Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028211]The one thing RG3 can do immediately to help turn this team around is to not commit two completely unforced turnovers.

Outside of that, none of this mess is on the quarterback.[/quote]

Unfortunately those are probably the two poorest plays of the games yesterday and hold the most scrutiny. Part of RG3 game which has grown this year is the check down, man he really knows how to pad the stat line.

Less RG3, more Alfmo and the running game. Not winning too many game throwing 50 times.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

No more liquor for firstdown today.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1028222]I mean how is it that the redskins get worse after a 10 win season?? It just sucks man, I was really looking forward to this year and it really seems like it's already over[/quote]

I get the offensive problems with griff coming back from injury, but the defense truly is epically bad. Most of these guys have been in this system 3 years and are starting thier fourth.

Terrible mess.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

Just a small bit of Info, Doc said this morning on the radio that Griffs interception was a great throw. He put the int more on Garcon then Griff.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1028243]I get the offensive problems with griff coming back from injury, but the defense truly is epically bad. Most of these guys have been in this system 3 years and are starting thier fourth.

Terrible mess.[/quote]

To me, the defense being a mess, is that really honest to god a surprise? Did we watch last year?

The surprise is the offense. Kyle is doing a terrible job, and like Garcon said today, RG3 is not healthy. Thats the main reason we need to run the ball.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028241]Unfortunately those are probably the two poorest plays of the games yesterday and hold the most scrutiny. Part of RG3 game which has grown this year is the check down, man he really knows how to pad the stat line.

Less RG3, more Alfmo and the running game. Not winning too many game throwing 50 times.[/quote]Sure, but you've got to pick your battles when criticizing an 0-3 team.

In my utopian world, my quarterback doesn't ever turn the ball over, and if he does, my depth chart is four deep with equally awesome players who won't turn the ball over, and every choice my coach makes always works.

In reality, even great players make bad decisions sometimes. Griffin has been guilty of the careless play this year. But I thought other than that, the team looked mostly fine yesterday. When you went into the year looking at ways they might lose at home to the Lions, the game that actually happened yesterday was pretty high up there on that list. In isolation, nothing at all to be concerned about.

But we're not looking at yesterday in isolation when we criticize Griffin's turnovers. We're looking at his game yesterday in the context as coming off the worst two game stretch of a Shanahan era that has been very underwhelming in it's totality. And thus the expectation falls on Griffin to not just be great, but to be as great as we need him to be, given declining teammates.

And that's how two careless turnovers go from "young players gonna young" to "totally unacceptable"

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1028244]Just a small bit of Info, Doc said this morning on the radio that Griffs interception was a great throw. He put the int more on Garcon then Griff.[/quote]

What? that's effing retarded. horrible rex-like int where the ball needed to be thrown away.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

Here is a solution to 2 of our defensive problems.

1. Remove London Fletcher as ILB
2. Install him as the new Defensive Coordinator immediately

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

If you want to wait for Griffin to be truly, 100% back to the level of athlete he was last season, that means sitting him out for the entire season. A full Derrick Rose.

But for practical purposes in terms of functioning as an athlete at a high level, the guy is fine. No issues throwing the football or gaining velocity in open space. There's a limited amount of explosion in the knee. But: he's a quarterback. There's more explosion in that rehabbing knee than Peyton Manning has, and Manning's making out okay.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028246]Sure, but you've got to pick your battles when criticizing an 0-3 team.

In my utopian world, my quarterback doesn't ever turn the ball over, and if he does, my depth chart is four deep with equally awesome players who won't turn the ball over, and every choice my coach makes always works.

In reality, even great players make bad decisions sometimes. Griffin has been guilty of the careless play this year. But I thought other than that, the team looked mostly fine yesterday. When you went into the year looking at ways they might lose at home to the Lions, the game that actually happened yesterday was pretty high up there on that list. In isolation, nothing at all to be concerned about.

