Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580027]wasn't that bad? It was that bad.
What has he shown you in regular season or preseason to make you believe he is not one of the worst starting qbs in the league.
I'm not attempting to be mindless here, or sling insults with any of you, and if I come off a bit harsh of the man then I can acknowledge that.
But I would be interested in some dialouge refuting my statements on his level of talent/performance if you feel so inclined.[/quote]I said i was done and you pulled me back in.

For 3 consecutive years he has increased his TDs while dropping his INTS. Also for 3 years in a row his QB rating has increased, same with his completion %. After 7 turnovers in his first 7 starts and 19 t/os in his next 13 starts, he had 7 T/os in 16 games last year. All of this while having a beat up o-line. . SOme of the knock last year was that he held the ball too long and took to many sacks, That is something that hasn't happened yet.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

thats good statistical evidence to support a point gibbs.

I hope I am proven wrong, and will drop the topic, conceding he is a middle of the pack qb, nothing less, nothing more.

I've been living in New England since 03 and am tired of hearing it from these pats fans, including my girl and her brother. Heres to success this year and beyond.

Am I the only one who thought the Giants first team looked awful against the Bears last night?
They have injuries at lb and in the secondary, this gives me some hope. I think we have the talent to shut down their run game, and their wide receivers dont scare me.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Bottom line is JC will be given, and rightfully so, his fifth year to live up to his expectations. If he doesnt lead a pretty talented team to the playoffs he will not be here in 2010 (along with Zorn). There will be no more excuses after the season starts. I think as die hard fans you want to see this team in the playoffs and you want a franchise QB. JC has all the physical tools no question, I do have some doubts on his mental/decesion making approach in the pocket. But we need to get behind him let the season play out. I havent been happy with his play so far in the preseason, but hey its the preseason rather have him let bad here than the real season. We do have the first half of last season to look at and say this guy has the ability to win.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;580043]I said i was done and you pulled me back in.

For 3 consecutive years he has increased his TDs while dropping his INTS. Also for 3 years in a row his QB rating has increased, same with his completion %. After 7 turnovers in his first 7 starts and 19 t/os in his next 13 starts, he had 7 T/os in 16 games last year. All of this while having a beat up o-line. . SOme of the knock last year was that he held the ball too long and took to many sacks, That is something that hasn't happened yet.[/quote]

I look at his lack of ints as a knock against him because he does not risk throwing the ball 10 yards down field to pick up the first down and instead dumps it off for another 3 and out. Maybe it just that he has been up against two of the best D's and this week wil be another tough D but for someone to say that are not worried from what they have seen so far is just crazy (not talking about you just in general). Last week if we did not go for the fake punt (which we would not do in a real game sitting on our 35 yard line) JC would have had 3/3 and outs in that game. Maybe by the time we get to the Giants and a real game their D by then will look weak compared to what he has seen in preaseason. Yea, I'm wissing some on that.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Guess I'm crazy because I'm not sweating what we've seen on 13 pass attempts in the preseason for the same reason if he was 13/13 the anti-JC folks would be saying, meh... it's only preseason.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;580060]Guess I'm crazy because I'm not sweating what we've seen on 13 pass attempts in the preseason for the same reason if he was 13/13 the anti-JC folks would be saying, meh... it's only preseason.[/quote]

Actually, instead of being anti-JC, I would be the president of his fan club.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

There's a fine line in playing well and playing below average. If Jason Campbell hits the 10-yarder to Moss for a third down conversion or hits Kelly deep for a possible touchdown, then he would have had a good game. But he didn't when he had chances, that's the difference. Seemingly small difference, but are actually huge.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;580060]Guess I'm crazy because I'm not sweating what we've seen on 13 pass attempts in the preseason for the same reason if he was 13/13 the anti-JC folks would be saying, meh... it's only preseason.[/quote]
Your just one wild and crazy guy. You say that like people want to talk down JC and I'd say most would rather be saying how great he is looking and he is going to be great this year.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580065]There's a fine line in playing well and playing below average. If Jason Campbell hits the 10-yarder to Moss for a third down conversion or hits Kelly deep for a possible touchdown, then he would have had a good game. But he didn't when he had chances, that's the difference. Seemingly small difference, but are actually huge.[/quote]

Agreed, Good qbs make those throws.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;580066]Your just one wild and crazy guy. You say that like people want to talk down JC and I'd say most would rather be saying how great he is looking and he is going to be great this year.[/quote]

If he was tearing it up there would definitely be a few folks that would write it off as being just the preseason.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580007]I hope I am wrong, but Campbell hasn't proven me to be. Flacco is obviously a better qb. Sanchez has way more potential than Campbell. Last two super bowls we won were with average quarterbacks, hopefully we can get a wild card birth this year with a poor one.[/quote]

Poor QB:

[YT]MdWK-aam0Jo[/YT]

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Jay Schroeder;580046]thats good statistical evidence to support a point gibbs.

