The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

I guess I don't understand the NFLPA's reasoning. The owners are just that, I don't see the employees at Microsoft going to Gates asking for a spare billion. Isn't it Snyder that holds a $600M note for buying the skins, I certainly don't think Arrignton is making any of the debt service payments for Snyder. Where is the player's risk? I don't want to hear injuries, because, if I got paid $1.8M (see below) even for one year, I am sure I could pay off all my debts, buy a nice house, and finish any degree I wanted.

If my math is correct, the salary cap is $95M/team if there are 32 teams that adds up to $3billion in salaries. I have NO sympathy for someone threating management when the average salary is $1.8M ($95M/52 players). I am sure my math is not exact, but I don't think I am too far off.

This is just greed, down and dirty greed. The players need to get their head our of their respective *sses and realize the mathematics of the industry they happen to be a part of. If they push it, there will be the have and have nots, and the average salary will probably go down. Worst, they could have a Hockey type of lockout.

I think this is Upshaw's :smashfrea doing, from the eralier article from the Minnesota center, it seems that NOT all the players know what's going on, or have all the facts. Upshaw has got to have BIG BRASS ONES, to negotiate someonelse's salary with the risk of coming away with nothing.

just my 2 cents (NOT millions)

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy
 

Right now the labor dispute isn't based on the players being greedy. Rather, the owners are fighting amongst themselves as to 1) how to define gross revenues, and 2) how much "cash over cap" should be allowed. Thus the fight is between the super-rich owners and their even richer counterparts.

In any event, I don't have the slightest sympathy for any party that is even remotely involved. The owners are the richest of them all and while they put up the dough to buy the franchise, they don't sweat or shed blood on Sundays. The players are extremely well paid.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

no sympathy for anyone here either. just too much greed for me.

I don't even care what they decide at this point, I just want an answer.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin]I guess I don't understand the NFLPA's reasoning. The owners are just that, I don't see the employees at Microsoft going to Gates asking for a spare billion. Isn't it Snyder that holds a $600M note for buying the skins, I certainly don't think Arrignton is making any of the debt service payments for Snyder. Where is the player's risk? I don't want to hear injuries, because, if I got paid $1.8M (see below) even for one year, I am sure I could pay off all my debts, buy a nice house, and finish any degree I wanted.

If my math is correct, the salary cap is $95M/team if there are 32 teams that adds up to $3billion in salaries. I have NO sympathy for someone threating management when the average salary is $1.8M ($95M/52 players). I am sure my math is not exact, but I don't think I am too far off.

This is just greed, down and dirty greed. The players need to get their head our of their respective *sses and realize the mathematics of the industry they happen to be a part of. If they push it, there will be the have and have nots, and the average salary will probably go down. Worst, they could have a Hockey type of lockout.

I think this is Upshaw's :smashfrea doing, from the eralier article from the Minnesota center, it seems that NOT all the players know what's going on, or have all the facts. Upshaw has got to have BIG BRASS ONES, to negotiate someonelse's salary with the risk of coming away with nothing.

just my 2 cents (NOT millions)[/QUOTE]

That's the most absurd argument I have ever heard. Are you seriously 40? Arrington has his own dept to pay. Those nice rides and mansions don't pay for themselves. And you can't compare your average Joe to NFL players. That's just stupid. If Microsoft isn't paying you enough you can jump ship to Google or Yahoo or whatever company is hiring and make more. If I want make the most money as football player there is only the NFL.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

No one forces them to bye exspensive houses and cars. If they spent money wisley not on all excess they dont need they could live off their money for years. I only make 25,000 a yera and manage to pay all my bills. If owners didnt pay for stadiums and teams would be no NFL. Is alot easier to replace a player than an owner. I could never go to my boss and tell him what he is gonna pay me or I will not come to work. I would be fired. Players today are spoiled and pampered. Go back to the early days of the league they did not make loads of cash but they loved the game. If they whine cause they only make a million dollars then they need to realize how privaliged they are.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

Lifetimeskin I would have to agree with you. The owners and the players are both being too greedy. However, the players may not only be greedy, but stupid also. History has shown that the owners hold the upper hand in these negotiations (they have been able to lock out the players before, get cheap replacements, and recover to become the most financially fit league in the world.) If the players had paid more attention in school, they might realize that history tends to repeat itself.

