Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Gallop Poll......

I know it's there business ,I just don't agree it's a good cross section of Americans .



[url=http://www.gallup.com/poll/165563/remains-divided-passing-stricter-gun-laws.aspx]U.S. Remains Divided Over Passing Stricter Gun Laws[/url]

[B]Survey Methods[/B]
Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Oct. 3-6, 2013, with a random sample of 1,028 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia.
For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.
for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted MM DD, 2013, with a random sample of x,xxx adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia.
For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the margin of sampling error is ±x percentage points.
Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones and cellular phones, with interviews conducted in Spanish for respondents who are primarily Spanish-speaking. Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by region. Landline and cell telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods. Landline respondents are chosen at random within each household on the basis of which member had the most recent birthday.
Samples are weighted to correct for unequal selection probability, nonresponse, and double coverage of landline and cell users in the two sampling frames. They are also weighted to match the national demographics of gender, age, race, Hispanic ethnicity, education, region, population density, and phone status (cellphone only/landline only/both, and cellphone mostly). Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2012 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older U.S. population. Phone status targets are based on the July-December 2011 National Health Interview Survey. Population density targets are based on the 2010 census. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting.
In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

I'll give firstdown credit. I don't agree with his arguments but at least he recognizes that something must be done to protect people. Unlike others who have argued for a bloody status quo, he is not in insensitive denial of the problems created by gun violence.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://wtvr.com/2013/10/28/500-kids-die-7500-injured-by-guns-yearly/]500 kids die, 7,500 injured by guns yearly | WTVR.com[/url]

increasing folks

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Read the report, it's mostly and conveniently using the word 'child' to describe 15-19 year olds. It should read 'juvenile'.

Coincidentally, it's also the age of the [URL="http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/demographics"]40%-60%[/URL] (depending on urban/suburban split) of gang bangers.

So before you go to sleep at night having nightmares about 2 year old's toting Magnum .45's try adding a little rational thought to your deliberately misleading post.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1036779]Read the report, it's mostly and conveniently using the word 'child' to describe 15-19 year olds. It should read 'juvenile'.

Coincidentally, it's also the age of the [URL="http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/demographics"]40%-60%[/URL] (depending on urban/suburban split) of gang bangers.

So before you go to sleep at night having nightmares about 2 year old's toting Magnum .45's try adding a little rational thought to your deliberately misleading post.[/quote]

That's an odd claim. If you read the report on the AAP site (and the study was presented at its conference), it says nothing about ages like you claim.
[url=http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/Prevalence-of-Household-Gun-Ownership-Linked-to-Child-Gun-Shot-Wounds.aspx]Prevalence of Household Gun Ownership Linked to Child Gun Shot Wounds[/url]

What it does say, and which you omit to add, is this claim, found right in the title: "Prevalence of Household Gun Ownership Linked to Child Gun Shot Wounds." That's rather different than talking about gang members. So whose post was misleading?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1036780]That's an odd claim. If you read the summary on the AAP site (and the study was presented at its conference), it says nothing about ages.
[URL="http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/Prevalence-of-Household-Gun-Ownership-Linked-to-Child-Gun-Shot-Wounds.aspx"]Prevalence of Household Gun Ownership Linked to Child Gun Shot Wounds[/URL]

What it does say, and which you omit to add, is this claim, found right in the title: "Prevalence of Household Gun Ownership Linked to Child Gun Shot Wounds." That's rather different than talking about gang members. So whose post was misleading?[/quote]

I read one of the sources the data was taken from:

[URL="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/5/e1416.full?sid=0fd76a3f-2ca9-4069-9960-8c889def313a"]Firearm-Related Injuries Affecting the Pediatric Population[/URL]

And here's the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/United States Childhood Gun-Violence – Disturbing Trends"]link[/URL] from the AAP Conference with the title - '[I]United States Childhood Gun-Violence – Disturbing Trends[/I]'

After clicking through lots of links and related articles, it sounds to me like an attempt to fund a project that got de-funded a while back.

