Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1125970]IDK..not letting Gruden off the hook completely, in the end he's judged by his record. Just seems more like a talent issue.[/QUOTE]


But its the same talent in all four quarters? In I believe all 6 games we have been thoroughly outdone in the third quarter. Other teams are coming out and adjusting against whatever we are doing in the first half and we are not. If it were mainly about talent we would just be getting beat from start to finish.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

What is our points scored to given up in the 3rd quarter this yr?? It's gotta be like negative 50

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1125981]What is our points scored to given up in the 3rd quarter this yr?? It's gotta be like negative 50[/quote]

I believe I read 46-3

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;1125982]I believe I read 46-3[/QUOTE]
Wow

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1125981]What is our points scored to given up in the 3rd quarter this yr?? It's gotta be like negative 50[/quote]

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/20724/bashaud-breeland-up-kirk-cousins-down-in-redskins-loss]Bashaud Breeland up, Kirk Cousins down in Redskins' loss to Jets - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

Skins been out scored 46-3 in the 3rd. Fuck Gruden

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1125984][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/20724/bashaud-breeland-up-kirk-cousins-down-in-redskins-loss]Bashaud Breeland up, Kirk Cousins down in Redskins' loss to Jets - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

Skins been out scored 46-3 in the 3rd. Fuck Gruden[/QUOTE]
But we are "improving every week" lol that dude is a joke

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Been outscored 103-51 in the second half. Thats an average of 8.5 points after halftime. If you take away the garbage time - teams playing prevent bologna - its really quite disparaging.
Leading at halftime in 5 of the 6 games.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

That's on gruden and the non adjustments

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

frick it, start Captain Kirk and get a better draft pick. Our QB of the future is not on the team..... cant play RG3 to brittle, mcoy is weak armed. Jay made his bed so make him sleep in it. boot him out at the end of the year

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

I've been a big supporter of Jay, but even I realize we are being out coached in the 2nd half of games.

I fully expected JG to have growing pains last year...afterall, it's a big step from coordinator to be the man in charge of everything...every practice, every break, every big call, etc.

No doubt his head was swimming last year.

But, he had a full off season to REFLECT & REACT....the results thus far are not showing much improvement.

I would have thought with Callahan on board that he'd be a strong influence, but truthfully, none of us are seeing it.

c'mon Jay, we're running out of games...hold yourself as accountable as you do everyone else & start stepping it up.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=calia;1125968]Our third quarters are really inexplicably bad. Never seen anything like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

I think that is what I miss the most from the glory days. Gibbs always seemed to come up with the best halftime adjustments...

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Agreed. And he always saved something for the second half that was a surprise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1125960]I think that is a fair enough argument but I think last year was a chance for Scot and Jay to evaluate both personnel and staff. But if McCoy gives them the best to succeed why isn't he starting? Do you think Jay has an agenda against him? Can't coach both?[/quote]

Maybe Gruden is not going off of last year.....maybe he's thinking in terms of how each quarterback has performed during mini camp, OTAs, training camp, and preseason... he's sticking with Cousins not because he thinks he gives the Redskins the better chance to win but he thinks Kirk Cousins can develop into a great quarterback and he thinks by allowing him to play and make these perpetual mistakes is apart of the process of Cousins developing....on the other hand he has a journeyman quarterback in Colt McCoy who is more battle hardened.... the ongoing loyalty to Cousins is frustrating as well as baffling.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Bangee7;1125993]I've been a big supporter of Jay, but even I realize we are being out coached in the 2nd half of games.

I fully expected JG to have growing pains last year...afterall, it's a big step from coordinator to be the man in charge of everything...every practice, every break, every big call, etc.

No doubt his head was swimming last year.

But, he had a full off season to REFLECT & REACT....the results thus far are not showing much improvement.

I would have thought with Callahan on board that he'd be a strong influence, but truthfully, none of us are seeing it.

c'mon Jay, we're running out of games...hold yourself as accountable as you do everyone else & start stepping it up.[/quote]

The jury is still out for me on Gruden but I think its difficult to judge anything with all the injuries this team has. I know all teams have injuries but this team has no depth and now that the injuries are piling up the lack of depth really shows.

Cousins definitely needs to improve his accuracy but without a run game he's playing with 1 are tied behind his back. The O line just cant seem to open any holes for the RBs but again that's an injury thing.

