CBA talks have broken down again
 

CBA talks have broken down again, according to the latest from an ESPN update on sports talk 980 at 4:45pm today :(

not good.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

:mad::censored::hitfan::insane::Smoker::doh::frusty::soapbox::doh::confused-:eek::madani: :censored::banghead::insane::spank::hitfan::spank::banghead::censored::mad::frusty::doh: :insane::soapbox::Smoker::madani::banghead::Smoker::spank::confused-:soapbox::hitfan: :banghead::mad::frusty: :madani: :censored::frusty::spank::insane::confused-:eek: :soapbox::Smoker::doh::doh::banghead::insane::hitfan::confused-:eek::banghead::mad::Smoker: :soapbox: :doh::stop: :Smoker::madani::cussing::mad::confused-:censored::frusty::soapbox::madani::spank::eek::confused-:hitfan::censored: :mad::angry-smi:spank: :doh::soapbox::confused-:banghead::Smoker::eek::confused-:bs::censored::madani::frusty::mad::soapbox::hitfan: :Smoker::doh: :banghead::eek: :censored: :frusty::madani::banghead::insane: :doh::censored::insane:

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

We're gonna be so f'ed.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Honestly, I'm not too worried. I know what the possible implications could be if it isn't signed, but I think they'll get it all figured out.

I just can't see, under any circumstances, us losing about 1/4 of our roster.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I'm not sweating it.
We have Gibbs and no one else does.

He'll win with 9 players on the field if needed.

Hail Skins

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]CBA talks have broken down again, according to the latest from an ESPN update on sports talk 980 at 4:45pm today :(

not good.[/QUOTE]


Those ESPN folks just love to keep us guessing. My dog has more inside information than some of those people and my couch has at times come up with equal or better NFL insider analysis. The league conference call isn't until 6pm eastern time from what I read so I figure the owners should have the chance to talk before we really need to freak out about this.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

To Much Pressure Ahhhh!!!!

Anyone else thinking that an NBA style cap is starting to look real good?

(NBA Cap rules.
Teams can play with a payroll over the cap. However those teams with payrolls that exceed the salary cap will not be able to acquire free agents that cost more than the league minimum. Draft choices are set based on their spot in the draft and can be signed by teams with plus-cap payrolls. Players can be traded but only if the lower salary of the players being traded is at least 80% of the higher valued players)

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]To Much Pressure Ahhhh!!!!

Anyone else thinking that an NBA style cap is starting to look real good?[/QUOTE]

not if it comes with gauranteed contracts.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Honestly, I'm not too worried. I know what the possible implications could be if it isn't signed, but I think they'll get it all figured out.

I just can't see, under any circumstances, us losing about 1/4 of our roster.[/QUOTE]

Look at the cap figures and you'll probably think twice. I wish I shared your optimism.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

The Washington Post is reporting the same. Bye, bye, Bowen, Harris, Noble, Wynn, Betts, Hall, Tupa, Thrash, etc.

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022801024.html[/url]

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Posturing on both sides. I think this gets done at the last moment.

If it doesn't the whole league is impacted. The Redskins let a lot of quality people go, but so do a lot of other teams. What I don't like is disruption to team continuity. It takes two or three seasons for a team to jell.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I wonder what the actual monetary difference is. Apparently the sticking point is the fact that the players want a 60% cut of total gross revenue and the owners are only giving 56.2% (Wow that numbers not random at all).

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

now i'm actually glad we don't have a first round pick lol. As long as we sign Chuck Norris, i think we'll be fine. lol just trying to make the best of a bad situation. Looks like we are going to have to prepare for the worst.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Yea this really sucks! I can't be leave that these guys can't work this out. What greedy bitches! :hater: We are going to be really hurting next year if things don't change. :madani:

At least in 2007 we will become the Yankees of the NFL. :happybday Untill the owners lock out the players that is! What a freeking mess. :insane:

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I want to believe the following:

"There is absolutely no way the owners and the players union will allow this catastrophe to happen. They are just waiting until the last minute."

However, I have become convinced that someone with the power to stop the deal, doesn't want the deal. Either a group of owners (maybe the gang of 9, maybe not) or the union are determined to go over the cliff.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I might be dead wrong, but if the CBA doesn't get extended, I have this gut feeling things won't be as bad as they seem right now.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Lets hope when Gibbs said they had a plan for this, he meant it.

Question: How many players do we have to have on the roster on Friday? Is there a minimum?

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I think there's a minimum of 40 players on the roster, something like that. Either way, we have plenty of roster fill right now, so even if we cut a bunch of players that are actually gonna make the team, we'll still have enough for the minimum.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I might be dead wrong, but if the CBA doesn't get extended, I have this gut feeling things won't be as bad as they seem right now.[/QUOTE]

I hope you are right. However, Cerrato and Gibbs have both fairly clearly, if implictly, said in recent days that if no extension is reached, it is going to be pretty bad for the team. I'm getting ready to have my heart broken.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=mooby]I think there's a minimum of 40 players on the roster, something like that. Either way, we have plenty of roster fill right now, so even if we cut a bunch of players that are actually gonna make the team, we'll still have enough for the minimum.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking of it backwards. We can help to keep the core intact while we renegotiate contracts by releasing [u][i]all[/i][/u] the roster fill guys. I posted on this before, but I just hope we have a couple of guys willing to give up some cash now so that we can hold onto a couple more guys.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Hey Canuck,

If you see this, could you answer the following question? The cap sheets that we have up shows the veterans' cap figures. I understand that veterans' salaries are higher than their cap figures since teams get cap "rebates" if they sign older veterans. Do your cap figures reflect these "rebates?"