This union rep, Upshaw, seems like he's not even in touch with his constituents. Right now, he's playing with money that's not even his to lose. He may be royally screwing the people he's supposed to be helping, only time will tell.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I can’t blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

I am not blaming anyone for the tone of this thread or pointing fingers, but please keep it civil. If you can't refrain from personally attacking your "opponent," don't post at all, chill out, and come back when tempers have cooled. This is supposed to be a place to debate the merits of various opinions, not debate who has the biggest ----.

BTW, I have the biggest ----. ;)

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin]Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I can’t blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?[/QUOTE]

and without a cba, the nfl will be eventually be sued under the anti-trust laws as well.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin]Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I can’t blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?[/QUOTE]

If you start a company I agree that you should be able to set the rules for how you manage your money. I as an employee I have the right to maximize my earning. That's capitalism too. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to win and maximize your earnings as an owner, it's in your best interest to field the best players just like it's in the best interest of Microsoft to hire the brightest people. You think the NFL wants to have an anti-trust suits against them? No. Why? Cause they are an illegal entity.

Arrington's money is his money. He can do whatever he wants with it as he EARNED watching vidoes, studying play books and spending countless of hours at the gym. It's not like Arrington is STEALING from Snyder. You make it sound like the players are blackmailing Snyder and et al. If that were true the NFL wouldn't have a CBA to begin with. This is business and everyone has to find mutually satisfactory middle ground.

Last time I checked "if you don't like it, **** off" rarely helps you solve problems. There are many forms of anti-trust. Microsoft's anti trust problems are not out of labor disputes but rather anti competitive activities (killing the competition so to speak). One cannot make comparison between NFL employees and Microsoft employees because Microsoft employees aren't threatening to walkout.

I can't relate to being in a union as I have never been in one. But I do know that the job of a union is not to get screwed in the long run and if that means you hurt a little now so be it. BTW going from $15 to $20 is a 20% increase. The NFL players would be very happy to get 5 percent raise.

I don't know anything about recess but I do know that country folks know nothing about big money. When you do, let me know.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

i kinda agree. These idiots that are negotiating should realize that the NFL has a golden goose. Without it, we are just like MLB, NBA, and NHL. they should work above their petty differences for the good of the everyone involved, instead of being such greedy ass bastards.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=saden1]I do know that country folks know nothing about big money. When you do, let me know.[/QUOTE]

:bs:Ok, so Saden you think you know more about money than country people because you live in Seattle, and I'm assuming you work in the financial sector. You really have no basis to say that country people know nothing about money. You don't know my financial status, for all you know, I might know a little bit more about big money than you.

I agree with you that players have the right to try and maximize their salaries, as employees. You would have to acknowledge that they run the risk of screwing themselves by pushing it too far (a greater setback than the [b]wealthier [/b]owners would experience.) Because of this, the owners have more leverage in the negotiations, and therefore, the players union is the group that I would say is being more greedy, stupid, and wreckless.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

lifetimeskin
Give it up. Football is an entertainment bussiness, like movie stars or musicians we pay to see the talent. Certain star individuals are responsible for generating Billions of dollars in sales of Jerseys, shoes, movies, pictures and TV rights.
Stars like Tom Cruise, Angelina Jolie, U2 or Rolling Stones get paid MILLIONS just to show up and do their thing because people want to see THEM.
Same goes for NFL football, I watch football to see the talented players. They are the show. I do not pay to see Dan Snyder or anyother owner. The owners realize that and that is why they pay big salaries to keep certain players.

The players might seems greedy but they just want to be fairly compensted for money they have a big hand in generating. If you, lifetimeskin, singlehandley made your boss $5 million in revenue because of your work and your boss sells your picture and jersey number and makes another $5million, do you feel you should be getting a portion of the $10 million? You better.
Microsoft is a terrible comparison because Bill Gates and a handful of bright computer geeks were the firsts to patent an operating system (windows) that revolutionized the computer world. Bill Gates generated this income by producing and patenting Windows, not some average Joe that works for him. See the difference?

