Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I have read several threads speculating on the fate of Patrick Ramsey. Will he stay or go? If he's traded, where will he go? How much is he worth? What I have not seen is an analysis from HIS point of view.

His contract expires in 2006. It's true that the Redskins could trade his contract "as is" to any team of their choosing, but why would any team be interested in such a contract? Why invest the time in teaching your system to a QB who is under contract for only one season?

It seems to me that, for Ramsey to have any trade value at all, he will have to be willing to sign a new contract with the Redskins' trade partner. And, if I'm right, this gives him considerable control over his situation. For example, there has been a lot of speculation about him going to the Jets. In his shoes, given their current situation, would you sign a new extended contract with the Jets?

There has also been some speculation that the hiring of Al Saunders might change the dynamic of the situation so that Ramsey might end up a Redskin in 2006 and beyond after all. But, the same problem arises. Unless Patrick is willing to sign an extension (and why would he?), why spend the time teaching him Saunder's complex offensive scheme?

I consider myself a knowledgeable fan generally but I'll admit that, when it comes to the NFL rules on free agency, the salary cap, and the rules on trades, I have no interest beyond the broad strokes. So, for those of you with a better grasp...is my analysis, that Ramsey has some control with respect to a trade, wrong? If so, what have I missed?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I have read several threads speculating on the fate of Patrick Ramsey. Will he stay or go? If he's traded, where will he go? How much is he worth? What I have not seen is an analysis from HIS point of view.

His contract expires in 2006. It's true that the Redskins could trade his contract "as is" to any team of their choosing, but why would any team be interested in such a contract? Why invest the time in teaching your system to a QB who is under contract for only one season?

It seems to me that, for Ramsey to have any trade value at all, he will have to be willing to sign a new contract with the Redskins' trade partner. And, if I'm right, this gives him considerable control over his situation. For example, there has been a lot of speculation about him going to the Jets. In his shoes, given their current situation, would you sign a new extended contract with the Jets?

There has also been some speculation that the hiring of Al Saunders might change the dynamic of the situation so that Ramsey might end up a Redskin in 2006 and beyond after all. But, the same problem arises. Unless Patrick is willing to sign an extension (and why would he?), why spend the time teaching him Saunder's complex offensive scheme?

I consider myself a knowledgeable fan generally but I'll admit that, when it comes to the NFL rules on free agency, the salary cap, and the rules on trades, I have no interest beyond the broad strokes. So, for those of you with a better grasp...is my analysis, that Ramsey has some control with respect to a trade, wrong? If so, what have I missed?[/QUOTE]welcome! imo ramsey's contract will have no bearing on his trade worth. when he goes to another team he will most likely have to play for an extension. no team will just give him a multi-year deal unless he proves it on the feild first. there are plenty of teams willing to take a chance on a qb for only a 1 year deal.see Kurt Warner last year with the cards, they signed him to a one year contract and he had to play to get an extension which they gave him this year. i know warner was a fa but its still the same concept

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Ramsey will go to any team if they start him.

Were you serious about why bother teaching your back-up QB the offensive system?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod]welcome! imo ramsey's contract will have no bearing on his trade worth. when he goes to another team he will most likely have to play for an extension. no team will just give him a multi-year deal unless he proves it on the feild first. there are plenty of teams willing to take a chance on a qb for only a 1 year deal.see Kurt Warner last year with the cards, they signed him to a one year contract and he had to play to get an extension which they gave him this year. i know warner was a fa but its still the same concept[/QUOTE]

I see a difference. The Cards didn't have to give up anything to sign Warner.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=81forHOF]Ramsey will go to any team if they start him.

Were you serious about why bother teaching your back-up QB the offensive system?[/QUOTE]

I think Ramsey's brighter than that (double major in Business and Accounting as I recall). Put himself in another situation where failure is likely? He's been there and done that.

