Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

I highly doubt white makes the team over Gibson due to the fact white will be safe on the practice squad whereas Gibson won't. At some point, someone's gonna get hurt and we can elevate white. If whites on the team and someone gets hurt, we've got nobody familiar with the defense to elevate.

No way Paul stays on the practice squad, but stallworth and banks have both made cases to make the team. In all honesty, I think hankerson could be cut. I know we spent a 3rd rounder on him but we spent a pick on Paul too and he seems, at this early stage, to be the better investment. If we could trade hankerson for a 5th, id be happy.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=vallin21;830097]At WR
I think you keep 7
Moss, Gaffney, AA, Austin, Hankerson, Banks, and Stallworth, and hope that Paul doesn't get picked up off waivers.

LB's

You keep 8

ILB- Riley, Mcintosh
ILB- Fletcher, Fox
OLB Kerrigan, White
OLB- Orakpo, Jackson

BTW- I was never sold on Beck starting at QB. [B]WAY[/B] too inconsistent, and tonight proved it.[/quote]

You think either white or Jackson makes it over Lorenzo?

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;830102]You think either white or Jackson makes it over Lorenzo?[/quote]

Right,
completely forgot about Alexander.
M White to PS, and one guy I really like is the kid Shannon, the FS.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=vallin21;830103]Right,
completely forgot about Alexander.
M White to PS, and [B]one guy I really like is the kid Shannon, the FS[/B].[/quote]

You mean the guy who whiffed on Gant's 90 yard TD?

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

To answer some questions and thoughts above,

I don't see the Skins Cutting a 3rd rounder, and I definitely dont see any team giving us a draft pick for him, even so a 5th rounder.

Also the Shannon kid was ok but not worth keeping.

I don't see us putting Royster on IR...what's his injury? I'm pretty sure you have to have evidence of an injury to put someone on IR. It really sucks though with Royster, because I've been watching the guy play since he was a Freshman in high school with Eddie Royal on his team, and he looked like Clinton Portis going against High Schoolers. He was quick as can be. Now of course it's high school, but theres only a few kids from each district that go on to play DI football, but when he got to college he looked slower than he did in high school, and less flashy, very understandable but still a pretty big drop off none the less. However he was still a great player at Penn State being their All time leading rusher, and making big runs in big games. Then he goes to us and looks like just an OK back. One thats not flashy, or fast,and only gets the amount of yards the play is designed to get. It's like I want to see more out of the guy. I'm pretty disappointed, having watched this guy play for the past 8 years, but he doesn't look like a guy who will be in the league in a couple of years until he changes something (toughness, speed, elusiveness, quickness, etc.) Hopefully time on the PS will be good for him.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=vallin21;830097]At WR
[B]I think you keep 7[/B]
Moss, Gaffney, AA, Austin, Hankerson, Banks, and Stallworth, and hope that Paul doesn't get picked up off waivers.

LB's

You keep 8

ILB- Riley, Mcintosh
ILB- Fletcher, Fox
OLB Kerrigan, White
OLB- Orakpo, Jackson

BTW- I was never sold on Beck starting at QB. [B]WAY[/B] too inconsistent, and tonight proved it.[/quote]

There's no way they keep 7 wideouts. Last year they kept six.

My take: It'll be Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Banks, Austin, and Hankerson. I don't think Stallworth has stood out enough to make the final cut. The only spots Stallworth had a shot at were Austin's and Hankerson's. But the coaches are likely going to favor the younger guys based on potenial/upside.

The problem is Hankerson. I frankly don't see what he's done to make the team. But I don't see them tossing away a 3rd round pick either. If you PS him, somebody will snatch him away. He gets a pass this time, but only because of his price tag.

Last season they kept 9 linebackers. The guy who fought for his football life last night was Rob Jackson -- that was a statement game like no other. Not sure about Markus White. H. Blades probably has to make it.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=vallin21;830097]At WR
I think you keep 7
Moss, Gaffney, AA, Austin, Hankerson, Banks, and Stallworth, and hope that Paul doesn't get picked up off waivers.

LB's

You keep 8

ILB- Riley, Mcintosh
ILB- Fletcher, Fox
OLB Kerrigan, White
OLB- Orakpo, Jackson

BTW- I was never sold on Beck starting at QB. [B]WAY[/B] too inconsistent, and tonight proved it.[/quote]

I agree, Beck looks like he is inconsistent and might have really good games and really bad ones. In a QB league, the Skins dont have one.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;830114]I agree, Beck looks like he is inconsistent and might have really good games and really bad ones. [B]In a QB league, the Skins dont have one.[/B][/quote]

The reality is, Beck has only had one inconsistent stretch this preseason, and that was last night. It's not like he's been this way throughout. There were two obvious bad throws -- the pick in the endzone when he was under pressure, and the miss to a wide open Austin underneath.