I think it would be a huge mistake to panic now and start chasing the next best thing when the sample size on this thing is still so small. The first half showed some real signs of progress that teams from a few years ago never would have done. This team has been being broken for a long long time and its not going to be fixed in 1 or 2 seasons.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins1961;1125992]frick it, start Captain Kirk and get a better draft pick. Our QB of the future is not on the team..... cant play RG3 to brittle, mcoy is weak armed. Jay made his bed so make him sleep in it. boot him out at the end of the year[/QUOTE]
I agree 100 percent. We knew KC was the best of 3 bad options. And starting a qb roundhouse is pointless. Ride the qb out and develop the rest of the team's cohesion around one guy. This is about building a competitive base this year.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1125971]A friend IMed me this evening and asked me my thoughts on the rumor of Jay getting fired during the buy week and Bill C taking over.

Has anybody seen this rumor?[/quote]

Really not hard to believe at all. Bill Callahan has HC experience - the players seem to play to him, wouldn't be a bad move IMO....

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1126009]Really not hard to believe at all. Bill Callahan has HC experience - the players seem to play to him, wouldn't be a bad move IMO....[/quote]

Callahan is one of those guys whose great at what he does good - get an OLine motivated and going, but not at being a HC.

From his Wiki
[quote]Despite the success of his 2002 team, the 2003 Raiders had a losing record. After his team got off to a 2–5 start, many of his players, in particular Charles Woodson, publicly criticized the coach, even suggesting that Callahan was deliberately trying to sabotage the season. According to Woodson, the Raider locker room was almost in a state of mutiny against Callahan, a claim corroborated by veteran receiver Tim Brown and others. Callahan, his supporters claim, had recognized that the team was aging and needed younger talent. To get it, he would have to cut existing salaries, an assertion that did not sit well with many of the team's veterans. It did not help that quarterback Rich Gannon was sidelined with injuries for much of the season. On Nov 30, after a 22–8 loss to the Denver Broncos, Callahan said the Raiders must have been "the dumbest team in America in terms of playing the game." After a lackluster 4–12 season, Callahan was fired... [/quote]

Also, he basically builds OL's and leaves. He was asst HC /OL in NYJ from 2008 to 2011, OC/OL in Dallas from 2011-2014, and now OL coach for half a year, with an unfinished line.

A lot of people hate on DS, but all I see in this thread, and this board anymore is the same lack of patience he gets criticized for all the time.

Gruden had a very bad day yesterday, from the 3rd qtr debacle to his lack of answer for it in the press conference. But he has been a HC coach for 18 months. He came in and was tied to 3 mediocre qb's and was hamstrung by the owner even on that.

IF we are going to progress as an organization, SM needs to let this guy lead the team for a season, if he loses the players, than that's different. But the process of being a head coach in this league is something that takes some time.

I believe we've seen a better managed and run team. We had no penalties for 3 quarters. Time management at the halfs has gotten a bit better. I do think right now he lacks the "killer instinct" and I think that permeates through the team. And he's got to figure out why his halftime system leads to crappy third quarters/2nd halves.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Gruden doubled down on KC this year. If KC fails, so does Gruden. I thought one of the more telling comments during Gruden's post game presser was "We have a lot invested in Kirk." To my recollection, never made a statement like that about RGIII.

In addition, the excuses he was coming up for KC just caused me to face palm - it was the wind, everyone makes bad decisions, the 2nd int was just a long punt, the "vanilla" defense Jets played was a change-up b/c KC thought they were going they to be bringing pressure.

He seems to hold everyone [I]but[/I] KC accountable.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

From Keim:

[quote]Coach Jay Gruden. The Redskins now have been outscored 46-3 in the third quarter of games this season. Also, it’s fine that he wants to stick by Cousins. Sometimes his defense of Cousins goes overboard; the conditions weren’t the best and the run game didn’t work, but he could have played better. The Redskins had plenty of excuses not to win Sunday, so I'm not blaming him for the loss at all. And the third-quarter woes aren't all on him. But with Cousins, all he really needed to say was that he has to play better and they can't afford the mistakes. Cousins can handle the truth.[/quote]

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1126013]Gruden doubled down on KC this year. If KC fails, so does Gruden. I thought one of the more telling comments during Gruden's post game presser was "We have a lot invested in Kirk." To my recollection, never made a statement like that about RGIII.

