Should we have gone after Givens?
 

Hey, I was thinking that David Givens might have been a better fit than the recievers we just got. Ok, I understand that they are "big play" guys, but I think I would rather have a guy who is more consistent. Am I the only one who thinks this?

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

We chose to got after Randel-El so hard because he is a proven special teamer.

Lloyd was a target due to his leaping abilities.

I'm sure Givens was # 3 on our list though.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

Actually, I said a few days ago I'd rather get Givens off of Free Agency than have to spend picks on Lloyd......so I'm with you.
However, now that we have Lloyd and R.El., I've embraced them both as new Skins. After proving they have an eye for WRs (see Moss last year), I'm not about to question the coaching staff now. I guess there was either something about Givens they didn't like or something about Lloyd they loved.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

Not that it matters now, but I would have preferred Givens if it didn't mean we had to part with draft picks to get him.

Can we please have a draft with all of our picks intact?

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

no we also still have patten, furia, and cooley who are more than willing to do the dirty work. This offense is gonna give opposing defensive minds migraines trying to stop them.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Not that it matters now, but I would have preferred Givens if it didn't mean we had to part with draft picks to get him.

Can we please have a draft with all of our picks intact?[/QUOTE]

Hah a draft in which the Skins have all their picks...you must be silly

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Not that it matters now, but I would have preferred Givens if it didn't mean we had to part with draft picks to get him.

Can we please have a draft with all of our picks intact?[/QUOTE]

Why?

This current front office seems to do much better in evaluating free agents than they do rookies.

At least we're getting proven talent.

Yeah I know, this way of doing things costs alot more, but Snyder and company seem to have the cap massage down to a science, so I say stick with what they do best.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

I liked Givens too. I think part of it might being Gibbs being snake bitten by Pat's recievers after signing Patten. Maybe they are products of a great system that wont work out elsewhere.

Also Randle El and Lloyd would seem to have much bigger upsides that Givens who is solid but might be as good right now as he is ever going to be.

We went that route last season with Moss, great upside, limited porduction in the NFL and with other questions about him(size toughness, can he be a #1)...How did that work out?

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

Lloyd would be alot cheaper than Givens, and I think another important factor is Lloyd's potential. We all know he can jump and catch, but I guess the coaches see the potential of him hitting the next level, and it would be a bit cheaper. It is basically like gambling. We could spend more money for a good expected turnout(Givens), or we could spend a little less and have the chance for an amazing outcome(Lloyd).

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

I like the WR pickups. We should be a lot better late in the season, if the QB situation is stable.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why?

This current front office seems to do much better in evaluating free agents than they do rookies.

At least we're getting proven talent.

Yeah I know, this way of doing things costs alot more, but Snyder and company seem to have the cap massage down to a science, so I say stick with what they do best.[/QUOTE]

I to would love to keep our draft picks but I have to tell you we haven't been that great at getting draft picks to turn in to NFL players! Also you spend a lot of money waiting for a player to take over a spot on your team and in most cases it takes a few years. Many times rookies hold out missing camp time and you never know if a great college player can deal with the NFL demands! Just look at the four free agents we picked up Monday. All seem to be of good character and sound NFL players! A college kid you just never know if what he did in college can be done on a NFL field. Just look at the top two rounds of a draft and see just how many do become great NFL player and how many are goen in four or less years! I think you can build a team with free agents,trades and the draft. The up coming draft we need to hit on a few of the pick and not just the 2nd rounder. But we are in a spot now we can pick the best player not pick for need!!! :headbange

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=skinsttw]I like the WR pickups. We should be a lot better late in the season, if the QB situation is stable.[/QUOTE]

I would have liked David Givens just as much as Lloyd, so I'd probably take back the trade too. But I'm with PSU, I am willing to give the Skins the benefit of the doubt after hitting it so big with Santana Moss. I'll wait and see before I criticize the move.

Anyway, the reason I quoted this post is because I think it touches upon the key for the Skins in 2006: QB. The moves are great and gives us the ammo we need to take the next step. To me, the next step is getting to the Championship game, and these acquisitions might be enough to do it. But if we're going to the Superbowl, we need Brunell or Campbell to step up. Brunell was good last year, I'd take a QB rating of 86 any day of the week. But to make the Super Bowl I think we need a 90 or 95. Hopefully these WRs give the QBs all they need to get to that level. And hopefully they come through.

