Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Does anyone else think that the Brees injury could increase the market for Ramsey a bit? Now I think there is no way SD can get rid of either guy (Brees coming off major surgery is now (a) bad trade value and (b) too risky to go an entire season with after trading Rivers)...they are going to have to franchise Brees again and see how he heals. I really feel for the guy, to be honest...

At the same time, this takes arguably the hottest QB off the market. Now Ramsey seems like the best young guy on the trade market.

Chris Mortensen said he thought the Skins could get a 3rd or possibly 2nd rounder for Ramsey a couple weeks ago, so Im hoping that Brees/Rivers coming off the market pushes that 3rd/2nd to a solid 2nd round pick.

Thoughts?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

i dont know enough about john abrahams to want him on our team.that seems to be the talk.the jets contact talks with him are nill right now.if he can play ,this would seem a better trade than an unproven second rounder

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=amorentz]Does anyone else think that the Brees injury could increase the market for Ramsey a bit? Now I think there is no way SD can get rid of either guy (Brees coming off major surgery is now (a) bad trade value and (b) too risky to go an entire season with after trading Rivers)...they are going to have to franchise Brees again and see how he heals. I really feel for the guy, to be honest...

At the same time, this takes arguably the hottest QB off the market. Now Ramsey seems like the best young guy on the trade market.

Chris Mortensen said he thought the Skins could get a 3rd or possibly 2nd rounder for Ramsey a couple weeks ago, so Im hoping that Brees/Rivers coming off the market pushes that 3rd/2nd to a solid 2nd round pick.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]That was a nasty looking play where Brees got injured. Don't be so fast to think Ramsey will be gone next year. His cap hit is not to bad and Gibbs likes two QB's with exp. and I think Ramsey is learning alot watching Brunell.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

I do not know if Ramsey would be a good starter at SD, I guess that is because I am not a huge Ramsey fan, but we will see.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

It does help Ramsey but not drastically. There's a few QBs coming out of the college ranks this year that promise to hit the ground running. And with GB increasing the likehood of Favre parting ways, maybe there won't be a lot of teams interested.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=hooskins]I do not know if Ramsey would be a good starter at SD, I guess that is because I am not a huge Ramsey fan, but we will see.[/QUOTE]

No, I wasnt suggesting that he be the starter there, just that the market for him might pick up a bit because none of the SD QBs are going to be on the market.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Word is the Chargers weren't going to part with Rivers even before Brees' injury unless they were to receive a killer offer.

This [i]could[/i] help the market for Ramsey, but I don't think it will change things much.

Who knows, as firstdown said Ramsey could be back next year. We'll have to wait and see.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Look at the Pool of available QB's?????????? it's like the pool of PROVEN, GOOD, available head coach's. It doesn't exist. It is a SELLERS market. All demand, and very little supply. It can't get much better for us if we choose to deal him.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Ramsey could be back next year. A lot will depend on Campbell's readiness and the market for PR. There's no way I see us simply giving Ramsey away. Gibbs already has QB paranoia so I don't see Ramsey moving unless we can find a really good deal.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

I've thought every since the Giants game that Gibbs would be very, very reluctant to let Ramsey go. It would have to be a really sweet deal.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Well I think the Saints getting the #2 pick hurts us because that was a perfect sutuation to send Ramsey to for a 2nd round pick but looking around the league I only see a few teams in need of a starting QB..

Arizona, though they will probably go after Culpepper in a trade
Detroit, Harrington is probably done
KC as a succesor to Trent Green
Minnesota if they deal Culpepper

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Campbell is going to play at some point, might as well get what we can from Ramsey in a trade. Abraham seems too good to be true, adding a 10+ sack guy to our defensive line rotation makes put our defense over the top. Ramsey is not the guy here, so we may as well get something of value in return from him. I agree that he's as immobile as Bledsoe.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Once the season ends Ramsey will make public his desire to move on. He will not be happy being #2 again next year and as Gibbs proved with LC last year when a player makes noise they will be sent packing. Ramsey was a good soldier this year when he could have rocked the boat...he deserves his chance to move on ad try and start elsewhere. Some team needs to come up with some trade offeres though...he will not just be given away.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

