Kick Off Teams Must get better!!!
 

First off I know many of you know I just don't know what they[coaches] see in Brown. On Kick offs he runs like he is going to be hit!!! As soon as anyone gets near him down to the ground he goes. Looking for a fox hole to jump into! Betts can do a better job and yes I know he has been hurt but Brown is a big hit away giving up the ball! Next the kick off team we need not to let teams get the ball at the 25-40 each time! This is killing us!!! That will need to be tacken care of most likely next season but wow it has hurt us this season! Now I know Brown is fast but it is hard to run when you fall to the ground as soon as a shadow get near you!

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I kind of agree, I think that Betts should handle the kickoff duties and put Brown out there to field punts. Also I wish that Gibbs would run a reverse or a latteral on a kickoff. He did them in his first tenure with the team. I mean pull the Kickoff coverage to oneside of the field with Betts and then latteral to Brown or Moss and watch them streak up the sideline, TOUCHDOWN!!!!

Re: Kick Off Teams Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]First off I know many of you know I just don't know what they[coaches] see in Brown. On Kick offs he runs like he is going to be hit!!! As soon as anyone gets near him down to the ground he goes. Looking for a fox hole to jump into! Betts can do a better job and yes I know he has been hurt but Brown is a big hit away giving up the ball! Next the kick off team we need not to let teams get the ball at the 25-40 each time! This is killing us!!! That will need to be tacken care of most likely next season but wow it has hurt us this season! Now I know Brown is fast but it is hard to run when you fall to the ground as soon as a shadow get near you![/QUOTE]

All I have to say is the Arizona game. Before we bash Brown we need to realize without his TD return, we were not gonna win that game, and we will not be in the playoffs right now. Yes his return style is not perfect, and it seems like he "falls" but the dude is still learning, and he is improving. Most of his returns are not that great, but he always has the big play ability with his speed, and that will be valuable at some point. I do however agree that we need to not give up big returns on kickoffs, but keep Brown in, and let him play, it might just help us in the end.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

i think the exact opposite.betts should handle the punts because he has better hands.brown is ok on kickoffs because of his speed.he might be alittle gun shy because im sure the coaches are beating into his head DO NOT FUMBLE

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I'm more concerned with our kickoffs,Hall gives the other team great fp every kickoff,he's had one tb the whole season,most of the time his kicks are caught between 10 -20 yard line and the other team starts pass the 20 yard line everytime.I wish I knew if they have tried Frost in practice letting him kickoff,because Hall is not getting the job done,and the coaches need to try something else

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan]I'm more concerned with our kickoffs,Hall gives the other team great fp every kickoff,he's had one tb the whole season,most of the time his kicks are caught between 10 -20 yard line and the other team starts pass the 20 yard line everytime.I wish I knew if they have tried Frost in practice letting him kickoff,because Hall is not getting the job done,and the coaches need to try something else[/QUOTE]
I'm wondering if this is a coaching thing, though. Even when Novak was in, he was dropping it at the 10, but then when we played the Cardinals, he was was putting it at the goal line. Seeing that makes me think its a strategy thing on Danny Smith's part. Anyone else notice this?

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I think Hall is struggling. He just isn't the same guy from two years ago. Just hope he doesn't cost us dearly in the playoffs.

Agree with a previous post - Brown should only handle kickoffs and not punts. For punts, rather than Betts, we should field Moss or Taylor Jacobs.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I think the KO is the weakest part of our game right now.


I think Hall is still feeling leg/groin muscle problems.

He looks like he's about to fall over on his follow through for every kick off.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan]I'm more concerned with our kickoffs,Hall gives the other team great fp every kickoff,he's had one tb the whole season,most of the time his kicks are caught between 10 -20 yard line and the other team starts pass the 20 yard line everytime.I wish I knew if they have tried Frost in practice letting him kickoff,because Hall is not getting the job done,and the coaches need to try something else[/QUOTE]

I'm with you on that one.

This just occured to me while watching the college bowl games this week and noticing these college kids kicking off into the endzone or within the 5 or 10 with incredible consitency.

How can college kickers do this but our kicker is putting it on the 20-25 every time?

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=mheisig]I'm with you on that one.

This just occured to me while watching the college bowl games this week and noticing these college kids kicking off into the endzone or within the 5 or 10 with incredible consitency.

How can college kickers do this but our kicker is putting it on the 20-25 every time?[/QUOTE]

In the NFL they kickoff from the 30, in college it's the 35.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I don't like Danny Smith. I don't care what anyone says, the guy is a bad special teams coach. We have our damn starting defense on coverage and still give up good field position. Antonio Brown is NOT a Redskin, I don't give a **** if he did run that kick back. He nearly cost us the Bears game, and did cost us a Dallas game. He is stupid and he sucks. Get Thrash or Betts back there or Moss for Christs sake.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]In the NFL they kickoff from the 30, in college it's the 35.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know, but that's just a 5-yard difference. Doesn't explain the 20-30 yard difference in Hall's kicks. He just seems consistently short on kickoffs.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=mheisig]Yeah I know, but that's just a 5-yard difference. Doesn't explain the 20-30 yard difference in Hall's kicks. He just seems consistently short on kickoffs.[/QUOTE]

Actually it's a huge difference.

Touchbacks were getting out of control before the NFL backed it up to the 30.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]Even when Novak was in, he was dropping it at the 10, but then when we played the Cardinals, he was was putting it at the goal line.[/QUOTE]No I paid close attention to Novac's kicks and his kicks were short. Brown caught his TD at the 15, and one kick went to the 20. Maybe we can sign Kurt Smith from UVA next year just for kickoffs. It would be worth it.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Actually it's a huge difference.

