Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889465]Tripp the argument about Matt Ryan was more about passing up a chance at the first tier guys and thinking you can get the same type of quality in the second round with guys like Henne.

In 2012 terms it's like saying that instead of getting RG3 you can get the same quality player with Tannehill.

RGIII is far and beyond Matt Ryan as a prospect.[/quote]Understood, but I think you're doing more to prove the opposite.

Obviously the argument that first round players are better than second round players will hold for any position, as will the argument that first tier players are better than second tier players. Luck is probably a tier above Griffin. How much more is Luck worth to the Redskins than Griffin? Hard to say.

I don't think every one of Foles, Tannehill, Kellen Moore, or Kirk Cousins will make it in the NFL. I think there's a good chance that someone I gave a first round grade to in this draft washes out. Happens every year. But that doesn't mean that Tannehill or Foles isn't worth the 6th overall pick, just like it doesn't mean that Robert Griffin isn't worth the 2nd overall pick.

The big issue re: Griffin is that QB trade ups in the draft have a strong tendency to not work out in the end. Speaking only based on history, you'd be more justified in taking Tannehill at 6th overall than trading to 2nd for Griffin. That's the situation that's typically been most rewarding.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=irish;889473]What if RGIII has a Joe Theisman leg break 3 quarters into the season? He's lost and so are all those draft picks. I think that's a much worse situation than having Manning go down and having to revert to the status quo.[/quote]

Anything can happen. Whatever does happen, we have to adapt and move on. Whatever moves we make this offseason, there will be inherent risks associated with every one. It's all a gamble. The only difference is what your preference in gambling is.

And everyone wants to talk about draft picks, but look at our upper round draft picks from 04-09. Where are they now? Were they worth it to our team? In those 5 years, we sat where we had our original pick, we traded up once for JC, and we traded down once for more picks (08). Were those moves worth it? The draft is a crapshoot. If the Shannies have identified RG3 as the guy they want representing the B&G for the next decade, go get him. I'm not saying be stupid in their pursuit of him, but how you go get him is up for debate.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889458]What if it's Manning/Status Quo vs. RG3?

Like suppose we couldn't/didn't make any QB move this year other than make Manning our new starter? So we don't add any young QB prospect this year[/quote]

we have to add a young QB, the status quo has been the problem.

When you get down to Manning vs RG3, its all about the cost of RG3. It the cost is greater than our 6th and next years 1st, Manning is the way to go. But the thing is even if you get Manning you still have to add young QBs this year. Combo of Tannehill, Cousins, Foles, Clausen, Hoyer, Johnson, Quinn...

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

This is the rumored cost...

[url=http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/redskins_preparing_massive_offer_for_robert_griffin_iii/10129381]Report: Redskins want RG3 badly[/url]

[QUOTE]NBC Philadelphia’s Howard Eskin reports, via team sources, the Redskins are “prepared” to make the Rams a massive offer — [B]their top three picks this year and “at least” their first-rounder next year[/B] — to land Griffin III.
[/QUOTE]

Also...
[QUOTE][B]After a terrific showing [/B]at the Combine, highlighted by a blazing forty-yard dash time of 4.38, Griffin can now sit back and watch his suitors offer up an arm and a leg [/QUOTE]

What showing? we were not privy to any of the meetings. we only saw his NFL Network media spotlight. and his 40 time. What showing? he didn't throw, he didn't run the shuttle, did he long jump or high jump? did he bench press? I must have missed something.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

To try to shift the argument for a moment, does anyone want to make the argument that the Rams SHOULDN'T draft RG3 with the second pick? I mean sure, they'll get a haul of picks to move down from 2 to 4 or 6 or 8 or wherever. But, the Colts would get twice as much to move out of the first slot, and they're not going to do it. Why SHOULDN'T the Rams leave all those picks on the table and just fix their quarterback situation.

The answer probably has something to do with the risk of Griffin not being as effective as Bradford already is, which is a pretty low bar. But the Rams are one team, at least, that apparently thinks even though RG3 is good, that they're better off with the picks. Point is: teams that value the picks over RG3 exist.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889475]
The big issue re: Griffin is that QB trade ups in the draft have a strong tendency to not work out in the end. Speaking only based on history, you'd be more justified in taking Tannehill at 6th overall than trading to 2nd for Griffin. That's the situation that's typically been most rewarding.[/quote]

True that trading up is risky but I've seen two situations where teams traded up for a highly touted rare QB prospect in both Vick and Manning. Both teams saw success and the trade up was a positive for both franchises. Atlanta became relevant and New York won two Super Bowls.

