Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;740669]That your B game?

I don't look at per game numbers for the same reason that you don't use a VCR. Per play numbers are available these days. And regardless, I wasn't aware it was a three game season.

Quarterbacks, as a group, have had a lot of success against this defense. I think the reason is that Romo/Schaub (to a lesser extent, Bradford) are good, but I'm not trying to argue against anyone who thinks our opponents in the first three games are worse than last year's draw of NYG, STL, and DET to start 1-2. I simply don't know. I suspect it's stronger this year. I don't know.

I know it's not the scheme that's causing this.[/quote]

No need to display the big guns...my C and B game are killing whatever game you've been fielding. With a post peppered with lots of don'ts you sure do a lot of knows.

I'll give you a clue, It's not the scheme, it's the coach! Let's hope he makes adjustments so that the 16 game season doesn't look like the 3 game season.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;740670]Zimmer runs a 4-3 with Cinn and I believe he ran one with Atlanta. I don't remember what he did when he was with Dallas. Anyhow that guy was great on Hard Knocks. He's a no non sense tough SOB. But Cinn also has better personel on defense than we do so I don't see him leaving, unless it's to be a HC.[/quote]

Zimmer will definitely be an HC favorite. The Cowboys job is basically is if Wade is tossed...and Cowher doesn't want it (maybe even if Cowher doesn't)

Zim ran the 3-4 in Dallas because that's what Parcells wanted so he does have some experience with it

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

What are the odds we hire a defensive consultant by mid season? I'm putting it at 50/50.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=saden1;740675]What are the odds we hire a defensive consultant by mid season? I'm putting it at 50/50.[/quote]

Are there any calling bingo or playing canasta available?

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;740676]Are there any calling bingo or playing canasta available?[/quote]

Most likely fly fishing though I wouldn't bet on their preferred method of leisure.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;740674]Zimmer will definitely be an HC favorite. The Cowboys job is basically is if Wade is tossed...and Cowher doesn't want it (maybe even if Cowher doesn't)

Zim ran the 3-4 in Dallas because that's what Parcells wanted so he does have some experience with it[/quote]

Mike Zimmer is a very good coach, but he doesn't scare as much as say...Jon Gruden. Hopefully Gruden ends up in Cleveland.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;740663]I largely agree.[B] We [U]still[/U] cant get off the field w/o the benefit of a turnover.[/B] But[B] I also know we had the same problem last year with a lot of the same personnel.[/B]

It's not because of scheme that we can't get off the field though. I can tell you that for certain. Our big plays against have dropped significantly as soon as we started playing a real defense. Our turnovers created are way up. Our sack production is consistent with last year.

Yards against per play is the only place things are worse than last year, and I showed in the Detroit/St. Louis direct comparison how even that number (at least vs. the rookie quarterback that YOU YOURSELF SAID WAS UNACCEPTABLE) was worse under the prior regime than the current one. It's got to get better to be a productive defense, but people asserting that the front seven scheme is a problem have proven to be full of it.[/quote]
This is the biggest problem, too many losers, not enough playmakers on our team. I believe a large part of our problems are lack of talent, and hold overs from a losing tradition. Now I don't believe that Haslett is a good DC by any stretch, but he doesn't have a very deeply talented roster to work with either.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=saden1;740675]What are the odds we hire a defensive consultant by mid season? I'm putting it at 50/50.[/quote]

that's not going to happen under this regime. i think it's safe to say those days are over.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;740668]"Dreaming of what a Carter, Golston, Haynesworth, and Orakpo d-line would have looked like in the 4-3."

I think it would have been a nightmare for an offense. Why fix whats not really even leaking?[/quote]


So we can go with the trends of the rest of the NFL.

I stated this earlier in this thread. Converting DEs to starting OLBs is not the way to successfully convert to the 3-4. Carter, Rak, and Zo struggle in pass coverage. AND that is putting it lightly. Rocky and Fletch are much more adapt to coverage because they are real LB.

We will continue to struggle this year, unless our DE figure out how to play in coverage.

