Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=RobH4413;1186817]I would assume he is referring to this quote:



Taken from [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/01/05/id-be-foolish-to-say-i-dont-want-to-be-here-highlights-from-kirk-cousinss-fan-event/?utm_term=.18689750c8ff"]Link[/URL]

I still think this tag and trade talk is a pipe dream. I would absolutely love to be wrong, and love to get something for him. I do not see it happening because I simply don't think the market is there for a tag and trade (for a number of reasons).

I think the reason Cousins wants out is probably a combination of everything. The F/O has had their issues, surely, but I think there is also merit to him wanting to choose his own destiny. He wants to find his own path, and likely wants to move on.

We will find out soon enough, and thankfully will be able to focus our attention elsewhere (although I shudder to imagine the obsessive comparative threads with Cousins vs. his replacement. It will be hell).[/quote]

Classy statement by Kirk. Even after being tagged twice and still being low-balled by Allen and Snyder, Cousins stays positive.

The Skins FO made a business decision to go low on negotiating with Cousins and agent. After they rebuffed Kirk's offer of $20 mil per year (which sure looks cheap now), they have only themselves to blame for the current situation. Cousins bet on himself, and won.

What bugs me the most about who succeeds Kirk here: Say he does as well as Cousins. Will the FO learn from it's mistakes now? Will the FO actually try to keep a QB we draft and develop here, when the rookie contract is over? And give our coaches the chance to build around him, signing the QB to a LTD? Or will it be the same crap as this current situation all over again?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=RobH4413;1186817]I think the reason Cousins wants out is probably a combination of everything. The F/O has had their issues, surely, but I think there is also merit to him wanting to choose his own destiny. He wants to find his own path, and likely wants to move on. [/quote]



I think this says it all

[quote]Q: Do you feel good about Bruce Allen + Dan Snyder being your bosses?

Cousins: "It all comes down to winning. We have to win. If we win, everybody will feel good." #Redskins[/quote]


LOL. That answer was text book political sidestep.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1186802]Can you really blame him for not wanting to be here? I know most people will point out the money we have gave him so far. That's good, but what any player wants is the long-term security. Hell any person really wants long-term security. Whatever job that you do, do you want to do it year to year, or would you hope your company wants you around long-term?



If reports are accurate, Dan / Allen didn't express any willingness to keep Cousins until year 3 of him starting. Remember after the Baltimore game that Cousins won with RG3 being hurt, Dan allegedly walked right by Cousins in the locker room, said nothing to him, and went over to RG3. How would that make you feel?



I think there's next to no chance we successfully draft / develop a QB. The argument could be made that we did that with Cousins, and ultimately failed when it came time to give him NFL starting QB money. Trading up for Picks to get a QB - those picks would be better used elsewhere on our team.[/QUOTE]



I agree with everything you said... I’m just tired of the whole situation. I’m mentally preparing myself for his departure.

I also believe there is no doubt that this team will screw up and draft the wrong quarterback and the cycle will continue.


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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

If the 49ers sign Garoppolo to a record deal before Kirk inks a deal I wonder if that will affect what Kirk is paid? Jimmy is 7-0 as a starter, even though a small sample, he won 5 straight with the previously 1-10 49ers, picking up their offense in mid season.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

You can bet Kirk’s camp will watching Jimmy G’s situation closely. I don’t think he’s got the resume to demand top money but I can see him getting in the range of $20M per year.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186837]You can bet Kirk’s camp will watching Jimmy G’s situation closely. I don’t think he’s got the resume to demand top money but I can see him getting in the range of $20M per year.[/quote]

I will take the over on that $20 mil, SF has a huge amount of cap space and QB salaries have been escalating like crazy. I will venture a guess he gets in the neighborhood of $25 mil.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186837]You can bet Kirk’s camp will watching Jimmy G’s situation closely. I don’t think he’s got the resume to demand top money but I can see him getting in the range of $20M per year.[/quote]

The latest rumor is the Broncos will be cutting Talib and possibly other starters to make room for Kirk.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/29/broncos-may-release-not-trade-aqib-talib/]Broncos may release, not trade, Aqib Talib – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1186839]I will take the over on that $20 mil, SF has a huge amount of cap space and QB salaries have been escalating like crazy. I will venture a guess he gets in the neighborhood of $25 mil.[/QUOTE]


So Derek Carr/ Andrew Luck money after 7 games? I’ll be impressed if they pull that off.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186842]So Derek Carr/ Andrew Luck money after 7 games? I’ll be impressed if they pull that off.[/quote]

I think SF will learn from how we handled Kirk. They should know that the Jimmy G camp will expect a strong offer or will wait to be franchised.

Once franchised, the starting point for negotiations will be $20M per year anyway. SF would be smart to come with a strong offer like $21M or $22M per season to avoid going down the same road that Allen took us with Kirk.

