Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094538]That's why I say start the 3rd rounders, let's see what they can do. Leribus is probably better than Lauvao and Long is smart and plays with a chip in his shoulder, something Chester lacks.[/quote]

But but but what if they don't play well and we lose?

:Flush:

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Brody81;1094537]Are we really talking head coach change again?? Vince Lombardi himself could come out of the grave, and he would go 5-11 with this dysfunctional organization.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, It Literally Doesn't Matter Who The Coach is. Dan Snyder has cursed this team

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094509]Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.



Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.



Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.



Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.[/QUOTE]


You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit:[B] Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/B][/quote]


Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too. :silly:

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/quote]

Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.

The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.

Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094547]Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.



The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.



Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.[/QUOTE]


Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

We never should have fired Marty Shottenheimer, he went 8-8 with starting the season terrible, he had a solid resume, only getting 1 season was asinine.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094546]Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too. :silly:[/quote]

Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094550]Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.[/quote]

Lol... No...

That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/quote]

And you are assuming he can't.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094553]Lol... No...



That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.[/QUOTE]


Summer before his first starting season I remember he was caught in the crossfire of favre leaving. That first year - he LIT IT UP. They might have been booing the team but im not so sure it was directed at Rodgers. Either way my point was (stupid fans or not) he was an immediate success once he took over. Again - over 4,000 yards and 28 td's.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094552]Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.[/quote]


You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Bucket;1094554]And you are assuming he can't.[/quote]

I am assuming nothing, I can see what is on the field.

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1094554]And you are assuming he can't.[/QUOTE]


No im not. Not at all. Im simply saying that he might not pan out even with whatever is considered proper development. My point being that what we are seeing might be ....well what we will continue to see. A superb athlete - oft injured - that doesnt appear to be a good passing qb.
Lets not turn this into a RG-3 hater vs apologist bologna argument. To a man every single person onthis board - scratch that - every single Redskins fan in the world would be just tickled pink to see Griff pay off and lead this team for years to come at a high level.
However since none of us have a crystal ball we can only base what we think will happen on what we are seeing happen. To say he only needs to be developed properly is discounting the fact that he has to first have that ability inside him. He might and he might not, but ill be damned if im going to sit here believing he does based on his play so far this year.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094556]You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?[/quote]

You are talking about 2 games. How many times have we scored, I dont know, 26 points only to give up two 4th quarter TD's by a rookie QB and lose by 3. Yeah that just happened against Minny. And of course, its all RG3's fault because defense doesnt matter. Of course he did hit some things over 15 yards in that game. The Houston game JJ Watt was in the backfield as much as our RB's were. Quick passes became the plan pretty early on in that game. You keep claiming that you are watching but seem to miss some pretty basic stuff.