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

I think the union is being the most stupid, and the owners the most greedy. The point of the CBA (from the union's perspective) isn't to protect the top-paid athletes. The goal is to protect the sub-median athletes. For example, the 3rd round rookies making the league minimum, or the vets making the vet-minimum. The CBA protects things like retirement accounts and health benefits.

I wouldn't focus on the average salary - the mean salary is the more important figure. I think it's around $700-$800k. It's still a lot, even if you take into account the ~5 year average NFL career (over $100k/year). However, it isn't that much given the lifestyle these guys try to live.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=dan_snyder69]:bs:Ok, so Saden you think you know more about money than country people because you live in Seattle, and I'm assuming you work in the financial sector. You really have no basis to say that country people know nothing about money. You don't know my financial status, for all you know, I might know a little bit more about big money than you.

I agree with you that players have the right to try and maximize their salaries, as employees. You would have to acknowledge that they run the risk of screwing themselves by pushing it too far (a greater setback than the [b]wealthier [/b]owners would experience.) Because of this, the owners have more leverage in the negotiations, and therefore, the players union is the group that I would say is being more greedy, stupid, and wreckless.[/QUOTE]

I know country folk, and while country folk care about paying their rent and bills like everyone else there is a difference between country folk and non-county folk. The big difference being the fact that they think 500K for a house is a lot. They don't care what kind of house it is or where it is located. The truth is once you get beyond a certain monetary amount country folks will be overwhelmed. They can't grasp the value of money in relation to the value of property, the cost of goods and lifestyle. Most of the current players are country folks who have worked hard to earn their keep. Some players have grasped the value of money while others are still country and are spending it as if it's monopoly money.

I don't know your financial status nor do I care. I will say this though, one's speech on money matters can hint at the financial status. My family has gone from very rich to dirt poor to middle class. I know the value of money and what matters is making enough money to live the life you want. All I am saying is that no one has the right to call someone else greedy for trying to negotiate for better wages.

As for who has the upper hand, well the NFL players of course. If they didn't they wouldn't be getting the bigger percentage of the revenue right now.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

saden i agree everyone has the right to maximize their earnings.where we disagree is that the players hold the upper hand.while they are considered to be the product,5 years from now the whole product line changes.meaning me and you and everyone else here will still be cheering for whomever is donning the burgendy and gold,not arrington or anyone else.in 1982 when the scabs played 3 games,did you still want the skins to win?of course you did.because of the length of a normal nfl career is so short,the players are trying to squeeze every penny they can out of the owners.in most normal circles,this definitly could be construed as greed.those players,like any other employee,have the right to look for employment elsewhere,but we all know the nfl is the goose that keeps laying the golden age.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

There wouldn't be players if there wasn't the game.

The game should always be viewed in higher reguard than any player ever to play the game. Everyone is making plenty of money...

I am afraid that Snyder is probably involved in this owners sharing profits problems. I can't blame him as a business moves, but we're talking the NFL and this non agreement could cost the NFL most of their loyal fans, but makes it more profitable. Profitable for the short term. NFL will turn into MLB or XFL within 5 years if these peeps on both sides don't realize what they're messing with!

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]
Microsoft is a terrible comparison because Bill Gates and a handful of bright computer geeks were the firsts to patent an operating system (windows) that revolutionized the computer world. Bill Gates generated this income by producing and patenting Windows, not some average Joe that works for him. See the difference?[/QUOTE]


actually, they sold DOS to ibm for $2million and THEN went out and bought it for $50,000 from some guy that programmed it himself in his basement.

windows and apple both ripped off windowed interfaces and inventions (like the mouse) from PARC labs (owned by xerox) who's board didn't think that the research and development would ever be useful.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=saden1]I know country folk, and while country folk care about paying their rent and bills like everyone else there is a difference between country folk and non-county folk. The big difference being the fact that they think 500K for a house is a lot. They don't care what kind of house it is or where it is located. The truth is once you get beyond a certain monetary amount country folks will be overwhelmed. They can't grasp the value of money in relation to the value of property, the cost of goods and lifestyle. Most of the current players are country folks who have worked hard to earn their keep. Some players have grasped the value of money while others are still country and are spending it as if it's monopoly money.
[/QUOTE]

that's not a sweeping and derogatory generalization by any means...

maybe we can get bac on topic without pointlessly insulting each other?