I propose that any QB where you feel comfortable paying the price to trade up in the top 3 to acquire him is likely to pay off. Worse case scenario playoff appearances. Best case scenario - multiple Super Bowls

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889478]This is the rumored cost...

[url=http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/redskins_preparing_massive_offer_for_robert_griffin_iii/10129381]Report: Redskins want RG3 badly[/url]



Also...


[B]What showing? we were not privy to any of the meetings. we only saw his NFL Network media spotlight. and his 40 time. What showing? he didn't throw, he didn't run the shuttle, did he long jump or high jump? did he bench press? I must have missed something.[/B][/quote]

His hair looked awesome. That's worth a first round pick right there.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889458]What if it's Manning/Status Quo vs. RG3?

Like suppose we couldn't/didn't make any QB move this year other than make Manning our new starter? So we don't add any young QB prospect this year[/quote]

It would be horrible and short sighted. If they sign Manning...IMO they need to draft Tannehill at #6 and not even fool around with it.

This is part of why i just want them to get RG3 and be done with it. I think signing Manning will take away all their aggressiveness to secure a long term QB upgrade. And that is one position that never just falls to you...teams routinely draft QB's higher then they are projected to go.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;889478]This is the rumored cost...

[url=http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/redskins_preparing_massive_offer_for_robert_griffin_iii/10129381]Report: Redskins want RG3 badly[/url]

Is that too much of a cost if he leads us to the playoffs in just his first few years and shows promise as out guy for the future? i dont think so, and i think he can be the guy. There comes a guy when you have to take a chance, nothing is guaranteed.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889482]It would be horrible and short sighted. If they sign Manning...IMO they need to draft Tannehill at #6 and not even fool around with it.

This is part of why i just want them to get RG3 and be done with it. I think signing Manning will take away all their aggressiveness to secure a long term QB upgrade. And that is one position that never just falls to you...teams routinely draft QB's higher then they are projected to go.[/quote]I think if Manning can't get an assurance that we'll use the 6th overall pick to help him win games now, I doubt he even considers Washington. Just wouldn't be a good fit for him.

If Tannehill is good enough to go at no. 6, he should be playing over Manning anyway.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Lotus;889481]His hair looked awesome. That's worth a first round pick right there.[/quote]

Rivaling Troy P. from the Steelers for Head and Shoulders commercials...

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Lotus;889481]His hair looked awesome. That's worth a first round pick right there.[/quote]

His hair is the one thing I'd like him to change. He should get a flat top with a fade.


[quote=SkinzWin;889485]Rivaling Troy P. from the Steelers for Head and Shoulders commercials...[/quote]

Can't use Heads and Shoulders on dreadlocks :D

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=mooby;889476]And everyone wants to talk about draft picks, but look at our upper round draft picks from 04-09. Where are they now? Were they worth it to our team? In those 5 years, we sat where we had our original pick, we traded up once for JC, and we traded down once for more picks (08). Were those moves worth it? The draft is a crapshoot. If the Shannies have identified RG3 as the guy they want representing the B&G for the next decade, go get him. [B]I'm not saying be stupid in their pursuit of him[/B], but how you go get him is up for debate.[/quote]I just want to point out that a couple of people ARE actually suggesting we do this. So if someone or myself responds in a manner that makes you ask yourself "why does he think I want to be reckless in pursuit of RG3?" its an honest mistake.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889478]This is the rumored cost...

[url=http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/redskins_preparing_massive_offer_for_robert_griffin_iii/10129381]Report: Redskins want RG3 badly[/url]



Also...


What showing? we were not privy to any of the meetings. we only saw his NFL Network media spotlight. and his 40 time. What showing? he didn't throw, he didn't run the shuttle, did he long jump or high jump? did he bench press? I must have missed something.[/quote]


It seems your more enamored with this whole combine talk than those that want us to trade up for him lol. His awesome showing comes from him dispelling any doubts about his physical ability and build. Along with a commanding presence when talking to the media.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Lotus;889481]His hair looked awesome. That's worth a first round pick right there.[/quote]

LOL. Your right he did look good. Imagine how he'd look after going to the "Mens Wearhouse." lol.

Ditka Up, Ditka Down
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889487]I just want to point out that a couple of people ARE actually suggesting we do this. So if someone or myself responds in a manner that makes you ask yourself "why does he think I want to be reckless in pursuit of RG3?" its an honest mistake.[/quote]

[IMG]http://f.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15299501.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

My question is: Do Tannehill or Weeden have enough talent to be an option instead of trading all those picks? Are either that far behind RGIII in talent that they are not an option?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889482]It would be horrible and short sighted. If they sign Manning...IMO they need to draft Tannehill at #6 and not even fool around with it.