BTW Rak's sacks all came last year when he had his had in the dirt on the opposite side of Carter and AH.

I completely agree with you. Why did this have to change?

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Rak is rushing more often than not and has one year of LB experience under his belt. Its Carter who's really stinking it up.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

I never said he isnt, he is doing it standing up instead of a three point stance

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=saden1;740665]Through 3 games the Skins have given up 1271 (423.7 avg per game), 977 passing yards (325.3 avg), and 294 yards rushing (98 avg yards) and have given up 22.3 pts a game. I don't know how these numbers can look good to you or any other sane person. Even for a beautifier like you these numbers are indefensible.

We f'ing lost to the Rams! Without their #1 receiver and #1 running back for the majority of the game and a rookie qb!

p.s. my other post was mended.[/quote]

Don't get too upset. Gtripp likes to sometimes play counterpoint to generate a rise out of people to stir the pot a bit

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;740669]
I know it's not the scheme that's causing this.[/quote]

Here's another stir the pot comment.
I would bet that the majority of folks on this board would heavily disagree that the shift from a 4-3 to a 3-4 has had [I]nothing[/I] to do with the decline in the Redskins' defensive production so far this year.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

London Fletcher actually said as much the other day. Basicaly stating that we are getting burnt in our subpackages, which is our nickel and coverage packages. These packages are not 3-4 base, but actually 4-3 based.

I don't know if we can believe him, I watched the game. All the packages are getting torched!

Here is the link. [url=http://blog.redskins.com/2010/09/27/london-fletcher-says-the-3-4-is-not-to-blame/]London Fletcher Says The 3-4 Is Not To Blame[/url]
Chalk it up to players Speak.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsnut;740733]Here's another stir the pot comment.
I would bet that the majority of folks on this board would heavily disagree that the shift from a 4-3 to a 3-4 has had [I]nothing[/I] to do with the decline in the Redskins' defensive production so far this year.[/quote]

The battle is going to rage on about 3-4 vs 4-3. With very little change in personell, the group has not performed as well in the defense they're playing now as they did in the one they played in previous years, there's no escaping that fact.

The team has limited options. They're not going to switch back to the 4-3 though some have suggested maybe a hybrid version, there are no players available that could be brought in to help.

Shanahan was asked if he felt we had the personell to make the scheme work and his answer was yes. Therefore, the only option left is to find a way to get them to perform better. The alternatives are limited, coaches can motivate and put players in the proper position to make plays, but the players have to take the initiative and demonstrate the desire needed to get the job done.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=mooby;740659]What's really concerning to me is how many points we are giving up in the second half. Against Dallas we gave up a touchdown in the second half and it would've been two touchdowns if Alex Barron wasn't such a crappy player, and we'd also be sitting at 0-3 instead of 1-2 if it wasn't for him. Against Houston we were outscored 20-7 in the second half and against the Rams we were outscored 16-3 in the second half. It's an unsettling trend that needs to be reversed if we are going to win games this season.[/quote]


I agree 100%. We have absolutely no reliable ground game to lean on, and no one other that cooley that can get open on 3rd down. Boy, that sounds really familiar doesn't it!!

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Of course the switch to the 3-4 has something to do with the defensive struggles. It's going to take some time to get everyone on the same page.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=JLee9718;740636]I think we've got the worst coached defensive team in the league! Who tells our cornerbacks to play so far off the receivers? Why is our nickel defense so bad now? Why didn't we add another cornerback for this year?[/quote]

