Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128105]Well accuracy and the int's obviously go hand in hand. He certainly has looked better the last couple starts in that department. Could signal a maturation or maybe he just got lucky? Time will tell. I will say with certainty that unlike 8 weeks ago a QB is not exactly an area of need anymore. Thank God.[/quote]
Sometimes maybe accuracy or lack thereof can be the cause of interceptions. For me interceptions are more about decision making. Missed throws/incompletion are the result of inaccuracy.

Time will tell, Kirk has to show a lot more for me to say QB isn't an area of need. Has Kirk shown himself to be quality NFL starter...? My answer would be like Dexter's "Not consistently." And thats the name of the game.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1128107]Sometimes maybe accuracy or lack thereof can be the cause of interceptions. For me interceptions are more about decision making. Missed throws/incompletion are the result of inaccuracy.



Time will tell, Kirk has to show a lot more for me to say QB isn't an area of need. Has Kirk shown himself to be quality NFL starter...? My answer would be like Dexter's "Not consistently." And thats the name of the game.[/QUOTE]


Fair enough. This week should be another good test. We have a code red game against a defensive backfield that i just watch two weeks ago get absolutely torched by the Gints.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128106]You said "not a good game". I disagree, and to me that would be a bad game. Not good = bad. Lol. If the drops dont occur it is a really good game.
.[/quote]

I think there is good, bad, and plenty in between. I don't think it is an either or. I think definitely without the drops statistically his game would have looked a lot better, but other than those first 2 drops which anyone can plainly see would have gone for lots of yardage, I am not sure how much the other drops made a difference in the overall game because a lot of them looked like the typical short yardage-immediately tackled kind of routes/throws.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Brody81;1128104]I just used your quote to make my comment. I know you don't think he has a weak arm.. This whole argument is getting retarded. Some guys will never get onboard with Kirk because he wasn't a high draft pick. They can't get excited about a 4th round pick. [B]The good thing is Scott will be making this decision, and I trust it will be the right one. I would love to know what he thinks of Kirk. I would guess he is very pleased with his progression so far.[/B][/quote]

Great point. I think lost in this endless diarrhea of impatient frustrated Redskins fans that expect greatness immediately.....is......we finally have stability in the FO (Scott). We finally have a GM that is a great talent evaluater and understands something foreign to Dan Snyder, it takes time to build a good talented roster.
Scott has not been here an entire season yet, but yet we have impatience.
Got it!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1128111]Great point. I think lost in this endless diarrhea of impatient frustrated Redskins fans that expect greatness immediately.....is......we finally have stability in the FO (Scott). We finally have a GM that is a great talent evaluater and understands something foreign to Dan Snyder, it takes time to build a good talented roster.
Scott has not been here an entire season yet, but yet we have impatience.
Got it![/quote]

Exactly. Having a GM that can be trusted is the key. Let's not forget either that Gruden and all the QB's on the roster were here before the GM was hired so there is no guarantee the GM wants any of them here beyond this season. He also knows that getting rid of any of them in 2015 would have been useless as there wasn't going to be some miraculous turn around after his first offseason as GM. Right now he is doing what a good GM does which is get the groceries, but is allowing the coach to cook the meal.

Gruden's job is likely going to be tied to the success/failure of Kirk Cousins and how successful management feels they will be going forward. A lot of GM's when they come in, their first order of business is to their "their" coach and QB. Our organization already had both in place, but I wouldn't for a second suggest that automatically means Scott is content with either or them right now.

Time will tell.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I'd bring back Kirk on a reasonable contract but definitely would be looking QB in the draft too.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1128119]I'd bring back Kirk on a reasonable contract but definitely would be looking QB in the draft too.[/quote]

I have no issues with drafting a QB, but at what round? History shows, QB's drafted in later rounds never make it. (Not including Brady) If Kirk is the starter next year, I do not want to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB, We have too many holes to fill. WR, Safety, etc...

Spending a high draft pick on a QB will cause a QB controversy and more dysfunction. I do not want to listen to another year of dumba$$ commentary, Rodney Harrison.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Id take Kirk Cousins over these guys.
Jeff Rutledge
Cary Conklin
Rich Gannon
John Friesz
Heath Shuler
Gus Frerotte
Jeff Hostetler
Trent Green
Brad Johnson* Possible Push
Jeff George
Tony Banks
Shane Matthews
Danny Wuerffuel
Patrick Ramsey
Rob Johnson
Tim Hasselbeck (aka Mr Elizabeth Hasselbeck)
Mark Brunell(not in his prime)
Jason Campbell
Todd Collins
Donovan McNabb
John Beck
Rex Grossman
RGIII
Colt McCoy

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/158025/mccloughan-seahawks-liked-kirk-cousins-before-2012-draft[/url]

In case some of you Kirk haters are interested in what Scott thinks of Kirk. Scott was going to draft him in Seattle if they didn't get Russell..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=CrustyRedskin;1128121]Id take Kirk Cousins over these guys.

