Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1095213]Jay needs to shut up and coach this team. The offense wasn't thrilling anyone while RG3 was out and was the biggest reason the team lost.[/quote]

Both rg3 and jay need to shut up and produce on the field. Show me on the field both belong to be here leading the greatest sports franchise in world. That is it, pretty simple

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1095220]Both rg3 and jay need to shut up and produce on the field. Show me on the field both belong to be here leading the greatest sports franchise in world. That is it, pretty simple[/quote]

:food-smil

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1095213]Jay needs to shut up and coach this team. The offense wasn't thrilling anyone while RG3 was out and was the biggest reason the team lost.[/QUOTE]


In the four losses this team suffered while Griff was out the defense allowed 37,45,27,30.
The offense , with RG-3 playing has scored - 6 points and 7 points in two of his three games. I repeat, 6 points and 7 points. They absolutely lit it up against the Jags and the Birds.
Edit: I will also add that the offense (without Robert) put up 20 points against the Cards. Doesnt sound like much until you look at the Cards game results. Only Denver scored more than that against them this year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095216]Almost a certainty better HC prospects will be available, the questions are whether they'd come here and work for/with Snyder and Allen, and will Snyder/Allen pull the trigger anyway.

Jay is here for one reason, the Jon and Bruce connection. Jay has never shown much with x's and o's, and his constant resistance to running the ball doesn't really fit our offensive personnel to begin with. And after 9 games, it's ugly obvious he's not a leader of men. This is the worst disciplined and prepared team I've seen in pro football since Zorn's 2nd year. Jay got there in half a season!![/quote]

I wonder almost every day how/why we continue to get HC prospects. Honestly, unless a guy is just coming here to get the big bucks for a few years, why even waste your time?

Everyone hated on Shanahan and said how he was torpedoing the team, how he had it in for Griffin and was hindering him, and now all this shit comes out that Shanahan was right all along and didn't want to play Griffin but had no choice (Snyder).

Now Jay Gruden seems like a guy that tells it like it is but seeing him be anti- Griffin is only going to get him fired. I'll go on a limb and say the very act of benching Griffin for any reason at this point would likely get Gruden fired at the end of the year.

Never felt more desperate as a fan. We will just never win with Snyder as the owner. Even more with Bruce Allen as the GM....it's just a hopeless situation

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1095213]Jay needs to shut up and coach this team. The offense wasn't thrilling anyone while RG3 was out and was the biggest reason the team lost.[/quote]

There are two film breakdowns showing wide open receivers on multiple plays in the TB game. A few game changers and many first downs.
There is one play shown in a breakdown where every receiver on the field was open. These plays resulted in sacks, interceptions, and incompletions.
Alfmo almost had 100 yards.

What should be the goals on offense?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1095244]There are two film breakdowns showing wide open receivers on multiple plays in the TB game. A few game changers and many first downs.
There is one play shown in a breakdown where every receiver on the field was open. These plays resulted in sacks, interceptions, and incompletions.
Alfmo almost had 100 yards.

What should be the goals on offense?[/quote]

Stop making sense.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

There is already chatter going around that Jay may be a 1 and done? If that's the truth I'm done with this team

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1095270]There is already chatter going around that Jay may be a 1 and done? If that's the truth I'm done with this team[/quote]

I always say "If they do this... I am done with the team." But something they do always brings me back and gives me hope.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I like Gruden. Dude doesn't smoke screen us in interviews and lets the public know what he really thinks. Does that make him a good coach? Absolutely not, but I get the feeling the guy knows what he's doing. But I also feel like he's trying to metaphorically make a six million dollar man out of a trash can and two Popsicle sticks.

Ergo, he's not working with much. Outside of the usual players we know and love and constantly name (Kerrigan, Alfmo, T. Williams, DJax, Garcon, Breeland etc) what else do we really have? Players are constantly injured, we have a bunch of awful and/or inconsistent and/or constantly injured and/or players just taking up roster space on the team (Polumbus, Orakpo, Reed, Paulsen, Hankerson, Chester, Neild even though I liked him, Biggers, Porter... you get the idea) and somehow we still have almost NO depth at any position.

Long story short, this better not be a 1 and done year for Gruden.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=donofriose;1095271]I always say "If they do this... I am done with the team." But something they do always brings me back and gives me hope.[/QUOTE]

Me too...

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=donofriose;1095271]I always say "If they do this... I am done with the team." But something they do always brings me back and gives me hope.[/quote]

Q: When is having hope detrimental to mental health?

A: When you're a [U]Redskins Fan[/U]!

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1095272]I like Gruden. Dude doesn't smoke screen us in interviews and lets the public know what he really thinks. Does that make him a good coach? Absolutely not, but I get the feeling the guy knows what he's doing. But I also feel like he's trying to metaphorically make a six million dollar man out of a trash can and two Popsicle sticks.

