Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=44Deezel;542715]This could be a rallying call for Zorn and Campbell. It reminds me of the scene in Major League when the team finds out they were assembled just so the owner could move the team after a sh*tty season.

Zorn will tell Campbell that Cutler was the first step in a two step process to get Shanahan here next year and that they're in it together. Us vs. Them!

Campbell - "Well what do we do know?"
Zorn - "Win the whole fu*#ing thing"[/quote]

Why couldn't they have had this attitude without the threat of being traded?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=redsk1;542836]Exactly who hired this coach and when? That was one of the points i've been making. The JZ hire was desparation, lack of a plan type of hire.[/quote]

I agree, as much as I like the Zorn hire as a breath of fresh air, I really think DS and Co. had no other options and had to promote Zorn to HC. I cant see how any big time coach would want to come to the Skins to be jerked around by an owner that wont back him and is as likely as not to fire him fast. I think any smart coach just wouldnt want that taint on his resume.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

GT, I think you're assuming an awful lot w/regards to Campbell & the 2nd round pick that they asked for. Just because no deal was made doesn't mean there wasn't a deal in place. They weren't going to trade JC unless they got Cutler first.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=redsk1;542827]Yea, i considered starting a "is JC going to still be traded" thread. It's worthy of discussion b/c it's fairly evident that the decision makers (Vin and Dan) don't think too highly of Mr. Campbell. They may feel that this bridge is burned. If JC doesn't have a good year, he's gone. If he does have a good year, he may not want to come back.

So, that begs the question would they take a 2nd rounder for JC and let TC's play QB this year. It's not so crazy enough not to ask. For this franchise nothing is beyond discussion.[/quote]

Colt Brennan!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=freddyg12;542845]GT, I think you're assuming an awful lot w/regards to Campbell & the 2nd round pick that they asked for. Just because no deal was made doesn't mean there wasn't a deal in place. They weren't going to trade JC unless they got Cutler first.[/quote]Yep, you are correct. I'm just saying that there's significant reason to believe that no one was interested in Campbell at that price.

Teams who try to build through the free agency and trade systems can't afford to buy high and sell low. We tried our darnedest to commit both errors yesterday.

If you are looking to trades to improve your team, you need to do what the Pats did to get Moss: find a player who fits, but is improperly valued by his current organization. Theoretically, this can be done with Jason Campbell, but not at the price of a second round pick.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542843]I agree, as much as I like the Zorn hire as a breath of fresh air,[B] I really think DS and Co. had no other options and had to promote Zorn to HC.[/B] I cant see how any big time coach would want to come to the Skins to be jerked around by an owner that wont back him and is as likely as not to fire him fast. I think any smart coach just wouldnt want that taint on his resume.[/quote]

Fassell?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

gtripp I can't reply to everything you said on my phone but I want to acknowledge that you make a good, if somewhat counterintuitive argument. your explaination is very possible but its also possible that campbell is just mediocre and everyone who is not biased towards the skins is able to see it.

with all that historical data you provided, one thing becomes very clear - its very hard to find a great starting quarterback in this league. im just discouraged because well have to start from scratch again next year. the worst possible scenario happened yesterday.

if campbell surprises me and plays well, theres no way in hell he resigns here when his contract is up. if he plays poorly, well need a new QB anyways. either way, the longer we stick with campbell, the longer it will take for us to find a long term solution at QB.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=freddyg12;542845]GT, I think you're assuming an awful lot w/regards to Campbell & the 2nd round pick that they asked for. [B]Just because no deal was made doesn't mean there wasn't a deal in place[/B]. They weren't going to trade JC unless they got Cutler first.[/quote]

Then that would blow the "Nobody was interested in JC for a second round pick" argument that is being made. The point I've been trying to make is we just don't know if anyone was, or is, interested in getting JC. Therefore to say he isn't any good because no one else wanted him is ridiculous.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542858]gtripp I can't reply to everything you said on my phone but I want to acknowledge that you make a good, if somewhat counterintuitive argument. your explaination is very possible but its also possible that campbell is just mediocre and everyone who is not biased towards the skins is able to see it. [/quote]I agree, but then it goes back to other threads in which I've shown that Campbell and Cutler are very similar statistically, which is a horse we've beaten to a bloody pulp.

