Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;788168]Your point doesn't remain. If that's the case, Olympic athletes have 1st round talent to be a WR/OL/DL. Why aren't they drafted? Maybe because of ..I dunno...OTHER FACTORS?? Mayock even said that he himself would NOT take him in the first round (the same with JaMarcus R.) based off the other factors. He's a first round talent in terms of of being a incredible athlete and potential, but he's not a 1st round talent in terms of a polished QB. Does that mean nobody is going to take him? Sure there will be, just like the Raiders took JaMarcus Russell with the first pick. Idiots will always be lured by that "shiny diamond" that always ends up being a polished turd.

There is nothing he's done so far that can translate well to the NFL. Shotgun formations? One read and go offense? Running more than he passes? One year in college football? If you are trying to convince me of his "upside" and "potential" to be a great QB, then you are wasting your time. I know he has all the "potential" and "upside" there is in a QB. I've also gone on record saying that the first round isn't the place you take "projects" either, and that the person being drafted in the 1st round are generally projected day 1 starters. Do you see Cam Newton as a day 1 starter? I sure as hell don't. More like a project who'll need 1-3 years at best.


Also, [B]Bruce Campbell was a slated 1st round "talent" to be a dominate LT in the NFL,[/B] yet he didn't go till the 4th round. Why is that? It's because teams don't want to waste a 1st round pick on a project who isn't going to help the team immediately.[/quote]

While this is true, he also had a horrible pro day or combine. He had rumored problems with his reflexes and such. The real difference though, is by position. Quarterback is one of the few positions where a best-case scenario means that he isn't playing in his rookie season. When a team is drafting their future LT in the first 20 or so selections, they most likely need him to be able to step into the fire right away.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[U][URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81eab3eb/Should-Newton-start-right-away"]NFL Videos: Should Newton start right away?[/URL]

The CAM talk is heating up with the Redskins
[/U]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;788168]Your point doesn't remain.[/quote]Its almost universally accepted that Cam Newton possesses 1st round talent.
(The almost being you)

[quote]Mayock even said that he himself would NOT take him in the first round[/quote]B.S.
Find a quote where Mayock has said that.

[quote]He's a first round talent in terms of of being a incredible athlete and potential, but he's not a 1st round talent in terms of a polished QB.[/quote]You realize now that you have just [U][I][B]changed[/B][/I][/U] your position?
From 'not a 1st round talent' to '1st round talent in terms of a polished QB'

[quote]If you are trying to convince me of his "upside" and "potential" to be a great QB, then you are wasting your time.[/quote]
I'm not trying to convince you anything.
You decided to challenge the following fairly obvious statement:
[quote=30gut;787088]I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else.[/quote]

[quote]Do you see Cam Newton as a day 1 starter? I sure as hell don't. More like a project who'll need 1-3 years at best.[/quote]
I think it would be best for Cam to sit at least til midway through the season.

But, could he be a day 1 starter? Depends on where he goes, their OC, the talent on offense and their opening game schedule.

I think its also important to note that [I][B]Gil Brandt [/B][/I]thinks Cam Newton should be the top pick in the [B][I]draft[/I][/B].

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Right now I would say if CAM is there at 10 we will draft him

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Vinny said he wouldn't draft Cam, so that means we should definitely draft him.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

^ lol Vinny got us Orakpo so I'll give him a little pass

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;788186]You realize now that you have just [U][I][B]changed[/B][/I][/U] your position?
From 'not a 1st round talent' to '1st round talent in terms of a polished QB'
[/quote]

I haven't changed anything. When I said "he's a first round grade based of being a great athlete and potential", I wasn't saying I thought he was. That's why the other draft pundits have him listed. It's also why they had Bruce Campbell listed so high as even going in the top 10. Why? All because of the "potential" and "upside".

Those are two of the worst words you want to hear about a draft prospect in the first round. The words you want to mostly hear are "immediate impact". So in conclusion, if you are ranking a 1st round grade on a kid based on "potential" and "upside" instead of polished products, then chances are you are going to blow your pick and set your team back 3-5 years.

Notice teams like the Patriots don't take "projects" like those of Cam Newton in their drafts? You see the Oakland Raiders doing it constantly (beyward-hey, russell, gallery) and how has it worked out for them?

Goes back to my point that you don't draft projects (that huge) in the first round, and somebody with as many flags as he is has to be considered a "project".

At this point, we will agree to disagree, but I'll leave it with this. If any team drafts him in the first round expecting him to make a immediate impact, then they will be set back years. This kid is going to fall flat on his face. The reg flags are there, and stupid teams will ignore them.

