Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Yeah, I don't think Gibbs just yanked based on what he saw in Chicago, it was more like what he saw and what he hasn't seen for the past couple of months. I think Gibbs has been stewing this one for a while.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I think he gave him every chance to turn the corner. Ramsey simply didn't get it done. He worked as the starter all during the offseason. He took 90% of the snaps in training camp. All he had to do was produce and claim the job. Can anyone really say that he did that? Ramsey left the window of doubt wide open in Gibbs' mind.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I'm not old enough to remember the thrill of winning. I was eight when they won their last Super Bowl. I vaguely remember that. They've been bad pretty much my entire life.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Will somebody please tell me what Ramsey has done to win your unrelenting support?

Was it the 65 QB rating in the preseason? The 4 INTs? Or maybe it was the 2 fumbles and 1 INT in three series worth of work against Chicago?

Talk about blindly following someone.[/QUOTE]

dismissing 16 regular season games last season for four preseason games against backups and the first 19 minutes of the regular season against a fresh and motivated Bears defense is whats blind.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Will somebody please tell me what Ramsey has done to win your unrelenting support?

Was it the 65 QB rating in the preseason? The 4 INTs? Or maybe it was the 2 fumbles and 1 INT in three series worth of work against Chicago?

Talk about blindly following someone.[/QUOTE]

I never said that Ramsey had my "unrelenting" support. I just think that we have a better chance of winning with him than we do with Brunell. Ramsey may ultimately not be the answer either, but it looks like we'll never get the chance to find out. We've ALREADY found out that Brunell is not the answer, or wasn't 8 games enough of a tryout for him?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Don't name him the starter. That's it. Just make it Brunell or say that they're having an open competition and give that to Brunell. That's the biggest problem. What did Brunell do to earn a second chance? Regular season is what it's about.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, Gibbs wanted to have a competition, if you will, without the media being involved and dividing the team after practice during camp. Maybe he had some idea of what he wanted to do but didn't know how to quite approach it.

Last year, when he declared an open competition - Ramsey didn't respond well. This year Gibbs took an another approach, let's just flat out name him the starter. Well the results were pretty much similiar.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

That is why he's in the position he's in now. He named him the starter and yanked him very quickly.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Perhaps, Gibbs wanted to have a competition, if you will, without the media being involved and dividing the team after practice during camp. Maybe he had some idea of what he wanted to do but didn't know how to quite approach it.

Last year, when he declared an open competition - Ramsey didn't respond well. This year Gibbs took an another approach, let's just flat out name him the starter. Well the results were pretty much similiar.[/QUOTE]

What results? Ramsey was given, literally, less than half a game! This move by Gibbs at this point in the season is nothing but a joke.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I don't really wanna hear about offseason workouts because Ramsey didn't even have his #1 reciever most of the time. Remember? He was in a contract dispute.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]I never said that Ramsey had my "unrelenting" support. I just think that we have a better chance of winning with him than we do with Brunell. Ramsey may ultimately not be the answer either, but it looks like we'll never get the chance to find out. We've ALREADY found out that Brunell is not the answer, or wasn't 8 games enough of a tryout for him?[/QUOTE]

What makes you think Ramsey gave us a better chance? Is this just a feeling you have?

Well Gibbs has a feeling it's Brunell, somehow I trust his feelings more than ours.

Personally I'm willing to give a [u]healthy[/u] Brunell a 2nd chance. A 2nd chance in an improved offense, with a QB that looks to have a better grasp on the offense.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I don't really wanna hear about offseason workouts because Ramsey didn't even have his #1 reciever most of the time. Remember? He was in a contract dispute.[/QUOTE]

That was settled pretty quickly. He didn't miss any of training camp. Besides, he hooked up with him pretty nicely in the preseason and even on Sunday. Working with his #1 WR isn't his problem.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

If by a better grasp you mean throwing the ball short of first downs on most third downs then this offense is doomed from the start.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]What results? Ramsey was given, literally, less than half a game! This move by Gibbs at this point in the season is nothing but a joke.[/QUOTE]


No, I disagree.....last year how he left Brunell in for several miserable games was a joke (see, I'm disagreeing with the infallible Gibbs:), to leave an inadequate Ramsey in for another two or three games would have been a joke.

Yes, I said it..."inadequate"! And don't give me this, "he was only in for three drives and Gibbs benched him" stuff.

BTW, I still think Ramsey will prove to be very solid NFL QB, unfortunately it won't be here in Washington. I like his chances in Miami or Tampa or Cleveland.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]What results? Ramsey was given, literally, less than half a game! This move by Gibbs at this point in the season is nothing but a joke.[/QUOTE]


Do you really think Gibbs based his decision soley on what Ramsey did against the Bears??