The study does cite its sources, and, despite better things to do this evening, I drilled down far enough to see how they'd skewed the data. You're welcome to do the same.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1036795]I read one of the sources the data was taken from:

[URL="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/5/e1416.full?sid=0fd76a3f-2ca9-4069-9960-8c889def313a"]Firearm-Related Injuries Affecting the Pediatric Population[/URL]

And here's the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/United States Childhood Gun-Violence – Disturbing Trends"]link[/URL] from the AAP Conference with the title - '[I]United States Childhood Gun-Violence – Disturbing Trends[/I]'

After clicking through lots of links and related articles, it sounds to me like an attempt to fund a project that got de-funded a while back.

The study does cite its sources, and, despite better things to do this evening, I drilled down far enough to see how they'd skewed the data. You're welcome to do the same.[/quote]

You did not read your own link clearly. For example, you missed this important tidbit:
"For children 5 to 14 years of age, firearm suicide rates were 8 times higher, and death rates from unintentional firearm injuries were 10 times higher in the United States than other high-income countries. The difference in rates may be related to the ease of availability of guns in the United States compared with other high-income countries."

That's pretty damning stuff for the gun status quo.

The 15-19 age group was just one age group discussed in the link you posted, which was just one source of the report cited above. The report cited above stands.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1036796]You did not read your own link clearly. [/quote]

Yes, I did.

[quote=Lotus;1036796]For example, you missed this important tidbit:
"For children 5 to 14 years of age, firearm suicide rates were 8 times higher, and death rates from unintentional firearm injuries were 10 times higher in the United States than other high-income countries. The difference in rates may be related to the ease of availability of guns in the United States compared with other high-income countries."

That's pretty damning stuff for the gun status quo.[/quote]

I guess it depends which country you use as your control:

[URL="http://www.npr.org/2013/03/19/174758723/facing-switzerland-gun-culture"]NPR - Swiss Gun Culture[/URL]

[I]The study reviewed 158 Swiss murders and suicides that took place between 1991 and 2008. It found 90 percent of the cases involved firearms[/I].

[quote=Lotus;1036796]The 15-19 age group was just one age group discussed in the link you posted, which was just one source of the report cited above. The report cited above stands.[/quote]

Mainly because it's by far the largest amount of fatalities, deliberately included to skew the data and raise the level of horror, for obvious reasons. Drop that group out (which clearly includes gang-bangers and wannabe's) and the figure drops remarkably, thus undermining the hair-on-fire thrust.

The report is odious and predictable. I'm on a four day weekend, should be a lively one.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1037272]Yes, I did.



I guess it depends which country you use as your control:

[URL="http://www.npr.org/2013/03/19/174758723/facing-switzerland-gun-culture"]NPR - Swiss Gun Culture[/URL]

[I]The study reviewed 158 Swiss murders and suicides that took place between 1991 and 2008. It found 90 percent of the cases involved firearms[/I].



Mainly because it's by far the largest amount of fatalities, deliberately included to skew the data and raise the level of horror, for obvious reasons. Drop that group out (which clearly includes gang-bangers and wannabe's) and the figure drops remarkably, thus undermining the hair-on-fire thrust.

The report is odious and predictable. I'm on a four day weekend, should be a lively one.[/quote]

Once again you failed to read your own link. For example, you overlooked this bit: "Firearm deaths in Switzerland take place at just one-seventh the rate that they occur in the United States."

So it's only 1/7 the death rate in Switzerland compared to the USA, rather than the 1/10 number listed by the other report for other countries. Either way, those data are clear: the United States has gun violence problem far exceeding that of other prosperous countries.

The inclusion of the 15-19 age group in the other report simply makes it complete. It would be poor science to leave out statistics regarding an age group simply because they are inconvenient for your belief. Besides, inclusion of the 15-19 age group does absolutely nothing to change this passage, which you continue to ignore:

"For children 5 to 14 years of age, firearm suicide rates were 8 times higher, and death rates from unintentional firearm injuries were 10 times higher in the United States than other high-income countries. The difference in rates may be related to the ease of availability of guns in the United States compared with other high-income countries."

So either you are in denial or you won't admit that your view is wrong. Either way, until you argue in good faith you are pointless as a conversation partner.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://www.nbc12.com/story/23851998/suspected-lax-shooter-identified-tsa-agent-dead]Man opens fire at LAX security checkpoint - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/url]

not gonna stop

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1037564][URL="http://www.nbc12.com/story/23851998/suspected-lax-shooter-identified-tsa-agent-dead"]Man opens fire at LAX security checkpoint - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News[/URL]

not gonna stop[/quote]

CA has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, this should be further evidence that more restrictive gun laws won't stop a determined maniac. Friends, family and society need to take a greater role in making it safer.