I hope I am proven wrong, and will drop the topic, conceding he is a middle of the pack qb, nothing less, nothing more.

I've been living in New England since 03 and am tired of hearing it from these pats fans, including my girl and her brother. Heres to success this year and beyond.

[B]Am I the only one who thought the Giants first team looked awful against the Bears last night?[/B]
They have injuries at lb and in the secondary, this gives me some hope. I think we have the talent to shut down their run game, and their wide receivers dont scare me.[/quote]

I'm not going to get into another pointless anti-JC discussion so I'll bite on your other comment:

Yes, the Bears made the Giants first team look really bad. If the Giants are not healthier on defense by Sept. 13 they could be in big trouble. The numerous injuries on all three levels of defense may make them toothless on defense. And its the defense that makes that team what it is. They still have a few weeks to heal, but if they don't, this year's opener could have a vastly different look than last year's opener.

Speaking of last year's opener, I saw Jacobs run over Urlacher twice. Landry should feel good about that.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580065][B]There's a fine line in playing well and playing below average.[/B] If Jason Campbell hits the 10-yarder to Moss for a third down conversion or hits Kelly deep for a possible touchdown, then he would have had a good game. But he didn't when he had chances, that's the difference. Seemingly small difference, but are actually huge.[/quote]The bolded statement is certainly true, but I'm going to have to go out on the limb and suggest that a 3rd down pass on the first drive in a preseason game is probably not anywhere near that line.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Can the Campbell detractors please not say that if he was 11-for-11 in the preseason instead of 4-for-13 that they would be leading the charge FOR him? C'mon, you and I both know we're dealing with a meaningless sample there. We also both know that while I know we'd all like him to succeed, your denial of him having the ability to do so is the reason we disagree. I do not deny his ability to be sucessful, you do, and there's really nothing wrong with that. But let's not act like seven completions in the preseason would make you think that, "wow, this guy has the goods."

Matty is 100% correct. If he was 11-for-11 in the preseason, there would be about 20% as many people on these Campbell threads, and "lets wait for the season" would be the mantra.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;580282]Can the Campbell detractors please not say that if he was 11-for-11 in the preseason instead of 4-for-13 that they would be leading the charge FOR him? C'mon, you and I both know we're dealing with a meaningless sample there. We also both know that while I know we'd all like him to succeed, your denial of him having the ability to do so is the reason we disagree. I do not deny his ability to be sucessful, you do, and there's really nothing wrong with that. But let's not act like seven completions in the preseason would make you think that, "wow, this guy has the goods."

[B]Matty is 100% correct. If he was 11-for-11 in the preseason, there would be about 20% as many people on these Campbell threads, and "lets wait for the season" would be the mantra.[/B][/quote]

And even if JC lights it up over the first 8 games this year, they'd be crying about the second half of last year and predicting his final-8-games demise.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

:twocents: There was nothing wrong with Campbells performance. The production just didn't match up with the rest of the positives. Like GTripp said "the sample size was too small" as well. Don't we have more pressing issues like who the back up waterboy is going to be?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;580284]And even if JC lights it up over the first 8 games this year, they'd be crying about the second half of last year and predicting his final-8-games demise.[/quote]

A very true statement. We are a better team it's just ashame when you have to prove it to your own so called fans. But that's what make this website great your allowed to voice your own opinions. HTTR.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I just don't get the way that some purposely overlook plays that Campbell failed in. what the hell is the excuse for missing moss for 10 yards and a 3rd down conversion. it's just preseason ... please. are u all saying that he misses that because it's just preseason or maybe he just didn't get enough snaps. or maybe it was against last year's 1st ranked defense (even though the defense had nothing to do with the incompletion). lets face it, whatever it was ,there really is not an excuse for this play.

