Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then [I]someone else[/I] told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603847]No, that Cerrato did. Cerrato said Snyder was giving him two years in his current role. After that, he'd be removed from his current position (and in my opinion, move to some other, non-operational aspect of the franchise).[/quote]

Yeah, well I mean I've been saying for a while now that within the next couple of years VC will probably move to a more "executive" position (even more so than now). Although that could always change of course, depending on the coaching situation.

But anyway, I know that Jay Glazer (or maybe it was Peter King?) said that Cerrato told him that he and the new head coach would have two years to turn things around or they'd be gone...but that's also the way Cerrato tends to talk sometimes. I don't believe he ever actually said Snyder said they would be fired.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=SmootSmack;603853]Yeah, well I mean I've been saying for a while now that within the next couple of years VC will probably move to a more "executive" position (even more so than now). Although that could always change of course, depending on the coaching situation.

But anyway, I know that Jay Glazer (or maybe it was Peter King?) said that Cerrato told him that he and the new head coach would have two years to turn things around or they'd be gone...but that's also the way Cerrato tends to talk sometimes. I don't believe he ever actually said Snyder said they would be fired.[/quote]

Well, ultimately, I don't think Cerrato, himself, is a problem. I think he's a good talent evaluator. The problem is, Snyder's got his hand in things and Cerrato either lacks the balls or the authority to veto Snyder on certain personnel moves.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

I just don't get though why we didn't hire shanahan as an "offensive consultant" all he would have to do is look over zorns shoulder on the sidelines, and he would already have a head start knowing who to keep and getting used to the players. This way its guranteed that we win the shanahan sweepstakes.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

Wow. I love BighairedAristocrat's points.

Interesting views.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603855]Well, ultimately, I don't think Cerrato, himself, is a problem. I think he's a good talent evaluator. The problem is, Snyder's got his hand in things and Cerrato either lacks the balls or the authority to veto Snyder on certain personnel moves.[/quote]

You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis) but he also brought in some players who can contribute for the next 4-5 years in Kelly, Kareem Moore, Chris Horton, Chad Rinehart, Justin Tryon, Brian Orapko, Jeremy Jarmon, Marko Mitchell, Kevin Barnes..

I don't think he's very good at assembling a team or self scouting and making decisions based on need. I also think he over inflates the value of some players and over drafts based on that (Davis, Rinehart, Tryon, possibly Barnes). That doesn't mean they won't be good and productive players, but maybe were picked ahead of other players that may have been more productive.

I think he had a 3 year plan to fix problem areas from the Gibbs era (receivers year one, defensive line year two, offensive line year three). I don't think he thought the OL would deteriorate as rapidly as they did because it was (at the end of '07) the best performing unit out of the three mentioned. If he's in place to handle the '10 draft I'd expect him to draft 3 linemen, a RB and a LB (based on what we do in FA) which would then round out his plan.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;603856]I just don't get though why we didn't hire shanahan as an "offensive consultant" all he would have to do is look over zorns shoulder on the sidelines, and he would already have a head start knowing who to keep and getting used to the players. This way its guranteed that we win the shanahan sweepstakes.[/quote]

Shanahan or Holmgren wouldn't come in at this point with Zorn still in place as the HC, that'd be really difficult because they're an obvious replacement. Zorn would probably quit if one of them were brought in above him because it would completely undermine him in the organization and locker room.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=Paintrain;603867]You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis) [/quote]

I don't think Fred is/was a mistake. He will eventually produce, I'm waiting for him Kelly and Thomas to also get of their butts. I think they will very soon.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=Paintrain;603867]You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis) but he also brought in some players who can contribute for the next 4-5 years in Kelly, Kareem Moore, Chris Horton, Chad Rinehart, Justin Tryon, Brian Orapko, Jeremy Jarmon, Marko Mitchell, Kevin Barnes..

I don't think he's very good at assembling a team or self scouting and making decisions based on need. I also think he over inflates the value of some players and over drafts based on that (Davis, Rinehart, Tryon, possibly Barnes). That doesn't mean they won't be good and productive players, but maybe were picked ahead of other players that may have been more productive.