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=Luxorreb]There wouldn't be players if there wasn't the game.

The game should always be viewed in higher reguard than any player ever to play the game. Everyone is making plenty of money...

I am afraid that Snyder is probably involved in this owners sharing profits problems. I can't blame him as a business moves, but we're talking the NFL and this non agreement could cost the NFL most of their loyal fans, but makes it more profitable. Profitable for the short term. NFL will turn into MLB or XFL within 5 years if these peeps on both sides don't realize what they're messing with![/QUOTE]

it won't turn into the XFL ;) the 80+mill a year will continue to be shared, the sharing just won't be expanded. some teams might go clippers and have a 10-15mill payroll each year and pocket the rest, but the nfl has survived without a cap before... it could turn into MLB, but the bad teams would be able to be pretty decent (talent wise) and still be profitable if the owners choose.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

that guy,ive been thinking about this angle.to try and keep the league semi competitive,why not try a minimum cap,saying each team has to spend at least x amount of dollars according to the tv contract.that way the bidwells and some of the other cheap owners have to at least have some quality players on the roster.do you think this would work?

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]that guy,ive been thinking about this angle.to try and keep the league semi competitive,why not try a minimum cap,saying each team has to spend at least x amount of dollars according to the tv contract.that way the bidwells and some of the other cheap owners have to at least have some quality players on the roster.do you think this would work?[/QUOTE]

i don't think the cheapo's would agree to a min cap unless there was also a max cap.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

just heard on espn that they are close to signing a deal today or in the next couple of days. something with the owners changed over night and which may allow the deal to get done. they may push back the deadline again to get everything done. but gene upshaw said that he is very optimistic that they'll get it done. which is very good news.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

I think it is a mistake to view either the players or the owners as a monolithic group.

Teams like MIN, SEA, AZ & CIN have very different interests, needs and pressures from those like WAS, DAL, HOU, PHI. Then there are teams like PIT, CLE, NYG, KCC who face entirely different issues.

The same is true among players. Just looking at the WR position, what is good for someone like Reggie Wayne is different from James Thrash needs which is different from Antwon Randel El would like.

Is it really greedy for people to look out for their own interests? Is it fair to call an owner greedy for not being willing to buy into a deal that puts his franchise into the red. Just like attacking a player for being upset at a deal (or lack of a deal) that will take millions out of his pocket doesn't seem very balanced.

But I will go as far as to say there has been some real stupidity here. Especially on the part of Upshaw. He is not being reasonable and is overreaching and I don't find his public statements to be real honest. The position he is taking is going to hurt far more players than it helps at 12:01 A.M.

BTW, the uncapped year will be a total boondoggle for both the players and the Redskins -- not the bonanza most people are counting on for both.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]lifetimeskin
Give it up. Football is an entertainment bussiness, like movie stars or musicians we pay to see the talent. Certain star individuals are responsible for generating Billions of dollars in sales of Jerseys, shoes, movies, pictures and TV rights.
Stars like Tom Cruise, Angelina Jolie, U2 or Rolling Stones get paid MILLIONS just to show up and do their thing because people want to see THEM.
Same goes for NFL football, I watch football to see the talented players. They are the show. I do not pay to see Dan Snyder or anyother owner. The owners realize that and that is why they pay big salaries to keep certain players.

[/QUOTE]




lifetimeskinsfan is dead on the money, your off base on this one defensewins ( just my opinion )

i could care less you is in a movie, if the movie looks to be good i'll go see it, if it looks to be bad i wont go see it. i could care less who "stars" in it.

football is the same, i'll go see or watch on tv, every redskins game regardless of the players. i watch football because i love it not because i want to see sean taylor or clinton portis.


football players are way over paid as it is.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=skin4Life28]just heard on espn that they are close to signing a deal today or in the next couple of days. something with the owners changed over night and which may allow the deal to get done. they may push back the deadline again to get everything done. but gene upshaw said that he is very optimistic that they'll get it done. which is very good news.[/QUOTE]

In an e-mail to the Washington Post, Gene Upshaw said the two sides were "now in the area where we will get a deal. I think it may be there. It comes down to a few final points."