1) Character issues
2) Questionable intelligence (cheating verifies this)
3) No experience in reading defenses
4) No experience in pro-style offense or taking snaps from center
5) Accuracy issues
6) Footwork issues
7) Dedication to football questioned (he's a entertainer per his words)


1) big arm
2) great athelete


Yup, I'd say the bad outweighs the good by a huge margin.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;788212]I haven't changed anything. When I said "he's a first round grade based of being a great athlete and potential", I wasn't saying I thought he was. That's why the other draft pundits have him listed. It's also why they had Bruce Campbell listed so high as even going in the top 10. Why? All because of the "potential" and "upside".

Those are two of the worst words you want to hear about a draft prospect in the first round. The words you want to mostly hear are "immediate impact". So in conclusion, if you are ranking a 1st round grade on a kid based on "potential" and "upside" instead of polished products, then chances are you are going to blow your pick and set your team back 3-5 years.

Notice teams like the Patriots don't take "projects" like those of Cam Newton in their drafts? You see the Oakland Raiders doing it constantly (beyward-hey, russell, gallery) and how has it worked out for them?

Goes back to my point that you don't draft projects (that huge) in the first round, and somebody with as many flags as he is has to be considered a "project".

At this point, we will agree to disagree, but I'll leave it with this. If any team drafts him in the first round expecting him to make a immediate impact, then they will be set back years. This kid is going to fall flat on his face. The reg flags are there, and stupid teams will ignore them.

1) Character issues
2) Questionable intelligence (cheating verifies this)
3) No experience in reading defenses
4) No experience in pro-style offense or taking snaps from center
5) Accuracy issues
6) Footwork issues
7) Dedication to football questioned (he's a entertainer per his words)


1) big arm
2) great athelete


Yup, I'd say the bad outweighs the good by a huge margin.[/quote]



Well we know who you dont want to draft :)

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;788209]Vinny said he wouldn't draft Cam, so that means we should definitely draft him.[/quote]

The problem with Vinny is he took to many "high risk" selections in the second round two years ago. Kelly and Thomas were both "high risk" selections with one being a project the other being injury prone. They both slid to the 2nd round after draft pundits had them slated for 1st round. Taking 1 risk should have been enough, but taking two high risks with the 3 picks was foolish. Most of the picks have been decent in regards to actual talent. I do disagree with him 100% about Jimmy Clausen though. I think he lets the Notre Dame ties influence his judgment.

Devin Thomas is another one of those "projects" that mock drafters had going in the first round with all that "potential" and "upside" at WR. We see how that's worked out.



[quote=skinsfaninok;788218]Well we know who you dont want to draft :)[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not high on any of the QBs this year. I think Locker would be our best fit for the type of player he is, but I don't think he's worth a #10 selection. That said, he's proved more than Cam Newton ever has (on and off the field).

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;788209]Vinny said he wouldn't draft Cam, so that means we should definitely draft him.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm coming around to the idea now!

[IMG]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9067/vinnycall.png[/IMG]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/09/bills-dined-with-cam-newton-who-sets-up-carolina-visit/]Bills dined with Cam Newton, who sets up Carolina visit | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

CoachBillick Brian Billick

with Auburns pro-day in the books, I look elsewhere for a QB before Cam Newton. Someone will gamble with him, I wouldn't.
19 minutes ago

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;788212]I haven't changed anything. When I said "he's a first round grade based of being a great athlete and potential", I wasn't saying I thought he was. That's why the other draft pundits have him listed. It's also why they had Bruce Campbell listed so high as even going in the top 10. Why? All because of the "potential" and "upside".[/quote]
Blah, Blah, Blah
Stop. You're arguing with yourself.
None of your back pedalling and switching arguments changes the facts.

Cam Newton has 1st round talent; if you can't see that or understand that there's no way I can explain it to you.

The rest of your post just takes a long winded route of saying the exact same thing I said in my original post that in your haste to disagree with the first statement apparently didn't bother to read:
[quote=30gut;787088]I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
[SIZE="4"][B]But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else[/B][/SIZE].[/quote]

[quote=You]....................This kid is going to fall flat on his face.[/quote]Thanks, that's nice to know.
Predicting that any NFL prospect will fail is [I]always[/I] the safe side. Afterall we're talking about the [I][B]NFL[/B][/I] the failure rate will always be high regardless of draft position.
You're not exactly going out on a limb when you predict a prospect will fail.

HTTR!

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Justin Tuck really summed up my thoughts in comments to the press recently:

"In this league, the athletic quarterbacks don't last long," the two-time Pro Bowler said. "It's the quarterbacks [like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees] that can sit in the pocket and take a picture of whatever defense we're in and know in 0.3 seconds that a hot slant is going to be open, or in 2 seconds, with this pump fake, that safety's gonna step up ... It's those guys that [teams] are looking for, and I don't think Cam is that player yet.

"If he comes into the league doing what he did in college, he won't be in this league for very long."