Current NFL perception does seem to agree with you, BHA, as does the perception of our front office. But if there's anything I've learned in my lifetime, it's that whenever conventional logic sharply disagrees with strong evidence, it's probably wrong.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=53Fan;542853]Fassell?[/quote]

Sure they talked to Fassell (and Gregg Williams too) but in the end I am sure Fassell told them thanks but no thanks so with no place else to turn they promoted Zorn.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=53Fan;542861]Then that would blow the "Nobody was interested in JC for a second round pick" argument that is being made. The point I've been trying to make is we just don't know if anyone was, or is, interested in getting JC. Therefore to say he isn't any good because no one else wanted him is ridiculous.[/quote]

Nobody was interested in Campbell for a second round pick because they knew if we traded for Cutler, JC would come alot cheaper. I bet if we put Campbell on the trade market now that we could get a 2nd rounder for him easily. Are you telling me that Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a third and Campbelll isn't even worth a 2nd?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542843]I agree, as much as I like the Zorn hire as a breath of fresh air, I really think DS and Co. had no other options and had to promote Zorn to HC. I cant see how any big time coach would want to come to the Skins [B]to be jerked around by an owner that wont back him and is as likely as not to fire him fast. [/B] I think any smart coach just wouldnt want that taint on his resume.[/quote]

Name one coach that DS has hired, who either during his time here OR upon leaving, that has said Snyder has not given him what he asked for or backed him in anyway. There are probably hundreds of posts on this board disproving the first part of your statement.

And what is your definition of fast?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542858]gtripp I can't reply to everything you said on my phone but I want to acknowledge that you make a good, if somewhat counterintuitive argument. your explaination is very possible but its also possible that campbell is just mediocre and everyone who is not biased towards the skins is able to see it.

with all that historical data you provided, one thing becomes very clear - its very hard to find a great starting quarterback in this league. im just discouraged because well have to start from scratch again next year. [B] the worst possible scenario happened yesterday. [/B]

if campbell surprises me and plays well, theres no way in hell he resigns here when his contract is up. if he plays poorly, well need a new QB anyways. either way, the longer we stick with campbell, the longer it will take for us to find a long term solution at QB.[/quote]

BHA are you Matt Mosely???
Seriously, we didn't over-value a fair to good qb in Cutler, our coach immediately re-assured our qb, and the FO backed away from someone the owner severely wanted. This was far from the worst scenario.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542865]Sure they talked to Fassell (and Gregg Williams too) but in the end [B]I am sure Fassell told them thanks but no thanks[/B] so with no place else to turn they promoted Zorn.[/quote]

I doubt it, considering he has spent the past year practically begging for work in the NFL, and now has settled for the UFL.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=tryfuhl;542812]it's been on ESPN since yesterday, many of the commentators were saying cutler should see how campbell handled it.. others praising his demeanor, etc

are you watching anything outside of washington? haha[/quote]

dangit, i woke up late as hell today (dont use an alarm clock but go by how light it is outside, didnt know there was a black rain cloud over bmore so what looked like 6:30 am was really 8:30 am) but caught about a half hour of cowherd and only heard cutler bashing . . . plus, i think i say this too much on here, i dont have damn cable!

well im glad JC gets credit where credit is due, thank you and skinsgirl for updating me, i thought this was yet another example of media going crazy over a negative story and giving a lil blurb to an apposite positive one.

go skins!!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I don't really agree with their conclusion, but I do think people should see this Cutler thing from the other side, courtesy of CHFF.

[url=http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2708_A_team_in_need_of_a_statistical_stimulus_plan.html]Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: A team in need of a statistical stimulus plan[/url]

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542865]Sure they talked to Fassell (and Gregg Williams too) but in the end I am sure Fassell told them thanks but no thanks so with no place else to turn they promoted Zorn.[/quote]

1 month before Marty was hired, he was an analyst on ESPN and said emphatically that he would never work for DS. Shortly thereafter Dan hired him. Since he was fired I have never heard him say one negative thing about Snyder. This, in my mind proves 2 things:
1 - If Danny wants a coach he will do what it takes to get him.
2 - Danny generally knows how to treat head coaches.

What Danny definitely does not do very well, is manage his public persona.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;542875]Name one coach that DS has hired, who either during his time here OR upon leaving, that has said Snyder has not given him what he asked for or backed him in anyway. There are probably hundreds of posts on this board disproving the first part of your statement.

And what is your definition of fast?[/quote]

No coach said that or ever would in public. Its not necessarily what DS says, its what he doesnt say that speaks louder.

I would say that Zorn was hung out and not supported by mgmt during the whole Portis fiasco last year. Portis knew he could say that stuff because he knew when it came right down to it DS would back him not JZ.

I would say OBC quit because he knew DS was going to can him. Marty was canned because OBC became available. That was over the span of what, 3 years. I'd say 2 coaches in 3 years is pretty fast and 4 coaches in 7 or 8 years is worse yet.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I'm sure Fassell would turn down a chance to get back into the NFL. LOL please

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Most of the current, well thought of coaches would not come around here IMO. The Fassels, Mariuccis, Zorns of the world, sure. Not that Fassel isn't a decent coach but let's face it, I don't see anyone beating down his door.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=redsk1;542895]Most of the current, well thought of coaches would not come around here IMO. The Fassels, Mariuccis, Zorns of the world, sure. Not that Fassel isn't a decent coach but let's face it, I don't see anyone beating down his door.[/quote]

I dont think the Skins HC job is the plum Skins fans think it is.