The general consensus is Brunell and Campbell in 2006. Ramsey isn't the number two anymore unless there's a drastic shift in plans.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I see a difference. The Cards didn't have to give up anything to sign Warner.[/QUOTE]i know they didnt have to give anythin up for him,i was just using him as an example,i just dont think his contract is going to be a sticking point with our trade partner when it comes to ramseys trade worth. i also dont see us getting more than a fifth rounder for him. maybe a #4 if we are lucky.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod]i know they didnt have to give anythin up for him,i was just using him as an example,i just dont think his contract is going to be a sticking point with our trade partner when it comes to ramseys trade worth. i also dont see us getting more than a fifth rounder for him. maybe a #4 if we are lucky.[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking this way: If Ramsey is traded to a team of his choice, and he's willing to sign a new contract, his value goes up.

If there are two teams interested, and he's willing to sign an extension with both, there could be a bidding war, and his value goes way up.

I don't think we can predict how this will play out right now.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod]welcome! imo ramsey's contract will have no bearing on his trade worth. when he goes to another team he will most likely have to play for an extension. no team will just give him a multi-year deal unless he proves it on the feild first. there are plenty of teams willing to take a chance on a qb for only a 1 year deal.see Kurt Warner last year with the cards, they signed him to a one year contract and he had to play to get an extension which they gave him this year. i know warner was a fa but its still the same concept[/QUOTE]
if a team is only gonna get him for a one-year tryout, then they're not gonna give up anything more than like a 6th rouder or somethin

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I'm thinking this way: If Ramsey is traded to a team of his choice, and he's willing to sign a new contract, his value goes up.

[/QUOTE]ok, im thinking this way , if i am interested in ramsey, i dont want to commit to anything right yet. i dont want to commit to a long term deal for a qb that has done NOTHING in the nfl. on the other hand if i am ramsey, i dont want to sign a deal because i will be a fa in a potentialy uncapped year. this is all speculation now but i dont see a "bidding war" for a player that hasnt produced like a first rounder should. this is coming from a guy who has a ramsey jersey that is never to be worn again.:Flush:. i once thought ramsey was our qb of the future

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

i dont think ramsey leaving washington is a done deal yet.coach likes to have an experienced back up and the skins are not just going to give ramsey away just for the sake of parting ways.unless campbell really steps it up and mini camps and pre season play,i can see ramsey returning

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod]ok, im thinking this way , if i am interested in ramsey, i dont want to commit to anything right yet. i dont want to commit to a long term deal for a qb that has done NOTHING in the nfl. on the other hand if i am ramsey, i dont want to sign a deal because i will be a fa in a potentialy uncapped year. this is all speculation now but i dont see a "bidding war" for a player that hasnt produced like a first rounder should. this is coming from a guy who has a ramsey jersey that is never to be worn again.:Flush:. i once thought ramsey was our qb of the future[/QUOTE]

Well, there are are about eight teams who need help at the QB position. Some of them will be committing to five year deals with college players who have never played a down in the NFL.

Naturally, it comes down to the GM's opinion of Ramsey's performance. I don't find it hard to believe that a few will rate him higher than Joe Gibbs.

I'm among those who haven't closed the book on Patrick.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Well, there are are about eight teams who need help at the QB position. Some of them will be committing to five year deals with college players who have never played a down in the NFL.

Naturally, it comes down to the GM's opinion of Ramsey's performance. I don't find it hard to believe that a few will rate him higher than Joe Gibbs.

I'm among those who haven't closed the book on Patrick.[/QUOTE]i think spurrier ruinned him with his 'chuck and duck' offense(if he could he would have had only 4 blockers for patrick), but i do still like the man. he has showed amazing compossure when he was benched and i too still hope he has a successful carreer. i just think its time for both parties to go their seperate ways. no hard feelings

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod]i think spurrier ruinned him with his 'chuck and duck' offense(if he could he would have had only 4 blockers for patrick), but i do still like the man. he has showed amazing compossure when he was benched and i too still hope he has a successful carreer. i just think its time for both parties to go their seperate ways. no hard feelings[/QUOTE]

I completely agree that it's best that he move on. I disagree on the Spurrier-ruined-him theory. IMO promising QBs are ruined by coaches who go ballistic on the mistakes of young QBs causing them to become tentative. I haven't seen that in Ramsey. He's still got the gunslinger mentality...which is fine with me.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]i dont think ramsey leaving washington is a done deal yet.coach likes to have an experienced back up and the skins are not just going to give ramsey away just for the sake of parting ways.unless campbell really steps it up and mini camps and pre season play,i can see ramsey returning[/QUOTE]