Once you slap the tag on the player has all the leverage. We learned that the hard way.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1186843]I think SF will learn from how we handled Kirk. They should know that the Jimmy G camp will expect a strong offer or will wait to be franchised.



Once franchised, the starting point for negotiations will be $20M per year anyway. SF would be smart to come with a strong offer like $21M or $22M per season to avoid going down the same road that Allen took us with Kirk.



Once you slap the tag on the player has all the leverage. We learned that the hard way.[/QUOTE]


I totally agree. I don’t see him getting 25 a year but we’ll see.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186837]You can bet Kirk’s camp will watching Jimmy G’s situation closely. I don’t think he’s got the resume to demand top money but I can see him getting in the range of $20M per year.[/quote]

I get what you are saying, but at this point KC's team (and the FO) has tons of data as to where KC's contract should fall. It is ridiculous to look at any other QB, because with the double franchise tag, KC's outside of any normal scope.

I think all Skins fans are simply exhausted and done with this drama. Just let it be over.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1186839]I will take the over on that $20 mil, SF has a huge amount of cap space and QB salaries have been escalating like crazy. I will venture a guess he gets in the neighborhood of $25 mil.[/quote]


[quote=MTK;1186842]So Derek Carr/ Andrew Luck money after 7 games? I’ll be impressed if they pull that off.[/quote]


With close to the same personnel in the last two years four QBs combined for a 3-24 record for the 49ers. Jimmy G steps in and goes 5-0 with 2 of those wins against play-off teams. The 49ers moved recently to a new stadium that was starting to get pretty empty with a lot of fans wanting the owners to sell the team. I have a feeling the Yorks will open the bank vault for him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186846]I get what you are saying, but at this point KC's team (and the FO) has tons of data as to where KC's contract should fall. It is ridiculous to look at any other QB, because with the double franchise tag, KC's outside of any normal scope.

[B]I think all Skins fans are simply exhausted and done with this drama. Just let it be over.[/quote]
[/B]


Yep, at this point IDC either way.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186846]I get what you are saying, but at this point KC's team (and the FO) has tons of data as to where KC's contract should fall. It is ridiculous to look at any other QB, because with the double franchise tag, KC's outside of any normal scope.

[B][I]I think all Skins fans are simply exhausted and done with this drama. Just let it be over.[/I][/B][/quote]

Exactly! We just want it to be done and over with, whatever the outcome. I hope we keep Kirk, but if not, let's move on and see what happens.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186837]You can bet Kirk’s camp will watching Jimmy G’s situation closely. I don’t think he’s got the resume to demand top money but I can see him getting in the range of $20M per year.[/quote]

seriously? i'd take Garoppolo over Cousins any day . . . all he did was look terrific in NE . . . then get traded and take a 1 win team to 5-0 under his QB play . . . the 49ers would have been better off not playing him and going 0 - 5 over those games instead . . . the would have had a better pick and a lower cost to sign him

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

It’s easy to fall in love with a player over 5 games. Let’s see how he looks over the course of a full season when DC’s have some time to study up on him. Don’t get me wrong I like him, I think we need to pump the brakes on a guy with such a limited sample of games.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186864]It’s easy to fall in love with a player over 5 games. Let’s see how he looks over the course of a full season when DC’s have some time to study up on him. Don’t get me wrong I like him, I think we need to pump the brakes on a guy with such a limited sample of games.[/quote]

Agree. Defenses don't even have enough tape on file yet to study his weaknesses. Once they figure out his weaknesses they'll gameplan for him. Then we'll really see how good he is - can he adapt?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

kyle Shanny is a heck of an offensive coach...eager to see how they build the O. Jimmy G is gonna be solid...interested to see who Kyle adds at RB.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186864]It’s easy to fall in love with a player over 5 games. Let’s see how he looks over the course of a full season when DC’s have some time to study up on him. Don’t get me wrong I like him, I think we need to pump the brakes on a guy with such a limited sample of games.[/quote]

Once again I REVERT BACK TO DAK last yr... Even some guys here were saying "dude is going to be a star" and now look... He's avg at best

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186864]It’s easy to fall in love with a player over 5 games. Let’s see how he looks over the course of a full season when DC’s have some time to study up on him. Don’t get me wrong I like him, I think we need to pump the brakes on a guy with such a limited sample of games.[/quote]



[quote=Schneed10;1186866]Agree. Defenses don't even have enough tape on file yet to study his weaknesses. Once they figure out his weaknesses they'll gameplan for him. Then we'll really see how good he is - can he adapt?[/quote]

Have you watched him play? He seems to be one of those guys that can feel the rush, like he has eyes in the back of his head. He also seems to be able to move well in a confined space and has a quick reaction time. He seems to have a lot of those intangibles you can't teach.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1186866]Agree. Defenses don't even have enough tape on file yet to study his weaknesses. Once they figure out his weaknesses they'll gameplan for him. Then we'll really see how good he is - can he adapt?[/quote]

It takes 3-4 years of good QB play to know who is really legit or not... Kirk has proven to be that good, been 3 years now... Jimmy G? we'll see in a couple yrs

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Cousins saga needs to end so I can get to accurately mock drafting based on our roster. Now I have to do 2 each time, but they both just feel pointless and fake (even tho it's always fake lol).