with the Saints in the #2 spot they will either take Lienarht or Young. If they hire Mike Martz they will get Leinarht. I wanted to trade for Darren Howard. But if the Abraham for Ramsey trade goes through, I'd take it in a heart beat. My question is what will they do with Arrington?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Maybe trade LA for a decent cornerback?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Question to everyone who thinks Ramsey is going to be traded, who's going to backup Brunell? [not Campbell] Do we need another QB to come in and spend a year learning Gibbs offense? Who will then have to play if Brunell goes down. Ramsey is very reasonable I do not trade him for less than a #1. and even then I believe his value to us is worth more than what a #1 might bring back.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Question to everyone who thinks Ramsey is going to be traded, who's going to backup Brunell? [not Campbell] Do we need another QB to come in and spend a year learning Gibbs offense? Who will then have to play if Brunell goes down. Ramsey is very reasonable I do not trade him for less than a #1. and even then I believe his value to us is worth more than what a #1 might bring back.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with you, and if I remember right, Joe Gibbs has said in the past that the most important position is the starting QB, the second most important position is the backup QB. So that makes me think that we just keep Ramsey atleast for 1 more year.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Question to everyone who thinks Ramsey is going to be traded, who's going to backup Brunell? [not Campbell] Do we need another QB to come in and spend a year learning Gibbs offense? Who will then have to play if Brunell goes down. Ramsey is very reasonable I do not trade him for less than a #1. and even then I believe his value to us is worth more than what a #1 might bring back.[/QUOTE]

Why would it not be Campbell? It is the natural evoltuion of his career to step up the work he gets. That having been said, I think patrick is much better alternative in that scenario. However, even though he has done a good job being a team guy through this season, I would be shocked if he does not make a major push to be released/traded in the off-season.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Why would it not be Campbell? It is the natural evoltuion of his carrer to step up the work he gets. That having been said, I think patrick is much better alternative in that scenario. However, even though he has done a good job being a teeam guy through this season, I would be shocked if he does not make a major push to be released/traded in the off-season.[/QUOTE]


Well if you believe Campbell is ready to step in start next season then OK, I find it hard to believe that Brunell, and Ramsey, who played in the offense last season and had a boat load of trouble trying to learn it, will then see Campbell step in and take us to the playoffs. Joey T. said it takes a full year to learn Gibbs system, and that's playing. So I highly doubt Campbell will be ready for quite sometime.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Well if you believe Campbell is ready to step in start next season then OK, I find it hard to believe that Brunell, and Ramsey, who played in the offense last season and had a boat load of trouble trying to learn it, will then see Campbell step in and take us to the playoffs. Joey T. said it takes a full year to learn Gibbs system, and that's playing. So I highly doubt Campbell will be ready for quite sometime.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I said that it would be a logical step in the natural evoulution of things for Campbell (who is assumed to be the starter at some point in time) to take the number two role and start getting more work with the team. I also stated that [b]Patrick is a better alternative[/b] at this time. However, I don't think he will have any part in that role!

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

I am old school and am convinced that QBs need four to five years of seasoning before they should start. Starting Harrington, Carr, Boller in their first year hasn't helped them or their teams. Although you can make a case for Little Eli and Drew Brees, they really are the exception when you think of it [b]and[/b] they have strong rushers in their backfield. Harrington, Carr, Boller, Orton and Ramsey will develop into fine starters along the line of Steve Buerlein and Brad Johnson (who spent his first five years as a back-up with the Vikings).

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. Also, teams should grow their stars and keep them. Hard to do these days, but still the ideal situation. If Joe Gibbs can work his magic, maybe Ramsey stays.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Master4Caster]I am old school and am convinced that QBs need four to five years of seasoning before they should start. Starting Harrington, Carr, Boller in their first year hasn't helped them or their teams. Although you can make a case for Little Eli and Drew Brees, they really are the exception when you think of it [b]and[/b] they have strong rushers in their backfield. Harrington, Carr, Boller, Orton and Ramsey will develop into fine starters along the line of Steve Buerlein and Brad Johnson (who spent his first five years as a back-up with the Vikings).

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. Also, teams should grow their stars and keep them. Hard to do these days, but still the ideal situation. If Joe Gibbs can work his magic, maybe Ramsey stays.[/QUOTE]

Yea, 'Im old school as well. In all honesty I cannot imagine anyone saying "were gonna' bench this dude for 5 years @ 5 mil per" so he can mature. The only one I can remember doing (I am sure there are more) something like that is the Skins, when Theisman was the backup to Kilmer, and it took him forever to prove himself better.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.[/QUOTE]

What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=irish]PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.[/QUOTE]

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.[/QUOTE]

Great post, I totally agree.

I definitely agree that teams aren't likely to see Ramsey as a guy you can bring in and just hand the job to. He's definitely a guy that will be brought in to compete for a job. And that kind of guy doesn't command a #1 pick. And I think we'd be extremely luck to get a #2.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok I thought you were talking about someone they already had on the roster.

And like you and Matty say I really can't see us getting a #1 pick for Ramsey straight up. If we do, then let us never, ever, ever again have a "We Need a General Manager" thread

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

I'd predict that Ramsey sticks around for one more year as the heir to Brunell. Then Ramsey will get a couple years to run the show while Campbell is the heir. It is not common in the league to do such because of the cap but this is how Gibbs always liked it before and if they can figure a reasonable way to justify the the cap numbers I would imagine that's Gibbs' version of the perfect situation.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs pulled PR in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. PR had not had a chance to do anything good or bad. MB had done nothing last year and people wrote him off for dead but Gibbs believed (correctly) that MB could get the job done better than PR could. Had Gibbs believed PR could get the job done he would not have pulled PR in the 1st game.