In addition, the excuses he was coming up for KC just caused me to face palm - it was the wind, everyone makes bad decisions, the 2nd int was just a long punt, the "vanilla" defense Jets played was a change-up b/c KC thought they were going they to be bringing pressure.

He seems to hold everyone [I]but[/I] KC accountable.[/quote]

He also said that none of the QB's at this stage of their careers can carry the team. Basically he was saying the other options are worse that what's currently playing.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Gruden cannot say none of the QB's on this staff are his guy....if that's true
I look at Kirk like his......John Beck

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Cousins has 10 multiple interception games. 10 folks...10. Think about that.

Cousin apologists, officially get the f*ck out.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Gruden inherited them, but he always talks to much.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1126020]Cousins has 10 multiple interception games. 10 folks...10. Think about that.

Cousin apologists, officially get the f*ck out.[/quote]

Where do the people go that think "Cousins isnt great but hes the best option we have on this roster" go?

Or is there no middle ground for reasonable minded people who understand that injuries to our top players + 31 rushing yards = loss.

Our strength is running the ball and stopping the run. We did neither last week or this week ... but lets focus solely on our average Qb having a below average game ...... and make sure to blast any skins fan who doesnt want to burn Cousins at the stake.

Cousins is the 4th or 5th reason why we lost yesterday.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Just as I believe Scot McCloughan wants to bring his own handpicked QB to this team (he's already doing that with the RB position), I also believe he wants to do the same with the coach.

To me, what McC is building up in terms of personnel, doesn't quite match to what I think Gruden wants to do, at least offensively. I'd be curious to know how much influence McC has on whether Gruden gets fired or not.

At the end of the day, I don't think it'd be prudent to fire Gruden mid-season. Although he is not helping himself by continuing to be a Cousins apologist. And honestly, I think that is going to be his undoing.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1126023]Where do the people go that think "Cousins isnt great but hes the best option we have on this roster" go?



Or is there no middle ground for reasonable minded people who understand that injuries to our top players + 31 rushing yards = loss.



Our strength is running the ball and stopping the run. We did neither last week or this week ... but lets focus solely on our average Qb having a below average game ...... and make sure to blast any skins fan who doesnt want to burn Cousins at the stake.



Cousins is the 4th or 5th reason why we lost yesterday.[/QUOTE]


Agreed.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1126023]Where do the people go that think "Cousins isnt great but hes the best option we have on this roster" go?

Or is there no middle ground for reasonable minded people who understand that injuries to our top players + 31 rushing yards = loss.

Our strength is running the ball and stopping the run. We did neither last week or this week ... but lets focus solely on our average Qb having a below average game ...... and make sure to blast any skins fan who doesnt want to burn Cousins at the stake.

Cousins is the 4th or 5th reason why we lost yesterday.[/quote]

all good points...I just want to be clear, Cousins isnt the future. Good backup, not a starter in this league.

I dont know about 4 or 5, i think its more 2 or 3. running the ball to me is the obvious 1st.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1126033]all good points...I just want to be clear, Cousins isnt the future. Good backup, not a starter in this league.

I dont know about 4 or 5, i think its more 2 or 3. running the ball to me is the obvious 1st.[/quote]

IMO its way to early to say KC cant be the QB of the future. He hasn't even started 16 games yet. He definitely needs to improve from where he is now but the sample size of starts is too low to declare him "not a starter".

Firing Gruden mid-season would prove this organization is as stupid as its ever been.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1126027]... At the end of the day, I don't think it'd be prudent to fire Gruden mid-season. [B]Although he is not helping himself by continuing to be a Cousins apologist. And honestly, I think that is going to be his undoing[/B].[/quote]

I think that is true. The film will show what the film will show. What I saw with my own eyes is that KC is just inaccurate. He has been that way all year. Yesterday, even more so. I understand from Keim and other beat reporters and twitter folks that KC has strong support in the locker room and on the staff, but, at some point this "Well, it was the wind" defense is going to go over like a lead balloon with Scot McC.

[quote=Chico23231;1126033]all good points...I just want to be clear, Cousins isnt the future. Good backup, not a starter in this league.

