Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

:twocents:Fellows, I feel your pain. Some like Shanahan, some don't. Some wanted Cooley back; others, not so much. It must be election season. The other side is wrong and the other guy is a liar! We have just transported those vibes to the Warpath. No compromise! As for me, I can't let go of my fav, so I say welcome back Chris Cooley.

Supposedly Chris is in great shape. I hope he makes a postive impact, and I beleive he will. I seriously doubt that any of the three can cover for Davis, but combined, maybe the TE position will be more positive than negative as the Redskins march through a turn-around season.

Beat the Steelers! HTTR

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Now..now fellas. Don't let him get your Goat. Ahaha...get it? Get it? Thank you very much!

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

I say, the Offense is scoring like 30 PPG?
Don't worry....be happy!
The organization is on to something good here---HTTR!

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Playing the option is what RG3 is most comfortable with. When we play more traditional, he looks more pedestrian. Why? Because he's not up to speed yet with that sort of style. He'll get there in time, but for right now they have crafted the offense around his strengths and its paid huge dividends. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would knock the Shanahans for what they have done with RG3. He's been the rookie of the week 3 times, the offense is near the top of the league in yardage and points... all with a rookie QB and RB. Sorry Goat but your coming off as a hater. Plain and simple. I've yet to read any analysis from guys like John Keim or Rich Campbell that agrees with your views regarding any glaring problems with Kyle's play calling, or any other noticeable issues with the offensive schemes... at all.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=redskin29633;957023]
Supposedly Chris is in great shape. I hope he makes a postive impact, and I beleive he will. I seriously doubt that any of the three can cover for Davis, but combined, maybe the TE position will be more positive than negative as the Redskins march through a turn-around season.

Beat the Steelers! HTTR[/quote]

You know I realize Cooley was injured last year..he did'nt contribute much..he's older..etc. But he's only 30 and the season before he had 77 receptions.
He's never been exceptionally gifted..speed..but he knows how to play football and he's very motivated I would expect after being cut. He came into camp this spring a little less heavy which is a good thing and he says he has something to prove. I expect there to be good competition at the TE position and I'm looking forward to seeing how it developes

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mattyk;957028]Playing the option is what RG3 is most comfortable with. When we play more traditional, he looks more pedestrian. Why? Because he's not up to speed yet with that sort of style. He'll get there in time, but for right now they have crafted the offense around his strengths and its paid huge dividends. [B] For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would knock the Shanahans for what they have done with RG3. He's been the rookie of the week 3 times, the offense is near the top of the league in yardage and points... all with a rookie QB and RB. Sorry Goat but your coming off as a hater. Plain and simple. I've yet to read any analysis from guys like John Keim or Rich Campbell that agrees with your views regarding any glaring problems with Kyle's play calling, or any other noticeable issues with the offensive [/B]schemes... at all.[/quote]
In fact, I have yet to hear....anyone's/Anyone's reviews of Robert, his performance, thus far, his potential, the Offense or the handling of all by the Shanahan's described in anything other than....extraordinary.
I don't really get all the...Negativity?

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957012]^^

Translation: Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly RG3 is saving both the Shanahans' asses from total failure with the Redskins.

I still don't really know whether to take the Mike and/or Kyle apologists serious. Like, I suspect people do it because they liked Mike from his Denver days, or have a personal liking for them somehow, or just want to f*ck with me. And those are good reasons. But when you have a regime that's done as much damage to one side of the ball (defense) as it has to the other side (offense), and the offense didn't get any better until arguably the most dynamic talent pro football has ever seen arrived (and then play-calling/play-design is still an issue)...well, I just don't get the love.

But whatevs, we've all seen stranger things.[/quote]

Oh I agree that RG3 is saving the shanahans asses. Mike was only good with Elway. Simple as that.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mattyk;957028]Playing the option is what RG3 is most comfortable with. When we play more traditional, he looks more pedestrian. Why? Because he's not up to speed yet with that sort of style. He'll get there in time, but for right now they have crafted the offense around his strengths and its paid huge dividends. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would knock the Shanahans for what they have done with RG3. He's been the rookie of the week 3 times, the offense is near the top of the league in yardage and points... all with a rookie QB and RB. Sorry Goat but your coming off as a hater. Plain and simple. I've yet to read any analysis from guys like John Keim or Rich Campbell that agrees with your views regarding any glaring problems with Kyle's play calling, or any other noticeable issues with the offensive schemes... at all.[/quote]

I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.

