutely. Could end up with a Josh Doctson at #19...:banghead:

The #19 pick for Stafford would be a no-brainer.[/quote]

agree but stafford eats up a lot cap space too.

i don't want any of our current QB's starting next year, bad QB play hinders everyone's development.

I also agree with the folks that are saying we are not just a QB away from being a contender.

I think if you make a play on stafford you got go out and get some more weapons specifically TE and WR.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1275383]Might as well stop reading after Dak lol[/QUOTE]



Idk man I think Alex Smith might put us over the top.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=mredskins;1275541]agree but stafford eats up a lot cap space too.

i don't want any of our current QB's starting next year, bad QB play hinders everyone's development.

I also agree with the folks that are saying we are not just a QB away from being a contender.

I think if you make a play on stafford you got go out and get some more weapons specifically TE and WR.[/quote]

Good QBs, if you're lucky to have one, always eat up a lot of cap space. That's the nature of the position. However, I'm not trading for him unless there's an agreement to extend his contract for at least 4, preferably 5 years.

This team is a QB away from being a contender in the NFC East, but not beyond that. Still a lot of holes to fill, and current rostered players to bring back.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

If 32 year old Matthew Stafford went into the draft THIS YEAR with the other 2021 rookies, would he last until pick 19 for us? And if he did, would you take him there?

I think he's worth the 1st. If it takes an additional 3rd i'm not very upset either considering we have 2.

And in terms of his salary cap hit, his contract is more than manageable. In fact I'd almost call it a bargain in 2021. If he extends/resigns the way Smith did then it's a different story. But his current contract is extremely team friendly for a QB of his stature.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sevier2;1275550]If 32 year old Matthew Stafford went into the draft THIS YEAR with the other 2021 rookies, would he last until pick 19 for us? And if he did, would you take him there?

I think he's worth the 1st. If it takes an additional 3rd i'm not very upset either considering we have 2.

And in terms of his salary cap hit, his contract is more than manageable. In fact I'd almost call it a bargain in 2021. If he extends/resigns the way Smith did then it's a different story. But his current contract is extremely team friendly for a QB of his stature.[/quote]

Proven top 15 QB or a Rookie Mac Jones? It's a no brainer

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Getting Stafford and mortgaging the farm aren't necessarily the same things. A 1st and a 3rd this year is about my limit. Maybe one of our 7th rounders this year or like a 5th next year is definitely my limit. I don't think that trade is mortgaging the farm.