Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;718441]We are voters not legislators able to cut deals. I tend to base my vote on things I believe or don't believe in not [/quote]

I tend to vote on which I think would be better for the greater population. Though personally I have a lot of conservative views I don't think that my singular opinion should be reflected in the governance of such a diverse nation.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;718479]LOL on the lecture. You also mention ban on partial birth abortion, not third trimester. You then throw in the caveat of "mental health" which makes a ban basically not worth the paper it's written on. So much for the courage of going against the hard core left's social agenda.

I knew where you were going with this, just wondering how long it would take to get there....and we're at the same spot as always.[/quote]

I am more than happy to be the professor. Have you resolved your conflict or you still in limbo? Just know that it isn't necessary for you to display compliance in an online forum.

What would the text of your prop say? Ban third trimester in all cases except when health is an issue but not mental health? I never claimed to go against "hard core leftist social agenda." Where is that coming from? Are you simply throwing an anchor and hoping it catches something?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=tryfuhl;718484]I tend to vote on which I think would be better for the greater population. Though personally I have a lot of conservative views I don't think that my singular opinion should be reflected in the governance of such a diverse nation.[/quote]
Give me an instance where you voted against your beliefs.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I personally don't really care if gays get married or not but if I had to vote on the issue I would have to really take a close look at the pros & cons. We also have to remember the government does not ban gays from getting married they just don't recognize their marriage through the state. I have a gay cousin and a few friends that are gay. One actually says he has found god and is no longer gay so I guess in his case it was a choice. I have always felt that 50% of gays are born that way and the other 50% choose the life style for one reason or the other.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=firstdown;718579]I personally don't really care if gays get married or not but if I had to vote on the issue I would have to really take a close look at the pros & cons. We also have to remember the government does not ban gays from getting married they just don't recognize their marriage through the state. I have a gay cousin and a few friends that are gay. One actually says he has found god and is no longer gay so I guess in his case it was a choice. I have always felt that 50% of gays are born that way and the other 50% choose the life style for one reason or the other.[/quote]

50%? So you think half of the gay population choses that lifestyle cause its cool? Yeah Im sure they enjoy prevalent discrimination, being the victim of hate crimes, higher sucide and substance abuse rates...I dont think too many people who want to chose that...i think your ratio is off, more like 95% to 5% and half of the 5% probably in jail.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;718130]It's not about sheltering kids from "ever" receiving the education or actually being delusional enough to think they're not going to find out about it. It IS about believing that individual families have the right to decide how/when the child is introduced to such realities. I don't personally believe that a kid learns about homosexuality = a kid decides to be gay. So, Matty's comment in response to your post is a typical misread of the situation and pretty common overreaction. I do find it entertaining (and disappointing) that those most up in arms about the rights of those they agree with are the first to resort to name calling and sarcasm instead of rational discussion, on both sides. I support everyone else's right to freedom up until the second that it infringes upon my own. I don't believe that to be unreasonable, it's just the truth.[/quote]

I agree that individual families have the right to decide for themselves. I would (almost) never want to decide for others, which is why I support gay marriage. I just don't understand those families that would shelter their kids from learning about reality.

To me, it's all about teaching critical thinking above all else. If your child is learning math, then they're capable of learning critical thinking.

But, it seems most parents today are less concerned about giving their children the tools to think critically -- so they can arrive at their own decisions (which will inevitably happen anyways) -- and are more concerned with influencing their decisions and opinions. It's a model for failure IMO.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;718496]Give me an instance where you voted against your beliefs.[/quote]

Those are his beliefs. He's a Contractarian.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Chico23231;718587]50%? So you think half of the gay population choses that lifestyle cause its cool? Yeah Im sure they enjoy prevalent discrimination, being the victim of hate crimes, higher sucide and substance abuse rates...I dont think too many people who want to chose that...i think your ratio is off, more like 95% to 5% and half of the 5% probably in jail.[/quote]

Yea its not like people don't chose to do other stupid stuff every day and why would I ever think that someone could do some like that. LOL By the way do you smoke?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

So we're comparing choosing to smoke with choosing to be gay?