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

so what players would now have to be cut in addition to the cuts expected?

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I hope you are right. However, Cerrato and Gibbs have both fairly clearly, if implictly, said in recent days that if no extension is reached, it is going to be pretty bad for the team. I'm getting ready to have my heart broken.[/QUOTE]

Well, let's not worry about it too much yet. Just remember, we're not the only team that will have to deal with this. We have Gibbs on our side...we have a great coaching staff. That is one thing that won't change this coming season. We might lose some players we would rather keep, but it could be a blessing in disguise...you just never know.

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Honestly, I'm just trying to think of who I hope survies this......

I'm not going to kid myself anymore....Thursday is going to be really, REALLY bad.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

I am actually scared for the first time


"In past years, you'd see a lot of guys released who maybe still had some name value, but who were really in decline in terms of production," said one AFC team executive who was working late Tuesday, trying to figure out how to pare down a prohibitively bloated cap figure. "This year? People are going to be stunned -- not just by the quantity of players who are cut by Thursday, but by the quality, too. It's going to be ugly. There's going to be blood in the streets and, compared to past years, it's going to be from some bluebloods, guys who can still play."

--part of fatass's article [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2348970"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2348970[/url]

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

This was posted on ES, I dont really know how realistic this is, but heres a read....

[url]http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html[/url]

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]This was posted on ES, I dont really know how realistic this is, but heres a read....

[url="http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html"]http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html[/url][/QUOTE]

that makes it sound easy :D
i'm still scared :(
-------------------

Ok i have stayed away from this topic far to long. Now my understanding(hard to call it that) is that the players want like 60% and the teams are only offering 56. something % of revenues that will be allotted to caps in future years. this much i think i know but this is where i get confused. The rich teams like the skins have less a problem than do the cardinals in giving the players money. In this the poorer teams want to share revenues to afford this shit and the rich teams are like HELL NO. so there are like 3 groups all acting a fool....
Now if i got that right(which i know i dont) wouldn't the poor teams be the first to crack. I mean they will havve to compete with teams w/o a cap. the packers won't be able to afford to stay competitive so wouldn't they just agree on paying more in a cap than being horrible w/o a cap??
I am going to learn everything i can

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]This was posted on ES, I dont really know how realistic this is, but heres a read....

[url]http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html[/url][/QUOTE]

I read this and it seem to work out if all the players help the team out! Here is something that I known not a person wants to hear. Maybe this is a good thing! Let the CBA go away!!! Yes we will take it hard in 06. But we start a new with that damn Cap not hanging over us in 07. Lets face something people that we are in trouble even if a cap is moved up and the CBA is agreeed to. It may not be this year but it will happen soon! :smashfrea To take the hurt now or later but its going to hurt sometime!!! :spank:

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I read this and it seem to work out if all the players help the team out! Here is something that I known not a person wants to hear. Maybe this is a good thing! Let the CBA go away!!! Yes we will take it hard in 06. But we start a new with that damn Cap not hanging over us in 07. Lets face something people that we are in trouble even if a cap is moved up and the CBA is agreeed to. It may not be this year but it will happen soon! :smashfrea To take the hurt now or later but its going to hurt sometime!!! :spank:[/QUOTE]
Yeah well with our luck 2007 will be uncapped then they'll throw it right back on in 2008. I still say the NFL should install a soft cap.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

can someone please explain the 30% rule in common terms? what are the immediate problems that this will bring up for teams, basicly what happens, i am so confused!!!

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

Here is something that know one has said about the new CBA formula that has been put forth. It dosen't take in to account debt on stadiums that some team own like us. It only takes in to account money made! Not money going out! Many of the so called lower money making teams do not own thier on stadiums like we do or New England!

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Well, let's not worry about it too much yet. Just remember, we're not the only team that will have to deal with this. We have Gibbs on our side...we have a great coaching staff. That is one thing that won't change this coming season. We might lose some players we would rather keep, but it could be a blessing in disguise...you just never know.[/QUOTE]

Assuming the extension doesn't get done and our roster blows up, I will be heart broken. However, as you smartly point out, we've got a great coaching staff. I guess it is best to have the cap blow up while Gibbs, Williams, Saunders, and Bugel are here. If anyone can mitigate dramatic losses in talent, it is those guys. While they won't be able to totally mask the deficiencies, they'll do a good job. Good points...