And why is this play along with his other plays this preseason meaningless? the only meaningless thing for the players in preseason is the score. When the players are in there, they compete the way they would during the season. Just look at Haynesworth, or ask Brennan or Daniels if it is meaningless. Shoot even mister anti-preseason, Portis, hurt his shoulder to prevent a defensive td in a preseason game.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;580282]Can the Campbell detractors please not say that if he was 11-for-11 in the preseason instead of 4-for-13 that they would be leading the charge FOR him? C'mon, you and I both know we're dealing with a meaningless sample there. We also both know that while I know we'd all like him to succeed, your denial of him having the ability to do so is the reason we disagree. I do not deny his ability to be sucessful, you do, and there's really nothing wrong with that. But let's not act like seven completions in the preseason would make you think that, "wow, this guy has the goods."

Matty is 100% correct. If he was 11-for-11 in the preseason, there would be about 20% as many people on these Campbell threads, and "lets wait for the season" would be the mantra.[/quote]
I doubt that Tripp. IF JC was perfect in the preseason everone would be saying he finally climbed the hill or turned the corner so to speak and will be more than ready for the season to start. What you have here are a bunch of guys that are comparing last preseason to this one and are seeing some similarities. 1 for 7 on a wet night doesn't mean the end of the world, but it still didn't look great, especially since we still can't do squat in the red zone.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580358]I just don't get the way that some purposely overlook plays that Campbell failed in. [B]what the hell is the excuse for missing moss for 10 yards and a 3rd down conversion.[/B] it's just preseason ... please. are u all saying that he misses that because it's just preseason or maybe he just didn't get enough snaps. or maybe it was against last year's 1st ranked defense (even though the defense had nothing to do with the incompletion). lets face it, whatever it was ,there really is not an excuse for this play.

And why is this play along with his other plays this preseason meaningless? the only meaningless thing for the players in preseason is the score. When the players are in there, they compete the way they would during the season. Just look at Haynesworth, or [B]ask Brennan or Daniels if it is meaningless.[/B] Shoot even mister anti-preseason, Portis, hurt his shoulder to prevent a defensive td in a preseason game.[/quote]1) errant/dropped pass. Much like wild pitch vs. passed ball, it's two different sets of blame for something that is exactly the same outcome. You also mention that the defense had "nothing" to do with the incompletion, but there were two Steelers defenders in close proximity to the pass.

The play is not meaningless. It's just that, a (one) play. Who cares?

2)You already know that players who aren't expected to play much in the regular season need to value the preseason, way, way more than anyone who goes into the preseason with no competition on their job. For somebody like Campbell, it's just a tune up. What he gets from it is 100x more important than what he does in it. But for third stringers like Daniel/Brennan, what they do in it is arguably more important than what they get from it.

3) The preseason has never, ever been about first string quarterbacks. This is the fatal flaw in your argument.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;580360]I doubt that Tripp. IF JC was perfect in the preseason everone would be saying he finally climbed the hill or turned the corner so to speak and will be more than ready for the season to start. What you have here are a bunch of guys that are comparing last preseason to this one and are seeing some similarities. 1 for 7 on a wet night doesn't mean the end of the world, but it still didn't look great, [B]especially since we still can't do squat in the red zone.[/B][/quote]Good points, but it's not like we even tried to throw the ball in the red zone.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;580361]1) errant/dropped pass. Much like wild pitch vs. passed ball, it's two different sets of blame for something that is exactly the same outcome. You also mention that the defense had "nothing" to do with the incompletion, but there were two Steelers defenders in close proximity to the pass.

The play is not meaningless. It's just that, a (one) play. Who cares?

2)You already know that players who aren't expected to play much in the regular season need to value the preseason, way, way more than anyone who goes into the preseason with no competition on their job. For somebody like Campbell, it's just a tune up. What he gets from it is 100x more important than what he does in it. But for third stringers like Daniel/Brennan, what they do in it is arguably more important than what they get from it.

3) [B]The preseason has never, ever been about first string quarterbacks. This is the fatal flaw in your argument.[/B][/quote]

Did you see Brady after his first interception in his first game back from his injury? He was pissed. And I should remind you that this was preseason and that as an understatement that he is a proven winner. If he cares about how he is performing in preseason and feels he has something to prove (even in preseason) then I think your #3 statement is definitely your fatal flaw in your argument.