If you see Ramsey as the potential back-up (number two), who do you see as third-string...Brunell or Campbell? Keeping Ramsey as third-string doesn't sound like good planning for us. Does it?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

brunell is the starter as long as coach gibbs is still here,my point is that it took campbell almost 3 full years at auburn before he had a good grasp on their offense.i would be willing to bet the skins offense is probably a tad more complicated.if no real jump in campbells learning curve,ramsey stays next season as the back up

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]brunell is the starter as long as coach gibbs is still here,my point is that it took campbell almost 3 full years at auburn before he had a good grasp on their offense.i would be willing to bet the skins offense is probably a tad more complicated.if no real jump in campbells learning curve,ramsey stays next season as the back up[/QUOTE]

I thought the thing was that they changed the system in Auburn 2 or 3 times.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]brunell is the starter as long as coach gibbs is still here,my point is that it took campbell almost 3 full years at auburn before he had a good grasp on their offense.i would be willing to bet the skins offense is probably a tad more complicated.if no real jump in campbells learning curve,ramsey stays next season as the back up[/QUOTE]

We were told by Joe Gibbs that one of Campbell's plusses was that he had learned three different systems at Auburn. We have been told by Joe Gibbs that Campbell, having done everything asked of him, is readly to play and can be expected to play well.

Now, unless Joe has been feeding us a whole load of crapola, it's hard to imagine Campbell, who cost us three picks, running as our number three again.

On the other hand, if Gibbs leaves the final say on the QB situation in Al Saunders' hands, it's a new ballgame.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

The more I look at it, the more I feel Ramsey may be staying in Washington, simply because right now the market seems pretty flooded with QBs. I don't know if we'll get what we want for Ramsey.

Regardless of where he goes (minus an NFC E team) I wish him tons of luck. I really like him as a person and a player. I feel he got a really raw deal under Gibbs.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I definitely agree with Daseal. I think that PRam will be back in the 06 and probably even play in some games. My guess is that Brunell starts the season and both Ramsey and Campbell will both have chances to finish it out.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]The more I look at it, the more I feel Ramsey may be staying in Washington, simply because right now the market seems pretty flooded with QBs. I don't know if we'll get what we want for Ramsey.

Regardless of where he goes (minus an NFC E team) I wish him tons of luck. I really like him as a person and a player. I feel he got a really raw deal under Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

You could be right but bear in mind that most of the QBs available are third-tier staples. Ramsey is currently regarded as second-tier by most GMs. Drew Brees is the only top-tier QB that could move on and he's coming off a surgery.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

How about this for a possible destination? San Francisco.

If memory serves, not only do they have about a zillion dollars in signing bonus tied up in Alex Smith, but he isn't close to ready. Oh, and neither was anyone else.

A one year deal for a guy who will likely be a placeholder, but won't break the bank if he shines. Sounds like a good situation for them.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Suppose ther's no CBA deal. Should we cut Brunell, keep Patrick and let he and J-Camp compete for opening day starter? Does Patrick even want to stay here? If there's no extension then anything is possible.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I could see Ramsey in SF. Their division is so lousy that he might win a few games. He is definitely starting qb in SF.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]How about this for a possible destination? San Francisco.

If memory serves, not only do they have about a zillion dollars in signing bonus tied up in Alex Smith, but he isn't close to ready. Oh, and neither was anyone else.

A one year deal for a guy who will likely be a placeholder, but won't break the bank if he shines. Sounds like a good situation for them.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. SF is not one of the options I'd have picked but I understand your thinking.

But, since no poster has stepped forward with a challenge to my premise that Patrick has a degree of control in his future, I'll try to put myself in his shoes and see where it takes us.
1) Patrick wants a chance to make big bucks by winning the starting job on a team that offers a good supporting cast and first-rate coaches. That isn't the Redskins because...if Ramsey won the starting job in 2006 and competed successfully, the team wouldn't have the cap room to pay him his fair market value in 2007. Reason: They are already committed to Campbell and Brunell.