This is part of why i just want them to get RG3 and be done with it. I think signing Manning will take away all their aggressiveness to secure a long term QB upgrade. And that is one position that never just falls to you...teams routinely draft QB's higher then they are projected to go.[/quote]

What if it's some lower round pick like a Russell Wilson (or...Aaron Corp!!!!) or what if it's another team's "reject" a Josh Johnson or Jimmy Clausen for example?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889480]True that trading up is risky but I've seen two situations where teams traded up for a highly touted rare QB prospect in both Vick and Manning. Both teams saw success and the trade up was a positive for both franchises. Atlanta became relevant and New York won two Super Bowls.

I propose that any QB where you feel comfortable paying the price to trade up in the top 3 to acquire him is likely to pay off. Worse case scenario playoff appearances. Best case scenario - multiple Super Bowls[/quote]The Vick one is interesting and I wouldn't say that it unconditionally didn't work. Vick had his moments with the Falcons and they had a lot of meatheaded coaching that couldn't figure out how to make it work. Overall, though, probably closer to a failure than a success, but a lot of gray area.

But in both cases, there were better options out there. I don't think either team regrets the trade they did make, but they also didn't make the very best possible move.

To pull this forward to the Redskins current situation, if the best possible move ultimately ends up being Tannehill or Foles at 6th overall, then it doesn't really matter to me how many playoff games RG3 actually wins: you can't ever have the 'right' move back. Making the right more is far more critical than making the aggressive move.

I have no problem with a team erroring on the side of risk and aggression. But if you are choosing between getting it right and erroring on the side of aggression, I would hope you'd choose to get it right.

I don't claim to have the answer though. I just think that history would point you in the direction of best quarterback available at no. 6. I just happen to not believe that Ryan Tannehill is that guy, which admittedly makes Griffin look a lot better as an option than he probably should.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=mooby;889476]Anything can happen. Whatever does happen, we have to adapt and move on. Whatever moves we make this offseason, there will be inherent risks associated with every one. It's all a gamble. The only difference is what your preference in gambling is.

And everyone wants to talk about draft picks, but look at our upper round draft picks from 04-09. Where are they now? Were they worth it to our team? In those 5 years, we sat where we had our original pick, we traded up once for JC, and we traded down once for more picks (08). Were those moves worth it? The draft is a crapshoot. If the Shannies have identified RG3 as the guy they want representing the B&G for the next decade, go get him. I'm not saying be stupid in their pursuit of him, but how you go get him is up for debate.[/quote]

I guess my gambling preference is to not bet a huge amount on a player who's style has never won a championship in the NFL. But then again I'm a conservative gambler. I think you have to remember who was making the draft decisions back then, he didnt know what he was doing.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

oh and I forgot to write in my earlier post but yes RGIII did jump. 39" vertical and 10' broad jump I believe.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

OK lets say we give this years 1,2,3 and next years first.
Does the Warpath meltdown as a whole or rejoice?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889484]I think if Manning can't get an assurance that we'll use the 6th overall pick to help him win games now, I doubt he even considers Washington. Just wouldn't be a good fit for him.

If Tannehill is good enough to go at no. 6, he should be playing over Manning anyway.[/quote]

Well Tannehill is not really worth the 6th pick since he's not generally considered a guy that can step in and play right away. However, if they want him they may be forced to take him there. That's the way it goes with QB's.

I think if we presented Peyton with an aggressive free agency plan he would be less concerned with what we were doing with the 6th overall pick. He also knows the position and can probably watch one practice and realize that Tannehill is not a threat to his job any time soon. It would not be the same message drafting RG3 or Luck would be IMO.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889489]LOL. Your right he did look good. Imagine how he'd look after going to the "Mens Wearhouse." lol.[/quote]

But remember what happened to Kerrigan last year

At the combine

[IMG]http://prod.static.49ers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/SF/photos/clubimages/2011/02-February/04kerrigan--nfl_large_580_1000.jpg[/IMG]


After being drafted

[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nfl/players/full/13973.png&w=350&h=254[/IMG]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;889493]My question is: Do Tannehill or Weeden have enough talent to be an option instead of trading all those picks? Are either that far behind RGIII in talent that they are not an option?[/quote]

Yes. Take a moment to look at Griffin.

- Olympic level athlete
- Elite Arm Strength
- Downfield accuracy
- High IQ (likely over 140)
- High character
- Led Baylor....BAYLOR to a 9-3 season including wins over Oklahoma and Texas.
- 4 year starter...err 3.15 year starter.