Plus, as Shanahan said, Beck was without a lot of his primary weapons for this game.

As to your last statement, I don't know about that. No matter how you look at it, we are in a rebuilding process right now. That means it'll take awhile to get all the pieces in place. There were no free agent QBs available worth anything this time around, and we couldn't break the bank on a draft pick if the coaches didn't have confidence in what the available selections had to offer.

I'm usually just as pessimistic as you are about the general outlook, but I think there's more promise at the quarterback scenario than we've had in awhile.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;830116]The reality is, Beck has only had one inconsistent stretch this preseason, and that was last night. It's not like he's been this way throughout. There were two obvious bad throws -- the pick in the endzone when he was under pressure, and the miss to a wide open Austin underneath.

Plus, as Shanahan said, Beck was without a lot of his primary weapons for this game.

As to your last statement, I don't know about that. No matter how you look at it, we are in a rebuilding process right now. That means it'll take awhile to get all the pieces in place. There were no free agent QBs available worth anything this time around, and we couldn't break the bank on a draft pick if the coaches didn't have confidence in what the available selections had to offer.

I'm usually just as pessimistic as you are about the general outlook, but I think there's more promise at the quarterback scenario than we've had in awhile.[/quote]

I think maybe that inconsistency is why Beck hasnt caught on as a starter.

The Skins are stuck in what seems to be a permanent rebuilding process, I can hardly remember s season in the last 10 years where the Skins didnt seem to be rebuilding but I do think this rebuild might really work as they are rebuilding with younger players and thats good.

The QBs of the past few seasons havent worked out and Beck hasnt played enough to say he wont work but as of the start of this season the Skins have starting QB that are here because nobody else wanted them. Beck & Rex will be servicable QBs but thats about it. I'm not pessimistic or optimistic about QB, it is what it is.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;830105]You mean the guy who whiffed on Gant's 90 yard TD?[/quote]

Yeah, it was a whiff but, he also has potential/upside (5 tackles, 1 sack). Hopefully he'll get a PS spot.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;830119]I think maybe that inconsistency is why Beck hasnt caught on as a starter.

[B]The Skins are stuck in what seems to be a permanent rebuilding process, I can hardly remember s season in the last 10 years where the Skins didnt seem to be rebuilding[/B] but I do think this rebuild might really work as they are rebuilding with younger players and thats good.

The QBs of the past few seasons havent worked out and Beck hasnt played enough to say he wont work but as of the start of this season the Skins have starting QB that are here because nobody else wanted them. Beck & Rex will be servicable QBs but thats about it. I'm not pessimistic or optimistic about QB, it is what it is.[/quote]

Well, the team refused to rebuild during the Joe Gibbs Part II era -- that was a huge mistake. You might say we 'rebuilt' for Spurrier's teams but only to implement his system. With Shanahan and Allen it's for real -- this is a true rebuild from the top down on both sides of the ball.

I still don't believe we've seen enough of Beck from his total time in the league to call him inconsistent. You'd have to have more of a total body of work to examine to be able to label him that way.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;830119]I think maybe that inconsistency is why Beck hasnt caught on as a starter.

[B]The Skins are stuck in what seems to be a permanent rebuilding process, I can hardly remember s season in the last 10 years where the Skins didnt seem to be rebuilding[/B] but I do think this rebuild might really work as they are rebuilding with younger players and thats good.

The QBs of the past few seasons havent worked out and Beck hasnt played enough to say he wont work but as of the start of this season the Skins have starting QB that are here because nobody else wanted them. Beck & Rex will be servicable QBs but thats about it. I'm not pessimistic or optimistic about QB, it is what it is.[/quote]

I think you could make the case that they never "truly" rebuilt. All I can remember, even with Gibbs, is trading picks away for over-paid players and making each season seem like we were only a few pieces away.

When's the last time the redskins drafted 10 players?