We have the worst defense in the league, i dont know about worst coached defense. WE dont have the players to perform this defense. If Shanny would just use Haynesworth at DE and let him freaking play instead of flashing around his big ass macho ego, he could possible make a difference on the D-line. We need big run stopping lineman upfront. Which to me would be Albert, Kemo, and Daniels. I dont know if I have ever seen them on the field together, consistantly. But Shanny's big ass ego of "I'll show you" plays Holliday, Gholston, Bryant and keeps getting freaking gashed. How is a D-line unit going to get any cohesion if it is constantly being rotated in and out. How will they every get "lathered up" and in a flow of the game? Never, if it continues this way. They can't even get stretched out and in game flow before their asses are getting yanked to the sideline. I honestly am tired of the Albert saga. Everyone freaking knows that Albert is the best lineman on the team. Play his ass at DE and let him destroy guards and tackles all day. You put him on an end with Rak or Carter and that looks pretty disruptive. Also, Devin Thomas and for whatever reason Shanny doesn't want to give him a chance to play. It was proven towards the end of the year he can be a pretty damn good reciever. He is big, strong, fast and usually would go up against 2nd or 3rd corners, and I believe would have quite an impact on the passing game. More of an impact than a 40 year old grey beard that gets one target a game, or better than Roydell Williams, or Armstrong. It really makes no sense to me.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

This breaks my heart.

[quote]Despite the release of NFL icon Emmitt Smith, the Cowboys fortunes would begin to change with the introduction of Bill Parcells as head coach. Parcells would begin to reshape the team, particularly on offense, with an overhaul of the coaching staff, including former New York Giants offensive coordinator Sean Payton. Surprisingly,[B] Parcells would retain much of the defensive staff, including defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer and maintain the teams basic 4-3 defense instead of immediately installing the 3-4 defense which was a trademark of all Parcells's prior teams.[/B] This would prove a wise decision, as the [B]Cowboys would finish the season with the top ranked overall defense.[/B][/quote]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Shanahan has maintained it is his hope the team will get a little better each day. He also has made it clear it's going to take time despite the fact the team was marketed as a team poised to win now.

Therefore, at this point I think it would be safe to asume some people are confused. Win now!! It's going to take time!! are contradictory on message. Based on what we've seen so far, we all know it's going to take some time to get this team where it needs to be to be competitive on a consistent basis. We need to stop kidding ourselves, I predicted an 8-8 season because I felt a four game improvement over last year would be reasonable considering the teams personell despite the coaching change, or change in schemes.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Isn't everyone tired of the same ole message every two F'n years. Gibbs stayed for 4, and that is the longest coach we have had since Gibbs 1!! (under Danny) It is the same shit....new coach, hey its going to take time, new scheme, new players, blah blah blah. Two years go by, Danny says it was a mistake, we have OUR guy. New coach, new players, new scheme its going to take a couple of years......BOOM! in comes Danny, this guy wasn't right, but this new guy is OUR guy!! WE will win, but its going to take a year or two.

Same story every year.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=#56fanatic;740829]Isn't everyone tired of the same ole message every two F'n years. Gibbs stayed for 4, and that is the longest coach we have had since Gibbs 1!! (under Danny) It is the same shit....new coach, hey its going to take time, new scheme, new players, blah blah blah. Two years go by, Danny says it was a mistake, we have OUR guy. New coach, new players, new scheme its going to take a couple of years......BOOM! in comes Danny, this guy wasn't right, but this new guy is OUR guy!! WE will win, but its going to take a year or two.

Same story every year.[/quote]


I think you will find for the most part sans a handful of teams (Indy, NE, etc...) this is the case for most NFL teams. It is hard to win in the NFL and finding the right combo to do so is evening more difficult.

Hang in there this team is going in the right direction and is probably poised to be the most successful team under Snyder's watch. you will see.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;740827]Shanahan has maintained it is his hope the team will get a little better each day. He also has made it clear it's going to take time despite the fact the team was marketed as a team poised to win now.

Therefore, at this point I think it would be safe to asume some people are confused. Win now!! It's going to take time!! are contradictory on message. Based on what we've seen so far, we all know it's going to take some time to get this team where it needs to be to be competitive on a consistent basis. We need to stop kidding ourselves, I predicted an 8-8 season because I felt a four game improvement over last year would be reasonable considering the teams personell despite the coaching change, or change in schemes.[/quote]

You can thank Shanahan for wasting the talents of many on our front 4. Carter had some value, now he has none.
Jarmon had some value, now he has none.
Same thing with AH. He DID make plays last year. Now he's reduced to a situational pass rusher.
Golston won't last long as a 3-4 DE. He could barely get a decent push as a 4-3 DT.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;740821]This breaks my heart.[/quote]

Parcells knew defense. All Shanahan knows is offense.