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2355190[/url]

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

screw it, nuke the deal... let's try armaggedon for a while ;)

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=RiggoRules]I think it is a mistake to view either the players or the owners as a monolithic group.

Teams like MIN, SEA, AZ & CIN have very different interests, needs and pressures from those like WAS, DAL, HOU, PHI. Then there are teams like PIT, CLE, NYG, KCC who face entirely different issues.

The same is true among players. Just looking at the WR position, what is good for someone like Reggie Wayne is different from James Thrash needs which is different from Antwon Randel El would like.

Is it really greedy for people to look out for their own interests? Is it fair to call an owner greedy for not being willing to buy into a deal that puts his franchise into the red. Just like attacking a player for being upset at a deal (or lack of a deal) that will take millions out of his pocket doesn't seem very balanced.

But I will go as far as to say there has been some real stupidity here. Especially on the part of Upshaw. He is not being reasonable and is overreaching and I don't find his public statements to be real honest. The position he is taking is going to hurt far more players than it helps at 12:01 A.M.

BTW, the uncapped year will be a total boondoggle for both the players and the Redskins -- not the bonanza most people are counting on for both.[/QUOTE]


That's probably the best post I've read so far on the issue. I totally agree. The players, owners, and union officials all have different interests, they are all rich, and they are all trying to do what is in their own best interests. I don't blame any one of them for beeing "greedy" and they all are - just like the rest of us.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]lifetimeskinsfan is dead on the money, your off base on this one defensewins ( just my opinion )

i could care less you is in a movie, if the movie looks to be good i'll go see it, if it looks to be bad i wont go see it. i could care less who "stars" in it.

football is the same, i'll go see or watch on tv, every redskins game regardless of the players. i watch football because i love it not because i want to see sean taylor or clinton portis.


football players are way over paid as it is.[/QUOTE]

For everyperson like you there are 20 people that will go see a movie just because their favorite star or director is in it. I never said I agreed with it but that is the way people are. People will see a Ron Howard or Stephen Speilberg directed movie just because they directed it. Plain and simple that is what drives up their demand and thus their salaries. You are usually going to have bigger revenues if you attach a certain amount of name recognition and star quality. It is all about money. I am not saying the other way will not work, on occasion a movie with no stars will do very well, but that is not as common.
I agree with you that in a perfect world athletes, movie stars and musicians should not getting more money than say a doctor that saves lives everyday. But the fact is the 4 members of U2 (for example) will generate more revenue than than any 4 doctors. It is sad but true.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

the original stars had no stars (lauched HF), and i think ET as well (lauched DB). donnie darko didn't either (lauched JG). good movies make stars ;)

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Right now the labor dispute isn't based on the players being greedy. Rather, the owners are fighting amongst themselves as to 1) how to define gross revenues, and 2) how much "cash over cap" should be allowed. Thus the fight is between the super-rich owners and their even richer counterparts.

In any event, I don't have the slightest sympathy for any party that is even remotely involved. The owners are the richest of them all and while they put up the dough to buy the franchise, they don't sweat or shed blood on Sundays. The players are extremely well paid.[/QUOTE]

I think you are some what wrong!! Yea the owns have the the cash over cap thing but asking 60 percent of the pie is to much!!! I dont' care about the sweat thing because we all do that each day of the week! Many of us would love 60 percent of the pie as well! PA is taking them down a road they can't win!!!

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=RiggoRules]I think it is a mistake to view either the players or the owners as a monolithic group.

Teams like MIN, SEA, AZ & CIN have very different interests, needs and pressures from those like WAS, DAL, HOU, PHI. Then there are teams like PIT, CLE, NYG, KCC who face entirely different issues.

The same is true among players. Just looking at the WR position, what is good for someone like Reggie Wayne is different from James Thrash needs which is different from Antwon Randel El would like.

Is it really greedy for people to look out for their own interests? Is it fair to call an owner greedy for not being willing to buy into a deal that puts his franchise into the red. Just like attacking a player for being upset at a deal (or lack of a deal) that will take millions out of his pocket doesn't seem very balanced.