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]can someone please explain the 30% rule in common terms? what are the immediate problems that this will bring up for teams, basicly what happens, i am so confused!!![/QUOTE]

I believe the 30% rule forbids a player's base salary from increasing by 30% from season to season. So, while teams backload deals, they cannot pay a player the minimum the first 6 years of a deal and put $50 million in the last year. The 30% rule effectively hampers a team's cap "creativity" - thereby forcing teams to release guys they don't want to release.

Anyone else, please correct me if I am wrong (which is quite possible).

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Assuming the extension doesn't get done and our roster blows up, I will be heart broken. However, as you smartly point out, we've got a great coaching staff. I guess it is best to have the cap blow up while Gibbs, Williams, Saunders, and Bugel are here. If anyone can mitigate dramatic losses in talent, it is those guys. While they won't be able to totally mask the deficiencies, they'll do a good job. Good points...[/QUOTE]

Gibbs did a lot with guys off the street in a strike year!!!! :headbange

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

We all know that Matt Bowen, Walt Harris, John Hall, James Thrash, Tom Tupa, Brandon Noble, and Patrick Ramsey are going to be cap cuts or traded. We can easily recover from those losses. Cutting or trading those guys and a few other guys you’ve never heard of will likely save the team about $12 million. We’ll likely save another few million on restructured deals (i.e. Randy Thomas, LaVar Arrington, and maybe Mark Brunell).

Even after cutting or trading the above-mentioned players and restructuring a few deals, we’ll likely need to shave off another $4-$6 million. Unfortunately, to get the other $4-6 million, we’ll have to lose some big name players.

The big names players who might be cut barring an extension to the CBA are: Jon Jansen (saves $800K), Marcus Washington (saves $500K), Reynaldo Wynn (saves $400K), Casey Rabach (saves $1.1M), Philip Daniels (saves $800K), David Patten (saves $650K), Joe Salave’a (saves $500K), Ladell Betts (saves $550K), Lemar Marshall (saves $400K). Those cuts would save us roughly $6 million.

Who would cut a player of Jansen’s caliber when it would just save us $800K? The answer: a team that has no options and is FORCED by the cap to make such cuts.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]We all know that Matt Bowen, Walt Harris, John Hall, James Thrash, Tom Tupa, Brandon Noble, and Patrick Ramsey are going to be cap cuts or traded. We can easily recover from those losses. Cutting or trading those guys and a few other guys you’ve never heard of will likely save the team about $12 million. We’ll likely save another few million on restructured deals (i.e. Randy Thomas, LaVar Arrington, and maybe Mark Brunell).

Even after cutting or trading the above-mentioned players and restructuring a few deals, we’ll likely need to shave off another $4-$6 million. Unfortunately, to get the other $4-6 million, we’ll have to lose some big name players.

The big names players who might be cut barring an extension to the CBA are: Jon Jansen (saves $800K), Marcus Washington (saves $500K), Reynaldo Wynn (saves $400K), Casey Rabach (saves $1.1M), Philip Daniels (saves $800K), David Patten (saves $650K), Joe Salave’a (saves $500K), Ladell Betts (saves $550K), Lemar Marshall (saves $400K). Those cuts would save us roughly $6 million.

Who would cut a player of Jansen’s caliber when it would just save us $800K? The answer: a team that has no options and is FORCED by the cap to make such cuts.[/QUOTE]

Why not cut Burnell and keep Ramsey???? Ramsey has a smaller cap then Burnell right?

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Hey Canuck,

If you see this, could you answer the following question? The cap sheets that we have up shows the veterans' cap figures. I understand that veterans' salaries are higher than their cap figures since teams get cap "rebates" if they sign older veterans. Do your cap figures reflect these "rebates?"[/QUOTE]

its only for guys over 450k a year... if they sign with under a 25k bonus and vet min (which could be up over 800k), they don't count over 450k or so.

we're going to need to use a lot of 310k and 235k players to fill out the roster though, even 450k is too much.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]This was posted on ES, I dont really know how realistic this is, but heres a read....

[url="http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html"]http://redskins.scout.com/2/501659.html[/url][/QUOTE]

that plan is complete bullshit. it disregards the 30% rule and assume that nearly 20 players are all going to be perfectly willing to let the skins butcher their contracts and take money from them.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I believe the 30% rule forbids a player's base salary from increasing by 30% from season to season. So, while teams backload deals, they cannot pay a player the minimum the first 6 years of a deal and put $50 million in the last year. The 30% rule effectively hampers a team's cap "creativity" - thereby forcing teams to release guys they don't want to release.

Anyone else, please correct me if I am wrong (which is quite possible).[/QUOTE]

thats right. if you pay him 4mill this year, you can't pay him more than 5.2mill next year etc. it takes effect this year (since there's no cap next season) to prevent a parade of $1 contracts and the formation of super teams (yankees) right before the cap expires.

Re: CBA talks have broken down again
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]Why not cut Burnell and keep Ramsey???? Ramsey has a smaller cap then Burnell right?[/QUOTE]

ugh, no. brunell cost 300k more to cut, ramsey saves 1.6mill... all of the questions here were answered in the cap analysis thread :( guess i'll cut and paste it.