As with any offense, you can look at last year's performance in Tampa and wonder how much of it was Brunell's fault and how much of it was the lack of threat at WR, and how much of it was the injury to Randy Thomas. But one things for sure, the WR problem is taken care of now. We should find out real quick if our QBs are good enough.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

should we have gone after givens? no. im fine with the recievers we brought in

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why?

This current front office seems to do much better in evaluating free agents than they do rookies.

At least we're getting proven talent.

Yeah I know, this way of doing things costs alot more, but Snyder and company seem to have the cap massage down to a science, so I say stick with what they do best.[/QUOTE]

agreed. it's worked well for us. trade picks for guys that have proven themselves for a few years. at least allow other teams deal with the adjustment to the NFL.

seems like it's getting rarer and rarer for a guy to stick with one team for an entire career anyhow...

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

definitely, Givens is a proven reciever & team player by all accounts. Despite what Gibbs said about 'checking' sources on Loyd, he has had attitude problems. Maybe Loyd has an upside that the staff saw & didn't see in Givens. I think Givens is a solid blocker though, something that the posse all did well & is often the difference in a play going 20 yds. or to the house.
Plus, Givens just signed w/an $8 mil bonus, less than our guys.
Nonetheless, if Loyd can keep his cool here & make big plays, he's only 24 & may prove to be a relative bargain w/time.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

Givens just signed w/Titans. 5 yrs./$24 mil.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

does anyone have any idea what kind of contract we will sign lloyd to??? I mean his best season was last year and that was only 730 yards and like 4 or 5 td's. That doesnt sound like he ought to get a $30 million dollar contract like the other guys...but i mean with the increase in the CBA and the fact that we gave up picks to get him...he might be in a position to bargain with us...

What do you guys think...what type of contract will we sign lloyd to?? I would say that 6 years/20 million with a 6 million signing bonus would be fair.

What are your takes?

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

we dont even know if we will sign him to a contract, if we did it shouldnt be a big one, although we did give randle el a fairly large contract for worse recieving numbers...

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=NFLeurope]does anyone have any idea what kind of contract we will sign lloyd to??? I mean his best season was last year and that was only 730 yards and like 4 or 5 td's. That doesnt sound like he ought to get a $30 million dollar contract like the other guys...but i mean with the increase in the CBA and the fact that we gave up picks to get him...he might be in a position to bargain with us...

What do you guys think...what type of contract will we sign lloyd to?? I would say that 6 years/20 million with a 6 million signing bonus would be fair.

What are your takes?[/QUOTE]

I would guess in the neighborhood of 6-7 years, $25M, $8M bonus.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I would guess in the neighborhood of 6-7 years, $25M, $8M bonus.[/QUOTE]

Really? I'd be happy with that but wouldn't that be less than what we gave to Randle El? I have a feeling Lloyd is going to cost us over $30 mill.......of course, it's all speculation at this point.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

I don't see us giving Lloyd more than Randle El but who knows. Probably something in the same ballpark.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why?

This current front office seems to do much better in evaluating free agents than they do rookies.

At least we're getting proven talent.

Yeah I know, this way of doing things costs alot more, but Snyder and company seem to have the cap massage down to a science, so I say stick with what they do best.[/QUOTE]

Well, if one playoff appearance in 6 seasons represents the "best" this front office has to offer, and if what you say is true -- that since they can't evaluate rookies, they simply leave it to other teams to do all the scouting work, that doesn't exactly speak well for Snyderatto & Co.

Unfortunately, you're right on about the draft picks. Even the "can't miss" 1st and 2nd rounders like Patrick Ramsey and Taylor Jacobs are wonderful examples of this front office's incompetence in drafting.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=hooskins]Lloyd would be alot cheaper than Givens, and I think another important factor is Lloyd's potential. We all know he can jump and catch, but I guess the coaches see the potential of him hitting the next level, and it would be a bit cheaper. It is basically like gambling. We could spend more money for a good expected turnout(Givens), or we could spend a little less and have the chance for an amazing outcome(Lloyd).[/QUOTE]

lloyd will NOT be cheaper than givens, but his talent/potential is much greater. he put up 700+ yards with alex smith, givens pu up 700+ with tom brady.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

the WP & other sources (espn maybe) reported that they expect the deal to be similar to randle el's w/about $10 mil signing bonus.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

I would have liked Lloyd or Givens but, not Randle El.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

lloyd is going to get another 10mill/30mill deal, he's better than El.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Well, if one playoff appearance in 6 seasons represents the "best" this front office has to offer, and if what you say is true -- that since they can't evaluate rookies, they simply leave it to other teams to do all the scouting work, that doesn't exactly speak well for Snyderatto & Co.