I dont know about 4 or 5, i think its more 2 or 3. running the ball to me is the obvious 1st.[/quote]

Agreed. Sure, there were injuries but guys were open and were thrown bad balls. I grant you the lack of a running game was No. 1, but, in my mind, KC was a not-to-distant second.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1126036]I think that is true. The film will show what the film will show. What I saw with my own eyes is that KC is just inaccurate. He has been that way all year. Yesterday, even more so. I understand from Keim and other beat reporters and twitter folks that KC has strong support in the locker room and on the staff, but, at some point this "Well, it was the wind" defense is going to go over like a lead balloon with Scot McC.



Agreed. Sure, there were injuries but guys were open and were thrown bad balls. I grant you the lack of a running game was No. 1, but, in my mind, KC was a not-to-distant second.[/quote]

Those ints throw were inexcusable just crap throws too based on poor decisions.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;1126034]IMO its way to early to say KC cant be the QB of the future. He hasn't even started 16 games yet. He definitely needs to improve from where he is now but the sample size of starts is too low to declare him "not a starter".

Firing Gruden mid-season would prove this organization is as stupid as its ever been.[/quote]

What about firing our no name O-cordinator who sux and moving Callahan in as OC/oline coach?

Lets look at the facts this season:

The defense has been much better. I think the secondary has been much better, even with the injuries. Perry Fewell is doing a damn good job. I think Joe Barry has been decent...i think he gets a little lax sometimes, and needs to be more aggressive in some situations.

The special teams, while coverage units have been suspect; Ross, crowder and both kickers have been pretty good. Still too many penalties on special teams, but that has slowly gotten better as the season has gone on.


The offense. Obviously Callahan has been great, much improved on the line. But Jay Gruden the "offensive wiz" and our no name shit O cordinator not really coming through. I think play calling is meh, stratgy is meh, but the yards gained aint matching what our scoring should be. Our adjustments after half time are terrible...we are unable to add or adjust to the offense.


If we shit the bed in Tampa Bay, we will see some change. I think Gruden might have to have Callahan move into the OC role at a minimum.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

I hope Snyder is past firing coaches mid season. I think he is. If he didn't fire Zorn mid season after that fake FG incident on national TV, then he's not firing Gruden. It's not happening folks.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1126039]What about firing our no name O-cordinator who sux and moving Callahan in as OC/oline coach?

Lets look at the facts this season:

The defense has been much better. I think the secondary has been much better, even with the injuries. Perry Fewell is doing a damn good job. I think Joe Barry has been decent...i think he gets a little lax sometimes, and needs to be more aggressive in some situations.

The special teams, while coverage units have been suspect; Ross, crowder and both kickers have been pretty good. Still too many penalties on special teams, but that has slowly gotten better as the season has gone on.


The offense. Obviously Callahan has been great, much improved on the line. But Jay Gruden the "offensive wiz" and our no name shit O cordinator not really coming through. I think play calling is meh, stratgy is meh, but the yards gained aint matching what our scoring should be. Our adjustments after half time are terrible...we are unable to add or adjust to the offense.


If we shit the bed in Tampa Bay, we will see some change. I think Gruden might have to have Callahan move into the OC role at a minimum.[/quote]

Chico you just want heads to roll. lol. What the hell is Callahan going to do? He got play calling stripped in Dallas for throwing too much. And don't get me started about Callahan in Oakland. The entire team hated the guy with a passion. He isn't going to fix our issues on offense. Our issues can't be fixed until we get some bodies back, as well as more tinkering during the off season.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;1126034][B]IMO its way to early to say KC cant be the QB of the future. He hasn't even started 16 games yet.[/B] He definitely needs to improve from where he is now but the sample size of starts is too low to declare him "not a starter".[/quote]

KC has thrown 6 TD's to 8 INT's this season. Over the course of his four years, he has thrown 24 TD's and 27 INT's. He is 27 years old (as of August).
He is not a "young" QB. Regardless of his number of starts, these are not the numbers and age of a QB "of the future." People here have said "Well, P. Manning, B. Farve, etc. all started out throwing lots of picks." True, when they were in their first couple years in the league and under 25. At 27, Manning was a six year starter on his way to a 29 TD, 10 INT season and Farve a five year starter on his way to a 38 TD, 10 INT season. How about some more pedestrian but 27 year olds?