And who cares? Everyone should. If campbell made a play earlier or even after this play, then yeah who cares cause he made up for it by making a good play - but he didn't. The best thing that he did for a majority of the game was throwing the ball away.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

... and Brady's interception was just one meaningless preseason play - but by his reaction not meaningless to him.

You follow the lead of the leaders. Guys like Brady and Haynesworth, they are guys you follow and it certainly looks like to me, that they care how they perform on the field anytime, even in preseason.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;580398]... and Brady's interception was just one meaningless preseason play - but by his reaction not meaningless to him.

You follow the lead of the leaders. Guys like Brady and Haynesworth, they are guys you follow and it certainly looks like to me, [B]that they care how they perform on the field anytime, even in preseason.[/QUOTE[/B]]

Because they are competitors, they want to win each time they step on that field. and the way they drive themselves even in these 'meaningless' games is one of the reasons that they are great when they do count.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

In the summer months, the Redskins showed interest in Jay Cutler when Denver was shopping the disgruntled pro-bowler in early spring. After Denver’s new Head Coach, Josh McDaniels, turned down an offer from Washington that was identical to the offer made by the Chicago Bears, it was clear that other coaches and front offices were not convinced of Campbell’s future as a starting quarterback in the league.
The Redskins even showed interest in moving up in the draft to take USC’s Mark Sanchez. But the Redskins did not have the draft picks to match the Jets offer, and therefore, missed another trade opportunity to upgrade their quarterback position. This was after the Redskins approached several teams about a possible trade for Campbell, but no organization exhibited interest.
With the questions surrounding the reliability and the psyche of their quarterback, preseason is an opportunity for coaches and fans to see how Campbell will respond to the off-season mayhem.
Unfortunately, for Jason Campbell, the preseason has not pointed in the direction that he and his team were hoping.
After two preseason games, Campbell is 4/13 with 48 yards (a completion percentage of 30.8%) and has a quarterback rating of 43.1%. This puts Campbell in the No. 32 spot when compared to other starting quarterbacks’ numbers this preseason; and has Washington’s offense ranked 29th for yards, 30th for points, and 31st for passing. (By contrast, Kyle Orton’s completion percentage is 64.3% with an overall rating of 50.9%, Jay Cutler’s completion percentage is 56.5% with an overall rating of 79.1%, and Mark Sanchez has a completion rate of 50.0% with a rating of 82.3%).
There is no denying that Campbell must perform better this Friday when the Redskins travel to take on the New England Patriots. As one official in the Redskins organization remarked, “It would put a lot of peoples’ minds at ease, and I’m not just talking about the fans.”
Hopefully, for the team and Campbell, the second half of the preseason will prove to be more promising than the first. So, it appears that the need and meaningfulness of the preseason is still alive and well in Washington

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580397]Did you see Brady after his first interception in his first game back from his injury? He was pissed. And I should remind you that this was preseason and that as an understatement that he is a proven winner. If he cares about how he is performing in preseason and feels he has something to prove (even in preseason) then I think your #3 statement is definitely your fatal flaw in your argument.

And who cares? Everyone should. If campbell made a play earlier or even after this play, then yeah who cares cause he made up for it by making a good play - but he didn't. The best thing that he did for a majority of the game was throwing the ball away.[/quote]Good. Tom Brady, preseason hero. I like the ring to it.

Some quarterbacks haven't been picked off in this preseason, but you know, that's alright.

Either you understand the relative value of one quarter of preseason performance, or you don't. There's really no middle ground here.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580398]... and Brady's interception was just one meaningless preseason play - but by his reaction not meaningless to him.