But we're not looking at yesterday in isolation when we criticize Griffin's turnovers. We're looking at his game yesterday in the context as coming off the worst two game stretch of a Shanahan era that has been very underwhelming in it's totality. And thus the expectation falls on Griffin to not just be great, but to be as great as we need him to be, given declining teammates.

[B]And that's how two careless turnovers go from "young players gonna young" to "totally unacceptable[/B]"[/quote]

U did see the 2 other shoulda been picked throws and fumbled snaps/scramble plays?

RG3 needs to take care of the ball much better.

PS First, that ball was thrown perfect to Robinson.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028249]If you want to wait for Griffin to be truly, 100% back to the level of athlete he was last season, that means sitting him out for the entire season. A full Derrick Rose.

But for practical purposes in terms of functioning as an athlete at a high level, the guy is fine. No issues throwing the football or gaining velocity in open space. There's a limited amount of explosion in the knee. But: he's a quarterback. There's more explosion in that rehabbing knee than Peyton Manning has, and Manning's making out okay.[/quote]

I think 90% would be good, but dont think he's there. I see less velocity in his throws

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=firstdown;1028240]Talking about the one he dropped. That pass was under thrown and probably the reason it was dropped.[/quote]

It was dropped because Robinson dropped it. Not because it was under thrown by a yard.

That was a NFL throw, it is not going to be perfect but it was still a good throw and most receivers in the NFL make that catch. I've seen elite quarterbacks make similar throws and receivers come down with it.

RG3 hasn't been great, and unless the Skins have a great QB, this team is mediocre at best... and calling them mediocre is generous in my opinion.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028242]No more liquor for firstdown today.[/quote]

Agreed that was a thing of beauty.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028250]U did see the 2 other shoulda been picked throws and fumbled snaps/scramble plays?

RG3 needs to take care of the ball much better.

PS First, that ball was thrown perfect to Robinson.[/quote]The snap that hit Logan Paulsen is a better example of the kind of crap that Griffin is dealing with than the fact that he had to save the play.

Also: terrible game management at the end of the game, a Shanahan staple. Could have kicked a FG to cut the lead to seven with 2:20 to play, with plenty of time to get the ball back. Instead, ran about six more plays, got down to the five yard line with 1:40 to go, and THEN kicked anyway when the Redskins absolutely needed a TD. Just so stupid. Only thing missing from that sequence was a wasted timeout because we couldn't get a play in in-time.

Pickin our battles.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsnut;1028248]Here is a solution to 2 of our defensive problems.

1. Remove London Fletcher as ILB
2. Install him as the new Defensive Coordinator immediately[/quote]

I think your half right.


But seriously, the defense and the defensive strategy needs to come from a new voice. Im on the bandwagon to replace Haslett the bye week. Id promote Raheem.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028251]I think 90% would be good, but dont think he's there. I see less velocity in his throws[/quote]I don't, but it's a hard thing to measure. If you think 90% and I think 100%, we're both probably seeing what we want to. 90% and 100% both qualify as "just fine"

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028239]Cap penalty or no cap penalty, a football team can choose it's veterans. You're stuck with the young talent you bring in because of rookie contracts and the waivers system, but the veteran market is different. You can always save money by cutting.

If the players in their first three seasons were struggling, and that's why the team was 0-3, you might suggest that the cap penalty was limiting the team from getting enough talent to compete. But the young players who were drafted have been thrust into the lineup almost immediately and have more than held their own.

If you make a list of guys who aren't helping, you get Fletcher and Meriweather near the top, but also Fred Davis, Will Montgomery, Tyler Polumbus, Stephen Bowen, Adam Carriker, and probably Josh Morgan (though I'm feeling more charatable yesterday after AlfMo's TD run). There's just a ton of cap dollars tied up there that have nothing to do with the penalty.[/quote]
I don't think your last sentence/paragraph is particularly accurate, the cap penalty not only limits spending, but precludes "arbitrary" use of dead space. We could have cut one or two of the players you listed, but it would have forced more restructures that the team obviously wanted to avoid. I am also surprised to see Bowen in your list, because my understanding is his play hasn't been in the category of Meriweather/Davis/Carriker, and once Jenkins/Jackson are back in the rotation, I imagine our front will have a better rotation to it.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028254]The snap that hit Logan Paulsen is a better example of the kind of crap that Griffin is dealing with than the fact that he had to save the play.