If pulling someone (who Gibbs said all preseason was the starter) in the 1st half of the 1st game of the year and replacing him with someone who was a complete stiff the year before is not a lack of confidence, I dont know what is.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

I still think the real QB market will be shown when Volek and SChaub's futures with TN and ATL are known.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?[/QUOTE]

You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Master4Caster]I am old school ...

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. [/QUOTE]


You may be Old School, but I'm Old Dirt!

I see MB calling it quits after the end of this season. He proved that he wasn't washed up, and he wants to go out on a high note, not as a has-been. The man has a ton of class!

PRam will inherit the Redskin earth!



A "We want DaBux!" smilie needed here!

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=irish]You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.[/QUOTE]

What is there to joke about?

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

Of course Gibbs didn't have much confidence in him, despite the fact the majority of fans supported Gibbs' claim that Ramsey was the starter, I guarantee you in the back of our minds we were all concerned given Ramsey's mediocre showing during the preseason.

I love how people make it seem like Ramsey was tearing it up during the 1st half of the Bears game. He threw a pick and fumbled twice, to Gibbs he had seen enough and couple that with his unimpressive offseason, he made the quick hook.

The opportunity that presented itself that I was referring to was when Ramsey went down, that was all Gibbs needed to get Brunell back in.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

Ramsey is going to be in the same situation he was here. He is not going to be brought in and handed the team, "here its yours, here are the keys" He is going to have to compete with a veteran, or maybe a draft pick to earn the spot. I would bet its not going to be here.

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

[/QUOTE]


I agree Matty. It's unbelievable how people on this site forget how INCONSISTENT and MEDIOCRE Ramsey is. He's had a few good games to give us false hope - sandwiched between a bunch of bad games.

He's a good QB and a good guy, but not the guy we want "for the future." We need to get whatever we can for him and move on. If he wants to take a pay cut and remain as a back-up - that's great! But not the starter.

I mean, he did OK in the Giants game, but that was actually a pretty sorry throw to Moss and an INCREDIBLE catch. Without that play, his numbers wouldn't look that great.

Let's trade Ramsey, and if Brunell calls it quits, then we go with Campbell. If he stinks it up then we find another option. RAMSEY AIN'T IT!

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

These scenarios we are talking about are far-fetched, to say the least. We can't afford to have MB around for 1-2 years while keeping PR and JC around and happy. We invested a #1 pick in JC, he is the future QB of this organization. He should definitely be the #2 guy next year, so he can take over the year after. In this day and age you just can't have your future QB waiting around 3-5 years to maybe have a shot at playing. Obviously that has worked for some QB's in the past (JT, Steve Young, Brad Johnson, etc) but the best QB's in the NFL have learned under fire. Peyton started his 1st year, as did Eli (halfway through). Brees started every year he has been in the NFL. Palmer sat one year behind Kitna before starting. Which top-tier QB's in the league sat for an extended amount of time (2+ yrs) before getting a chance to start?

Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=bigmarley4]These scenarios we are talking about are far-fetched, to say the least. We can't afford to have MB around for 1-2 years while keeping PR and JC around and happy. We invested a #1 pick in JC, he is the future QB of this organization. He should definitely be the #2 guy next year, so he can take over the year after. In this day and age you just can't have your future QB waiting around 3-5 years to maybe have a shot at playing. Obviously that has worked for some QB's in the past (JT, Steve Young, Brad Johnson, etc) but the best QB's in the NFL have learned under fire. Peyton started his 1st year, as did Eli (halfway through). Brees started every year he has been in the NFL. Palmer sat one year behind Kitna before starting. Which top-tier QB's in the league sat for an extended amount of time (2+ yrs) before getting a chance to start?[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this. If Campbell isn't the #2 next year, then I think that sends a message to everyone that he is not developing as was hoped. Given his history as a first round pick that Gibbs traded a small farm for, and given that he's had a chance to be coached and watch Brunell, and given that the offensive line next year will be strong, I see absolutely positively no reason why he should not be capable of #2 status. I have heard nothing, NOTHING suggesting that he is having a hard time developing. Just because we haven't heard anything on the guy doesn't mean he's not coming along, after all, we've been pretty busy hearing all about things like Portis and Moss setting records, Arrington's discontent, and making the playoffs!

If Ramsey wants a different situation, Gibbs will accomodate him and trade him. Gibbs doesn't like to keep guys that don't want to be here. It's just that a better situation for Ramsey won't mean a clear cut starting job. It will mean a chance to compete with one other guy for the starting job, instead of competing with Brunell in the short term and Campbell in the long term.