Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=GMScud;781535]No bueno for Obamacare....

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/us-usa-healthcare-ruling-idUSTRE70U6RY20110131?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews]Judge rules healthcare reform unconstitutional | Reuters[/url][/quote]

That the plaintiffs would receive a favorable decision in this particular suit was expected, but the scope of the decision--invalidation of the entire act--was not. In the other decision to go against the government (the Virginia case), the judge (Henry Hudson, Michale Vick's judge) did not invalidate the entire act. The number of federal court decisions finding the Affordable Care Act consitutional still outnumbers the decisions finding it unconstitutional, but there is no doubt that the Florida case had generated the most attention. Still, all of these federal district court decisions are just the opening acts to the ultimate S.Ct. review. I think it's going to be a very close call up their, but I doubt that the court will invalidate the entire law.

Re: Obama Care
 

Why force people to buy health ins. Why not just allow health providers the right to refuse service if someone does not have coverage or money to pay their bill.

[QUOTE=firstdown;781587]Why force people to buy health ins. Why not just allow health providers the right to refuse service if someone does not have coverage or money to pay their bill.[/QUOTE]

Well, I would imagine that the whole point is that those who support this measure would respond that healthcare shouldn't be refused to anyone who needs it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;781587]Why force people to buy health ins. Why not just allow health providers the right to refuse service if someone does not have coverage or money to pay their bill.[/quote]
so you would like the poor to not be able to get treatments? i guess all you insurance guys stick together. i say we make car insurance optional. you down with that?

Re: Obama Care
 

They probably won't review the case until next year anyway.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;781619]so you would like the poor to not be able to get treatments? i guess all you insurance guys stick together. i say we make car insurance optional. you down with that?[/quote]

When I say give health providers the right to refuse services I have assumed that there is something in place for the poor. Then the people who choose not to buy coverage either have to show they can pay for services or they are out of luck.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;781587][B]Why force people to buy health ins[/B]. Why not just allow health providers the right to refuse service if someone does not have coverage or money to pay their bill.[/quote]


Why not force people to buy guns too:

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/01/sd-lawmakers-propose-mandating-gun-ownership-make-point-health-law/"]South Dakota Lawmakers Propose Mandating Gun Ownership -- to Make Point About Health Law - FoxNews.com[/URL]

oh wait:

[URL="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1818862/posts"]Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets[/URL]

Re: Obama Care
 

nothing like silly laws that waste our money to try and " prove a point" why not work on some of the real issues like unemployment?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;781721]nothing like silly laws that waste our money to try and " prove a point" why not work on some of the real issues like unemployment?[/quote]


I thought the 1 trillion stimulas was to fix the unemployment issue. Talking about waisted money.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;781673]When I say give health providers the right to refuse services I have assumed that there is something in place for the poor. Then the people who choose not to buy coverage either have to show they can pay for services or they are out of luck.[/quote]

IMO this bill is to provide an alternative more affordable health care option for a segment of US citizens who fall btw the crack of not being poor enough to qualify for free health care (medicaid, SS) but dont make enough money to pay the expensive priv health care options.

The poor and lazy who live off welfare or SS get medicaid free of charge.

If you make over 40k you can probably afford 200-300 a month in priv health care or your employment offers a pay-in program.

If you make 20-30k a year, you probably dont have health ins.

Im sorry, but priv health ins groups prices are out of control, they know it and the gov't knows it.

$165 a month to have a 10k deductible is rediculus. I have to incur and pay 10k in medical expenses in a year before my health ins will kick in a penny is a joke.

There is something in place for the poor who sit around and collect gov't checks. The problem is there isnt anything in place for the poor who actually work for a living. Your better off quiting your day job and living off the gov't w/ free health care, food stamps and section 8 vs working, making 9.50 an hour and hoping you dont suffer an accidental injury that would leave a 20k hospital debt hanging over you.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;781884]IMO this bill is to provide an alternative more affordable health care option for a segment of US citizens who fall btw the crack of not being poor enough to qualify for free health care (medicaid, SS) but dont make enough money to pay the expensive priv health care options.

The poor and lazy who live off welfare or SS get medicaid free of charge.

If you make over 40k you can probably afford 200-300 a month in priv health care or your employment offers a pay-in program.

If you make 20-30k a year, you probably dont have health ins.

Im sorry, but priv health ins groups prices are out of control, they know it and the gov't knows it.

$165 a month to have a 10k deductible is rediculus. I have to incur and pay 10k in medical expenses in a year before my health ins will kick in a penny is a joke.