Also: terrible game management at the end of the game, a Shanahan staple. Could have kicked a FG to cut the lead to seven with 2:20 to play, with plenty of time to get the ball back. Instead, ran about six more plays, got down to the five yard line with 1:40 to go, and THEN kicked anyway when the Redskins absolutely needed a TD. Just so stupid. Only thing missing from that sequence was a wasted timeout because we couldn't get a play in in-time.

Pickin our battles.[/quote]

What changes you making at the bye week?

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028245]To me, the defense being a mess, is that really honest to god a surprise? Did we watch last year?

The surprise is the offense. Kyle is doing a terrible job, and like Garcon said today, RG3 is not healthy. Thats the main reason we need to run the ball.[/quote]

When did garçon say he wasn't healthy? I thought that was last week, and I disagree with the guy he looked alot healthier yesterday than he did in weeks 16,17, and wildcard game last year.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

While 0-3 is a very bitter pill to swallow and there have been precious few things to cheer about the last three weeks, in reviewing these posts and the myriad suggestions ranging from fire Mike/Kyle/Haz/all coaches to cut Fred/Rak/Fletch, etc., it strikes me that even as uninspired as the team has looked, we've collectively got to chill (and I include myself in that category).

This season was going to involve some risk -- especially early -- for the simple reasons that (a) we were facing RGIII recovery and related transition back to full speed, (b) we were facing a complete unknown in the Eagles team in week 1, (c) we were facing a very good Packer team (at least, offensively), in Green Bay where it is very hard to win, and (d) we are starting two rookies in the secondary who, let's face it, still need time to develop from NFL prospects to NFL players. We were probably destined to have a slow start -- 2-2 wouldn't have been a bad start and we could finish just one game behind that at the bye. Also, even though we're 0-3, the Giants are too, the Eagles are 1-2, and Dallas is a very beatable 2-1; we have 5 division games left. That Green Bay, Atlanta, and SF are 1-2 -- all good teams -- should signal that even good teams are going to take their share of lumps. Heck, SF got schooled at home by the Colts -- a game that you know Harbaugh wanted badly to win. Winning in the NFL is just plain hard.

So back to our team, if the team can get on track with a win in Oakland (which would have looked like a lock to me, and I think we will still do), and get some personnel back (Jackson, Jenkins -- solid players for us on D last year where we need the most help) and some injuries behind them (Davis, Rambo) during the bye, we ought to be in a position to at least compete.

BUT, that also will depend on, in my view, three important things: (1) the team needs to get its fire back -- it is amazing to me how they're lost that "us against the wrold" mentality from the end of last season, as though winning the NFC East and the other teams in the division looking weak would translate into guaranteed success this year -- we need some player leadership here, and soon -- no one plays with attitude or a mean streak -- want to know what I mean? watch Richard Sherman -- I hate the guy, but he brings it every play and wants to dominate you and rub it in; (2) they have got to make better adjustments on both sides of the ball (and not wait until halftime to do it) -- the coaching needs to improve on both sides of the ball; and (3) fundamentals, fundamentals -- hang on to the football, wrap folks up when tackling, avoid the stupid penalties, and otherwise play like you're up against a superior adversary every week and thus need to have your A game (because, at least so far, that's actually been the case).

I can still see us salvaging the season -- maybe the playoffs are out of reach, and maybe they're not. But I would settle for a one week at a time approach where we focus like a laser on just getting a win.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

Playing in the pocket more will make him better in the long run, he needs this.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028258]What changes you making at the bye week?[/quote]It kinda depends on the Oakland game to determine how deep the problems are. If they look like they did in the Detroit game, they'll win and we're pretty much on track with last season's darkest moment. Not pretty, but fixable.