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

To add on Beck; He might be a great leader, and a "student of the game" but that only takes you so far in football. You have to do it on the field... CONSISTENTLY. IMO Beck had enough skill players to work with last night. If anything, this last game might have cost him his chance to start Wk 1. Not putting alot of emphasis on the 4th preseason game, [B]but you should not be that inconsistent and erratic if you're trying to win the QB job[/B]; mind you against the Bucs 2nd stringers. He does run the bootleg pretty well, but missed a wide open Autsin, and missed Paul twice. Despite what Shanny said post game, Rex Grossman didn't play for a reason... because he's starting Wk 1. Will Grossman be an all pro QB? No. But can control the game, and gives us a much better shot to win Wk. 1 against the NYG.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bushead;830123]I think you could make the case that they never "truly" rebuilt. All I can remember, even with Gibbs, is trading picks away for over-paid players and making each season seem like we were only a few pieces away.

[B]When's the last time the redskins drafted 10 players[/B]?[/quote]

2008 :doh:

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;830125]2008 :doh:[/quote]

Don't use facts to tear me apart, only emotions.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bushead;830126]Don't use facts to tear me apart, only emotions.[/quote]

Heck, I think we all would rather forget the 2008 draft. So your basic statement was right on!

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

I was not able to watch the game last night, and I dont have time right now to pour through the 22 pages of comments (impressive attention to the game for the 4th pre-season game guys!) I have two questions if someone is able to sum it up for me. I see Markus White had a sack and few tackles, does it look like he earned a roster spot? Also how did hankerson look? I saw he had 3 or so catches, any drops?

Thanks to anyone who can fill me in!

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bushead;830123]I think you could make the case that they never "truly" rebuilt. All I can remember, even with Gibbs, is trading picks away for over-paid players and making each season seem like we were only a few pieces away.

When's the last time the redskins drafted 10 players?[/quote]

Thats my point, they never rebuilt. They'd bring in players and change coaches so much it was constant rebuild without any apparent plan.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;830121]Well, [B]the team refused to rebuild during the Joe Gibbs Part II era -- that was a huge mistake. [/B]You might say we 'rebuilt' for Spurrier's teams but only to implement his system. With Shanahan and Allen it's for real -- this is a true rebuild from the top down on both sides of the ball.

I still don't believe we've seen enough of Beck from his total time in the league to call him inconsistent. You'd have to have more of a total body of work to examine to be able to label him that way.[/quote]

I don't think this is true. Gibbs aquired the core of his team during 2000's was CPortis, Moss, Rogers, Marcus Washingnton, C. Griffin Phillip Daniels, etc. in 2004 & 2005. This core made the playoffs twice misleading everyone into the belief that it was a player or two away from taking the next step.

I would agree that since the original Gibbs make over, this team has not been rebuilt. I also agree that Shanallen seems to be committed to a full on rebuild, not just of the team, but the organization.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;830014]Clemmons should start!!! LOL[/quote]

Anyone else catch Clemens' TD celebration? He did this:

[img]http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn112/tazziesgirl/lol/Spanking.gif[/img]

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;830167]I don't think this is true. Gibbs aquired the core of his team during 2000's was CPortis, Moss, Rogers, Marcus Washingnton, C. Griffin Phillip Daniels, etc. in 2004 & 2005. This core made the playoffs twice misleading everyone into the belief that it was a player or two away from taking the next step.

I would agree that since the original Gibbs make over, this team has not been rebuilt. I also agree that Shanallen seems to be committed to a full on rebuild, not just of the team, but the organization.[/quote]

I would argue that trading away draft picks so you can put together a core of players based on a "win now" mentality does not constitute a rebuild in the true sense of the word. Gibbs wasn't in it for the long haul -- his time was limited. So he and Cerrato slapped together a patchwork group of veterans on the downside along with some pricey free agents at the expense of draft picks.

There was no building a solid foundation of young hungry players that we're seeing now. I'd say those two strategies are of completely different mindsets.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Shanny is the only coach that Danny has hired that has said from the start that it will take 5 yrs. He told Danny if that was not OK for him then he would need to find another coach. This is a coach and team that is truly rebuilding.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Exactly, and if what Bruce Allen says is right Shanahan has lot of say on what goes on (i.e. new indoor practice facility)

Clearly this is a rebuild to me in terms of approach. Now that doesn't mean that since we're rebuilding we should aim low, but clearly they understand that the culture as a whole is changing.

[QUOTE=Bushead;830126]Don't use facts to tear me apart, only emotions.[/QUOTE]

The argument is still sound. We drafted 10 people not players that year.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Wow the Beck bandwagon got a little lighter after this game, huh?

I think some people forget he's only played 4 regular season games with a 0-9 team. He's basically a slightly older rookie out there.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bucket;830239]Wow the Beck bandwagon got a little lighter after this game, huh?