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1186869]Have you watched him play? He seems to be one of those guys that can feel the rush, like he has eyes in the back of his head. He also seems to be able to move well in a confined space and has a quick reaction time. He seems to have a lot of those intangibles you can't teach.[/quote]

Defenses study tape to know what preferences a qb has in his movements. With no real tape on him, the defenders might be coming at him in more vanilla ways.

He might be great, or good, but the sample size at the end of a season you just can't know for sure.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Troy Renck ABC Denver

Reality is #Broncos need to massage salary cap. They will pursue Cousins. But have to have enough money for him and to address other needs. Elway also did not rule out change at WR. As I have said for weeks, it would not be surprise if 1 vet -between DT and Emmanuel- not back.


Would you trade Kirk for DT and a 2nd round pick? Would denver do that?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186877]Troy Renck ABC Denver

Reality is #Broncos need to massage salary cap. They will pursue Cousins. But have to have enough money for him and to address other needs. Elway also did not rule out change at WR. As I have said for weeks, it would not be surprise if 1 vet -between DT and Emmanuel- not back.


Would you trade Kirk for DT and a 2nd round pick? Would denver do that?[/quote]

Keep DT and give me your 1st or 2nd and 3rd.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1186878]Keep DT and give me your 1st or 2nd and 3rd.[/quote]

I don't think they want to get rid of that 1. If they offer Sanders or DT and a 2 I'd take that

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

We really need some education on the rules that govern trading in the NFL.

How you gonna trade Cousins when he's not under contract? Only option: slap the franchise tag on him. If you do that, you know exactly what he'll do, he'll sign it and play on it.

A trade is not going to happen. Get the idea out of your heads.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1186880]We really need some education on the rules that govern trading in the NFL.

How you gonna trade Cousins when he's not under contract? Only option: slap the franchise tag on him. If you do that, you know exactly what he'll do, he'll sign it and play on it.

A trade is not going to happen. Get the idea out of your heads.[/quote]

ehh not if he really really wants out

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1186880]We really need some education on the rules that govern trading in the NFL.

How you gonna trade Cousins when he's not under contract? Only option: slap the franchise tag on him. If you do that, you know exactly what he'll do, he'll sign it and play on it.

A trade is not going to happen. Get the idea out of your heads.[/quote]

Its the least likely of all the options but its our off season, gotta talk about something. And nothing this franchise does would ever surprise me.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1186880]We really need some education on the rules that govern trading in the NFL.

How you gonna trade Cousins when he's not under contract? Only option: slap the franchise tag on him. If you do that, you know exactly what he'll do, he'll sign it and play on it.

A trade is not going to happen. Get the idea out of your heads.[/QUOTE]

This is the throw away argument used over and over against the option of sign and trade. I do not discount this perspective, but sign and trade is clearly the best possible outcome if Kirk can't be signed here long term, so I hope that the FO at least takes a very close look at it, so we might as well do the same. In that spirit, these are the questions I have for that argument, that Cousins will most likely just play on the tag:

1. Cousins has said he prefers not to play on a one year deal. He says winning is the most important thing. He has said he wants to be where he's wanted. Even if he's kept the threat open, do you really believe that his plan is get the big pay day by playing on the tag or hitting free agency?

2. Cousins has said that he wants to test the market. He said it last year too, but the Redskins tagged him and seemingly didn't give him permission to seek other offers. If they give him permission this year after tagging him, why wouldn't he do what he's said he wants to do?

3. Cousins either really cares about his public perception, or he is just a genuine guy. Either way, if he were to ignore the Redskins permission to seek other offers, won't negotiate a long term deal here, takes a big one year pay day while hurting his team in the process, and clearly is playing somewhere he doesn't want to be, wouldn't this hurt his image both here and throughout the NFL?

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=WillH;1186887]This is the throw away argument used over and over against the option of sign and trade. I do not discount this perspective, but sign and trade is clearly the best possible outcome if Kirk can't be signed here long term, so I hope that the FO at least takes a very close look at it, so we might as well do the same. In that spirit, these are the questions I have for that argument, that Cousins will most likely just play on the tag:

1. Cousins has said he prefers not to play on a one year deal. He says winning is the most important thing. He has said he wants to be where he's wanted. Even if he's kept the threat open, do you really believe that his plan is get the big pay day by playing on the tag or hitting free agency?