I think he had a 3 year plan to fix problem areas from the Gibbs era (receivers year one, defensive line year two, offensive line year three). I don't think he thought the OL would deteriorate as rapidly as they did because it was (at the end of '07) the best performing unit out of the three mentioned. If he's in place to handle the '10 draft I'd expect him to draft 3 linemen, a RB and a LB (based on what we do in FA) which would then round out his plan.[/quote]

I don't think Durant Brooks was a bad decision at the time - it just didnt work out. I don't think Fred Davis is a bust, but I agree it was the dumbest move he's made in the draft in the past 2 years. As far as free agency goes, I think thats where Snyder generally gets more involved, so what we see has less to do with Cerrato and more to do with Snyder. The problem is, Cerrato will never have the kind of control he needs to judge him as a true GM in Washington.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603851]Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then [I]someone else[/I] told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.[/quote]

Nothing negative about it, but this thread is in offseason form. LOL.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603851]Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then [I]someone else[/I] told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.[/quote]

Possibility 3) Cerrato told Zorn that having a quality control guy on offense would be a good idea. He then asked Zorn who a good choice for the job would be. Zorn said, "Sherman Lewis."

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;603872]I don't think Fred is/was a mistake. He will eventually produce, I'm waiting for him Kelly and Thomas to also get of their butts. I think they will very soon.[/quote]

I think regardless of his potential production, here's why I think he was a mistake. What's the best case scenario for his production with a healthy Cooley, 20 catches, 3 TD? That's not 2nd round production. The reason he was a mistake was where he was drafted in relation to other needs we had. We had a pro bowl TE already. I didn't have a problem with drafting Kelly and Thomas in the 2nd, but with that extra 2nd round pick a TE was an extreme luxury for a team with major needs at the time.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603851]Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then [I]someone else[/I] told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.[/quote]

1) Of course he(Lewis) will. It will look like either he(Lewis) fixed the problems that Zorn could not fix or he(Lewis) could not fix what mess Zorn created. In either case Zorn has had 1 full yr to get his feet wet, get to know the talent on the team, know how best to use them, and call the right plays. Now is that enough time ...obviously not for a 1st yr ever HC.

2) If it was Cerrato's idea and his game plan I guarentee you he would have had enough information as to why he did it and what Lewis was doing and how he could help the team. Someone who gets on and muddles his way through a press confrence and can't answer those types of questions certainly didn't come up with the plan and quite possibly doesn't like the plan but is doing it cause his boss wants it that way.

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;603637]Why can't this "smell" of trying to give Zorn every chance to succeed. If you want to prep for another coach, then you probably bring (my first thought) Holmgren in. And he starts making plans. You want to give Zorn a shot, you bring in a well respected, but out of the business name.
Maybe it's no more than an experienced advisor to guide Zorn in the transition to a SB caliber HC.[/quote]

I dont think unemployed coaches (like holmgren) would feel comfortable talking about taking over another HC's job while that HC (JZ) is still employed with the team.

Heard an analyst say that if the skins really want to get one of the big coaches for next season they will have to be one of the first teams approaching the big 3 (holmgren, cowher, shannahan). Which means they shouldn't let the decision to fire JZ linger into the offseason.

obviously we are speculating here but imo all signs point to JZ being fired in a few weeks, with sherm taking on the playcalling duties and blache being the HC. this was not a possibility before the hiring of sherm since blache has never called plays. the DS probably wanted to fire zorn after the lions game, vinny and others told him they dont have anyone to call plays, the DS says find a guy who can so when i get my next gut instinct to fire JZ i can.

if zorn gets fired in the next few weeks, its just going to be another typical DS move . . . go i f'in hate what our franchise has turned into.

The Examiner's John Keim caught up with a current NFL GM, who said this:

"My gut feeling is that they will let him come in and be here two to three weeks and if things don't get better, he now knows the offense and the talent and he becomes the playcaller and they name Blache the head coach -- if things don't change."

Or Jason La Canfora, who went on the NFL Network and said this:

"Talking to some people there at Redskins Park, there's no denying that yesterday they had no one on staff who was capable of running that offense on an interim basis if Jim Zorn were to be relieved of his duties mid-season. Now they do. Lewis can be there, study with them, be in the meeting rooms, all that stuff. And if they make a move, that's someone who has called plays and has been a coordinator at the NFL level in the West Coast system."

go skins i suppose . . .

Re: Redskins hire offensive consultant
 

[quote=Paintrain;603881]I think regardless of his potential production, here's why I think he was a mistake. What's the best case scenario for his production with a healthy Cooley, 20 catches, 3 TD? That's not 2nd round production. The reason he was a mistake was where he was drafted in relation to other needs we had. We had a pro bowl TE already. I didn't have a problem with drafting Kelly and Thomas in the 2nd, but with that extra 2nd round pick a TE was an extreme luxury for a team with major needs at the time.[/quote]

True. Maybe in Vinny's eyes he was the best player available at that time.