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Why does everyone write off last season in their judgement of Brunell? I really need to know what it was? Because he was hurt? He got in hurt in Jacksonville, too. That's why they got rid of him! For a younger, stronger armed quarterback.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Well we know what Gibbs means when he says who his starting Qb is.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]What results? Ramsey was given, literally, less than half a game! This move by Gibbs at this point in the season is nothing but a joke.[/QUOTE]


LT, Gibbs didn't just look at the film from the Chicago game and decided to bench Ramsey....come on.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Do you really think Gibbs based his decision soley on what Ramsey did against the Bears??[/QUOTE]


I thought this thread would be full of "where should we trade Ramsey" talk. If Gibbs is consistent then Ramsey is on his way out of town, this is the 2nd time Ramsey has asked to be traded so clearly the guy wants out. I say ship him out and try to recoup the first round pick we traded for Campbell, we should hopefully be able to get a 2nd round pick.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Do you really think Gibbs based his decision soley on what Ramsey did against the Bears??[/QUOTE]

No, I don't. But then, let me turn your question around.

On what basis does Gibbs believe Brunell is the man? Based on his 8 horrible games of last year, based on his few quarters of playing time in this year's pre-season?

What, exactly, has Brunell done since coming here to earn the starting job?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What makes you think Ramsey gave us a better chance? Is this just a feeling you have?[/QUOTE]

2004

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Well Gibbs has a feeling it's Brunell, somehow I trust his feelings more than ours.[/QUOTE]

like in 2004?

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Personally I'm willing to give a [u]healthy[/u] Brunell a 2nd chance. A 2nd chance in an improved offense, with a QB that looks to have a better grasp on the offense.[/QUOTE]

no one will answer this: if Brunell was indeed visibly hurt, why would Gibbs keep playing him and losing game after game after game when he had a healthy young QB with experience sitting next to him? who started winning games once he was finally put in? *this* is why we're allowed to question Gibbs in the first couple years of his comeback. you accuse people of being emotionally tied to people, but why doesn't that apply to coaches?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

In rethinking everything that's been said, I've come to a very scary conclusion.

Gibbs obviously doesn't think Ramsey is the QB to get the job done. But the comments he made at yesterday's PR also indicates he doesn't necessarily see MB as the man either. Gibbs said something to the effect that he's still waiting for someone to take over as QB - not exactly a ringing endorsement of MB. In fact this move almost smacks of desperation - something that I find very troubling so early in the season.

Since the rookie is obviously not ready to take on the starting role - that leaves us with a whole lot of nothing at the most important position on the team.

An earlier poster said something to the effect that this whole scenario has them scared. Me, too.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Lady T sorry to correct you but it was atleast 9 or 10 games. :) I agree with your remarks though for the most part!!!!

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]If by a better grasp you mean throwing the ball short of first downs on most third downs then this offense is doomed from the start.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you're just tossing stuff out there to see if it sticks.

Brunell converted 3 out of 6 on 3rd downs throwing. He didn't convert on 3rd and 1 with a sneak, but he converted on 4th down with a sneak.

All in all he was was personally responsible for converting 4 out of 8 3rd and 4th down chances.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]I agree with Terry Bradshaw.....[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4862814"]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4862814[/url]

As posted in the NEWS WIRE section, courtesy of 'crlesh'.[/QUOTE]

That's a great point Terry outlines... Campbell can't do any worse.

Brunell throws the fade much better then Ramsey, plus mobility = week 2 starter.

:dallas:

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Coach Gibbs, his staff are continually assessing all aspects of the game.

I doubt whether they arbitrarily change QB's because someone has a 'feeling'. How would you feel if it turns out that the coaching staff have identified something in Ramsey's decision making, mechanics or learning curve that make him unable to do what they ask?

I trust the call being made. I don't believe we have all the information and I think that Coach Gibbs may even be trying to save Ramsey public humiliation. No one would question Parcells if he yanked a QB.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

it's the turn overs that's all, gibbs like's him but too many turn overs. our margin for error is still pretty small,gibbs first time around was about a team concept that stressed sound football with out penalties and turnovers.it's same now. he warned everyone, cut down on the mistakes . he didn't and was pulled.
he also takes unneccesary loses instead of throwing the ball away.after all that i really like him,but i admit he's his own worst enemy

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]In rethinking everything that's been said, I've come to a very scary conclusion.

Gibbs obviously doesn't think Ramsey is the QB to get the job done. But the comments he made at yesterday's PR also indicates he doesn't necessarily see MB as the man either. Gibbs said something to the effect that he's still waiting for someone to take over as QB - not exactly a ringing endorsement of MB. In fact this move almost smacks of desperation - something that I find very troubling so early in the season.

Since the rookie is obviously not ready to take on the starting role - that leaves us with a whole lot of nothing at the most important position on the team.

An earlier poster said something to the effect that this whole scenario has them scared. Me, too.[/QUOTE]

Are you surprised by that? What on God's green Earth would ever make anyone think we have a good NFL quarterback on our roster?? We just need a caretaker, someone who won't turn it over and will direct the offense just enough to support our defense. If we're going to win, we're going to have to do it like Dilfer and the 2000 Ravens.