I think some people forget he's only played 4 regular season games with a 0-9 team. He's basically a slightly older rookie out there.[/quote]

No kidding, we already know what Rex is anyway. It's not like this is a certain playoff team no matter who plays QB. We might as well let Beck play and see if he can realize some of that potential.

My only problem with beck is that let's say he does have a ton of potential and that he realizes it this year. He'll be 31 next year, how many more years can we reasonably expect to get out of him.

I view both as stopgaps with Rex being a more known quantity. If beck was 25 or 26 I would want him without question. I can't think developing a qb in his 30s is going to work out for us long term. Even if he's Joe Montana this year we will still need to draft a qb in the next couple years.

I waiver back and forth on if it would be better for us to flop this year and start over with a 1st round qb or if we can win by having more game manager qbs.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Rich Gannon didn't flourish until he was like 34. It can be done.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Was at the game...great defense, great special teams, great offensive line play. It is going to be tough to make the cut. Out with the old, in with the new.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=VegasSkinsFan;830249]My only problem with beck is that let's say he does have a ton of potential and that he realizes it this year. He'll be 31 next year, how many more years can we reasonably expect to get out of him.

I view both as stopgaps with Rex being a more known quantity. If beck was 25 or 26 I would want him without question. I can't think developing a qb in his 30s is going to work out for us long term. Even if he's Joe Montana this year we will still need to draft a qb in the next couple years.

I waiver back and forth on if it would be better for us to flop this year and start over with a 1st round qb or if we can win by having more game manager qbs.[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Yeah and in addition to Gannon, and speaking of Montana, Steve Young turned 30 or 31 during his blow up season (depending what season you consider is his blow up season).... And was more like a Mike Vick style QB who scrambled a lot and i would think has a shorter self life then a more pocket oriented passer.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Age doesnt mean a whole lot to me, part of the reason i say we should keep Stallworth over Paul. Age is important but not the only thing....

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=GreekSkin;830251]Rich Gannon didn't flourish until he was like 34. It can be done.[/quote]

Doug Wililams and Mark Rypien took us to the SB later in their careers.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but young, williams, rypien, and Gannon all had considerable starting experience, maybe not in wins but all of them had at least a couple years of starting under their belt when they then broke out.

Gannon started 58 games before he went to the raiders

Young started 41 games between usfl, bucs, and 49ers before he took over for Montana.

Williams played 66 games before coming to the skins and even took the bucs to the playoffs in 79

Rypien was 29 when we won the super bowl with him an had 30 starts prior to that year.


My point on beck is that he's old without the prior starting experience that some of the other late bloomers. I think it will take him a year or two to be great and at that point he'll be close to mid 30s

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]^I agree with you a lot. Its sucks not having a elite qb or a great developmental young guy. But theres not really anything that could have been done this year. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]And honestly im not really worried about who we use for QB; Beck or Grossman. I would go as far to say that either QB used in our system will put us in better shape than the quarterback situation about 10 or so other teams are facing. I guess the caveat to that is our QB situation comes across as more of a short term fix while a lot of other teams are hoping they are developing their next franchise guy.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Its really really hard to get a good qb. Beck never really had a good opportunity. I think Grossman is a mediocre, although inconsistent, qb who like any okay qb could be really good if in the right system (maybe our system?). [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Only about half the league has good qbs. Only about 6 or 7 have excellent qbs. You got to get a little lucky to have a top 10 qb, especially one that that remains in the excellent/good status for more than a couple years. Maybe well have one sometime soon, but in the meantime im cool with what we got. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]*on a side note, I wish we never traded for McNabb and not just for the obvious reasons. I would love to see Cambell in this situation, behind our current line, with our WR mix and running game....[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

Since when was 30 old? lol... He just turned 30, and it's not like he's taking a beating. He still has fresh legs from the look of it, and works hard. If he starts for us the next two years with this team then something special could happen

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bucket;830270]Since when was 30 old? lol... He just turned 30, and it's not like he's taking a beating. He still has fresh legs from the look of it, and works hard. If he starts for us the next two years with this team then something special could happen[/quote]

If this guy gets on a roll and stays relatively healthy, he could easily play another 6 or 7 years.

Re: Tampa Bay vs Washington Gameday Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;830273]If this guy gets on a roll and stays relatively healthy, he could easily play another 6 or 7 years.[/quote]

I'll glady take a "much fresher" Rich Gannon clone. :D