Jeff Rutledge

Cary Conklin

Rich Gannon

John Friesz

Heath Shuler

Gus Frerotte

Jeff Hostetler

Trent Green

Brad Johnson* Possible Push

Jeff George

Tony Banks

Shane Matthews

Danny Wuerffuel

Patrick Ramsey

Rob Johnson

Tim Hasselbeck (aka Mr Elizabeth Hasselbeck)

Mark Brunell(not in his prime)

Jason Campbell

Todd Collins

Donovan McNabb

John Beck

Rex Grossman

RGIII

Colt McCoy[/QUOTE]


But it's so easy to get a starting QB.. I'm sure we will draft a Brady or Rogers in the upcoming draft.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

To my....chagrin, he seems to be showing signs of positive evolution.
We shall see

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Brody81;1128104]I just used your quote to make my comment. I know you don't think he has a weak arm.. This whole argument is getting retarded. Some guys will never get onboard with Kirk because he wasn't a high draft pick. They can't get excited about a 4th round pick. The good thing is Scott will be making this decision, and I trust it will be the right one. I would love to know what he thinks of Kirk. I would guess he is very pleased with his progression so far.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with him being a 4th round pick. No one cares about where he was drafted just like no one talks down Tom Brady because he was a 6th round pick. I guarantee you that no one would complain about having multiple SBs being led by a 6th rounder. It has to do with his games. Some great, some good, some terrible. Its that simple. You see his terrible games and call them great QB performances and that it was the rest of the team that let him down because it fits your narrative. KC is what he is... Average. Can he get better? Sure. Does that mean he will get better? No one knows.

You are just looking for excuses that KC is the greatest ever to fit your narrative. Stop claiming what we think, especially when every time that you do, its an idiotic statement. We hate KC because he is a 4th rounder? Really... You actually said that?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1128125]It has nothing to do with him being a 4th round pick. No one cares about where he was drafted just like no one talks down Tom Brady because he was a 6th round pick. I guarantee you that no one would complain about having multiple SBs being led by a 6th rounder. It has to do with his games. Some great, some good, some terrible. Its that simple. You see his terrible games and call them great QB performances and that it was the rest of the team that let him down because it fits your narrative. KC is what he is... Average. Can he get better? Sure. Does that mean he will get better? No one knows.





You are just looking for excuses that KC is the greatest ever to fit your narrative. Stop claiming what we think, especially when every time that you do, its an idiotic statement. We hate KC because he is a 4th rounder? Really... You actually said that?[/QUOTE



Yes I did say it and it the truth with some fans. If Kirk was a 1st round draft pick with the amount of starts he has this forum would not be even discussing the need to draft another QB. It would be he is learning the position and I expect him to be inconsistent. The fact our GM was high on Kirk coming out of college should should tell you he has talent and could turn into something special if given the chance. If you have a better option ie., free agency, draft, please enlighten us..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Here's a Q, would you trade for jay cutler if he's available? I think he could be a good fit for Gruden if Cousins doesn't pan out. Anyone else think it's a decent fit?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

IN MY OPINION ONLY..IF Brady and Cousins would have switched teams yesterday The PATS with COUSINS would have won by just as much ..even Brady could not have overcome that mess…and I am slowly becoming less of a Gruden fan..the team did not look focused at all ..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1128129]Here's a Q, would you trade for jay cutler if he's available? I think he could be a good fit for Gruden if Cousins doesn't pan out. Anyone else think it's a decent fit?[/quote]

HELL NO!! and don't want stafford either..I will tell you this if the Skins lose COUSINS and he goes to the right team..he just may end up as a top notch QB ..to the Cousin bashers ..be careful what you wish for..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1128129]Here's a Q, would you trade for jay cutler if he's available? I think he could be a good fit for Gruden if Cousins doesn't pan out. Anyone else think it's a decent fit?[/quote]
Only if I could get a.....solid option on Albert Haynesworth and perhaps Ryan Leaf when he clears....stir