But I will go as far as to say there has been some real stupidity here. Especially on the part of Upshaw. He is not being reasonable and is overreaching and I don't find his public statements to be real honest. The position he is taking is going to hurt far more players than it helps at 12:01 A.M.

BTW, the uncapped year will be a total boondoggle for both the players and the Redskins -- not the bonanza most people are counting on for both.[/QUOTE]

:towel: :towel: :towel: Very nicely put my friend!!! :food-smil :food-smil

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I think you are some what wrong!! Yea the owns have the the cash over cap thing but asking 60 percent of the pie is to much!!! I dont' care about the sweat thing because we all do that each day of the week! Many of us would love 60 percent of the pie as well! PA is taking them down a road they can't win!!![/QUOTE]

Okay, so instead of siding with the millionaires, you're siding with the billionaires? Sorry if I don't cry about the owners or players not being able to afford a solid-gold gulfstream.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]For everyperson like you there are 20 people that will go see a movie just because their favorite star or director is in it. I never said I agreed with it but that is the way people are. People will see a Ron Howard or Stephen Speilberg directed movie just because they directed it. Plain and simple that is what drives up their demand and thus their salaries. You are usually going to have bigger revenues if you attach a certain amount of name recognition and star quality. It is all about money. I am not saying the other way will not work, on occasion a movie with no stars will do very well, but that is not as common.
I agree with you that in a perfect world athletes, movie stars and musicians should not getting more money than say a doctor that saves lives everyday. But the fact is the 4 members of U2 (for example) will generate more revenue than than any 4 doctors. It is sad but true.[/QUOTE]



fair enough but do you really think football fans will stop watching their favorite teams just because their teams cut a few "stars" ? i don't think they will, i know i won't.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Right now the labor dispute isn't based on the players being greedy. Rather, the owners are fighting amongst themselves as to 1) how to define gross revenues, and 2) how much "cash over cap" should be allowed. Thus the fight is between the super-rich owners and their even richer counterparts.

In any event, I don't have the slightest sympathy for any party that is even remotely involved. The owners are the richest of them all and while they put up the dough to buy the franchise, they don't sweat or shed blood on Sundays. The players are extremely well paid.[/QUOTE]
Jagshamash!

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

The Owners and others have untill midnight to get a deal done but nfl teams have to make their cuts by 6pm. That would mean teams would have to cut players without knowing the results of the labor talks yet. Doesnt make any sense to me.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]fair enough but do you really think football fans will stop watching their favorite teams just because their teams cut a few "stars" ? i don't think they will, i know i won't.[/QUOTE]

the patriots make a habit out of it.

lawyer milloy, ty law, and this year, possibly mcginest and vinetari. They haven't lost a lot of fan interest over it though. brady's the only one that matters... and he gives money back... he could have 3 times his salary but said no thanks, so i doubt it'd ever be economical to ditch him.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=bigm29]The Owners and others have untill midnight to get a deal done but nfl teams have to make their cuts by 6pm. That would mean teams would have to cut players without knowing the results of the labor talks yet. Doesnt make any sense to me.[/QUOTE]

40 minutes to cuts or an extension of the deadline. The rumor is 1 to 3 days.

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I think you are some what wrong!! Yea the owns have the the cash over cap thing but asking 60 percent of the pie is to much!!! I dont' care about the sweat thing because we all do that each day of the week! Many of us would love 60 percent of the pie as well! PA is taking them down a road they can't win!!![/QUOTE]

you see people? you see?!!....it all comes back to pie :biggthump

Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]fair enough but do you really think football fans will stop watching their favorite teams just because their teams cut a few "stars" ? i don't think they will, i know i won't.[/QUOTE]

The majority (large masses) of NFL fans are not loyal fans like you and I, most are really fair weather fans.
The Colts are the perfect example. Right before the Colts got Manning, Edgerrin and Harrison nobody gave a rat ass about the colts. Their attendance was horrible and they were never on TV. They did not have a probowl player for years. NOw they have the stars and have been to the playoffs for a few years, they sell out and now the city wants to build them a stadium just to keep them. Oh, how things have changed for them.