What I would point to, are some pretty insightful folks around here (not talking about myself here) who have pointed out the really, really questionable play-calls, play-designs. I think I see more of them, that's all. And the fact is Mike and Kyle, couldn't do ANYTHING with the offense w/o Griffin.

My intuition is that we'd probably have a bit more intelligent discussion/debate here if the Shanny regime doubters didn't get sh!t on, called stupid etc etc. I honestly wondered if that's why GTripp stopped contributing.

But again, whatevs, I don't really care if/when folks disagree w/ me, and that's why I continue to post and disagree when I want to. Not to say I haven't been wrong many a time about the Skins and lot's of other things. I admitted to being wrong when Landry had a good season w/ us, or was it half a season? And if someone named Shanahan starts winning in Washington I'll admit to being wrong on that too.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;957040]Oh I agree that RG3 is saving the shanahans asses. Mike was only good with Elway. Simple as that.[/quote]

Right, because he didn't win any games with guys like Plummer or Griese.

How many SBs did Elway win without Shanahan?

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mattyk;957042]Right, because he didn't win any games with guys like Plummer or Griese.

How many SBs did Elway win without Shanahan?[/quote]

Better question: how many SBs did Elway appear in w/o Shanahan? And Shanahan w/o Elway?

...pretty obvious who was the bigger contributor to success in Denver.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957043]Better question: how many SBs did Elway appear in w/o Shanahan? And Shanahan w/o Elway?

...pretty obvious who was the bigger contributor to success in Denver.[/quote]

I'll take wins over appearances any day. 2-0 is better than 2-4.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957041]I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.

What I would point to, are some pretty insightful folks around here (not talking about myself here) who have pointed out the really, really questionable play-calls, play-designs. I think I see more of them, that's all. And the fact is Mike and Kyle, couldn't do ANYTHING with the offense w/o Griffin.

My intuition is that we'd probably have a bit more intelligent discussion/debate here if the Shanny regime doubters didn't get sh!t on, called stupid etc etc. I honestly wondered if that's why GTripp stopped contributing.

But again, whatevs, I don't really care if/when folks disagree w/ me, and that's why I continue to post and disagree when I want to. Not to say I haven't been wrong many a time about the Skins and lot's of other things. I admitted to being wrong when Landry had a good season w/ us, or was it half a season? And if someone named Shanahan starts winning in Washington I'll admit to being wrong on that too.[/quote]

Spare me the woe is me routine. You're just as guilty tossing out the "apologists" BS every chance you get.

Keim and Campbell have no affiliation with the team and yet as we've seen with the Post in recent years, the local media aren't afraid of going toe to toe with the Redskins or tossing out harsh criticisms. If there really was a big issue with the play calling or schemes, I have to believe someone, anyone, out there in the media would have picked up on it by now. But yeah, I'm sure you with your DVR have cracked the case and really know what's going on behind the scenes. The proof is in the numbers, #3 in total offense, #5 in PPG. If you want to blast Shanahan for his personnel decisions on defense, fine, I have no problem there. But they clearly know what they're doing on offense now that they have a legit weapon at QB. Give credit where it's due, that's all I'm saying.

And let GTripp talk for himself. He has plenty of fans here.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mattyk;957044]I'll take wins over appearances any day. 2-0 is better than 2-4.[/quote]

The point is Mike never did, and I strongly, strongly suspect never will, reach a championship w/o Elway, who is one of the best QBs (easily top 10) to ever play the game.

Mike had the benefit of playing in a lousy division most of his career. Now he's in a serious division, and he can't even manage to pull off a winning season.

I just don't understand why anybody not from Denver would hold Mike's coaching (and personnel acumen) in high esteem. Hell, as I've said before I know many Denver residents and diehard Bronco fans (lots of family and friends) who don't think Mike is worth a sh!t.