:doh:

I think you're either gay or you're not. Seems like an awfully odd "choice" to make.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I'm sure we can all remember the day we made a choice to be heterosexuals...for me it was the first time I saw boobs in a movie. They seemed mysterious and magical and I had this urge to want to touch them and squeeze them and play with them and discover the physics of them.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=firstdown;718579]I personally don't really care if gays get married or not but if I had to vote on the issue I would have to really take a close look at the pros & cons. We also have to remember the government does not ban gays from getting married they just don't recognize their marriage through the state. I have a gay cousin and a few friends that are gay. One actually says he has found god and is no longer gay so I guess in his case it was a choice. I have always felt that 50% of gays are born that way and the other 50% choose the life style for one reason or the other.[/quote]


Sometimes I think your world is no bigger then a broom closet. This has to be one of your top 5 dumbest post.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;498394][B]What I find so ironic is that so many members of the "small government" crowd think the government should decide whether people are afforded fundamental rights on the basis of their sexual preferences[/B].

Also, big ups to Saden for citing [U]Loving v. Virginia[/U]. Dude knows his history. I don't necessarily think it violates the Equal Protection clause, but it's plain wrong to deny homosexuals the right to marry.[/quote]

this is what i have problems understanding as well.

members of the "small gov't" want very limited federal gov't and to be allowed to live how they and their local community wishes, i.e. laws and regs on intimate and personal issues should be left to the individual person or their local voted-for representative.

yet when it comes to gay marriages and abortions (2 issues representing the core of what I consider intimate and personal choices), the "small gov't" people in texas want communities in california to abide by their own preferences on issues such as abortion or gay rights.

i agree to an extent with the small gov't group. imo arlington va representatives are much more closely in-tune and aware of their towns wishes and needs more than the president of the US. so if a town in texas wants to ban gay marriages, so be it. if a town wants to allow gay marriage, so be it.

thats why we have salt lake city and las vegas.

some good discussion going on here fellas. this has to be some of the most intelligent discussion ever had between football fans on a football fan forum.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=over the mountain;718629]this is what i have problems understanding as well.

members of the "small gov't" want very limited federal gov't and to be allowed to live how they and their local community wishes, i.e. laws and regs on intimate and personal issues should be left to the individual person or their local voted-for representative.

yet when it comes to gay marriages and abortions (2 issues representing the core of what I consider intimate and personal choices), the "small gov't" people in texas want communities in california to abide by their own preferences on issues such as abortion or gay rights.

i agree to an extent with the small gov't group. imo arlington va representatives are much more closely in-tune and aware of their towns wishes and needs more than the president of the US. so if a town in texas wants to ban gay marriages, so be it. if a town wants to allow gay marriage, so be it.

thats why we have salt lake city and las vegas.

some good discussion going on here fellas. this has to be some of the most intelligent discussion ever had between football fans on a football fan forum.[/quote]

Nice reply to a two year old post. For a second I thought SGG was back.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=mredskins;718628]Sometimes I think your world is no bigger then a broom closet. This has to be one of your top 5 dumbest post.[/quote]

I actually found firstdowns post more open minded than most. He could've taken the TTE route and thought gays should be destroyed. :P Not saying first right, but just saying he could've been way way more obtuse (everyones favorite word!) So I gotta give firstdown some kudos. A bit misguided, but kudos nevertheless.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[IMG]http://cagle.com/working/100807/plante.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

^it was fun listening to Fox news tip toe around that issue. They do that hypocrite dance so well

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;718671]I actually found firstdowns post more open minded than most. He could've taken the TTE route and thought gays should be destroyed. :P Not saying first right, but just saying he could've been way way more obtuse (everyones favorite word!) So I gotta give firstdown some kudos. A bit misguided, but kudos nevertheless.[/quote]


For the most part I find him humorous but his comments about gays wanting to be gay is just plain retard.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=mredskins;718628]Sometimes I think your world is no bigger then a broom closet. This has to be one of your top 5 dumbest post.[/quote]

Sounds like you need to come out of the closet. We know you want to.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Oooohhhhh burn!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=firstdown;718762]Sounds like you need to come out of the closet. We know you want to.[/quote]


pas de touche..

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=jdlea;718741][IMG]http://cagle.com/working/100807/plante.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

LOL nice

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;718671]I actually found firstdowns post more open minded than most. He could've taken the TTE route and thought gays should be destroyed. :P Not saying first right, but just saying he could've been way way more obtuse (everyones favorite word!) So I gotta give firstdown some kudos. A bit misguided, but kudos nevertheless.[/quote]

So you can read minds now? I don't need to think gays should be destroyed. Their effed up lifestyle, crystal meth, and HIV destroys them regardless of what I think. I lived and worked in San Francisco and in the East Bay. I watched them destroy themselves. It gave me no pleasure in doing so, but pity is for the weak. It's a hard ball world and not everyone has compassion for self-inflicted wounds.

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/born-boy-but-fighting-for-death-benefits-as-widow/]Born a boy, but fighting for death benefits as widow - Washington Times[/url]