Ergo, he's not working with much. Outside of the usual players we know and love and constantly name (Kerrigan, Alfmo, T. Williams, DJax, Garcon, Breeland etc) what else do we really have? Players are constantly injured, we have a bunch of awful and/or inconsistent and/or constantly injured and/or players just taking up roster space on the team (Polumbus, Orakpo, Reed, Paulsen, Hankerson, Chester, Neild even though I liked him, Biggers, Porter... you get the idea) and somehow we still have almost NO depth at any position.

Long story short, this better not be a 1 and done year for Gruden.[/quote]

The Redskins were not Jay's first choice and he had serious reservations about taking the job. But there are only so many NFL Head Coach openings available each year and the opportunity is ultimately too much to pass up.

My point though, is that Jay-unlike many others-had intimate knowledge of the situation here even before he interviewed. So almost none of this should come as a surprise. The one surprise to him, the one major surprise, is that he really thought Griffin was further along than he actually is. Even though his own brother told him he wasn't

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095276]The Redskins were not Jay's first choice and he had serious reservations about taking the job. But there are only so many NFL Head Coach openings available each year and the opportunity is ultimately too much to pass up.

My point though, is that Jay-unlike many others-had intimate knowledge of the situation here even before he interviewed. So almost none of this should come as a surprise. The one surprise to him, the one major surprise, is that he really thought Griffin was further along than he actually is. Even though his own brother told him he wasn't[/quote]

I wonder if he's regretting the decision now.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1095204]1. What matters most to us, as fans, is winning the next game. That is not necessarily true of an NFL owner. Dan Snyder may hope to build a winner but perhaps he expects it to take longer than we would like - AND I'm sure that he would like to do it with the very marketable RGIII as his QB.

2. [B]Like you, I also don't want the owner and GM dictating to the coach who he should start. Unfortunately for us, I'm pretty sure that Snyder and Allen don't care about our opinions on that matter. They will use their authority as they see fit.

What I'm trying to say to you is that you might as well accept that there is going to continue to be some degree of interference with Coach Gruden's plans by higher management[/B].[/quote]

How long of banging your head against the wall and hurting yourself (14 years?) before you try something different. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result. Just saying.
If Dan Snyder had a boss, DS would have been fired a long time ago....for incompetence.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1095277]I wonder if he's regretting the decision now.[/quote]

Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095280]Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?[/quote]

Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095280]Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?[/quote]

I can't say for sure honestly. I haven't viewed any of his press conferences, the most news I get about him is from here and from video snippets I see here and there. He seems frustrated definitely, I know it's usually aimed at RG3 but I'm not sure if it's RG3, the players or the entire organization from top to bottom that is the core cause of the frustration. Like I said, I like the guy a lot, I hope he doesn't quit on us or that Snyder doesn't quit on him but by the way it seems to be going, this isn't going to end amicably whenever it does end.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095280]Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?[/quote]

Solely based on the fact of the QB situation? If he had knowledge of the other stuff...? Jay seems tough, hope he wouldn't let this affect him. Bottom line, half the league seems to have questions at qb, even teams destined for the playoffs; this situation isn't all that different somewhere else is my point.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Can anyone think of any head coach who has started out his HC career like this and been able to turn it around with the same team and win Super Bowls? This makes me nervous, what if it's Jay who decides to leave after the season because he's not up to a total rebuild job with RG3?

I definitely feel like we're looking at a total rebuild job with RG3. I don't expect him to come out this week and suddenly look like he's got it, and I honestly don't expect that to happen at all this season. We might get lucky here and there, but if there's any hope at all at salvaging RG3's potential I think we have to commit for the long haul (aka 1+ season wasted). What if JG isn't up to that? All I can think is that if JG bails on us after a year we are set back for 1-3 years of failure, especially if the franchise bails on RG3. I'm honestly starting to think the "rebuild RG3" option with at least 1 wasted season might be our best chance at getting back our shot at true long term success with the least amount of time wasted.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095283]Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.[/quote]

I don't. Not yet at least.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=mooby;1095286][B]Can anyone think of any head coach who has started out his HC career like this and been able to turn it around with the same team and win Super Bowls? [/B]This makes me nervous, what if it's Jay who decides to leave after the season because he's not up to a total rebuild job with RG3?