He can't be held blameless for AH's offseason spat because that entire spat was due to the implementation of the 3-4. Who wanted the 3-4?

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;740861]You can thank Shanahan for wasting the talents of many on our front 4. Carter had some value, now he has none.
Jarmon had some value, now he has none.
Same thing with AH. He DID make plays last year. Now he's reduced to a situational pass rusher.
Golston won't last long as a 3-4 DE. He could barely get a decent push as a 4-3 DT.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.....As a matter of fact I've made the exact same argument myself. I was never in favor of the mad dash to switch schemes, but it is what it is and others are not lost on the point you make.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;740821]This breaks my heart.[/quote]

Then the Cowboys drafted Ware and made him the cornerstone for the transition to the 3-4 Parcells wanted. The feeling here, right or wrong, is that we drafted our 3-4 cornerstone last year in Brian Orakpo

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;740832]I think you will find for the most part sans a handful of teams (Indy, NE, etc...) this is the case for most NFL teams. It is hard to win in the NFL and finding the right combo to do so is evening more difficult.

Hang in there this team is going in the right direction and is probably poised to be the most successful team under Snyder's watch. you will see.[/quote]

I kind of have a hard time agreeing with you. Lets see what stability brings and what teams have it. Eagles..hmmm..winners every year, one of the youngest teams in the NFL. NE, Colts (hired in house, been with organization for a while, tons of draft picks) Baltimore, Ozzie Newsome in the same postion for years and gets quality picks and players every single year in the draft, New Orleans, took a two, three years to get players, but won a SB, Green bay another one that is pretty damn good with stability at the coaching spot. Look at the teams that keep their coaches in place for a number of years and let them learn instead of the owners (Danny) jumping in and getting rid of them after two years. Minnesota another one, hell they wanted to fire Chilly a couple of years ago, actually they said the same thing about McCarthy in Green Bay after a couple of years.

My point is, its getting old of a constant rebuilding effort even though they continuously tell us they are NOT rebuilding. I would be more patient if they said we are going young, develop young talent and grow our players than I am with what happens every year here. it is getting old.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740904]Shanahan should be here for at least 5 years, and hopefully Kyle can be groomed to take over. Yes the constant reshuffling of coaches has been frustrating but it is what it is. And hopefully we're entering a period of prolonged stability. Bitching about it now though is what's getting tired to me.[/quote]


We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=#56fanatic;740906]We were suppose to have stability when Gibbs was here. He brought in GW to succeed him. We were suppose to hire GW to run things, that is why he came here to learn from Gibbs and become a better coach. Stability was preached the entire time Gibbs was here. But as soon as Gibbs decided he had enough, Danny did the Danny and hired some dumb ass named Zorn[/quote]


Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;740914]Gibbs up and left early. the teams mentioned above have kept the folks they have kept because they are successful/good.

Your argument sounds like you want us to keep Zorn, would a decade of losing seasons been better then firing him? Well at least we could say we consistently stayed with one guy.

This league is allow about change, rarely does any head couch last longer then 5 years.[/quote]

That wasn't what I was saying. My point was we axe coaches after two seasons without giving them a chance to actually do something. Do something with a good GM, a good talent evaluator, and players that fit that coaches style. It was all about Danny and Vinny picking players for the coach which had no business doing the evaluations in the first place. Now, hopefully we will have some continuity with Shanny and son, but we'll have to wait and see. I would have thought when Gibbs left that we would have kept things the same hiring GW, but Danny didn't like that idea and ended up with Zorn because no one else wanted to take the job.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Well never know what would have happened if GW took over after Gibbs...but if you base this on historical head coaching history...it wouldn't have been good....just like Haslett is not doing well as a defensive coordinator.
But Zorn had no history, so why not?....it was a crap shoot...emphasis on CRAP.

What bothers me is that Shanny seems to be locked in to making the same mistakes he always has....hiring bad defensive coordinators and churning them.