I guess I can help but wonder why if Zorn was the choice for HC why was he hired as Offense Coordinator?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

This thread has been dead horsed.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Time to close up shop then...?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542901]I dont think the Skins HC job is the plum Skins fans think it is.

I guess I can help but wonder why if Zorn was the choice for HC why was he hired as Offense Coordinator?[/quote]

Maybe you could educate yourself on that a little instead of wondering and forming new opinions based on old biases. They never said they hired him to be HC initially. They hired him as OC and were so impressed that after every interview for HC they kept comparing them to Zorn and finally figured out that maybe they should just have hired Zorn as HC.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

The following is a statement from executive vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato on Jason Campbell:

"We met with Jason today [Friday] and had a candid discussion. We told Jason that when Jay Cutler became available we, like many other NFL teams, spoke with the Broncos.

"We are all on the same page and we are moving forward."

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Statement_From_Vinny_Cerrato_on_Jason_Campbell_33340.jsp]Statement From Vinny Cerrato on Jason Campbell[/url]

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;542877]BHA are you Matt Mosely???
Seriously, we didn't over-value a fair to good qb in Cutler, our coach immediately re-assured our qb, and the FO backed away from someone the owner severely wanted. This was far from the worst scenario.[/quote]

from my perspective that's a very niave point of view.

how do we know zorn really believes in jc? he could have just as easily been sent by snyder to do pre-emptive damage control in the event the cutler deal fell through.

even if zorn was genuine, do you really think zorn will be here for a third season? when has snyder ever shown that kind of patience for a coach not named joe gibbs? trent dilfer was on the radio today and insinuated that zorn knows he's on thin ice. what has zorn ever done to make you think he can do anything this season to convince a guy like snyder not to go after one of the four superbowl head coaches who will be available next year?

if you're campbell and you have a good year, why on earth would you come back here? this team has treated him like crap and he has experienced constant change here. he most certainly would want to go somewhere with some stability.

chances are, unless he gets franchised, campbell is playing his last year for the washington redskins.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542945]from my perspective that's a very niave point of view.

how do we know zorn really believes in jc? he could have just as easily been sent by snyder to do pre-emptive damage control in the event the cutler deal fell through.

even if zorn was genuine, do you really think zorn will be here for a third season? when has snyder ever shown that kind of patience for a coach not named joe gibbs? trent dilfer was on the radio today and insinuated that zorn knows he's on thin ice. what has zorn ever done to make you think he can do anything this season to convince a guy like snyder not to go after one of the four superbowl head coaches who will be available next year?

if you're campbell and you have a good year, why on earth would you come back here? this team has treated him like crap and he has experienced constant change here. he most certainly would want to go somewhere with some stability.

chances are, unless he gets franchised, campbell is playing his last year for the washington redskins.[/quote]

If he has a good year he would be franchised, which would give them another year to get something done.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=RedskinMike;542959]If he has a good year he would be franchised, which would give them another year to get something done.[/quote]

Also he's a restricted Free Agent so he's not going anywhere regardless.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542865]Sure they talked to Fassell (and Gregg Williams too) but in the end I am sure Fassell told them thanks but no thanks so with no place else to turn they promoted Zorn.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe that, or does that just help you with your statement. From what I remember they were both disappointed they didn't get the job.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Mattyk72;542906]This thread has been dead horsed.[/quote]
[IMG]http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/BeatDeadHorse.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://forums.the-dispatch.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/6331058458/inlineimg/Y/beating-a-dead-horse.gif[/IMG]

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;542945]from my perspective that's a very niave point of view.

how do we know zorn really believes in jc? he could have just as easily been sent by snyder to do pre-emptive damage control in the event the cutler deal fell through.

even if zorn was genuine, do you really think zorn will be here for a third season? when has snyder ever shown that kind of patience for a coach not named joe gibbs? trent dilfer was on the radio today and insinuated that zorn knows he's on thin ice.

if you're campbell and you have a good year, why on earth would you come back here? this team has treated him like crap and he has experienced constant change here. he most certainly would want to go somewhere with some stability.

chances are, unless he gets franchised, campbell is playing his last year for the washington redskins.[/quote]

Whoa man you said yesterday was the worst possible outcome, and I pointed out several positives that could have been handled much worse.

Yes all your predictions could come true, but again several may not. A simple fact is that yesterday was not THE WORST outcome possible.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GMScud;542879]I doubt it, considering [Fassel] has spent the past year practically begging for work in the NFL, and now has settled for the UFL.[/quote]

And I've never understood that. What mortal sin did Jim Fassel ever commit that make people hate him so much?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Can we kill this thread?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Ruhskins;543002]Can we kill this thread?[/quote]
You can not click the link to come in?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=irish;542865]Sure they talked to Fassell (and Gregg Williams too) but in the end I am sure Fassell told them thanks but no thanks so with no place else to turn they promoted Zorn.[/quote]

Fassell asked for the Oakland job and is now a UFL coach. I say the man was desperate. He also is a WCO disciple.