By the stuff I read here one would think he won those SBs in Washington in the last couple years.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957012]Translation: Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly RG3 is saving both the Shanahans' asses from total failure with the Redskins. [/quote]


I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957047]Mike had the benefit of playing in a lousy division most of his career. [/quote]

Insert "You're Wrong" video here.

Look at the records from 94-08. The Chargers, Chiefs and Oakland all had several strong seasons and the division had several seasons of multiple 10+ win teams.

Does either matter now? No. He's got back to back double digit losing seasons here. Does that mean he has done nothing right here? Nope.

It just means he needs to do some winning.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

There were a number of reasons why GTripp stopped contributing weekly breakdowns. With that said, everything I would have normally said in a breakdown I still pretty much say anyway. I just don't put it in a single post anymore.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;957042]Right, because he didn't win any games with guys like Plummer or Griese.

How many SBs did Elway win without Shanahan?[/QUOTE]

Didn't Mike go to an afc championship game with both of those guys?

That's like saying holmgren couldn't win a super bowl without brett. Even though he went wit Seattle years later. It's hard to win superbowls, people act like every good coach or qb should win multiple. Also saying Mike couldn't win without Elway is like saying the redskins will never win again without Joe Gibbs right?

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Well QB's don't save coaches...winning does. A lot of the QB's mentioned had coaches before the ones they won SB's with. Griffen is unreal but he didn't do this without some coaching. A lot of unfortnate things have happened to this team beyond anyones control. Losing Tanard Jackson and injuries to Garcon..Davis..and practically every secondary FA we signed sure hasn't helped.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=NC_Skins;957053]I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.[/quote]

I get your point, but also keep in mind Belichiek won without Brady for a year and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and Mike McCarthy won with Bret Favre and Rodgers (so both those guys systems work) without their QBs. The other side of the argument is looking up stats of those coaches and see how they fared (like Walsh, Dungy, Levy, etc.) without a star QB. Shanahan without Elway was basically a guy that was just good enough to keep his job every year.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;957061]I get your point, but also keep in mind Belichiek won without Brady for a year and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and Mike McCarthy won with Bret Favre and Rodgers (so both those guys systems work) without their QBs. The other side of the argument is looking up stats of those coaches and see how they fared (like Walsh, Dungy, Levy, etc.) without a star QB. Shanahan without Elway was basically a guy that was just good enough to keep his job every year.[/quote]

So 11-5 and 13-3 (lost in AFL championship game to the SB winner that year, The Steelers) records are "just good enough to keep his job every year"? He had both of those records after Elway left Denver. And he did it with subpar QB's.

Also as others love to point out about the Raiders, Chargers, and Chiefs all going 0-16 for 10 years straight while Shanny was in Denver, therefore being the only reason for his success. Well guess what, The Jets havent been relevant since Joe Namath, The Dolphins havent been relevant since Dan Marino, and the Bills havent been relevant since Jim Kelly.

When the claim is the other side of the argument is to look up stats, dont you think that makes it relevant to actually look up the stats instead of stating an opinion based on not looking up the stats?

Btw, did you honestly say that winning a SB with Favre and Rodgers is "winning without their QB's"? This argument gets more absurd every time it is brought up.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=NC_Skins;957053]I can pretty much interchange any big time QB and their respective coach and it be true. Enjoy.


Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brady is saving Bellicheat's ass from total failure with the Patriots.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Rodgers is saving McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning is saving Coughlin's ass from total failure with the Giants.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Brees is saving Payton's ass from total failure with the Saints.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Ryan is saving Smith's ass from total failure with the Falcons.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Montana saved Walsh's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Young saved Seifert's ass from total failure with the 49ers.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Manning saved Dungy's ass from total failure with the Colts.

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Kelly saved Levy's ass from total failure with the Bills.[/quote]

You might believe the above, but I doubt it. If Belichick outlasts Brady he'll still lead a perennial contender. Matt Cassal whatshisname isn't much better than Rex, but he looked like Tom Brady under Belichick. Bottom line is most SB winning coaches hang it up shortly after winning a Lombardi or two, because it is damn hard. Of course, our very own Joe Gibbs showed how to win w/ different QBs, but we'll (conveniently) set that aside for now, eh? LOL at coaches/teams that haven't won a SB, let alone appeared in won :doh:

Since name-calling has been condoned in this very thread, I've got to call you out son as the classic TWP sycophant. Nary do you pass up an opportunity to ecstatically agree with a mod, or two.