Unfortunately, you're right on about the draft picks. Even the "can't miss" 1st and 2nd rounders like Patrick Ramsey and Taylor Jacobs are wonderful examples of this front office's incompetence in drafting.[/QUOTE]

I'm counting since Gibbs came back, since that is the current front office setup.

Pre-Gibbs, who cares. It's not relevant.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Well, if one playoff appearance in 6 seasons represents the "best" this front office has to offer, and if what you say is true -- that since they can't evaluate rookies, they simply leave it to other teams to do all the scouting work, that doesn't exactly speak well for Snyderatto & Co.

Unfortunately, you're right on about the draft picks. Even the "can't miss" 1st and 2nd rounders like Patrick Ramsey and Taylor Jacobs are wonderful examples of this front office's incompetence in drafting.[/QUOTE]

What about Cooley and Dockery, Rock Cartwright, Smoot, Pierce, etc...

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]What about Cooley and Dockery, Rock Cartwright, Smoot, Pierce, etc...[/QUOTE]

Our front office of recent has had more bangs than busts. We're fixing some old school mistakes, but no-one is flawless. We made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. I just sense a more concrete system is in place. There is no Steve Spurrier running the show... everyone is convinced that this is working. The nay-sayers really don't have much to say... we're a superbowl contender for the first time in 14 some odd years.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12]definitely, Givens is a proven reciever & team player by all accounts. Despite what Gibbs said about 'checking' sources on Loyd, he has had attitude problems. Maybe Loyd has an upside that the staff saw & didn't see in Givens. I think Givens is a solid blocker though, something that the posse all did well & is often the difference in a play going 20 yds. or to the house.
Plus, Givens just signed w/an $8 mil bonus, less than our guys.
Nonetheless, if Loyd can keep his cool here & make big plays, he's only 24 & may prove to be a relative bargain w/time.[/QUOTE]

I thought Lloyd adressed his problems with the 49ers well in his interview on Redskins.comtv. He said that he was just being himself and that teammates didnt appriciate him being upbeat despite the fact that they were loosing, he kept saying I play best when Im having fun. He also pointed out that Portis is able to be his goofy self on the Redskins and so he felt he could come to washington and be himself. It'll be fun to watch him this season, on and off the feild, and I doubt we'll have any trouble from him.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=EXoffender]I would have liked Lloyd or Givens but, not Randle El.[/QUOTE]

I heard someone say of Randle El that he is a perfect fit for the redskins because of his versatility, he is almost reminicent of Brian Mitchell. I cant wait to see him tear up teams from everywhere on the field, you'll take that back with his first returned kick or his first touchdown pass to moss or cooley.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

The anti-Randle El folks puzzle me a bit. Is it just because of his contract? Because I don't see what's not to love about the guy. He's such a dangerous player because of his versatility. Saunders will probably have a field day devising ways to get him the ball, and then there's his outstanding special teams play. We basically got 3-4 players in one package with him.

Kordell Stewart might be the original 'Slash', but Randle El has taken the 'Slash' role to an entirely different level.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]What about Cooley and Dockery, Rock Cartwright, Smoot, Pierce, etc...[/QUOTE]

Cooley was Gibbs' pick, if Snyderatto had anything to do with his selection, I'll give them credit for that. Dockery was a ho-hum pick, solid, but unspectacular -- and now he's refusing to sign his tender offer. Cartwright could be a diamond in the rough, but he's still the third stringer.

Smoot and Pierce were Schottenheimer's selections when he made all personnel decisions.

Re: Should we have gone after Givens?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Cooley was Gibbs' pick, if Snyderatto had anything to do with his selection, I'll give them credit for that. Dockery was a ho-hum pick, solid, but unspectacular -- and now he's refusing to sign his tender offer. Cartwright could be a diamond in the rough, but he's still the third stringer.

Smoot and Pierce were Schottenheimer's selections when he made all personnel decisions.[/QUOTE]

he hass till november, he's in no rush ;) he might have been asked to wait till they make space as well.