I definitely feel like we're looking at a total rebuild job with RG3. I don't expect him to come out this week and suddenly look like he's got it, and I honestly don't expect that to happen at all this season. We might get lucky here and there, but if there's any hope at all at salvaging RG3's potential I think we have to commit for the long haul (aka 1+ season wasted). What if JG isn't up to that? All I can think is that if JG bails on us after a year we are set back for 1-3 years of failure, especially if the franchise bails on RG3. I'm honestly starting to think the "rebuild RG3" option with at least 1 wasted season might be our best chance at getting back our shot at true long term success with the least amount of time wasted.[/quote]

Jimmy Johnson in Dallas comes to mind but his circumstances were different than Brother of Chucky's.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

The problem is RG3 not JG.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=redskin37;1095289]The problem is RG3 not JG.[/QUOTE]
True but that's not the way Dan Snyder will see it at the end of the season

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095287]I don't. Not yet at least.[/quote]

That is good news and speaks well of Snyder and Allen. I don't know what to think of Allen as GM though.

Seems like you have more inside knowledge than anyone here, did you know if Snyder had high expectations for this season?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095283]Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.[/quote]

On what are you basing the conclusion that he is in over his head in terms of leadership and knowledge?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1095284]I can't say for sure honestly. I haven't viewed any of his press conferences, the most news I get about him is from here and from video snippets I see here and there. He seems frustrated definitely, I know it's usually aimed at RG3 but I'm not sure if it's RG3, the players or the entire organization from top to bottom that is the core cause of the frustration. Like I said, I like the guy a lot, I hope he doesn't quit on us or that Snyder doesn't quit on him but by the way it seems to be going, this isn't going to end amicably whenever it does end.[/quote]

FWIW I think Jay is frustrated with a few peeps.....but not all or so it appears to me. Busting Roberts chops.....I hope is an attempt to break him off the Superstar mentality and rebuild him (much like the Marine Corps is famous for) in the offseason. Teach how to be a successful QB that he is capable of being. The kid is just to talented and smart to hit the Jeff George road....

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095293]That is good news and speaks well of Snyder and Allen. I don't know what to think of Allen as GM though.

Seems like you have more inside knowledge than anyone here, did you know if Snyder had high expectations for this season?[/quote]

I mean, he always does

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095299]I mean, he always does[/quote]

I would expect that from the owner, but the question is, does he know why they suck? That's where the disconnect is with danny boy.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1095295]On what are you basing the conclusion that he is in over his head in terms of leadership and knowledge?[/quote]

Well this is oversimplified but I look at knowledge based on how a coaches group performs. Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points. His playoff performance is really lousy, playcalling lost cincy the playoffs last year. Giving up on the run going into the 2nd half of the game with a lead. Heard lots of football guys criticize Gruden after that. Now his group here is ranked about 26th in points.

So I hope we didn't recruit Jay for his x's anc o's. The other factor is leadership and he's failed worse there. If the supporting cast around RG was playing well Jay might have a case, but the whole offense looks unprepared and undisciplined. And now the drama, which he's in neck deep. If Jay was a leader the players would ball regardless of the QB. That's what well coached teams do. They also come out sharp after a bye.

Just as a comparison, look at the Cards. No stability at QB, injury ridden roster on both sides of the ball, very similar overall talent to what Grudens working with. I mean Larry Foote, at vet min I'm pretty sure, is playing the best of his career. Superb coaching. 9-1.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I wish I had a withering retort for that, but I don't. <sigh>

I still have faith in Gruden, but it's mostly based off the fact that he inherited a sh*tty team and needs time. He's won everywhere else he's been...

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1095303]I wish I had a withering retort for that, but I don't. <sigh>

I still have faith in Gruden, but it's mostly based off the fact that he inherited a sh*tty team and needs time. He's won everywhere else he's been...[/quote]

Well don't get me wrong, Jay is a likable guy, and he took over a crazy train. And he's our coach. Nothing wrong with rooting for him.

Gruden and RG should set their shit aside and realize the best case scenario is to win together.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095302]Well this is oversimplified but I look at knowledge based on how a coaches group performs. Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points. His playoff performance is really lousy, playcalling lost cincy the playoffs last year. Giving up on the run going into the 2nd half of the game with a lead. Heard lots of football guys criticize Gruden after that. Now his group here is ranked about 26th in points.

So I hope we didn't recruit Jay for his x's anc o's. The other factor is leadership and he's failed worse there. If the supporting cast around RG was playing well Jay might have a case, but the whole offense looks unprepared and undisciplined. And now the drama, which he's in neck deep. If Jay was a leader the players would ball regardless of the QB. That's what well coached teams do. They also come out sharp after a bye.

Just as a comparison, look at the Cards. No stability at QB, injury ridden roster on both sides of the ball, very similar overall talent to what Grudens working with. I mean Larry Foote, at vet min I'm pretty sure, is playing the best of his career. Superb coaching. 9-1.[/quote]

Playcalling performance? Last 5 Cincy home games of 2013 they scored 49, 41, 41, 42 34. They scored 10 points in the home playoff game against San Diego.