And there's lists long as the above of coaches who one with pretty mediocre QB's. So what? Obfuscation cannot change the win-loss record for this regime. But like I said somewhere earlier, let's watch the season unfold and the results will speak for themselves.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Oh the opinions of the internet.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Congratulations to the Goat. First poster I have ever placed on my ignore list in eight years. Every time his name shows up, I'll just assume he has posted some variation on "Shanahan sucks" and go from there.

But then I am just a sycophantic apologist after all.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=The Goat;957041]I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.[/quote]

Yeah why pay attention to people whose jobs it is to spend hours observing the team up close several days a week?

[quote]What I would point to, are some pretty insightful folks around here (not talking about myself here) who have pointed out the really, really questionable play-calls, play-designs. I think I see more of them, that's all. And the fact is Mike and Kyle, couldn't do ANYTHING with the offense w/o Griffin.[/quote]

But the folks here who point out the strong play calling and designs are just "apologists" right.

[quote]My intuition is that we'd probably have a bit more intelligent discussion/debate here if the Shanny regime doubters didn't get sh!t on, called stupid etc etc. I honestly wondered if that's why GTripp stopped contributing.[/quote]

Saying Shanahan has never done anything without Elway or that he befitted in playing in a weak division is incorrect and therefore a stupid opinion.

[quote]But again, whatevs, I don't really care if/when folks disagree w/ me, and that's why I continue to post and disagree when I want to. Not to say I haven't been wrong many a time about the Skins and lot's of other things. I admitted to being wrong when Landry had a good season w/ us, or was it half a season? And if someone named Shanahan starts winning in Washington I'll admit to being wrong on that too.[/quote]

You'll find some way to spin it. Just like you're spinning it now.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=GTripp0012;957057][B]There were a number of reasons why GTripp stopped contributing weekly breakdowns. [/B] With that said, everything I would have normally said in a breakdown I still pretty much say anyway. I just don't put it in a single post anymore.[/quote]

So ... we're referring to ourselves in the third person now? Well, JoeRedskin isn't sure that's warranted. JoeRedskin gives you props for your insights and critiques, but JoeRedskin thinks you might be havin' an inflated self-esteem moment. JoeRedskin does not approve. JoeRedskin might need to find JoeRedskin's stamp of shame.

Sorry, it's Saturday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet. Plus, this thread needed a little levity.

GTripp you da bomb.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;957075]So ... we're referring to ourselves in the third person now? Well, JoeRedskin isn't sure that's warranted. JoeRedskin gives you props for your insights and critiques, but JoeRedskin thinks you might be havin' an inflated self-esteem moment. JoeRedskin does not approve. JoeRedskin might need to find JoeRedskin's stamp of shame.

Sorry, it's Saturday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet. Plus, this thread needed a little levity.

GTripp you da bomb.[/quote][YT]tGuXxHTgdWk[/YT]

[QUOTE=The Goat;957041]I don't pay attention to what the mainstream media (be it political, sports, or otherwise) says. Too much money, business, etc wrapped into anything associated with NBC, Fox, ESPN, NFLN. For instance, RG3 is to a very large degree a "brand" the NFL and all associated parties want to promote i.e. I would never expect "them" to point out plays getting blown up because the opposing defense read it before the ball was snapped.
... [/QUOTE]
as a general skeptic of the media myself, I hear what you are trying to say, the only problem is it's not the right logical progression. Assuming the NFL and media outlets have branded Griffin the next Golden Goose, they would as you say minimize negative stories about him. The next logical step is to find the best scapegoat to put the blame on. In Washington over the years Snyder obviously would have been a perfect target, alas he has successfully backed off so that wouldn't stick. so next would be the Shanahans, and their playcalling. In fact, you could say McNabb got his job in part to take that role should it become necessary to protect Griffin and throw the Shanahans under the bus. But, when an offense is consistently ranking in the top, and is showcasing the Golden Goose's talent as rookie of the week talent nearly every week, the media hasn't felt the need to lambast the playcalling. It is running smmothly enough that the Golden Goose is having fun, and us fans ought to be enjoying it as well.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;957061]I get your point, but also keep in mind Belichiek won without Brady for a year and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and Mike McCarthy won with Bret Favre and Rodgers (so both those guys systems work) without their QBs. The other side of the argument is looking up stats of those coaches and see how they fared (like Walsh, Dungy, Levy, etc.) without a star QB. Shanahan without Elway was basically a guy that was just good enough to keep his job every year.[/quote]