If they look like they did in the first two games, they'll lose at Oakland, and we've vastly overrated the team.

So depending on that, I'd probably dump both coordinators at the bye, and give Mike Shanahan all the resources he needs to improve the state of the organization over the following twelve weeks. No need for him to scout college players in anticipation of next draft: I've got a personnel department for that, and chances are the person in charge of the draft next year isn't in the organization. So that allows Shanahan to call the offense.

I'd probably start to IR some veterans. Fred Davis and Brandon Meriweather. I'd continue the "rotate Fletcher" plan until that position solves itself. Move towards a lot more man coverage on defense. Take advantage of great waiver position while you have it. The defensive front is going to get some guys back here, so I'm not that worried about it. The secondary isn't going to get guys back, but the system is also designed to not require the most talented of DBs, so it's possible we could find short or long term solutions on the waiver wire.

I'd take Chris Thompson off punt and kick returns.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1028257]I don't think your last sentence/paragraph is particularly accurate, the cap penalty not only limits spending, but precludes "arbitrary" use of dead space. We could have cut one or two of the players you listed, but it would have forced more restructures that the team obviously wanted to avoid. I am also surprised to see Bowen in your list, because my understanding is his play hasn't been in the category of Meriweather/Davis/Carriker, and once Jenkins/Jackson are back in the rotation, I imagine our front will have a better rotation to it.[/quote]No, Bowen hasn't been underperforming (or not performing) like Meriweather, Davis, Carriker have, but he's in a different pay grade. Cofield is in that pay grade, but Cofield is arguably our most dependable defensive player, a lever of performance you expect for $6 mil/year.

My point is not that the cap penalty isn't constraining the team at some level, it clearly is, but rather that at the rate we waste money, $18 million extra in cap space isn't buying us a 2-1 start or even a 1-2 start. It probably makes Baccari Rambo a backup, but I really think that for the most part the coaches to a man would vouch for the roster they built. It's strictly a player selection issue: these vets we have are not the very best that were available to us.

The draft pick value we gave up in the RG3 trade constrained the organization a lot worse than the cap penalty did.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

My final note before moving on to the Oakland game.. I hope we never play Detroit again when they are on an 0-?? streak. We embarassingly lost to break their winless streak over 2+ seasons and then their 21 game streak in Washington. Ugh.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028247]What? that's effing retarded. horrible rex-like int where the ball needed to be thrown away.[/quote]

Agreed, not sure what Doc was looking at. Griff should have thrown it in the stands.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=firstdown;1028240]Talking about the one he dropped. That pass was under thrown and probably the reason it was dropped.[/quote]

Robinson needs to make that play, it hit him right in the freakin' hands.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1028259]When did garçon say he wasn't healthy? I thought that was last week, and I disagree with the guy he looked alot healthier yesterday than he did in weeks 16,17, and wildcard game last year.[/quote]

Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/rg3-blames-stupid-rule-for-his-fumble-it-just-sucks/]RG3 blames “stupid rule” for his fumble: “It just sucks” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1028272][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/rg3-blames-stupid-rule-for-his-fumble-it-just-sucks/]RG3 blames “stupid rule” for his fumble: “It just sucks” | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Nope that fumble is 100% on him. really stupid play by rg3.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028273]Nope that fumble is 100% on him. really stupid play by rg3.[/quote]

I have to agree with you on that. No reason why Griffin couldn't have just slid feet first. Even if he lost the football, he would have been ruled down.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028271]Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.[/quote]

Chris Russell tweeted saying that Garcon said RG3 is not fully healthy and last years RG3 was a lot different than this years RG3.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028271]Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.[/quote]To be honest, I'm just surprised that some event hasn't come up yet that has moved one or both Shanahan's on from the organization. I've never thought it would be a firing, but in the business world, they call it "reorganization!" or "new opportunity!"