Mark Brunnell: Three year starter, 18 TD's, 7 INT's;
Jason Campbell: Two year starter, 13 TD's, 6 INT's;
Jay Cutler: Five year starter, 23 TD's, 16 INT's.

Kirk is not the answer this year, next year nor any point in the future. At this point, neither he nor RGIII is the answer and neither help us win now (different flaws equaling the same bad result). I give him a couple games, but then, if still throwing multiple picks, put in Colt as a care taker and move forward from there.

[quote=irish;1126034]Firing Gruden mid-season would prove this organization is as stupid as its ever been.[/quote]

Gruden gets the year ... but be prepared for a Shanny type collapse if we don't get some more wins. Soon.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;1126034]IMO its way to early to say KC cant be the QB of the future. He hasn't even started 16 games yet. [B]He definitely needs to improve from where he is now but the sample size of starts is too low to declare him "not a starter".[/B]

Firing Gruden mid-season would prove this organization is as stupid as its ever been.[/quote]

It may be a low sample size, but some glaring problems seem to not be getting better. The one that sticks out to me is the glaring problem with throwing out routes. Had one returned for a TD when we were almost in FG range in OT at Atlanta. Another one picked off deep in Redskin
territory against the Jets. I can't recall how many of his other
6 interceptions were on out routes but I can remember a few close calls where picks were dropped.

A well thrown out route is either caught by the receiver inbounds or incomplete. A bad throw is dangerous and can be an easy pick six. From
my observation more out routes are returned for TDs than any other.
It appears obvious that until whatever is causing the problem with out routes is cleared up, don't throw them unless the receiver is wide open.

Drives me nuts when I see a glaring problem that doesn't get fixed.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

What's going to happen is an even more vanilla style of play because kirk just can't beat anyone passing and his deep ball accuracy is non existent apparently. Basically be ready for more screens and dump passes. This offense is bad due to one position.... QB. We have talent everywhere else and good talent when healthy.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1126045]What's going to happen is an even more vanilla style of play because kirk just can't beat anyone passing and his deep ball accuracy is non existent apparently. Basically be ready for more screens and dump passes. This offense is bad due to one position.... QB. We have talent everywhere else and good talent when healthy.[/quote]

I think it will be tough for KC or any Skins QB to beat anyone passing when the opponent knows the running game is non-existant due to multiple injuries on the O line.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1126042]...

Gruden gets the year ... but be prepared for a Shanny type collapse if we don't get some more wins. Soon.[/quote]

I think Shanahan lost the team through a lot of non-football things. One thing that I think I have seen is Gruden has kept this team's mentality right through all the QB drama. So I doubt we have a Shanny or Zorn collapse. I just expect us to lose because we don't have a strong enough roster. Forget the 2nd half collapses - clearly coaching problem- and lets look at the plan in the first halves. Gruden has had the team ready to play and lead at half time for 5 of the 6 games. The team plays for him, I think. He just needs to get better.

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

Late to the party but its the same party every week.

Offense is struggling. In a game where the Jets were begging them to do something and our defense have them every opportunity the offense did nothing.

Overall offense is playing at a sub optimal level even given the injuries.
Run game struggles in gameplan concepts, commitment, playcalling and execution.
Passing game is inconsistent. From Kirks decision making and inaccuracy to coaching miscues e.g. not targeting Garcon in the second half, not taking deep shots, not using DY etc.

Defense...where is the pass rush?
Where is run stopping?

Re: Redskins v. Jets Gameday Thread
 

[quote=irish;1126049]I think it will be tough for KC or any Skins QB to beat anyone passing when the opponent knows the running game is non-existant due to multiple injuries on the O line.[/quote]

Any half way decent Qb could have won yesterday. yes, garcon and a bunch of unproven receivers are probably the worst starting WR corp in the nfl yesterday. Yes, we are down to our 4th string TE as a starter, worst in the NFl yesterday. Yes, we were missing 3/5 of our projected starting O line, probably the worst starting O line in the NFL yesterday. yes, we only ran for 31 yards ...... worst in the NFL yesterday.

but those are just excuses.

going into yesterday, cousins probably had the least talented and experienced starting 10 guys on offense of any NFL team yesterday .... but he should have won it for us.

damn you Kirk and your reasonable "excuses" for why you single handedly didnt win us the game! damn you!