WHo cares if they went 11-5 without Brady? They STILL missed the playoffs and were heavy favorites. Also, your point about McCarthy succeeding without Rodgers is invalid because you use Favre as an example. Last time I checked, Favre is one of the all-time greats, multiple MVP winner and a sure fire hall of famer. You didn't help your argument much.


Added:

Indeed, I believe wholeheartedly Favre saved McCarthy's ass from total failure with the Packers.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

Historically, it seems to me, dynasties get created with a mix of two things - great coaching and great QBs. Sometimes it's more QB than coach. Other times the reverse. This is true even before the modern era (Paul Brown/Otto Graham, Luckman/Halas, Flaherty/Baugh).

Seven games into this season, it appears we have one-half of the equation in RGIII. Shanahan has shown he can be the other half but the question is can he be that again.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;957089]Historically, it seems to me, dynasties get created with a mix of two things - great coaching and great QBs. Sometimes it's more QB than coach. Other times the reverse. This is true even before the modern era (Paul Brown/Otto Graham, Luckman/Halas, Flaherty/Baugh).

Seven games into this season, it appears we have one-half of the equation in RGIII. Shanahan has shown he can be the other half but the question is can he be that again.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for this. Goat you should really un-ignore him to read this. Lol. This is so true. The truth of the matter is that we all know RG-3 has shown he is quite capable of being a championship quarterback, or so it would seem after 7 frikkin games - wow. Shanny definitely still has something to prove and even most of the "apologists" have agreed that if the team is not a winning team by 2013-14 that maybe the game has passed him by.
Also I want to add that its not as simple as sitting here and going - walsh/ montana - bellicheck/ brady. Lets not forget that without a great gm that niners team isnt as good or what Beathard did for the skins. Everybody is forgetting key little areas of football teams that ALSO contribute to winning championships. The Chicago Bears in 85 and the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 were won because of DEFENSE. The Steel Curtain? The New York Giants vs Pats Version 1. The Skins had a dominant o-line that carried three different qb's to three super bowl titles. Its not so black and white as a coach and a qb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;957056]Insert "You're Wrong" video here.

Look at the records from 94-08. The Chargers, Chiefs and Oakland all had several strong seasons and the division had several seasons of multiple 10+ win teams.

Does either matter now? No. He's got back to back double digit losing seasons here. Does that mean he has done nothing right here? Nope.

It just means he needs to do some winning.[/quote]

I would think to prove your point, being a lawyer and all, you would know that an argument like that, if you are going to try and make it, holds little water. A much better argument would to take their out of division schedules during that time span, and see how they measure up. But I'd wager that might not support your argument, maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it would be a much better barometer of success, ie "actually being a good division", especially when alot of people consider the AFC West to be kinda crappy, especially when Shanahan was churning out near .500 ball in denver from around 2005 on. Another possible barometer would be his playoff wins. 1 in 14 years.............ughhhhhhhhhhh

BTW, shanny is 35 - 45 his last 80 games. Not that great.

Let the flaming begin.

[QUOTE=That Guy;957111]hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.[/QUOTE]

Look at how parcells had more success with belleckeck than he did without him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=That Guy;957111]hey guys, i've got a great idea! agree with me or you're an idiot!

it's so simple.

and as far as bill w/o brady, check out the cleveland years. he was terrible and got canned. pre brady he was 41-55. I don't know about you, but that just screams hall of fame to me.[/quote]

Quite the point.

