Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770135]One of the recurring myths in this thread is that Donovan McNabb's trade value was somehow through the roof up to this point. At best we might have been looking at a 4th or 5th round pick if he'd played the season out as our starter. That might even be pushing it.

His decline was apparent to anyone paying attention much earlier than this. In fact, I remember listening to Trent Dilfer on Colin Cowherd's show talking about McNabb having his worst season as a pro. That was before the benching in Detroit. We were never going to cash in on a bucket full of draft picks thanks to McNabb's performance this year, folks.[/quote]

I think that had his name been anything but Donovan McNabb he'd have been benched a long time ago.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770091]I'll predict that Carolina passes on the opportunity to draft Ryan Mallett, taking instead A.J. Green first overall. Mallett gets drafted by the Bengals at no. 2.[/quote]

Ryan Mallet reminds me of David Klingler.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skins89moss;770121]Don't worry about Shanny losing the locker room cause next year it wont be many of the same players coming back.[/quote]

Losing the locker from from a bunch of guys that can't play? lol. I don't care if he's lost the locker room. I just care that he seems to have the communication skills of my toe nail. Gotta show DM some more respect.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=irish;770140]I think that had his name been anything but Donovan McNabb he'd have been benched a long time ago.[/quote]

I'd agree, I'm sure after the Lions game Shanahan probably wanted to give Grossman a shot. It didn't take him 13 weeks to realize this wasn't working out, he knew this a long time ago.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Had Rex not been clobbered on the first snap, and did anything remotely positive, this discussion would have happened 6 weeks ago. Maybe Rex really couldn't prove himself in the bye week.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

If Rex proves himself now, i think fans will be even more mad that it took Shanahan 6 weeks to make a QB change that could have resulted in them making the playoffs.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I wonder what the reaction on this board would have been had this been around when Gibbs used to switch up Schroeder and Williams. Not saying it's the same thing but I'm always curious about that

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770169]I wonder what the reaction on this board would have been had this been around when Gibbs used to switch up Schroeder and Williams. Not saying it's the same thing but I'm always curious about that[/quote]

I'm sure there would have been a ton of controversy about that. I would think most would have been on DW's side, classier guy, always seemed to come through in the clutch. But that's easy to say in hindsight.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770172]I'm sure there would have been a ton of controversy about that. I would think most would have been on DW's side, classier guy, always seemed to come through in the clutch. But that's easy to say in hindsight.[/quote]

How about benching Williams for Rypien?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770174]How about benching Williams for Rypien?[/quote]

Yeah that would have been a shit storm, especially with how erratic Ryp was before he put it all together

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

It's amazing when you think about the days before the internet and sports fan message boards.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

The last QB to wear 8 for us played very well in his time as a starter.. Who knows maybe Rex does the same, the guy did play in a SuperBowl.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770162]I'd agree, I'm sure after the Lions game Shanahan probably wanted to give Grossman a shot. It didn't take him 13 weeks to realize this wasn't working out, he knew this a long time ago.[/quote]

He did. I also dont think Shanny owes DM anything more than what he has given him, a shot at playing. DM didnt make the most of his chance and now Shanny says its time to change it up, that's what coaches do.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I think this move is more evidence that McNabb wasn't Shanahans idea to begin with.

No one wants to hear it, but McNabb had Snyder written all over it. So did Larry Johnson and Willy Parker, Larry Johnson got what a half cup of coffee as a starter and a quick dismissal the moment he did something stupid?

Let put it this way, lets play a match game keep an open mind lets assign past history to Snyder and Shanahan, you put the historical tendency or move in the correct collumn.

Shanahan:

Snyder:


There's our Shanahan column and Snyder column now match these up and put them in each column:

Tried to talk Berry Sanders out of retirement
Turns unheralded/late round/undrafted RB's into 1000 yard runners
Tried to lure Rickey Williams
Signs Jeff George and pushes him on the coach
Doesn't sign many big name free agents
Signs big name free agents all the time
Gets the better in trades
Overpays in trades
Drafts QB's tries to develop them
Wants every QB flavor of the month (Cutler/Sanches)
Never signed/traded for big name splashy vet QB's
Brought in several aging name QB's
Facinated by over the hill RB's
Signed Shawn Alexander
Traded for TJ Duckett
Overpaid for Clinton Portis

now match um up.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770176]It's amazing when you think about the days before the internet and sports fan message boards.[/quote]

you mean back when fans like us just shouted long strings of invective laced analysis at the TV screen? Instead of arguing with each other about it? :argue: :D

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Bucket;770124]Many of the top coaches run their teams like Shanny is now. He is looking for the most prefessional and devotred players to play for his team.