Also, not playing your top talent in their best position to win is kinda stupid if you ask me.

[B]Didn't Carter and Orakpo have the most sacks in decades playing with Haynesworth in the 4-3?....[/B]imagine if we had another stud DT to add to that and stuck with the 4-3...hell...all we really needed was a FS and an OLB for that scheme.
...instead...we change essentially all the front seven to different positions and bench Daniels, Haynesworth...then we neuter Carter, keep Orakpo in a less than ideal LB spot, move an outside LB inside, and make am undersided MLB (fletch) to deal with huge Guards AND Tackles instead of a center and an occasional FB.
Come to think of it...there is only a single defensive player that has been put in a position that maximizes their natural talents....that is Landry.
Tell me where I am wrong.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Crying over spilled milk at this point.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740930]Crying over spilled milk at this point.[/quote]

Obviously you don't know how much milk costs here.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

And don't give me that...we needed more turnovers crap....
I would gladly deal with no turnovers if we could force teams to punt occasionally.

After all...it is statistically far easier to force a punt than to force a turnover.
Forcing turnovers usually means taking big risks. At some point you need to assess if those risks in big plays are paying off....they certainly are not.

If you get a couple turnovers, but yield 350-500 yards a game and 30 points...it doesn't mean jack.

What is the worst way to lose defensively?
- because you gave up 500 yards and 30+ points
- because you got zero sacks and gave up 300 yards and 20 points
- because you got zero turnovers and gave up 300 yards and 20 points

I'd rather consistantly stop someone, rather than hope for some occassional big play like a sack or turnover to stop them...because teams that don't make mistakes dont give up sacks or turnovers anyways....you need to BEAT them...not trick them.

I know...talent, talent...but c'mon...freaking Phillip Daniels can stop the damn run and he is benched, Haynesworth essentially makes our defense 11 vs 10 because they need 2 to block him....and he is benched...Orakpo?...Fletcher?...probowlers playing for Blache!
McIntosh aint half bad and Landry is a SS beast...I bet if we played straight up we'd do better.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740930]Crying over spilled milk at this point.[/quote]

Matty...perhaps...but spilled milk is considered gone....there is nothing other than stubborness that would prevent the Skins to go back to a 4-3 the majority of the time to maximize the defensive talent that we have.
It is called humility and good coaching....something Gibbs would have done but unlikely to be done by Shanahan.

Gibbs 2 wasn't great...but he did take a really crappy team and get them to the playoffs twice...getting the best out of your roster is what the best coaches do. Shanny needs to prove he can do that and within a week or two to give this team some hope again.

I also need to see this team fight for their coach and vice versa...they did it for Gibbs...and he took the heat for them....lets see if Shanny can create a TEAM again

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

It's not as if they're lining up every single play in a 3-4. They've been mixing it up in different formations

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

It's not just the base 3-4..it is who is playing what position on the field...Carter in coverage for example is idiotic...considering that is exactly where he failed before we got him playing his best role.

Check out this good read from a Philly fan's perspective.
If skins fans see the problem, it is fairly obvious...but when our competitors fan's see what is going on....it is just plain...DUH!

[url=http://www.gcobb.com/2010/09/29/jim-haslett-led-redskins-defense-cant-stop-anybody/]Jim Haslett-Led Redskins Defense Can’t Stop Anybody | GCOBB.COM[/url]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Talking about Gibbs, Williams, and even Zorn at this point is just a waste of time and I really don't understand why we need to keep rehashing the past, especially with a new front office and coaching staff in place. We made some positive changes, let's give it some time to work.

It's just totally absurd to me that we're 3 games in to this new regime and people are so up in arms over things. Did anyone really expect a smooth transition to a new offense, new QB, new defense, and 1/3 of the roster turned over? Where did the last few years get us anyway? 4-12 last year? A top 10 defense that created little sacks or turnovers and had people pulling their hair out all season?

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;740943]It's not as if they're lining up every single play in a 3-4. They've been mixing it up in different formations[/quote]


yeah, that one down lineman crap I have seen way too much.