It kinda feels good to know that if there is one exception to the "being a great coach, you still can't do much without a stud QB" policy, its our own joe gibbs, who in his second term, equaled in three years the # of playoff wins that Shanahan had over a 12 season period after his stud QB retired. I think that I might go so far as to say that even if we go to the playoffs this year, Shanahan still has not impressed.

With Elway, 3 straight years of deep playoff runs, 2 being super bowl victories.

The next 14 years = 1 playoff victory with no Elway or RG3

RG3's first year - Playoffs??????

See a "possible" prevailing theme here? Even going farther, Shanahan sucked eggs with Los Angeles for 2 years. Guess what? Jay Shroeder was his QB, Bo Jackson was his RB. Still didn't sniff the playoffs his first two years. Then, for 4 straight years upon coming to the Broncos, he has wonderful success. Then Elway retires, and he is a below average coach, whom the fan base in Denver hated so much and thought he was so bad, they were calling for the guys head his last 4 years there. And this is the coach that won 2 straight super bowls for them........Maybe the Denver fan base knew a little secret that noone else knew. That their long time coach was propped up legacy wise and career wise by John Elway, and after him, a ridiculously weak AFC West (regular season champs, postseason chumps). = OVERRATED.

If we do sneak into the playoffs, I still believe its due to RG3's will, and not Shanahans genius. I believe it would be in spite of Shanahan. But thats just MHO, and I will still root for our team.

LOVE YA JOE!!!!!!!!

Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mechanix544;957114]Quite the point.

It kinda feels good to know that if there is one exception to the "being a great coach, you still can't do much without a stud QB" policy, its our own joe gibbs, who in his second term, equaled in three years the # of playoff wins that Shanahan had over a 12 season period after his stud QB retired. I think that I might go so far as to say that even if we go to the playoffs this year, Shanahan still has not impressed.[/quote]

Might as well expand that out to be that if Shanny wins 5 SB's in a row, you wont be impressed. You dont like Shanny, so it will be all RG3 if we do.

[quote]With Elway, 3 straight years of deep playoff runs, 2 being super bowl victories.

The next 14 years = 1 playoff victory with no Elway or RG3

RG3's first year - Playoffs??????

See a "possible" prevailing theme here?[/quote]

Yes, there is a prevailing theme. Stud QB's make a helluva difference. Does these even need to be explained?

[quote]If we do sneak into the playoffs, I still believe its due to RG3's will, and not Shanahans genius. I believe it would be in spite of Shanahan. But thats just MHO, and I will still root for our team.

LOVE YA JOE!!!!!!!![/quote]

Oh look, more of the same. Again, you guys keep wanting us to ignore that most of what are considered great coaches won with great QB's. Yet you refuse to "see a prevailing theme" yourself.

You dropped in an edit:

[quote]Even going farther, Shanahan sucked eggs with Los Angeles for 2 years. Guess what? Jay Shroeder was his QB, Bo Jackson was his RB. Still didn't sniff the playoffs his first two years. Then, for 4 straight years upon coming to the Broncos, he has wonderful success. Then Elway retires, and he is a below average coach, whom the fan base in Denver hated so much and thought he was so bad, they were calling for the guys head his last 4 years there. And this is the coach that won 2 straight super bowls for them........Maybe the Denver fan base knew a little secret that noone else knew. That their long time coach was propped up legacy wise and career wise by John Elway, and after him, a ridiculously weak AFC West (regular season champs, postseason chumps). = OVERRATED.[/quote]

Are you actually calling Jay Schroeder a great QB? Ok you just lost all credibility. He was good for a year, then teams realized that all he could do was throw 50 yarders. He threw bullets for short passes and receivers always had trouble with them. Even McNabb could throw a screen, Schroeder could not. All he could do was chuck it deep down field. He was horrible as a QB, and once teams realized that you just drop 4 people 40 yards deep and use the other 7 to stop the run, Schroeder was never the same again. He had a tiny run where DC's didnt realize he couldnt throw anything except the bomb, a year later, Schroeder was done for in the NFL.