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1128131]IN MY OPINION ONLY..IF Brady and Cousins would have switched teams yesterday The PATS with COUSINS would have won by just as much ..even Brady could not have overcome that mess…and I am slowly becoming less of a Gruden fan..the team did not look focused at all ..[/quote]

I'm not a KC basher but I'm also not a KC believer, I just dont see the IT factor in him. I think Cutler is better overall. I don't see y that's such a crazy thing to think

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Good Cutler is way better than we have ever seen out of good Cousins, but Cutler is also a head case probably at the end of his prime production years and his mental instability and tantrums are not good for a team in rebuild mode. If Cutler was 28 instead of 32, and was just hitting 30 when this franchise was able to put a respectable product on the field? Then you bet your ass I'd rather have Cutler than Cousins.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Poll has no appropriate choice for how I view KC, so I picked "superstar in the making" because he's not "just a guy" IMO.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1128132]HELL NO!! and don't want stafford either..I will tell you this if the Skins lose COUSINS and he goes to the right team..he just may end up as a top notch QB ..to the Cousin bashers ..be careful what you wish for..[/quote]

There are also factors that are out of our hands.

Look at Rich Gannon pre-Raiders. He was a medicore journeyman. Then he goes to a superbowl caliber team and looks like an all pro.

If Cousins left the franchise and suddenly looked like an elite QB then yeah, our bad, and it would speak to further dysfunction at the top of the organization not being able to sniff out talent.

Who is old enough to remember Trent Green? He started to turn a corner in his final season here and we let him go. I was still pretty young at the time, maybe he wanted out....he was the quiet guy left over from the post Shuler/Frerotte era. If we had kept Trent Green and he had been our franchise QB for the next decade who knows what would have been. That was probably our the last time we had a legitimate elite QB on the roster that got away. He went on to have a hell of a career with the Chiefs until the concussions took their toll.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but usually elite QB's come into this league and do something impressive right off the bat. The national media takes notice for a reason. T he way our local media covers the team they so desperately want Cousins to turn into a great QB because of how sour things turned out with Robert post 2012. They basically look at Kirk as our only hope other than going back to the drawing board. They will take average to above average games by Kirk and grade him out like he was out there slinging the ball around all over a defense.

We here, we're just fans most of us including myself are just trying to guess based on what we see, but I also see younger QB's with less experience than Cousins doing things I don't see Cousins doing as a 27 year old 4th year QB (yes I know "4th year" is subjective).

Re: Trent Green from Wiki

[quote]He would not see NFL action until 1998, when he threw for 3,441 yards, 23 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions.

Green's breakout season came just in time, as he became an unrestricted free agent after the 1998 season. He rejected a 4-year, $12 million offer from the Redskins, and on February 15, 1999, he agreed to a 4-year $17.5 million contract with the St. Louis Rams which included a $4.5 million signing bonus.[[/quote]

T

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I remember watching a mnf game against SF and steve young said trent green was going to be a good qb

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I'm going Pineapple Jesus, because I gotta get some use out of this avatar somehow.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I am old enough to remember Sonny/Billy!! I will say this..TRUST ME ..Cousins is going to be very good ..I just hope its with the redskins. we won super bowls with just above average QB play!! because we had the best oline,Pro bowl/HOF WR'S, top RB'S and terrific Def..great special teams..WORLD CLASS COACHING and OWNER!! COUSINS HAS ALMOST NONE OF THE ABOVE..I have seen major improvement this year and by the end of year you guys will be worried he going somewhere else to play!! just wait and see...

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Formal declaration of shenanigans on the poll.

There is a huge area between just a guy and superstar in the rising.

I would suggest the label "above average NFL QB"

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1128137]Poll has no appropriate choice for how I view KC, so I picked "superstar in the making" because he's not "just a guy" IMO.[/quote]

Yes. Thank you.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Just a guy until he proves otherwise....to some an obvious pineapple Jesus part deux

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Can we add one more choice? something between average and superstar.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

My worry is that in the modern day NFL it is harder to not only build, but maintain a "super" team. This isn't the 80's or even early 90's where you can just hoard talent continually. You draft for 3-4 seasons, need to hit on most picks and then you have that 2-3 year window before the bills come in and you better have replenished the roster with new and equally as good draft picks. That is the only way to do it without an elite QB.