You follow the lead of the leaders. Guys like Brady and Haynesworth, they are guys you follow and it certainly looks like to me, that they care how they perform on the field anytime, even in preseason.[/quote]You could probably write a book with the things you [I]aren't[/I] considering about preseason performance, but hopefully Campbell can throw a costly interception in this game, and then totally lose it so he can show real fans like you how much he cares.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Interesting discussion. The season is about to begin!!!!!!! Oh yeah, an don't forget the Skins tried to sign Vick because he is better than Campbell.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;580418]Interesting discussion. The season is about to begin!!!!!!! Oh yeah, an don't forget the Skins tried to sign Vick because he is better than Campbell.[/quote]

They also tried to talk Dilfer out of retirement...as long as we're making stuff up.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

last year, in the preseason "real game" we got demolished. We then started 6-2. I hope we light up the scoreboard. but its still preseason

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Buster;580242]Poor QB:

[YT]MdWK-aam0Jo[/YT][/quote]


haha...wtf was Gus thinking when he did that...I remember seeing that game live when I was a kid.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;580270]I'm not going to get into another pointless anti-JC discussion so I'll bite on your other comment:

Yes, the Bears made the Giants first team look really bad. If the Giants are not healthier on defense by Sept. 13 they could be in big trouble. The numerous injuries on all three levels of defense may make them toothless on defense. And its the defense that makes that team what it is. They still have a few weeks to heal, but if they don't, this year's opener could have a vastly different look than last year's opener.

Speaking of last year's opener, I saw Jacobs run over Urlacher twice. Landry should feel good about that.[/quote]

Agreed, that play was so embarrassing in last years season opener...but Jacobs is just a linebacker posing as rb...so I couldnt be too mad a Laron for that. Even though its only preseason Id love to see him put a hurting on Welker.

I honestly think we can hang with the Giants, Ross's injury sounds bad, hopefully JC can throw on his replacement. If our lines can beat theirs we stand a better chance than last year.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

gtripp i feel like you are wasting your time and energy trying to convince those who are simply irrational or too emotional.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=hooskins;580459]gtripp i feel like you are wasting your time and energy trying to convince those who are simply irrational or too emotional.[/quote]

He's wasting his time? gtripp says "The preseason has never, ever been about first string quarterbacks. This is the fatal flaw in your argument."

Then I give him an example of probably the most proven currently active (first string) quarterback that cares about his first preseason game as much as a regular season game, and I'm wasting my time?

I just turned this whole discussion around on gtripp on this one argument because I proved his [B][I][U]never, ever[/U][/I][/B] statement untrue.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580494]He's wasting his time? gtripp says "The preseason has never, ever been about first string quarterbacks. This is the fatal flaw in your argument."

Then I give him an example of probably the most proven currently active (first string) quarterback that cares about his first preseason game as much as a regular season game, and I'm wasting my time?

I just turned this whole discussion around on gtripp on this one argument because I proved his [B][I][U]never, ever[/U][/I][/B] statement untrue.[/quote]I feel your (counter-)argument was aimed at trying to prove an exception rather than a rule, but I'm really not even sure if it did that.

I didn't want to completely discredit your point about Brady, but I felt you were 1) comparing apples to oranges, 2) citing a particularly extreme example, and 3) maybe even proving my point in the process.

But it's possible that I just completely missed your point that quarterbacks who throw INTs in the preseason (not including our "struggling" QB who has neither been picked, nor taken a sack) should show some god damn fire when they do get picked. Because that's what's separates winners from losers. Post-interception tirades. Where's Jeff George when you need him?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;580503]The preseason has [B]never, ever[/B] been about first string quarterbacks. This is the fatal flaw in your argument.[/quote]

There are no exceptions to your [B][I][U]never, ever[/U][/I][/B] statement. Thats why your statement is so untrue all the way around.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;580507]There are no exceptions to your [B][I][U]never, ever[/U][/I][/B] statement. Thats why your statement is so untrue all the way around.[/quote]1) I'm not convinced that their are. I'm not talking about storylines here, I could care less about those. I'm talking situations when a well entrenched first team quarterback loses his job in the preseason to simply the "next best" guy on the roster. Perhaps Chad Hutchinson in 2005 would have been a better example than Brady, but even he only became the starter because of injury, and then completely played his way out of the job. Matt Leinart last year is a more recent example, but we don't have anything comparable to Kurt Warner.

2) Perhaps I can't prove enough knowledge about the counter-examples to take such a hard-line, absolutist postition. That's fair, I think. But I'm still having a hard time citing examples where a non-quarterback battle becomes a quarterback battle based purely on preseason performance. And until a solid example emerges, then I could technically just hold my position.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

i found my JC solace in coming to accept that I wont expect him to be anything more than decent to good. he wont lose us to many games but he wont win too many for us either. hes middle of the pack in terms of nfl qbs imo. this team can get to the playoffs with that.

go skins!!