As to the Denver fan base being so intelligent. Werent they calling Tebow the next Elway? I thought so!! Tell me why im supposed to think that someone in Denver, other than Elway, has a clue about football. Btw, ask Elway about Shanny, the only guy in Denver with half a brain when it comes to football disagrees with your assessment. So if you choose to keep bringing them up, make sure you also claim that Tebow is the 2nd greatest QB ever behind Elway. Denver fans will.

It is not always stud QB's! My God. Phil Simms, Vince Mcmahon, Trent Dilfer, Joe T, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson. Thats just off the top of my head. Some coaches have won in this league without stud qb's. Belichik was the mastermind behind the Giants first superbowl victory. Shanny is a great judge of running backs his ZBS is genius when you look at the utter lack of talent that he has on his offensive lines. There are coaches that win without stud qb's though!!


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Re: Fred Davis Done for Season. Welcome Back Cooley
 

[quote=Mechanix544;957112]I would think to prove your point, being a lawyer and all, you would know that an argument like that, if you are going to try and make it, holds little water. A much better argument would to take their out of division schedules during that time span, and see how they measure up. But I'd wager that might not support your argument, maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it would be a much better barometer of success, ie "actually being a good division", especially when alot of people consider the AFC West to be kinda crappy, especially when Shanahan was churning out near .500 ball in denver from around 2005 on. Another possible barometer would be his playoff wins. 1 in 14 years.............ughhhhhhhhhhh

BTW, shanny is 35 - 45 his last 80 games. Not that great.

Let the flaming begin.[/quote]

First, aren't you the guy who blasted me for being [I]too[/I] lawyerly in my responses??

Second, and in short, I simply didn't intend to spend much time arguing Shanny's past b/c I think it, at best, only tangentially relevant to his current ability to succeed. As to his past, believe it or not, I think it cuts [I]both[/I] ways. He has had both success and failure. In addition, I had, and still have, serious concerns about his ability to construct a defense and his ability as a personnel guy. To me, those were the cause of his ultimate failure in Denver - along with his dictatorial ego.

With that said, however, to baldly assert that Shanny's record was built on a cake AFC West schedule [I]without[/I] citing records, opponents or other criteria, as was done, struck me as wrong. I remember: (1) KC as being pretty tough under Schotty and Vermeil, (2) SD having LT on the field for some of that time, and (3) Oakland winning [EDIT: appearing in] a SB somewhere in there. I simply did some quick checking on pro football reference and found, as I said, several years where the division had multiple 10+ win teams, which seemed to me to be an indicator that it wasn't quite the pushover Goat and others seem to think it was. In fact, one year (96 I think) no one in their division had a losing record (two 8-8's).

Was the AFC West a powerhouse top to bottom the entire time Shanny was there? No. But neither, as was implied, did Shanny build his record playing the 2012 Jax Jaguars. It was a good division that had solid teams. Shanahan's early successes, and again later with Plummer, give some evidence that he has the ability to succeed against solid competition. Can he still do so? He hasn't shown it yet.

Lawyerly enough for you?

[QUOTE=Bucket;957065]Oh the opinions of the internet.[/QUOTE]

Its a big research bank. It is ok to use it to back up your statements or form opinions based on said facts???


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[quote=punch it in;957119]It is not always stud QB's! My God. Phil Simms, Vince Mcmahon, Trent Dilfer, Joe T, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson. Thats just off the top of my head. Some coaches have won in this league without stud qb's. Belichik was the mastermind behind the Giants first superbowl victory. Shanny is a great judge of running backs his ZBS is genius when you look at the utter lack of talent that he has on his offensive lines. There are coaches that win without stud qb's though!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Phil Simms was actually a damn good QB. The WWE president was never a QB.

No one denies the defense that McMahon (the bears QB), Dilfer, or Johnson played with, they are some of the greatest defenses ever. The others are Joe Gibbs QB's, which Ive already stated is the greatest coach ever due to the fact that he could win without stud QB's. But winning without stud QB's is far and few between in the NFL, especially the current pass first NFL.

Although by saying that Belichick was the mastermind is to say that Parcells was a terrible coach, so yeah, cant say that I agree. I seriously doubt Parcells was just along for the Belichickian ride in NY. Something tells me Parcells was the main influence there.