Patriots
Steelers
Colts

All of these teams run the same way, and Shanny is doing no different in Washington. It's his way! To many times have we brought Vets in here to collect paychecks on the low end of their career.

We had a chance to bring a known great QB from our OWN division, and we made a move on him. We gave up some picks because what else did we have to offer that the eagles wanted? We have little talent on both sides of the ball, and are ina big rebuilding stage.

Shanny is looking for devoted players who are here to help build a TEAM. Not just a bunch of broken down vets. Mcnabb didn't work out, and now we move on.. Shit happens.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Rex does this week. It can't get any worse then what we've already seen? I was watching the breakdown of film on NFL.com and saw how many open WR Mcnabb has been missing all year. He missed a wide open Moss in the endzone last week and foreced a low pass into double coverage instead. He wasn't doing that shit in Philly.. He can't learn the offense, and Rex thinks he can.

Give Rex a shot, and let's see what he can do. We are 5-8... Not 8-5[/quote]

I think your post makes way to much sense to survive these chaotic times. One of us may have to move to the drunk thread......

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Okay no ones gonna actually match them up so let me continue my narrative:

[B]Snyder:[/B]
Tried to talk Berry Sanders out of retirement
Tried to lure Rickey Williams
Signs Jeff George and pushes him on the coach
Signs big name free agents all the time
Overpays in trades
Wants every QB flavor of the month (Cutler/Sanches)
Brought in several aging name QB's
Facinated by over the hill RB's
Signed Shawn Alexander
Traded for TJ Duckett
Overpaid for Clinton Portis

[B]Shanahan:[/B]
Turns unheralded/late round/undrafted RB's into 1000 yard runners
Doesn't sign many big name free agents
Gets the better in trades
Drafts QB's tries to develop them
Never signed/traded for big name splashy vet QB's

Now lets put McNabb Willy Parker and Larry Johnson on one column or the other...

[B]Shanahan:[/B]
Turns unheralded/late round/undrafted RB's into 1000 yard runners
Doesn't sign many big name free agents
Gets the better in trades
Drafts QB's tries to develop them
Never signed/traded for big name splashy vet QB's
[I]Traded 2nd and 4th round picks for McNabb
Signed Larry Johnson
Signed Willy Parker[/I]

OPPS time to play "one of these is not like the other"! On the other hand:

[B]Snyder:[/B]
Tried to talk Berry Sanders out of retirement
Tried to lure Rickey Williams
Signs Jeff George and pushes him on the coach
Signs big name free agents all the time
Overpays in trades
Wants every QB flavor of the month (Cutler/Sanches)
Brought in several aging name QB's
Facinated by over the hill RB's
Signed Shawn Alexander
Traded for TJ Duckett
Overpaid for Clinton Portis
Traded 2nd and 4th round picks for McNabb
Signed Larry Johnson
Signed Willy Parker

Ahhhh perfect fit....

Yes I know many of you are holding out hope that BA and Shanahan represented Snyder "turning a corner" "learning his lesson" or "handing over the reigns to the football people".

But I can't help but conclude that all circumstantial evidence and both persons "MO's" -- Especially given how McNabb and both runners have been handled by Shanahan -- point to Snyder's fingers still in the cookie Jar.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=irish;770185]He did. I also dont think Shanny owes DM anything more than what he has given him, a shot at playing. DM didnt make the most of his chance and now [B]Shanny says its time to change it up, that's what coaches do.[/B][/quote]

YES, that is what good coaches do.....

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

The same 3-ring circus as always. I don't have any great hopes for tomorrow, but I admit I'm curious to see how Rex fares.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

While Shanahan is at it, he might as well trade this year and next year's draft for Andrew Luck. Why not since the house is being cleaned thoroughly.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

John Clayton said this morning on SC that Shanny could try and make a move for jay cutler, I doubt Chicago trades him even though he hasn't played that great. I'm all for drafting a rookie but I think luck is the only day 1 starter. Like I said yesterday I wouldn't mind seeing orton here

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Claytons been taking Cutler for a few months now

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Here we go with the Snyder did it stuff. Ugh. :doh:

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=44 70 chip;770193]Okay no ones gonna actually match them up so let me continue my narrative:

[B]Snyder:[/B]
Tried to talk Berry Sanders out of retirement
Tried to lure Rickey Williams
Signs Jeff George and pushes him on the coach
Signs big name free agents all the time
Overpays in trades
Wants every QB flavor of the month (Cutler/Sanches)
Brought in several aging name QB's
Facinated by over the hill RB's
Signed Shawn Alexander
Traded for TJ Duckett
Overpaid for Clinton Portis

[B]Shanahan:[/B]
Turns unheralded/late round/undrafted RB's into 1000 yard runners
Doesn't sign many big name free agents
Gets the better in trades
Drafts QB's tries to develop them
Never signed/traded for big name splashy vet QB's

Now lets put McNabb Willy Parker and Larry Johnson on one column or the other...