2) Ramsey played the good soldier this past season but he'd be a fool to do it again in 2006. The smart play for Ramsey is to play hardball this offseason: He'll give Joe a list of teams he'd be willing to play for and ask to be traded or released. What would Gibbs gain by keeping a player who doesn't want to be here? That's just asking for trouble.

I think Ramsey has some control in his situation. My bet is that a trade will be made but it will be to a team like Miami and not the New York Jets.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

ramsey has no control cause he hasn't proven anything. He'll sign with whoever wants him caue otherwise he might not have a job, and 1.88mill is better than vet min. If ramsey played hardball gibbs would tell him to shove it. he's either going where there's trade value if someone offers. It is important for him to play and prove his value, but he has no leverage at all. If he goes hardball and only wants to go to teams that aren't offering a good pick, the skins can trade him to a non-preferred team instead just to F with him.

70chip, if there's no new cba, cutting brunell costs us 300k more than keeping him. if there is a new cba then we save 5.4mill this year and 1mill next year with a post june 1 cut (the best cap deal the skins can make with the current roter of contracts).

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]ramsey has no control cause he hasn't proven anything. He'll sign with whoever wants him caue otherwise he might not have a job, and 1.88mill is better than vet min. If ramsey played hardball gibbs would tell him to shove it. he's either going where there's trade value if someone offers. It is important for him to play and prove his value, but he has no leverage at all. If he goes hardball and only wants to go to teams that aren't offering a good pick, the skins can trade him to a non-preferred team instead just to F with him.[/QUOTE]

How badly can the Skins screw Ramsey? After 2006, he's an UFA whether he plays with us or some bottom-feeder.

If your low opinion of Patrick is shared around the league, then you're right. But, I seriously doubt that it is.

L. Coles wanted to go back to the Jets. Joe accomodated him. As it turned out, we ended up with Santana. Maybe we'll get lucky again by trading Ramsey, another malcontent.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper are both big options.
Ramsey, Schuab (if ATL deals him), Rivers (possible if no one bites on Brees), Pennington (I'd never take him, but someone will), Volek (if TN is willing to deal, which if Young is #1 on their list, they probably will). All these guys could pull more interest than Ramsey.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]How badly can the Skins screw Ramsey? After 2006, he's an UFA whether he plays with us or some bottom-feeder.

If your low opinion of Patrick is shared around the league, then you're right. But, I seriously doubt that it is.

L. Coles wanted to go back to the Jets. Joe accomodated him. As it turned out, we ended up with Santana. Maybe we'll get lucky again by trading Ramsey, another malcontent.[/QUOTE]

and guess what? if the jets didn't offer up moss, the skins would have let coles rot. they didn't trade him to the jets to make him happy, they did it cause they were offered value.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper are both big options.
Ramsey, Schuab (if ATL deals him), Rivers (possible if no one bites on Brees), Pennington (I'd never take him, but someone will), Volek (if TN is willing to deal, which if Young is #1 on their list, they probably will). All these guys could pull more interest than Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

I won't argue with your statement that "all these guys could pull more interest than Ramsey," but the question is: How likely is it that they will?

The guys with the big reps are high risk because of injuries. Rivers hasn't played a down yet in the NFL, has he? Schuab and Volek haven't shown much.

I have a hunch that Ramsey will draw strong interest but that might simply be because I'm still high on him.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]and guess what? if the jets didn't offer up moss, the skins would have let coles rot. they didn't trade him to the jets to make him happy, they did it cause they were offered value.[/QUOTE]

Well, guess what? Joe Gibbs obviously doesn't think much of Ramsey. How much value do you think he expects to get for him? How hard will it be to make an acceptable trade?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]
The guys with the big reps are high risk because of injuries. Rivers hasn't played a down yet in the NFL, has he? Schuab and Volek haven't shown much.

I have a hunch that Ramsey will draw strong interest but that might simply be because I'm still high on him.[/QUOTE]


volek has shown a lot more than ramsey. 26/13 TD/int vs 34/29, 60.3% completion vs 55.7%...