[url=http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/tuck_cam_not_nfl_qb_gBB6qEj9yObuIQF1AQpogI]Justin Tuck of Giants says Auburn quarterback Cam Newton will struggle after NFL Draft - NYPOST.com[/url]

Is Cam a 1st round pick, sure...late round IMO. Guy is a project

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788233]CoachBillick Brian Billick

with Auburns pro-day in the books, I look elsewhere for a QB before Cam Newton. Someone will gamble with him, I wouldn't.
19 minutes ago[/quote]

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/post-18.html]Redskins Insider - Mel Kiper: 'I don't think Newton fits the Redskins'[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

^ Thank you Mel Kiper. Your a genius.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Hey when you guys see Polls on websites like the one at NFL.COM

"Which Auborn product will be drafted first?"

Cam Newton
or
Nick Fairley

Do you vote for who you actually think will be the first pick, or do you find yourself voting another way? See I looked at the question and thought "Oh no, I clearly don't want the Skins to pick up Cam Newton so I voted for Cammy in hopes that he is picked first so the Skins won't have to even put thought into whether to draft him or not.

or I find myself voting for my not so favorite QB because I'm hoping the one I'm interested in won't draw as much interest and hopefully will still be on the board when the Skins pick. lol. I know I'm spending too much time thinking about the question but I was just wondering if the rest of you do the same thing.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

If Newton is there when we pick, we'll grab him. I don't see how Shanahan could do otherwise. If he passes and we struggle at the QB position for the next few years he'll get crucified.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Longtimefan;788353][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/post-18.html"]Redskins Insider - Mel Kiper: 'I don't think Newton fits the Redskins'[/URL][/quote]

Yet not too long ago he said the Skins would take him.

I agree with him this time around... I don't think he's a good fit here.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;788385]If Newton is there when we pick, we'll grab him. I don't see how Shanahan could do otherwise. If he passes and we struggle at the QB position for the next few years he'll get crucified.[/quote]

Much of that will depend on Newton's maturation process wherever he's drafted. On the contrary, should the Redskins decide not to draft him and he fails to work out elsewhere, Shanahan will look like a genius.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

This will probably all be moot anyway, very doubtful he falls to #10

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;788386]Yet not too long ago he said the Skins would take him.

I agree with him this time around... I don't think he's a good fit here.[/quote]

Your latest post lends clarity to the Newton situation.

This article by JR of RI dated 1/26/11 is proof of your statement. Things can change a great deal in more than a month but, it demonstrates why I have so little faith in how Kiper continuously flip-flops around.

[url=http://feeds.voices.washingtonpost.com/click.phdo?i=f2782fe6ce9840f36b754d8cf7b8b559]Redskins Insider - Kiper believes Redskins will take Cam Newton[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Kiper don't know WTF he thinks right now.. If we draft Cam I wouldnt be happy but I'll get over it

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I am loving the idea of drafting the best available at 10 or trading down and getting Ponder in the 2nd round. I am still smarting over the lost of Colt McCoy would love to have him with that traded 2nd rounder for McNabb.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Redskins-give-Cam-Newton-the-best-chance-of-success-in-NFL.html]The Redskins give Cam Newton the best chance of success in NFL | National Football Post[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

^ good Article GT

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;788469][url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Redskins-give-Cam-Newton-the-best-chance-of-success-in-NFL.html]The Redskins give Cam Newton the best chance of success in NFL | National Football Post[/url][/quote]

Wes comes across as a true Newton enthusiast. Some interesting observations however.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

You could replace Cam Newton's name with Jake Locker in that article and the argument wouldn't have to be adjusted at all.

Locker is exceptional outside of the pocket, he is faster than Newton and he can make all the NFL throws with ease.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

^ this

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Gabbert's 40 time is pretty comparable to Newton's as well. As are his jumps and other measures of athleticism.

And while you could say Locker on the Redskins is a pretty good situation for Locker (correctly), it's still not much of a situation for the Redskins.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Interesting:

[url=http://www.nesn.com/2011/03/cam-newton-described-as-horrible-human-being-by-pro-football-weekly-draft-preview.html]Cam Newton Described as Horrible Human Being by Pro Football Weekly's Draft Preview - Daily Blend - NESN.com[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=mredskins;791094]Interesting:

[url=http://www.nesn.com/2011/03/cam-newton-described-as-horrible-human-being-by-pro-football-weekly-draft-preview.html]Cam Newton Described as Horrible Human Being by Pro Football Weekly's Draft Preview - Daily Blend - NESN.com[/url][/quote]

Well, Nolan Nawrocki is one of the more respected draft analysts in the biz. If he said the same things about me that he's said about Cam...I'd have to reevaluate the person I am

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=mredskins;791094]Interesting:

[url=http://www.nesn.com/2011/03/cam-newton-described-as-horrible-human-being-by-pro-football-weekly-draft-preview.html]Cam Newton Described as Horrible Human Being by Pro Football Weekly's Draft Preview - Daily Blend - NESN.com[/url][/quote]

This is no news. Gotta be blind not to see that.