Tannehill and Weeden, who ironically beat Baylor, have some of those characteristics but not all of them. Virtually anything they can do RGIII can do and he'll likely do it better.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889501]Yes. Take a moment to look at Griffin.

- Olympic level athlete
- Elite Arm Strength
- Downfield accuracy
- High IQ (likely over 140)
- High character
- Led Baylor....BAYLOR to a 9-3 season including wins over Oklahoma and Texas.

Tannehill and Weeden, who ironically beat Baylor, have some of those characteristics but not all of them. Virtually anything they can do RGIII can do and he'll likely do it better.[/quote]

I know that, but is he worth giving up all those players? Could Tannehill or Weeden have enough talent down the road like, say Rypien to win a championship.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889494]What if it's some lower round pick like a Russell Wilson (or...Aaron Corp!!!!) or what if it's another team's "reject" a Josh Johnson or Jimmy Clausen for example?[/quote]

I Like Clausen as a 3rd but not as our main prospect. I don't like the lower round QB route. The historical odds of hitting on one of those guys are severely stacked against it. Even 2nd round QB's are mostly busts. I think we need to come out of this draft with a serious QB prospect. And some of these guys choosing to go back to school has turned this into what looks like a pretty shallow QB class.

We are going into year 3 of Shanny/Allen...the time to say "oh well the QB we want didn't fall to us so lets wait another year" is long gone. I love Manning...but he's 36 or 37 and coming off an injury. We don't know for sure if were gonna get 5 games or 5 years out of him.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;889498]OK lets say we give this years 1,2,3 and next years first.
Does the Warpath meltdown as a whole or rejoice?[/quote]

the obvious answer is some would be weeping and gnashing of teeth while others would be singing Hallelujah choirs. I would be in the hallelujah choir section.

Pro:
If we make that trade, it is an all in move. I can support that because, we need a consensus qb, that will not be questioned. That type of trade would mean RGIII is it. No JC question, is he or isn't he. Period end, This is the face of the Skins under the Shanny's (hair question aside).

Con:
More than just the 6th pick, we saw how BA maneuvered the 10th pick into a full meal of draftees. I would think if the 6th pick were ours, we could actively market it, and still get a 2nd tier qb, plus another bunch of picks.


For me I am sick of the yearly Skins offseason debate. Is [x] the qb or is he going. Is it the coach who's going, or the player. Give me some RGIII please.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889482]It would be horrible and short sighted. If they sign Manning...IMO they need to draft Tannehill at #6 and not even fool around with it.

This is part of why i just want them to get RG3 and be done with it. I think signing Manning will take away all their aggressiveness to secure a long term QB upgrade. And that is one position that never just falls to you...teams routinely draft QB's higher then they are projected to go.[/quote]

What if the 'skins sign RGIII and he gets hurt in preseason?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889504]I Like Clausen as a 3rd but not as our main prospect. I don't like the lower round QB route. The historical odds of hitting on one of those guys are severely stacked against it. Even 2nd round QB's are mostly busts. I think we need to come out of this draft with a serious QB prospect. And some of these guys choosing to go back to school has turned this into what looks like a pretty shallow QB class.

We are going into year 3 of Shanny/Allen...the time to say "oh well the QB we want didn't fall to us so lets wait another year" is long gone. I love Manning...but he's 36 or 37 and coming off an injury. We don't know for sure if were gonna get 5 games or 5 years out of him.[/quote]

Sorry I meant Manning and one of these guys...and then next year (ode to Dirtbag) we get a Barkley, Jones, Wilson, etc?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889499]Well Tannehill is not really worth the 6th pick since he's not generally considered a guy that can step in and play right away. However, if they want him they may be forced to take him there. That's the way it goes with QB's.

I think if we presented Peyton with an aggressive free agency plan he would be less concerned with what we were doing with the 6th overall pick. He also knows the position and can probably watch one practice and realize that Tannehill is not a threat to his job any time soon. It would not be the same message drafting RG3 or Luck would be IMO.[/quote]Hard to disagree that Tannehill isn't worth the sixth pick if you can watch one practice and tell he's not ready to play.

Someone's going to be the third best quarterback in this draft though. If it's not Tannehill that's worth the sixth pick, it will be someone else.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Overall these are my favorite QB scenarios in order of preference.

RGIII
Manning/Hoyer
Tannehill
Weeden

Tannehill, Weeden on about the same level for me. Tannehill with the slight edge.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinsguy;889507]What if the 'skins sign RGIII and he gets hurt in preseason?[/quote]

I said it earlier, I would get Webb as a backup. But to your question. What if Tannehill(who is already hurt) gets hurt in the preseason. Or what if Weeden who is 29 gets hurt in the preseason. Or what if [fill in qb here] gets hurt in the preseason?