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Well, guess what? Joe Gibbs obviously doesn't think much of Ramsey. How much value do you think he expects to get for him? How hard will it be to make an acceptable trade?[/QUOTE]

well it kinda nukes the ramsey has control of his trade arguement, since he has to play for his future contract and any team he wants to go to has to offer value equal to what the club he doesn't want to go to offers.

Right now there's no way he'll want a long term contract since it'd be worth pennies. Theonly thing he could possibly ask for is a chance to start this season... and i doubt most teams are going to make offers that don't need a tarting QB (even if only as a stopgap). If he likes his destination, it'll only be coincidental.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

yeah i remember in 2004 when mcnair was injured, volek stepped in and was awesome with drew bennett. I'd love to have him as a backup qb. this year bennett didn't do anything with mcnair at qb.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=mooby]yeah i remember in 2004 when mcnair was injured, volek stepped in and was awesome with drew bennett. I'd love to have him as a backup qb. this year bennett didn't do anything with mcnair at qb.[/QUOTE]
he also didnt have mason on the other side this year

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper are both big options.
Ramsey, Schuab (if ATL deals him), Rivers (possible if no one bites on Brees), Pennington (I'd never take him, but someone will), Volek (if TN is willing to deal, which if Young is #1 on their list, they probably will). All these guys could pull more interest than Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

A couple of other guys who could be on the market that have shown more than Ramsey are Griese and Kerry Collins. I think That Guy put it best, if Ramsey goes to a team he likes it will be coincidental. I'm sure the Redskins will take into consideration where he'd like to be traded to, but in the end they have to do what's best for the Washington Redskins, not Patrick Ramsey.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]volek has shown a lot more than ramsey. 26/13 TD/int vs 34/29, 60.3% completion vs 55.7%...[/QUOTE]

With selected stats, you can prove anything. However, Volek might well be worth more on the market than Ramsey if his knee will pass a medical exam.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]A couple of other guys who could be on the market that have shown more than Ramsey are Griese and Kerry Collins. I think That Guy put it best, if Ramsey goes to a team he likes it will be coincidental. I'm sure the Redskins will take into consideration where he'd like to be traded to, but in the end they have to do what's best for the Washington Redskins, not Patrick Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

So, if Ramsey won't sign a new agreement, what teams do you think would be possible trade partners, interested in renting him for a year?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]well it kinda nukes the ramsey has control of his trade arguement, since he has to play for his future contract and any team he wants to go to has to offer value equal to what the club he doesn't want to go to offers.
[/QUOTE]

Here's the scenario:

Ramsey is willing to sign a two or three year deal with team A but not with B. Don't you agree that his value to team A is higher and therefore they are in a better position to compensate the Redskins than team B?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]So, if Ramsey won't sign a new agreement, what teams do you think would be possible trade partners, interested in renting him for a year?[/QUOTE]

Well the Dolphins or Jets are the most commonly mentioned. Particularly if let's say one of them is able to draft Jay Cutler. The Saints would fall into that category (by the way, might as well add Aaron Brooks to the list of QBs that could be available this spring). And that might be where he'd like to be, since it's close to home. And if the Raiders do part ways with Kerry Collins, I'd be really surprised if they think the answer is Tuiasosopo.

Then there's the other extreme. He goes somewhere where he sits for one more year but takes over in 2007. If the Vikings part ways with Daunte, they'll have 38 year old Brad Johnson behind center, the Chiefs have 36 year old Trent Green. How many more years do those guys have?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]With selected stats, you can prove anything. However, Volek might well be worth more on the market than Ramsey if his knee will pass a medical exam.[/QUOTE]

those are their career stats, how are you suppposed to measure QBs? instead of decrying the arguement just because it doesn't support your point, how about rebutting it with actual facts?

volek - 278.8ypg (including 426 and 492 yard games)
ramsey - 206.11ypg

the only stat ramsey has thats better is w/l, volek is 3-7, ramsey is 9-13 (discounting the two games he started but left with injury immediately)
neither one has a great w/l and the skins have generally been more talented.