On another note, Banksy may be the best artist of our time.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1037290]Once again you failed to read your own link.[/quote]

I read it and, unlike you, understand the underlying numbers.

[quote=Lotus;1037290]For example, you overlooked this bit: "Firearm deaths in Switzerland take place at just one-seventh the rate that they occur in the United States."[/quote]

The Swiss (and a majority of other gun-toting countries) don't have our pervasive gang problem, where the 'children' are included in the gun crime rates.

[quote=Lotus;1037290]So it's only 1/7 the death rate in Switzerland compared to the USA, rather than the 1/10 number listed by the other report for other countries. Either way, those data are clear: the United States has gun violence problem far exceeding that of other prosperous countries.[/quote]

See above.

[quote=Lotus;1037290]The inclusion of the 15-19 age group in the other report simply makes it complete. [/quote]

Nonsense, it makes for hysteria, which is what the media and anti-freedom, anti-gun groups want

[quote=Lotus;1037290]It would be poor science to leave out statistics regarding an age group simply because they are inconvenient for your belief. [/quote]

Or you could be honest and recognize that this age group completely skews the data.

[quote=Lotus;1037290]Besides, inclusion of the 15-19 age group does absolutely nothing to change this passage, which you continue to ignore:
"For children 5 to 14 years of age, firearm suicide rates were 8 times higher, and death rates from unintentional firearm injuries were 10 times higher in the United States than other high-income countries. The difference in rates may be related to the ease of availability of guns in the United States compared with other high-income countries."[/quote]

Interestingly, breaking out the data of gun deaths of the 5-14 year olds is remarkably difficult, wich would suggest that we can probably discount the amount up to 12 year olds.

[quote=Lotus;1037290]So either you are in denial or you won't admit that your view is wrong. Either way, until you argue in good faith you are pointless as a conversation partner.[/quote]

Try to be honest, Lotus. Can you reasonably compare the intention that a young teen has to commit an act of violence with a handgun to that of a 5 year old?

There's no way I'd state that a 5 year old has never been harmed with a gun, I'm sure it's happened. But to make it sound like it's an epidemic is dishonest scaremongering.

The numbers are being deliberately distorted by the inclusion of gang-related gun crime. We can't have an honest discussion if the numbers are not accurately stated.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

RR,

Typing on my phone so please excuse any spelling, etc.

1. Saying a state or city have restrictive gun laws is silly. It's very easy to go to a neighboring state and buy a gun and bring it back home. Unless we have uniform laws that is a flimsy argument.

2. Banksy is our beat artist. He is amazing.

3. Look at the swiss. Plenty of guns, hard to get bullets. Bullets are closely guarded and are typically purchased and used just at the range.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1037590]CA has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, this should be further evidence that more restrictive gun laws won't stop a determined maniac. Friends, family and society need to take a greater role in making it safer.

On another note, Banksy may be the best artist of our time.[/quote]

Banksy is amazing. Think I'm going to NYC the weekend after Christmas, hopefully they I can see some pieces. The hustler club piece is amazing. My sis live in the upper east side she seen a couple. Can't wait to be smoking skunk in NYC checking out Banksy works.

[QUOTE=Daseal;1037610] RR,

Typing on my phone so please excuse any spelling, etc. [/QUOTE]

Me too!

[QUOTE=Daseal;1037610]1 . Saying a state or city have restrictive gun laws is silly. It's very easy to go to a neighboring state and buy a gun and bring it back home. Unless we have uniform laws that is a flimsy argument. [/QUOTE]

Then why are some people suggesting that more restrictive gun laws would help? Even uniform laws, given the availability across the border of illicit firearms and ammunition, make any law questionable.

[QUOTE=Daseal;1037610] 2. Banksy is our beat artist. He is amazing. [/QUOTE]

I saw an exhibit of his stuff at LACMA, my favorite is the Rodney King piñata picture.

[QUOTE=Daseal;1037610] 3. Look at the swiss. Plenty of guns, hard to get bullets. Bullets are closely guarded and are typically purchased and used just at the range.[/QUOTE]

Except if you REALLY want ammunition you go to Eastern Europe. There's always a way.

People need to be more supportive and caring.

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