There is something in place for the poor who sit around and collect gov't checks. The problem is there isnt anything in place for the poor who actually work for a living. Your better off quiting your day job and living off the gov't w/ free health care, food stamps and section 8 vs working, making 9.50 an hour and hoping you don't suffer an accidental injury that would leave a 20k hospital debt hanging over you.[/quote]

Sorry this bill is the first step for the government to take over health care and lead us to a one payer system. Obama has said so himself many times but he tries to ignore his past statements. By the way if you live in the US and are over like 25 and cannot make more then 9.50 an hour then your doing something wrong or need to move. I'm talking normal times not now so much. My buddy with a high school degree has lost 3 jobs in the past 3 years and all but one paid over $20 per hour. He really does not have any marketable skills either. You also need to shop your ins.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;781736]I thought the 1 trillion stimulas was to fix the unemployment issue. Talking about waisted money.[/quote]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but more jobs were created in 2010 alone than the entire 8 years under Bush. Got that. Google and find me one economist that says the stimulus was wasted money.

[url=http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its-official-more-private-sector-jobs-created-in-2010-than-during-entire-bush-year]It’s Official: More Private Sector Jobs Created In 2010 Than During Entire Bush Years | NEWS JUNKIE POST[/url]

/[U][COLOR=#670100]http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its-official-more-private-sector-jobs-created-in-2010-than-during-entire-bush-years/[/COLOR][/U]


In terms of unemployment, it's much more complicated than pumping momey into the economy, but I think the president IS doing everything that's in his control to bring unemployment down.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;781900]Google and find me one economist that says the stimulus was wasted money.[/quote]Didn't we already do this?

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575325233508651458.html]Allan Meltzer: Why Obamanomics Has Failed - WSJ.com[/url]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/38032-expose-on-the-tea-party-architects-2.html#post734267[/URL]

[quote]In terms of unemployment, it's much more complicated than pumping momey into the economy, but I think the president IS doing everything that's in his control to bring unemployment down.[/quote]Absolutely not. The President's policies are stifling business expansion and job creation.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;781900]I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but more jobs were created in 2010 alone than the entire 8 years under Bush. Got that. Google and find me one economist that says the stimulus was wasted money.

[url=http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its-official-more-private-sector-jobs-created-in-2010-than-during-entire-bush-year]It’s Official: More Private Sector Jobs Created In 2010 Than During Entire Bush Years | NEWS JUNKIE POST[/url]

/[U][COLOR=#670100]http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its-official-more-private-sector-jobs-created-in-2010-than-during-entire-bush-years/[/COLOR][/U]


In terms of unemployment, it's much more complicated than pumping momey into the economy, but I think the president IS doing everything that's in his control to bring unemployment down.[/quote]

Got to say that's a good way to skew numbers: Compare a full 8 years worth of recession and recoveries with a specific year of data(not only that but only a part of the years data as they narrowed it to private sector job growth.

Note 1, I am not debating Bush's economic plans cuz they aren't worthy of debate.

Note 2, in the table they provided 4 months (the last 4) were negative, and 5 were positive.

Not a very substantive use of stats. Seemed like a simple biased report to tell people who believe what they want to hear.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;781909]Didn't we already do this?

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575325233508651458.html"]Allan Meltzer: Why Obamanomics Has Failed - WSJ.com[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/38032-expose-on-the-tea-party-architects-2.html#post734267[/URL]

Absolutely not. The President's policies are stifling business expansion and job creation.[/quote]

Hmm...okay, you got me. Find me another one, besides Reagan's boy Meltzer. It just seems non-sensical to me for somone of Meltzer's stature to declare with absolute authority that President Obama's policies have failed after just 18 months in office. And to compare Reagan's first 18 months to Obama's is being completely dishonest and ignoring what each president inherited. We just climbed out of the worst post war recession in history, due to in no small part the success of TARP ( which included baling out Detroit, which worked) and the stimulus program.

With all due respect for Ronald Reagan but there is more and more data to suggest that trickle down economics, on the whole, failed.

But since Meltzer penned this wonderful non-partisan Op for WSJ, the econoomy logged it's biggest Q4 GDP growth in years, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for another two years, and the president has issued an executive order for a federal review of regulations that may be too onerous on big business, I just don't know how you could conclude anything an absolute failure or success in the first 18 months of a presidency.

But the main culprit behind why companies aren't hiring is because, well, they aren't hiring. They're hoarding trillions of dollars in cash, as you know. And the bottom line is companies are doing more with less these days. Corporate profits are strong, the DOW has crossed 12,000, and the outlook for economic expanision in 2011 is more upbeat.

I'm betting if Meltzer was writing that article right now, his tone would be much different.