[B]Shanahan:[/B]
Turns unheralded/late round/undrafted RB's into 1000 yard runners
Doesn't sign many big name free agents
Gets the better in trades
Drafts QB's tries to develop them
Never signed/traded for big name splashy vet QB's
[I]Traded 2nd and 4th round picks for McNabb
Signed Larry Johnson
Signed Willy Parker[/I]

OPPS time to play "one of these is not like the other"! On the other hand:

[B]Snyder:[/B]
Tried to talk Berry Sanders out of retirement
Tried to lure Rickey Williams
Signs Jeff George and pushes him on the coach
Signs big name free agents all the time
Overpays in trades
Wants every QB flavor of the month (Cutler/Sanches)
Brought in several aging name QB's
Facinated by over the hill RB's
Signed Shawn Alexander
Traded for TJ Duckett
Overpaid for Clinton Portis
Traded 2nd and 4th round picks for McNabb
Signed Larry Johnson
Signed Willy Parker

Ahhhh perfect fit....

Yes I know many of you are holding out hope that BA and Shanahan represented Snyder "turning a corner" "learning his lesson" or "handing over the reigns to the football people".

But I can't help but conclude that all circumstantial evidence and both persons "MO's" -- Especially given how McNabb and both runners have been handled by Shanahan -- point to Snyder's fingers still in the cookie Jar.[/quote]
Oh? It's not like Shanahan is flawless.
The entire Cleveland Browns defensive line.
Ron Dayne
The second highest-payroll in NFL history in 2001. (We have the record and the third-highest.


BTW, if Snyder really had a say, Haynesworth would not have been suspended.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Also, Gibbs wanted Duckett, JC, Brunell, etc. He wanted to call the shots and he got it.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;770206]Oh? It's not like Shanahan is flawless.
The entire Cleveland Browns defensive line.
Ron Dayne
The second highest-payroll in NFL history in 2001. (We have the record and the third-highest.


[B]BTW, if Snyder really had a say, Haynesworth would not have been suspended[/B].[/quote]

Nuff said right there.

Not too hard to see that Snyder isn't pulling the strings anymore.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Also, Shanahan was ACTUALLY penalized for being IN VIOLATION of the salary cap. Us? At least we avoided THAT. 'nuff said

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;769931]After thinking it over for a few hours I'm in the boat of hey why not?

McNabb clearly isn't the answer here for Shanahan, so why not evaluate the other guys?

I heard Kevin Sheehan make a good point and I'm paraphrasing here, doesn't matter if you're a bad guy like AH or a great guy like DM, if you're not getting it done Shanahan is going to move on, and he doesn't care who's feelings he hurts.[/quote]

Matty:

Sounds good - - but if you name is Kyle Shanahan can you stay around even if you "aren't getting it done"...?

Just asking...

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Snyder has nothing to do with player decisions anymore folks chill out

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;770212]Matty:

Sounds good - - but if you name is Kyle Shanahan can you stay around even if you "aren't getting it done"...?

Just asking...[/quote]

If you don't have the talent to execute the plays it doesn't matter what plays are called. KS didn't turn into a bum overnight. He knows what he's doing when it comes to running an offense.

Would you fire him? You think he's a problem?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

No way Shanny is fired an SS do you think the skins would consider trading for cutler?? I hope not but who knows with this team anymore

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770214]If you don't have the talent to execute the plays it doesn't matter what plays are called. KS didn't turn into a bum overnight. He knows what he's doing when it comes to running an offense.

Would you fire him? You think he's a problem?[/quote]


Absolutely not.

But if you don't have the talent to execute the plays, then how will you be able to "evaluate" your #2 and #2 QBs to see if they can cut it?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;770206]Oh? It's not like Shanahan is flawless.
The entire Cleveland Browns defensive line.
Ron Dayne
The second highest-payroll in NFL history in 2001. (We have the record and the third-highest.


BTW, if Snyder really had a say, Haynesworth would not have been suspended.[/quote]

Don't forget Maurice Clarett.

Just read thru this entire thread... WOW!

