Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=Son Of Man;664601]Thank you! Ben Rothlisberger and Aaron Rogers seem to be able to elevate their play with sub-par lines...why do we excuse JC's mediocrity?[/quote]

Yep, and good QBs make their O lines look better. Matt Cassell was sacked relentlessly behind the same line Brady camps out behind all the time. He's a threat to beat you deep, Cassell was not. AND the O line was fine for the first 4-5 games last year. BUT, this has been re-hashed a zillion times.:bdh:

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=44Deezel;664609]Yep, and good QBs make their O lines look better. Matt Cassell was sacked relentlessly behind the same line Brady camps out behind all the time. He's a threat to beat you deep, Cassell was not. AND the [B]O line was fine for the first 4-5 games last year.[/B] BUT, this has been re-hashed a zillion times.:bdh:[/quote]You keep saying this, but I do not think any line that allows as much pressure as Detroit got and as Tampa Bay got to be called "fine." If that performance was fine, then I'm fine with 4-12. Because that, to me, is overachieving.

The line was toast as soon as the first guy (Thomas) went down. All the Samuels injury did was allow reality to set in.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[B]2009 Sack Rates[/B]

Jason Campbell: 7.8%, 550 dropbacks
Aaron Rodgers: 8.5%, 591 dropbacks
Ben Roethlisberger: 9.0%, 556 dropbacks

Who made what look good again?

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

who's going to pay a 1st and 3rd for campbell he wasn't even worht the 1st yo uused nthe first place... he's an ok QB could be good i na few years maybe i nthe right system but no way worth a 1st and 3rd right now.... maybe a 3rd only.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

Anyone else see that after a talk with Shanahan, Jason Campbell feels he has a future in Washington? ( i assume future means more than just next season)

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/18/jason-campbell-had-real-positive-talk-with-mike-shanahan/]Jason Campbell had "real positive" talk with Mike Shanahan | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;664614]who's going to pay a 1st and 3rd for campbell he wasn't even worht the 1st yo uused nthe first place... he's an ok QB could be good i na few years maybe i nthe right system but no way worth a 1st and 3rd right now.... maybe a 3rd only.[/quote]

In a few years? Dude he is 28 years old.. How much more time does this guy need? I like JC but his time is up in D.C, and yes I agree with you but Campbell is worth atleast a 2nd round pick.. Anyone who takes a beaten like JC did last year deserves a good pick lol.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=GTripp0012;664610]You keep saying this, but I do not think any line that allows as much pressure as Detroit got and as Tampa Bay got to be called "fine." If that performance was fine, then I'm fine with 4-12. Because that, to me, is overachieving.

The line was toast as soon as the first guy (Thomas) went down. All the Samuels injury did was allow reality to set in.[/quote]

And I'll keep saying it. We must have been watching different games. I remember checking his sack totals after 4 games and he was in the bottom third of all starting QBs. The O line wasn't a mess until AFTER Samuels and Randy Thomas went down, AND then Campbell actually played better. He was absolutely NOT running for his life against the likes of the Lions, Bucs, Rams and friggin Chefs. BUT who's to say it wasn't Zorn's fault. The O definitely seemed to have more life after Sherm started calling plays.

I'm just saying I don't think you can blame the ineptness of the Offense early in the season against arguably some of the worst Defenses of all time on the O line. For the record, I actually think Campbell showed a lot during the second half of the season and am totally comfortable with him being the starter. I just don't think drafting a QB with the first pick should be off the table by any means. I believe the O line can still be addressed if they draft a QB with the 4th pick.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=PHazard;664616]Anyone else see that after a talk with Shanahan, Jason Campbell feels he has a future in Washington? ( i assume future means more than just next season)

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/18/jason-campbell-had-real-positive-talk-with-mike-shanahan/]Jason Campbell had "real positive" talk with Mike Shanahan | ProFootballTalk.com[/url][/quote]

Not sure I buy the premise that the biggest knock on JC is his inability to throw downfield, and I certainly don't accept his excuse that it's because he didn't have time. No one criticizes him for failing to throw the ball downfield when he's being sacked in a split second. People who criticize his long ball ability criticize him for the plays [U]where he did have time to throw[/U] and he did have receivers open, but still failed to get the ball close. How many balls landed out of bounds or out of the back of end zone last year? That said, he looked better later in the season and should have no problem securing the starting job next year, regardless of who they draft at #4.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

Well if it was up to Kiper he says it's a "No Brainer" The skins should take a QB in the first round.. I agree 100%, you can find solid lineman in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Sam Bradford doesn't walk through the door every season. I even like Clausen but would rather have Bradford. 6FT 4 , Big arm, Accuracy compared to guys like Brees and Manning, and maybe the smartest player in the draft. Oh also a good athlete too.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/kipers-argument-for-the-redski.html]Redskins Insider - Kiper's argument for the Redskins drafting Clausen[/url]

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=44Deezel;664619]And I'll keep saying it. We must have been watching different games. I checked his sack totals after 4 games and he was in the bottom third. The O line was a mess after Samuels went down, AND Campbell actually played better. He was absolutely NOT running for his life against the Lions, Bucs, Rams and friggin Chefs. BUT who's to say it wasn't Zorn's fault. The O definitely seemed to have more life after Sherm started calling plays.