Touchbacks were getting out of control before the NFL backed it up to the 30.[/QUOTE]

How does kicking off from 5 yards deeper result in a 15-25 yard shorter kick? I'm talking about the actual spot on the field where the ball hits or is downed. Seems like kicking off from 5 yards deeper ought to result in a 5 yard shorter kick, not three or four times that.

Granted I'm basing all of this off having watched way too much college football this week. Anyone have some stats on the average kickoff length and Hall's average kickoff? I still think he's gotta be quite a bit shorter than the norm.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

Our kick coverage has looked weak to me. I wonder sometimes if they ask Hall to kick is short...

I'm ok with Brown, and he earned his right to catch em with the Arizona game. But I admit that I'm still nervous with him back there.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

A quick look at NFL.com player stats would seem to indicate John Halls' leg is declining:

[B]Kickoff Average[/B]

1997: 66.6
1998: 67.8
1999: 66.0
2000: 64.6
2001: 63.3
2002: 62.4
2003: 61.5
2004: 60.8
2005: 60.5

I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but there's a very obvious, steady decline in distance.

Taking a quick look at other kickers there doesn't seem to be a tremendous difference - average kickoff is in the 62 - 65 yard range.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I think someone already said this, it was rumored earlier in the year that Smith was having Novak kicking off high and short on purpose to allow the coverage team more time to get down the field. Perhaps this strategy has carried over to Hall?

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think someone already said this, it was rumored earlier in the year that Smith was having Novak kicking off high and short on purpose to allow the coverage team more time to get down the field. Perhaps this strategy has carried over to Hall?[/QUOTE]

Ah, now there's an explanation.

Guess in theory it would allow better coverage. Does anyone think it's working?

Seems like our opponents are always starting out with pretty good field position.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

On returners, I think the argument is pretty much moot. Moss will be there on punt returns in this game. You can take that to the bank. Remember who Gibbs used to trot out there in the playoffs? Good old 28. He's going to bring out the big guns this game.

I'm not sure if he'd put Moss back there on kickoffs though. If he does, I'd prefer that. But Brown deserves a chance, because he has the speed to do damage. It's just that some games Brown seems very confident, and other times very scared. I think you just have to guage him on each day, if he is scared, take him out and let Betts do it. But Moss would be preferable. After all, it's the playoffs, win or go home. You put your best players out there, injuries be damned.

As for kickoffs, yesterday the Linc's field was in HORRIBLE shape. Hall was losing his footing, which is why that one kick went out of bounds. Akers was doing fine, but he's David Akers. He's the man. In Tampa I think Hall will get back to normal on better footing, and he'll get back to adequate kicking distance.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=mheisig]A quick look at NFL.com player stats would seem to indicate John Halls' leg is declining:

[b]Kickoff Average[/b]

1997: 66.6
1998: 67.8
1999: 66.0
2000: 64.6
2001: 63.3
2002: 62.4
2003: 61.5
2004: 60.8
2005: 60.5

I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but there's a very obvious, steady decline in distance.

Taking a quick look at other kickers there doesn't seem to be a tremendous difference - average kickoff is in the 62 - 65 yard range.[/QUOTE]

Hey, just curious where you got these stats from...Im a big fan of stats and thats definitely not the kind of thing you can find on espn!

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

Did I miss John Halls name on the injury report last week becasue his kickoffs were horrendous...and not just the one he kicked out of bounds. It just seemed like he labored every time just to reach the 10 or 15 yard line. The Eagles seemed to start outside the 30 every possesion. I know he had the injury earlier in the year but his kickoffs seemed better in previous weeks then they were on Sunday.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

Guys I think Betts should return Kick offs!!! Why??? Well I know you all think he saved us in the Card game but I believe that Betts returned one as well against who??? Yes against the Bay....Tampa Bay....these same Bucs!!! He sure looks good to me. Brown needs a lane big enought for a truck to go throught or he hits the ground! Pluse I hold my breath each time this guy gets the ball hoping this isn't the time he puts it on the ground for the other team. By the way he almost did this week looking back on the game!

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

Hall's KO's have been consistently bad over the last 2 years. Maybe the injury has affected his leg strength, but at least his accuracy is still there for FG's.

The answer is probably to get a punter in with a cannon for a leg and let him take KO's. If he isn't reliable enough as a punter, but can boom KO's and is on the market right now, I'd definitely consider carrying a 3rd kicker. In any case getting a quality punter in next year is a definite - I don't think Tupa will be around much longer, if he comes back at all.

As to returner, Brown hasn't shown me any tendencies to fumble in recent weeks. I suspect he worked on his catching and carrying while he was out of the league. What does bother me though is his average, and I can't be sure it's down to him. On a couple of kickoffs he had a guy coming free by the time he got to 20 yards and was hit almost every time around that point. I think they need to look at the blocking on returns and see if that can spring some holes.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]I don't like Danny Smith. I don't care what anyone says, the guy is a bad special teams coach. We have our damn starting defense on coverage and still give up good field position. Antonio Brown is NOT a Redskin, I don't give a **** if he did run that kick back. He nearly cost us the Bears game, and did cost us a Dallas game. He is stupid and he sucks. Get Thrash or Betts back there or Moss for Christs sake.[/QUOTE]

How can you say he is not a Redskin if he won the Arizona game for us?? Seriously our team was not doing anything offensively and without that, again , we would not be in the playoffs! Mistakes are terrible, but when u win games its better, give the kid a break. Only thing that worries me is if he fumbles but that is different story. Sure put in Betts, but AB is not THAT bad as everyone says he is. Betts had a fumble at the start of the second half in the first Giants game that ruined our chances even more if you all remember that too. But I like Trash on punts, I guess I can agree with that.

Re: Kick Off Team Must get better!!!
 

I like Brown's explosiveness on kickoffs. I am petrified every time he touches the ball though.