Gruden's offense knew how to put up points. They played a bad game with Dalton having THREE turnovers. Going 17 for 34 and passing for 170.

I heard a lot of "football guys" criticize Andy Dalton for turning into a turnover machine when the pressure is on.

A "lot of football guys" always criticize everything when you lose. Football is situational. Having some vague criticism of abandoning the run without more is just kind of silly.

San Diego's defense was balling during that game too. They sacked Dalton 6 times behind that elite offensive line. I'm sure you have the game film and Jay was calling 7 step drop after 7 step drop though

I'm not a "football guy" but I know when there is a film breakdown with video showing a play where every single receiver on the field is wide freakin open (against Tampa Bay) and our QB can't hit any of them, then the x's and o's might not be the problem bro. Beyond that single play, there was play after play where the film showed open receivers.

When our receivers are getting open on the plays the coaches are calling and Alfmo is running for nearly 100 yards it isn't x's and o's.

But if he were to turn into Vince Lombardi and become a leader of men then our QB could read the right side of the field and throw to one of the two or three or four or five open receivers? Silly Silly Silly.

Arizona has the 2nd ranked D in the league in points per game. Don't have a problem with big changes on that side of the ball. The one issue that our defense has not had a problem with is effort. The effort is good, the execution is terrible.

I have also heard a lot of "football guys" say that winning removes any question about leadership. Unless you have some sort of secret squirrel access to the team and are observing his interaction with players then you, are getting a mere snippet of his "leadership".

Leaders don't lead from behind a podium and that is the singular view that we as fans have of Jay.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Snyder created this mess, he should get more blame then griffin.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095302]Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points.
[/quote]

Went back and looked at the rankings. Your assertion is just flat out wrong.

Gruden's offenses while in Cincy ranked as follows in points per game stat:

2011 20th
2012 12th
2013 6th

He showed steady improvement every year he was there. I would love to have that kind of trend on either side of the ball.

Do you think if we heavily invested in the same positions he could duplicate his performance in Cincy?

I think so. Instead of blowing everything up it may be smart to do as you suggest and invest heavily in the same positions. We have the same number of draft picks and the same salary cap as Cincy had. (We do now anyways.)

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hog1;1095296]FWIW I think Jay is frustrated with a few peeps.....but not all or so it appears to me. Busting Roberts chops.....I hope is an attempt to break him off the Superstar mentality and rebuild him (much like the Marine Corps is famous for) in the offseason. Teach how to be a successful QB that he is capable of being. The kid is just to talented and smart to hit the Jeff George road....[/quote]

I disagree. He's not talented, or doesn't have a top skill set to be a great QB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1095334]Went back and looked at the rankings. Your assertion is just flat out wrong.

Gruden's offenses while in Cincy ranked as follows in points per game stat:

2011 20th
2012 12th
2013 6th

He showed steady improvement every year he was there. I would love to have that kind of trend on either side of the ball.

Do you think if we heavily invested in the same positions he could duplicate his performance in Cincy?

I think so. Instead of blowing everything up it may be smart to do as you suggest and invest heavily in the same positions. We have the same number of draft picks and the same salary cap as Cincy had. (We do now anyways.)[/quote]

Yeah bud I missed 2013 stat, is that what you're referring to? Nothing personal on my end hope your day gets better.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1095345]Yeah bud I missed 2013 stat, is that what you're referring to? Nothing personal on my end hope your day gets better.[/quote]

No worries. Sorry.

Haha. Me too. We'll see at 4:25.

I'm really mad because I see Sunday ticket on the bill every month and we have 3 wins.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I like Gruden. He's got a hell of a job. As for RG3 and whether he's our qb of the future or not, I'm so over the drama it's only hurt in our franchise and made it a big joke. These boards this year have been so negative it's awful.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I believe in Gruden. He's sitting in a situation he never would have imagined when signing on here and he's handling it well, as much as people don't believe.

He's exactly what the Redskins as a franchise need.

He's not going to let a QB, who's been in the league less than 3 years, run his team.

He's not going to allow anybody who misses team meetings (Amerson) to play on Sunday. Even if we're hurting at that position.

He's also not guaranteeing anybody a job because they're starters this year. Each and every player on this roster is going to EARN their spot. (Seattle anybody??)

We finally have a coach who is going to set the tone and get his players to respect and buy in to HIM. This is a team sport and he's not going to allow any players to rise above that fact.

Anybody who wants to get rid of Gruden needs to realize that this is what we've done for the past 15 years and where are we? We FINALLY have a competent coach who can motivate (the right) players. Getting rid of him starts yet ANOTHER rebuild which we don't need.

We need consistency and cohesiveness. Gruden can establish that.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

When he put Colt Mc Coy in, he will seal his own fate.