The Patriots have been the most consistent team in the last decade and more, because of their QB. With that said finding a Tom Brady is probably more unlikely than building a contender the other way, but most teams that win consistently it is because the QB is at that elite level and suddenly other pieces on the team become extremely inter-changeable.

I'd rather not be in the situation where you need the rest of the team to be so good everywhere so the margin of error with the QB can be bigger. Look at the Seahawks right now, how quickly they fell from grace. Their defense just got a few steps slower/older and suddenly Russell Wilson's margin for error is tiny, unlike his first few years in the league when he was able to make a fair number of mistakes in games and the team would still win. What is he going to be long term? Who knows. Colin Kapernick? Do people remember that scrub took a team to the Superbowl? Then the roster around him became average and he is probably done forever as a starter.

There are different routes to making a contender, but I still think the most proven way starts with an elite QB.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;1128121]Id take Kirk Cousins over these guys.
Jeff Rutledge
Cary Conklin
Rich Gannon
John Friesz
Heath Shuler
Gus Frerotte
Jeff Hostetler
Trent Green
Brad Johnson* Possible Push
Jeff George
Tony Banks
Shane Matthews
Danny Wuerffuel
Patrick Ramsey
Rob Johnson
Tim Hasselbeck (aka Mr Elizabeth Hasselbeck)
Mark Brunell(not in his prime)
Jason Campbell
Todd Collins
Donovan McNabb
John Beck
Rex Grossman
RGIII
Colt McCoy[/quote]

At this point, I would take Brad Johnson. He is a super bowl winning QB, 72-53 career record,and completed over 60% of his passes.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128148]There are different routes to making a contender, but I still think the most proven way starts with an elite QB.[/quote]

If we aren't one of the 3 or 4 teams that gets one in a given generation, I could settle for a winning team built the other way.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1128120]I have no issues with drafting a QB, but at what round? History shows, QB's drafted in later rounds never make it. (Not including Brady) If Kirk is the starter next year, I do not want to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB, We have too many holes to fill. WR, Safety, etc...



Spending a high draft pick on a QB will cause a QB controversy and more dysfunction. I do not want to listen to another year of dumba$$ commentary, Rodney Harrison.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. Do not waste a pick on a backup when we need mlb, edge rusher, db, s, wr, and more beef on both sides of the line. What about tight end? Good special teams guys. I know we are getting a handful of guys back from injury n IR but others will go there. We have way to many holes to go looking for something better than what we have rite now. If Cousins shits the bed the second half than we are at a real disadvantage.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128148]There are different routes to making a contender, but I still think the most proven way starts with an elite QB.[/quote]

No shit, Sherlock! Do you happen to know where we can get one prior to the start of the 2016 season?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Brody81;1128126][QUOTE=Skinzman;1128125]It has nothing to do with him being a 4th round pick. No one cares about where he was drafted just like no one talks down Tom Brady because he was a 6th round pick. I guarantee you that no one would complain about having multiple SBs being led by a 6th rounder. It has to do with his games. Some great, some good, some terrible. Its that simple. You see his terrible games and call them great QB performances and that it was the rest of the team that let him down because it fits your narrative. KC is what he is... Average. Can he get better? Sure. Does that mean he will get better? No one knows.





You are just looking for excuses that KC is the greatest ever to fit your narrative. Stop claiming what we think, especially when every time that you do, its an idiotic statement. We hate KC because he is a 4th rounder? Really... You actually said that?[/QUOTE



Yes I did say it and it the truth with some fans. If Kirk was a 1st round draft pick with the amount of starts he has this forum would not be even discussing the need to draft another QB. It would be he is learning the position and I expect him to be inconsistent. The fact our GM was high on Kirk coming out of college should should tell you he has talent and could turn into something special if given the chance. If you have a better option ie., free agency, draft, please enlighten us..[/quote]

I have never said we had a better option. I am just laughing at the stupidity of that statement. That we only root for 1st round picks. That is such a ridiculous statement. Also how wrong you are since people turned on RG3 by year 2. Our current GM was high on RG3 also, whats your point? Would you be using the excuse that McC liked RG3 coming out of college if he was the starter and playing bad?

Part of the problem I have with this discussion are the people that talked about how we were a SB winning team if Dan Snyder would just let the team switch from RG3 to KC. Now that we have switched to KC, those people (yes that includes you Brody) are now saying that the problem is our team has absolutely zero talent except the greatest QB ever. So which is it?

This team, talent wise, is better than at any time that RG3 was the starter (and that includes the injuries). Yet, according to you, this talent laden team just last year is now defunct of talent.