Mike's the highest paid/year guy in the entire org after Garcon. No other player is making 7 mil/year. And because it's fully guaranteed, he's the guy I stick with the mess he created and tell him to clean it up. But unlike the Zorn fiasco, I want him to actually have the resources to make a real difference on the field this year. If he needs to go get a player like Josh Gordon, then he should be able to go get a player like Josh Gordon.

Basically, the solution is you take a sledgehammer to the team's power structure, and hope that someone already in the building can find the ingenuity to bring the team back from the abyss. If it works, great, you can rebuild the staff in the offseason under Lord Shanahan and remove all the interim tags. If it doesn't work, then you know you need new leadership at the top.

And with Griffin under contract, it's the most single lucrative job in the NFL. Bruce Allen will get all the best candidates to interview, should it come to that.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=chewman;1028275]Chris Russell tweeted saying that Garcon said RG3 is not fully healthy and last years RG3 was a lot different than this years RG3.[/quote]

I don't think any of us needed garçon or a reporter tell us that, but the fact a player in the locker room is saying it publicly could become a problem the team doesn't need.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

We are still a middle of the road team, and will end that way at the end of the season. We didn't exactly make huge improvements to our defense because of the cap issues. We are still haunted by the Snyder Era, and we have a questionable Defensive Cord.

I will say, Barnett looked really good yesterday in the second half. Fletcher was played well on the earlier downs, but I wouldn't be surprised if Barnett was on the field more then Fletcher.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1028278]I don't think any of us needed garçon or a reporter tell us that, but the fact a player in the locker room is saying it publicly could become a problem the team doesn't need.[/quote]

I read it on WaPo, it sounds like it was an interview question. I agree, I don't think it comes as a surprise to anyone at this juncture that Robert is not the same.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1028276]To be honest, I'm just surprised that some event hasn't come up yet that has moved one or both Shanahan's on from the organization. I've never thought it would be a firing, but in the business world, they call it "reorganization!" or "new opportunity!"

Mike's the highest paid/year guy in the entire org after Garcon. No other player is making 7 mil/year. And because it's fully guaranteed, he's the guy I stick with the mess he created and tell him to clean it up. But unlike the Zorn fiasco, I want him to actually have the resources to make a real difference on the field this year. If he needs to go get a player like Josh Gordon, then he should be able to go get a player like Josh Gordon.

Basically, the solution is you take a sledgehammer to the team's power structure, and hope that someone already in the building can find the ingenuity to bring the team back from the abyss. If it works, great, you can rebuild the staff in the offseason under Lord Shanahan and remove all the interim tags. If it doesn't work, then you know you need new leadership at the top.

And with Griffin under contract, it's the most single lucrative job in the NFL. Bruce Allen will get all the best candidates to interview, should it come to that.[/quote]

You do Cousins for Josh Gordon? id strongly consider it.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Bucket;1028279]We are still a middle of the road team, and will end that way at the end of the season. We didn't exactly make huge improvements to our defense because of the cap issues. [B]We are still haunted by the Snyder Era[/B], and we have a questionable Defensive Cord.

I will say, Barnett looked really good yesterday in the second half. Fletcher was played well on the earlier downs, but I wouldn't be surprised if Barnett was on the field more then Fletcher.[/quote]

Your saying that as if he has sold the team and we are recovering.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028281]You do Cousins for Josh Gordon? id strongly consider it.[/quote]In a heartbeat. It's Lombardi though, so I'd ask him to throw in a second rounder.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028273]Nope that fumble is 100% on him. really stupid play by rg3.[/quote]

He was sliding forward trying to make a play. Not gonna kill him for that. The ground caused the fumble. It should be our ball. That's just a terrible rule. Now the INT? That was a stupid play and all on RG3.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

Something has to be shaken up on defense. 0-3 and this whole team is virtually healthy. Has and Kyle need to change things up or we need to change from them.

On to Oakland and to accomplish the impossible task of being 10-6 to make our only chance of getting to the playoffs by winning the division.