We cannot have turnovers. Ramsey is a fumbler because he holds onto the ball too long. We can't have that.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

very good point illdefined about the emotional ties to people, including coaches. Money invested talks to I suppose. We will see the performance on Monday for starters, in addition, don't think that Ramsey won't see another opportunity.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

how would you rate last year's assessment?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]No, I don't. But then, let me turn your question around.

On what basis does Gibbs believe Brunell is the man? Based on his 8 horrible games of last year, based on his few quarters of playing time in this year's pre-season?

What, exactly, has Brunell done since coming here to earn the starting job?[/QUOTE]

It's maybe not so much of what Brunell has done, but what Ramsey hasn't done.

Look, Brunell wasn't 100% healthy last year. He's healthy now and played well during the preseason showing accuracy, poise and more control of the offense.

Ramsey on the other hand has flopped. If Ramsey was lighting things up there wouldn't be a question as to who the starter should be.

Ramsey has nobody to blame but himself. He had a chance to claim the job, he didn't step up.

We shouldn't be blaming Gibbs here. Blame Ramsey for not stepping up his game and leaving no doubt as to who should be starting.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]no one will answer this: if Brunell was indeed visibly hurt, why would Gibbs keep playing him and losing game after game after game when he had a healthy young QB with experience sitting next to him? who started winning games once he was finally put in? *this* is why we're allowed to question Gibbs in the first couple years of his comeback. you accuse people of being emotionally tied to people, but why doesn't that apply to coaches?[/QUOTE]

sigh. anyone? anyone?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's maybe not so much of what Brunell has done, but what Ramsey hasn't done.

Look, Brunell wasn't 100% healthy last year. He's healthy now and played well during the preseason showing accuracy, poise and more control of the offense.

Ramsey on the other hand has flopped. If Ramsey was lighting things up there wouldn't be a question as to who the starter should be.

Ramsey has nobody to blame but himself. He had a chance to claim the job, he didn't step up.

We shouldn't be blaming Gibbs here. Blame Ramsey for not stepping up his game and leaving no doubt as to who should be starting.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. You can't fumble TWICE IN 19 MINUTES OF ACTION and expect to keep your starting NFL job. Ramsey just sits in the pocket waiting for the pass rush to come get him. He can't get rid of the ball because he can't get outside the damn tackle box!! So he takes sacks, and sometimes he doesn't even feel the rush coming and he fumbles!!!

It's not the INTs that bother me. Ramsey is a good passer when he has time. But admit it, when you see a pass rush bearing down on him, you cringe every damn time because he never gets rid of the ball. That's a fumble waiting to happen.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

He couldn't trust Ramsey to do what he's told. He holds the ball too long, throws picks, panics.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]
[i]no one will answer this: if Brunell was indeed visibly hurt, why would Gibbs keep playing him and losing game after game after game when he had a healthy young QB with experience sitting next to him? who started winning games once he was finally put in? *this* is why we're allowed to question Gibbs in the first couple years of his comeback. you accuse people of being emotionally tied to people, but why doesn't that apply to coaches?[/i]
sigh. anyone? anyone?[/QUOTE]

I'll take you on. Because RAMSEY SUCKED THAT PRESEASON!!!

Brunell got hurt in week 2 against the Giants. What exactly did Ramsey do up until that point to convince anyone that he could come in and play well? Hell, he threw so many INTs in that Giants game in relief of Brunell, I'm surprised he could even make a college team.

After the preseason performance and that Giants performance, what coach in his right mind would switch to Ramsey, even if Brunell's passes were soft?

Ramsey finally learned enough of the offense by week 10 to come in and play better than an injured Brunell. So then Gibbs made the switch. I can't blame Gibbs for what he did last year. And he's right on the money this year.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I think Gibbs biggest contention here is that a healthy Brunell won't 'lose' games for the Skins.

On that note, we are gonna have our hands full in Big D.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]sigh. anyone? anyone?[/QUOTE]

Gibbs did stick by Brunell too long last year. I don't think anybody will deny that.

But the fact he was willing to stick with him for so long rather than going to a healthy Ramsey is telling, especially now that we've seen how inconsistent Ramsey remains.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]very good point illdefined about the emotional ties to people, including coaches. Money invested talks to I suppose. We will see the performance on Monday for starters, in addition, don't think that Ramsey won't see another opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Exactly

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Is there any other thread worth starting right now??

Will this one break the record, whatever that is, as the longest thread?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Are you surprised by that? What on God's green Earth would ever make anyone think we have a good NFL quarterback on our roster?? We just need a caretaker, someone who won't turn it over and will direct the offense just enough to support our defense. If we're going to win, we're going to have to do it like Dilfer and the 2000 Ravens.

We cannot have turnovers. Ramsey is a fumbler because he holds onto the ball too long. We can't have that.[/QUOTE]

We had the same "caretaker" QB last year and look where it got us. Obviously, we need more than that.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Players need time to develop and obviously Ramsey has not been given enough time in the Gibbs scheme. Let's see what transpires.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

how much time does he need?? i'm not disagreeing with you, but how much time is enough time?