2. Cousins has said that he wants to test the market. He said it last year too, but the Redskins tagged him and seemingly didn't give him permission to seek other offers. If they give him permission this year after tagging him, why wouldn't he do what he's said he wants to do?

3. Cousins either really cares about his public perception, or he is just a genuine guy. Either way, if he were to ignore the Redskins permission to seek other offers, won't negotiate a long term deal here, takes a big one year pay day while hurting his team in the process, and clearly is playing somewhere he doesn't want to be, wouldn't this hurt his image both here and throughout the NFL?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Exactly, I mean do people not understand that if we don't tag kirk, he walks for nothing in return?? It basically has to be a trade at this point or pay 34M.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

He won’t walk for nothing technically, worst case we get a compensatory pick.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186899]He won’t walk for nothing technically, worst case we get a compensatory pick.[/quote]

Right, which is one of the reasons a trade is implausible. If he walks in free agency we get a 2019 3rd rounder as a compensatory pick.

So for a trade to make sense for us, a 3rd rounder is the starting point, and then you have to layer on additional compensation for us to consider taking the risk that Kirk might sign and play under the one year 34M tag deal.

So you’d be asking a team to not only sign Kirk to the largest QB contract in history (because remember nobody is trading for him unless they are assured he’ll sign long term), but also give up a 2nd rounder at minimum.

He’s frankly just not that good. No team will do it.

He will either sign with us, play under our tag again, or walk in free agency. There will be no trade.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1186901]Right, which is one of the reasons a trade is implausible. If he walks in free agency we get a 2019 3rd rounder as a compensatory pick.

So for a trade to make sense for us, a 3rd rounder is the starting point, and then you have to layer on additional compensation for us to consider taking the risk that Kirk might sign and play under the one year 34M tag deal.

So you’d be asking a team to not only sign Kirk to the largest QB contract in history (because remember nobody is trading for him unless they are assured he’ll sign long term), but also give up a 2nd rounder at minimum.

He’s frankly just not that good. No team will do it.

He will either sign with us, play under our tag again, or walk in free agency. There will be no trade.[/QUOTE]San Fran just gave up a 2nd for Garoppolo, I don't understand why you're so sure no-one would do the same for Kirk.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=WillH;1186902]San Fran just gave up a 2nd for Garoppolo, I don't understand why you're so sure no-one would do the same for Kirk.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Garoppolo is easier to sign and his upside is probably better than Kirks.

The 49ers could still tag him for a few years or just offer 20M per year for a player with only a handful of starts.

Not only is KC looking to be the highest paid player ever, any team that trades for him has zero leverage in signing him except for maybe Kirk doesn’t want to move again.
The Redskins made Kirk into a mercenary, It’s all about the money right now.

Also, The Patriots settled for a 2nd because they knew Garoppolo wouldn’t be back and they have Brady.

Bruce is probably asking for a 1st so we can draft a qb.
No one is going to pay a 1st and the richest nfl contract ever for KC.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Cousins has said it ain't about money so we'll see come March.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

The sign and trade is possible because it's assumed that the Broncos are his preferred destination. The Redskins can keep Cousins from leaving for at least a year. They can also match any contract from Denver because of the Broncos cap situation. The NFL is a year-to-year business. The opportunity today may not be there tomorrow (see SF). So, if he wants to go there, Denver is going to have to pay for it.

I see us moving up to 5 and receiving a third this year or possibly a 2nd next year.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186899]He won’t walk for nothing technically, worst case we get a compensatory pick.[/quote]

a 3rd or 4th rd? That blows

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1186909]The sign and trade is possible because it's assumed that the Broncos are his preferred destination. The Redskins can keep Cousins from leaving for at least a year. They can also match any contract from Denver because of the Broncos cap situation. The NFL is a year-to-year business. The opportunity today may not be there tomorrow (see SF). So, if he wants to go there, Denver is going to have to pay for it.

[B]I see us moving up to 5 and receiving a third this year or possibly a 2nd next year.[/quote][/B]

I think we would all take that deal. At 5 take Allen or Mayfield and then add the talent u need around him in the other rounds.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1186903]Garoppolo is easier to sign and his upside is probably better than Kirks.

The 49ers could still tag him for a few years or just offer 20M per year for a player with only a handful of starts.

Not only is KC looking to be the highest paid player ever, any team that trades for him has zero leverage in signing him except for maybe Kirk doesn’t want to move again.
The Redskins made Kirk into a mercenary, It’s all about the money right now.

Also, The Patriots settled for a 2nd because they knew Garoppolo wouldn’t be back and they have Brady.

Bruce is probably asking for a 1st so we can draft a qb.
No one is going to pay a 1st and the richest nfl contract ever for KC.[/QUOTE]Don't you think they'd come down to a 2nd if they didn't have a better offer from a team he was willing to sign long term with though?

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