Let me pose a few questions here:


1. After reading hundreds of posts here, I doubt that the name Bruce Allen was mentioned a dozen times. If he is the General Manager - - the guy so many folks around here were so happy to see come on board - - and an actual participant in personnel decisions, why hasn't anyone mentioned his name? Might it be that he is no more an actual GM than Francis the Talking Mule? If he really is a General Manager and a "player" in team decisions, then what are his thoughts and what was his role in the handling of the Haynesworth debacle and now the McNabb controversy? :sleep:

My take: Bruce Allen's biggest responsibility is making sure the Gatorade jugs are full on game day... :twocents:

2. In his tenure as the MOFO in Washington, Mike Shanahan has had three "sticky" personnel situations to handle. Which one did he handle with the greatest "aplomb"[INDENT]
[B]A. Joey Galloway [/B]- - took almost 3 mos to realize he can't play anymore and to screw up the courage to jettison him. :confused-

[B]B. Albert Haynesworth [/B]- -that was a goat rope from the first time the two of them sat down together. :nono:

[B]C. Donovan McNabb [/B]- - twice actually, the Detroit benching and the current benching that have been handled so constructively. :censored: [/INDENT]

3. If you were the GM - - a real GM not a pretend GM - - for another NFL team and you wanted McNabb for your team next year, would the events of this week make you want to hurry up and make a pre-emptively high offer to trade for him - - or make you want to low-ball the Skins because you know the probablyity that McNabb is coming back next year is really low? :(


4. Who brings more in trade value now - - Hayneswworth or McNabb? Would either one bring anything more than a conditional 5th round pick? :Flush:


5. If Rex lights it up this week and leads the Skins to a last minute win over the Cowboys by a score of 42-37 by throwing his fifth TD pass of the day in the final seconds, the Shanahans might think he is worth starting next year. Therefore, if the Redskins start Rex Grossman for 14 games next season (don't know if there will be 16 games or 18 games), what is the over/under on victories? My O/U would be 5.5. :doh:


6. Shanahan said that making McNabb the #3 QB starting with the Jax game was because he wanted to see how John Beck handled himself as the #2 QB. On the assumption that the #1 QB is not carried off the field on a gurney, exactly what does the #2 QB do that the #3 QB does not do? Does the #2 QB wear a baseball cap and the #3 QB wears only a visor? :confused:


7. And the biggest question of all:


[B][COLOR="Red"]R You In?[/COLOR][/B]

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

^ good post and yes I'm in and always will be for my redskins! I've said since day 1 I trust Ba/Ms to turn this around. Im not happy with the Mcnabb situation but shit happens

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I don't think McNabb's been getting the job done this year. It seems like he throws an awful lot of passes in the ground. However, he's not the total reason for the Redskins' failure. We haven't had a good running game, a good offensive line, a reliable kicker....plus our defense has given up tons of points.

No matter who's to blame, Shanahan's handling of both Haynesworth and McNabb, leaves an enormous amount to be desired.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770214]If you don't have the talent to execute the plays it doesn't matter what plays are called. KS didn't turn into a bum overnight. He knows what he's doing when it comes to running an offense.

Would you fire him? You think he's a problem?[/quote]

Totally agree, when KS had talent in Houston his O worked just fine. He doesnt have much talent here so its a wish and a prayer that something he calls will work here.

The coaching staff isnt the problem with the Skins, the players that have never done anything but underachieve and complain are.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I don't think the Shanahan nepotism argument holds a lot of water. This is the first year of a new system and if KS was not the son of MS, we'd still be giving him more time.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;770221]Just read thru this entire thread... WOW!

Let me pose a few questions here:


1. After reading hundreds of posts here, I doubt that the name Bruce Allen was mentioned a dozen times. If he is the General Manager - - the guy so many folks around here were so happy to see come on board - - and an actual participant in personnel decisions, why hasn't anyone mentioned his name? Might it be that he is no more an actual GM than Francis the Talking Mule? If he really is a General Manager and a "player" in team decisions, then what are his thoughts and what was his role in the handling of the Haynesworth debacle and now the McNabb controversy? :sleep:

My take: Bruce Allen's biggest responsibility is making sure the Gatorade jugs are full on game day... :twocents:

2. In his tenure as the MOFO in Washington, Mike Shanahan has had three "sticky" personnel situations to handle. Which one did he handle with the greatest "aplomb"[INDENT]
[B]A. Joey Galloway [/B]- - took almost 3 mos to realize he can't play anymore and to screw up the courage to jettison him. :confused-

[B]B. Albert Haynesworth [/B]- -that was a goat rope from the first time the two of them sat down together. :nono:

[B]C. Donovan McNabb [/B]- - twice actually, the Detroit benching and the current benching that have been handled so constructively. :censored: [/INDENT]3. If you were the GM - - a real GM not a pretend GM - - for another NFL team and you wanted McNabb for your team next year, would the events of this week make you want to hurry up and make a pre-emptively high offer to trade for him - - or make you want to low-ball the Skins because you know the probablyity that McNabb is coming back next year is really low? :(


4. Who brings more in trade value now - - Hayneswworth or McNabb? Would either one bring anything more than a conditional 5th round pick? :Flush:


5. If Rex lights it up this week and leads the Skins to a last minute win over the Cowboys by a score of 42-37 by throwing his fifth TD pass of the day in the final seconds, the Shanahans might think he is worth starting next year. Therefore, if the Redskins start Rex Grossman for 14 games next season (don't know if there will be 16 games or 18 games), what is the over/under on victories? My O/U would be 5.5. :doh:


6. Shanahan said that making McNabb the #3 QB starting with the Jax game was because he wanted to see how John Beck handled himself as the #2 QB. On the assumption that the #1 QB is not carried off the field on a gurney, exactly what does the #2 QB do that the #3 QB does not do? Does the #2 QB wear a baseball cap and the #3 QB wears only a visor? :confused:


7. And the biggest question of all:


[B][COLOR=Red]R You In?[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

I don't think it was any big secret from the start, Allen is the GM but Shanahan has the final say when it comes to football decisions. MS is also the team president if you recall.

Despite this season there will be a few teams with interest in McNabb. Miami, Minnesota, San Fran, Arizona, etc. Someone could give up a 4th or a 5th.

Someone could give up a 5th or 6th for AH, probably the Titans. Probably some sort of conditional pick based on performance.

Rex could end up the starter next year, but only until a rookie is ready by mid-season or so.

The #2 QB takes snaps in practice with the first team and is probably more directly involved with the game planning. The #3 usually runs the scout team.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;770221]Just read thru this entire thread... WOW!

Let me pose a few questions here:


1. After reading hundreds of posts here, I doubt that the name Bruce Allen was mentioned a dozen times. If he is the General Manager - - the guy so many folks around here were so happy to see come on board - - and an actual participant in personnel decisions, why hasn't anyone mentioned his name? Might it be that he is no more an actual GM than Francis the Talking Mule? If he really is a General Manager and a "player" in team decisions, then what are his thoughts and what was his role in the handling of the Haynesworth debacle and now the McNabb controversy? :sleep:

My take: Bruce Allen's biggest responsibility is making sure the Gatorade jugs are full on game day... :twocents:

2. In his tenure as the MOFO in Washington, Mike Shanahan has had three "sticky" personnel situations to handle. Which one did he handle with the greatest "aplomb"[INDENT][B]A. Joey Galloway [/B]- - took almost 3 mos to realize he can't play anymore and to screw up the courage to jettison him. :confused-

[B]B. Albert Haynesworth [/B]- -that was a goat rope from the first time the two of them sat down together. :nono:

[B]C. Donovan McNabb [/B]- - twice actually, the Detroit benching and the current benching that have been handled so constructively. :censored:
[/INDENT]3. If you were the GM - - a real GM not a pretend GM - - for another NFL team and you wanted McNabb for your team next year, would the events of this week make you want to hurry up and make a pre-emptively high offer to trade for him - - or make you want to low-ball the Skins because you know the probablyity that McNabb is coming back next year is really low? :(


4. Who brings more in trade value now - - Hayneswworth or McNabb? Would either one bring anything more than a conditional 5th round pick? :Flush:


5. If Rex lights it up this week and leads the Skins to a last minute win over the Cowboys by a score of 42-37 by throwing his fifth TD pass of the day in the final seconds, the Shanahans might think he is worth starting next year. Therefore, if the Redskins start Rex Grossman for 14 games next season (don't know if there will be 16 games or 18 games), what is the over/under on victories? My O/U would be 5.5. :doh:


6. [B]Shanahan said that making McNabb the #3 QB starting with the Jax game was because he wanted to see how John Beck handled himself as the #2 QB. On the assumption that the #1 QB is not carried off the field on a gurney, exactly what does the #2 QB do that the #3 QB does not do? Does the #2 QB wear a baseball cap and the #3 QB wears only a visor? :confused:[/B]


7. And the biggest question of all:


[B][COLOR=red]R You In?[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

Is it not just...........mediaspeak for the masses?
Here's my line-up with the QB's this week blah, blah, bla, etc.
Would you be happier if McInt were number #2? If so....why?
I don't get all the "Grassy knoll" conspiratorial analysis?