Question is, can he still lead a team to the superbowl with all that going on...trying to remember if anyone has?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote]"Very disingenuous -- has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup," Nawrocki wrote. "Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law -- does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room. ... Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness -- is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."[/quote]

No way in hell I'd draft this kid before the first 4 rounds. Sure, some idiot owner is going to push his GM into taking the kid because of the hype and merchandise he'll sell. I think the only reason this kid is drafted in the top 10 this year is because of the rookie salary caps. I think had this been in the same type of system as before, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody willing to guarantee this guy 40-50 million with the type of red flags he has. Well, there is always Al Davis.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791114]Well, Nolan Nawrocki is one of the more respected draft analysts in the biz. If he said the same things about me that he's said about Cam...I'd have to reevaluate the person I am[/quote]

LoL, I know right?

Forget what Gil Brandt says about Cam, what does Gil know compared to Nolan Nawrocki? ;)

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Lets see Nolan never heard of him before today vs Gil Brandt re: Cam Newton

[quote=Gil Brandt]There have been a lot of negatives tossed around lately when it comes to Auburn quarterback Cam Newton, and it’s understandable that NFL teams must perform their due diligence to learn everything they can about him if they are considering drafting the Heisman Trophy winner next month.[COLOR="DarkOrange"][B] I’ve talked to a lot of players and coaches who were around Newton at Auburn, people whose opinions I trust, and I’ve come to this conclusion: Newton is the real deal.[/B][/COLOR]

The biggest concerns being voiced by personnel types have been about questions surrounding his work ethic and character. [B][U][COLOR="darkorange"]From my own personal interaction with Newton, I can vouch for his character. But I’ll defer to those who were closer to him.[/COLOR][/U][/B]

[COLOR="darkorange"][I]Folks at Auburn will tell you that when Newton arrived on campus in the winter of 2010, he did not do what many young student-athletes do at Auburn – that is, he did not take off on weekends to hang out in Atlanta or Birmingham. Newton stayed on campus to work out on weekends. After a while, his teammates gravitated toward him and started rallying around him. “If the quarterback was sticking around to work, why shouldn’t we?” This was a turning point, a sign that Newton had the work habits and the best interest of his team at heart. Talent alone didn’t win Auburn the national championship. Newton’s leadership off the field played a key role.[/I][/COLOR]

As for character, I have not found anyone that will speak badly of the kid. There are questions about his father’s role in the pay-for-play investigation, but Cam Newton maintains he was not involved. There was the issue of a stolen laptop when Newton was at Florida. But when it comes to character, there have been no problems. By all accounts, he doesn’t cut lines at school, doesn’t blow off classes. He rides around campus on a scooter and is friendly with the student population.

Falcons scout Matt Berry was the group leader who led around Newton’s group at the combine last month. He said Newton never complained and was never late for a meeting.

Despite the big media splash over Newton’s comments last month about wanting to be an “icon and entertainer,” I have no doubt that Newton is much more grounded than people think. His stability has a lot to do with his family. And after visiting with his mother and father, who have been together for 25 years, I can see Newton has a great deal of stability.

The one thing most people will agree on is that Newton has a ton of talent, both as a passer and a natural athlete. The biggest concern is perhaps his lack of experience, having only played one season of major college football. But when you factor in his work habits and his character, the experience becomes less of a concern.

There have been a lot of comparisons to Vince Young and JaMarcus Russell. It’s true that Newton is athletic like they are, but Newton plays more under control than those guys did coming out of college. He won’t make the careless plays, thinking he can rely on his athletic ability to get him out of trouble.

Will he be as productive as Sam Bradford was in his first year? No. But he will be a big-time quarterback in the NFL within a few years.

This is a special guy.

About 75 percent of media felt he was good and confident at combine. Others thought cocky. I side with the 75 percent that said confident. Hour-long media session, followed by a session with Sirius. Sirius was on a break before going live, Newton never complained, and wowed the people.[/quote]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Well, two very respected people with different opinions. He's been one of the more polarizing top draft contenders in a while

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Cam continues to be the wild card of this draft. For every positive he has there is a flip side. He's either boom or bust bust in the eyes of most.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791114]Well, Nolan Nawrocki is one of the more respected draft analysts in the biz. If he said the same things about me that he's said about Cam...I'd have to reevaluate the person I am[/quote]

tongue in cheek? So, what's his scouting report on Smootsmack?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=freddyg12;791134]tongue in cheek? So, what's his scouting report on Smootsmack?[/quote]

tongue in cheek? Not at all

Skilled, tends to skip mod mini-camps and training camps. Can you trust him not to bolt for the next big paycheck