I'm just saying I don't think you can blame the ineptness of the Offense early in the season against arguably some of the worst Defenses of all time on the O line. For the record, I actually think Campbell showed a lot during the second half of the season and am totally comfortable with him being the starter. I just don't think drafting a QB with the first pick should be off the table by any means. I believe the O line can still be addressed if they draft a QB with the 4th pick.[/quote]Well, before Samuels went down, we could block a three man rush. It hadn't reached comical yet. Doesn't mean we weren't toast at the time.

The whole idea of "the line was actually good for one-quarter of the season" is a ridiculous premise to begin with. If the point is to try to isolate a four game sample from an entire season as being indicative of a dependent players true value, you aren't going to have anything but an operative theory. There's really nothing there to suggest the line was any better then, but it was at least less injured.

Things of course didn't get really bad until we played an actual opponent that could rush the quarterback (Philly), and that's when Campbell started to run for his life -- literally. But that doesn't mean Gaines Adams (RIP), Cliff Avril, and Ryan Sims weren't exploiting match-ups that simply didn't exist for them in 15 other games.

Now, as Slingin Sammy and myself can both verify, pressure was not the primary determinant on any of Campbell's three picks in the TB game. It was, however, the primary determinant on the pick in the DET game. But more than forcing turnovers, pressure just kills the rhythm of our WCO passing game.

This was post-Samuels injury, but the Kansas City game was probably the lowpoint of my fanship with the Redskins. That team has 31 sacks in the last two seasons. That's the worst two season stretch since the statistic was recorded. Three off those 31 game in that game, and they got a game clinching forced fumble on Todd Collins. All three sacks came on a three man rush. I love Samuels as much as the next guy, but he would just have been completely out of place in that mess.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;664618]In a few years? Dude he is 28 years old.. How much more time does this guy need? I like JC but his time is up in D.C, and yes I agree with you but Campbell is worth atleast a 2nd round pick.. Anyone who takes a beaten like JC did last year deserves a good pick lol.[/quote]

I'm not saying he will succeed in Was man butwith all the OC and HC hae has had to face the kid is a mess he needs at least 2 more years in a system that fits him so he can lead a team....

If I was your team I would put a equal tender o nthe kid (1st) which would be cheaper no way anybody trade a 1st for him... and I would draft a young futre QB... I keep him for thsi year under Shanahan and see if he sees anything o nthe kid if not it gives me a year to groom the replacement

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

I agree, If someone offered a 2nd or 3rd, I could see us trading him away. Honestly I think he deserves a shot at another team, i've heard around here that STL is interested in Campbell, also Buffalo is as well. I would deal him if we are going to draft Bradford. He could come in as a rookie and do a decent job (Sanchez, Flacco, Ryan) . Clausen? I dont know for sure..

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=Son Of Man;664601]Thank you! Ben Rothlisberger and Aaron Rogers seem to be able to elevate their play with sub-par lines...why do we excuse JC's mediocrity?[/quote]

The difference was the time they were given to throw. Ben and Rogers were able to complete 7 step drops. Their style is high risk high reward. Either they get sacked or a receiver breaks open and the offense gets a big completion.

JC behind our O-Line wasn't even able to complete much more then a 3 step drop. Thats the difference.

I'm not the biggest JC supporter but comparing JC to Big Ben and Rodgers because all three were frequently sacked isn't the way to go about arguing against JC.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=mlmdub130;663740]we already have, he was just on ir last year[/quote]


Brennan isn't the man. Bradford had a stacked hand, but still faced a lot tougher opponents than Colt ever did. If we didn't take Brennan he would have gone undrafted. For a guy that set all those passing records at Hawaii, don't you think the other 31 teams passing him up would send you up some red flags? The only thing he had on Chase Daniel last season was size. If Chase was 6'3" or 6'4" Brennan would have been the one to get a SB ring.

Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd
 

[quote=GTripp0012;664611][B]2009 Sack Rates[/B]

Jason Campbell: 7.8%, 550 dropbacks
Aaron Rodgers: 8.5%, 591 dropbacks
Ben Roethlisberger: 9.0%, 556 dropbacks

Who made what look good again?[/quote]
yeah they got hit more, but also put up better numbers

either way, great QB or not you shouldn't put up with that type of line if you care about your QB