I would hope that if we get RGIII, our staff would guide him to minimize injuries (its ok to go out of bounds, sliding is an accepted practice, etc) but even the threat of the scramble would help keep opposing DE's and LB's from full out hammers. It's just being smart in the open field.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;889505]the obvious answer is some would be weeping and gnashing of teeth while others would be singing Hallelujah choirs. I would be in the hallelujah choir section.

Pro:
If we make that trade, it is an all in move. I can support that because, we need a consensus qb, that will not be questioned. That type of trade would mean RGIII is it. No JC question, is he or isn't he. Period end, This is the face of the Skins under the Shanny's (hair question aside).

Con:
More than just the 6th pick, we saw how BA maneuvered the 10th pick into a full meal of draftees. I would think if the 6th pick were ours, we could actively market it, and still get a 2nd tier qb, plus another bunch of picks.


[B]For me I am sick of the yearly Skins offseason debate. Is [x] the qb or is he going. Is it the coach who's going, or the player. Give me some RGIII please.[/B][/quote]


That is what I thinking too! Give me that franchise QB or at least a shot at him that at least gets us in the playoffs every year and a chance at the dance. If RGIII came here and gave us a career like McNabb in Philly (hopefully with a SB victory thrown in there somewhere) I be loving my Skins again. We need THE MAN here, someone that a kid in Detroit has a poster of because he is The Man at QB. I want to watch Redskins football and be excited again. Eventually I like a SB vicotry but right now I just like to be legitimately excited about my team on Sunday.

RGIII represents all that to me.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

What happens if Synder loses his check book?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;889511]I said it earlier, I would get Webb as a backup. But to your question. What if Tannehill(who is already hurt) gets hurt in the preseason. Or what if Weeden who is 29 gets hurt in the preseason. Or what if [fill in qb here] gets hurt in the preseason?

I would hope that if we get RGIII, our staff would guide him to minimize injuries (its ok to go out of bounds, sliding is an accepted practice, etc) but even the threat of the scramble would help keep opposing DE's and LB's from full out hammers. It's just being smart in the open field.[/quote]

is Webb available?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;889505]Pro:
If we make that trade, it is an all in move. I can support that because, we need a consensus qb, that will not be questioned. That type of trade would mean RGIII is it. No JC question, is he or isn't he. Period end, This is the face of the Skins under the Shanny's (hair question aside).[/quote]I think it's maybe a bit naive to think that the Redskins quarterback questions end on draft day if they draft Griffin. There will be people who will never believe in Robert Griffin for completely superficial reasons. And then there will be a more significant percentage of fans that may not have the best understanding of the quarterback position who will note that the improvements aren't very apparent and that the young quarterback has frustrating tendencies and maybe it's not too early to consider going in a different direction at quarterback.

People will fabricate all sorts of reasons to not believe Robert Griffin is the Redskins franchise quarterback. But I think it's safe to say that draft day would be the very start of the Redskins QB debate, not the end of it.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

there is a special circle in hell for those people

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Maybe the best argument I've heard to trade up for RG3 is that: if we don't the Eagles might.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;889498]OK lets say we give this years 1,2,3 and next years first.
Does the Warpath meltdown as a whole or rejoice?[/quote]

If we get him for that low a price...rejoyce. But it's going to be more than that. I'd guess its more than that though. My biggest concern is that Shanny will not do well the next 2-3 years because our team sucks as a whole, and there are not that many good FA options and we will not have many draft picks coming up. After a couple more bad years I say he gets fired. I think he screwed up in his first year badly with the McNabb trade (and I'd argue the Williams pick...but I won't), which I believe will hurt us more than most people realize. But I think he should be given a second chance to build a franchise because I think he is a good x's and o's coach and he is a risk taker (sometimes you get burned with risks). If he makes this move, and is dedicated to rebuilding the team I want him to stick around.

How long untill the giants turned things around? Some could argue that in Manning's third year they turned it around because they made the playoffs, but I'd say it wasn't untill his 4th considering they made the playoffs at 8-8 and had more points scored on them then they scored.

Shanny's protege Kubiyak also had quite a bit of time to start winning. And now look at his team, the texans are ballin. Sometimes it takes ALOT of time to turn things around, and one mistake (given it was a big one) is understandable.

I think he did a good job at improving our team last year, and I want to see him continue down this path. The fact of the matter is our team sucks. And even our highly paid players that Shanny inherited are getting old/broken down. Hall, Moss, Fletcher, Cooley