PS... No one gives a crap about what round KC was drafted in.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1128160][quote=Brody81;1128126]



I have never said we had a better option. I am just laughing at the stupidity of that statement. That we only root for 1st round picks. That is such a ridiculous statement. Also how wrong you are since people turned on RG3 by year 2. Our current GM was high on RG3 also, whats your point? Would you be using the excuse that McC liked RG3 coming out of college if he was the starter and playing bad?



Part of the problem I have with this discussion are the people that talked about how we were a SB winning team if Dan Snyder would just let the team switch from RG3 to KC. Now that we have switched to KC, those people (yes that includes you Brody) are now saying that the problem is our team has absolutely zero talent except the greatest QB ever. So which is it?



This team, talent wise, is better than at any time that RG3 was the starter (and that includes the injuries). Yet, according to you, this talent laden team just last year is now defunct of talent.



PS... No one gives a crap about what round KC was drafted in.[/QUOTE]


I dont ever remember someone saying
1) KC is the greatest qb ever
2) if we switched to KC we would win a superbowl
3) The team has zero talent besides KC

I have heard....

1)KC is getting better and that he is the best qb on our team.
2)Switching from RG-3 to KC would be an improvement
3)This team has alot of holes that need to be addressed before QB.

Did people really say such things? If so they were obviously high, drunk, or any combination of the two.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Yeah the results with Cousins as QB haven't been all that much different than with Robert. There are some things Cousins does better considering he has been running a pro-"like" system for a longer time than Robert, but when all is said and done our offense is still pretty subpar. The talent level of the team is not where it needs to be in order to contend, but is anyone really going to try and make an argument that the talent around the QB in 2015 is not way better than it was in 2012-2014?

Regardless of which side you fall on in the "who is the better option" discussion, I don't think anyone was arguing that there weren't some things that Cousins was flat out better than over Robert. The question for me has always been, do you give Robert the reps and time to try and learn the rest while he is playing out his rookie contract while being on a team that isn't likely to sniff more than 6 wins regardless of who is QB? Especially if you don't think Cousins is the long term answer at the QB spot either.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1128164][QUOTE=Skinzman;1128160]


I dont ever remember someone saying
1) KC is the greatest qb ever
2) if we switched to KC we would win a superbowl
3) The team has zero talent besides KC

I have heard....

1)KC is getting better and that he is the best qb on our team.
2)Switching from RG-3 to KC would be an improvement
3)This team has alot of holes that need to be addressed before QB.

[B]Did people really say such things? If so they were obviously high, drunk, or any combination of the two.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Reminds me of the time I called my ex-wife and told her she had a butt that wouldn't quit.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128180]The question for me has always been, do you give Robert the reps and time to try and learn the rest while he is playing out his rookie contract while being on a team that isn't likely to sniff more than 6 wins regardless of who is QB? Especially if you don't think Cousins is the long term answer at the QB spot either.[/quote]

That question has already been answered by Jay Gruden who is hitching his wagon to Kirk Cousin's star.

BTW, it took you long enough to get around to your true agenda which is to promote the idea that RGIII should be playing. You might get your wish if things go rapidly downhill for the Skins, thus allowing RGIII to outlast Gruden and Cousins.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128149]At this point, I would take Brad Johnson. He is a super bowl winning QB, 72-53 career record,and completed over 60% of his passes.[/quote]

Also Trent Green...he had some pretty good years in the NFL. He also had a real good year here in 98 on a bad team.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1128189]That question has already been answered by Jay Gruden who is hitching his wagon to Kirk Cousin's star.

BTW, it took you long enough to get around to your true agenda which is to promote the idea that RGIII should be playing. You might get your wish if things go rapidly downhill for the Skins allowing RGIII to outlast Gruden and Cousins.[/quote]

The only "agenda" I have is for the 'Skins to win games. Right now they are 3-5, most likely on their way to another losing season with a QB that a lot of this fanbase is/was convinced was going to make a huge difference for the offense.

I am not judging Kirk's play against Robert's play. I am judging Kirk's play based on what I see Kirk do. I want him to succeed. If he is who the coaches and management feel is fit for the role, I want him to evolve into "the man" but it doesn't mean he just automatically gets some kind of benefit of the doubt. He is not a 23 year old rookie. He is someone who likely is going to have to show a lot in the 2nd half of the season because a quick decision is going to have to be made on what to do with him going forward as he becomes a free agent.